This was the laptop that was taking so long to boot up (~20 minutes).
I'll do another thread on why it was taking so long to boot up.

<https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/uiiez3086ili1myaucp55/Drive.jpg?rlkey=ji0soyglau9x9ija9xrwv00m3&dl=0>

<https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/bxs3kc56chc4ixc1hhsn6/Drive2.jpg?rlkey=w5nd00f4d7olya6y6v0cqeviv&dl=0>

Laptop came with Windows 8 from Asus, which is what I believe created
the 20.01 GB "Restore" partition.

It has been a while, but I believe I created partition 6 (D:) because
they were not paying attention to where they were placing their working
files, and for some stupid reason I thought this would get them in the
habit of knowing where their files were located. As it only had 150 MB
in it, obviously that didn't work.

About 1.5 years back, I updated this laptop to Windows 10. The Drive2
link above shows partition 5 also as a "Recovery" partition. Both
partitions 2 and 5 seem to have enough space to be able to do the
ReAgent KB5034441 update, though one is before the C drive and one is
between the C and D drives. But it would not install the update and fails.

My question is how did partition 5 get in there in-between the two
drives? I'm wondering why diskpart claims it is a recovery partition,
though it also calls partition 7 a recovery partition when disk
management calls it a "Restore" partition. What the heck is partition 5?

--
Stand With Israel!
NOTE: If you use Google Groups I don't see you,
unless you're whitelisted and that's doubtful.

sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> wrote:
> This was the laptop that was taking so long to boot up (~20 minutes).
> I'll do another thread on why it was taking so long to boot up.
>
> <https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/uiiez3086ili1myaucp55/Drive.jpg?rlkey=ji0soyglau9x9ija9xrwv00m3&dl=0>
>
> <https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/bxs3kc56chc4ixc1hhsn6/Drive2.jpg?rlkey=w5nd00f4d7olya6y6v0cqeviv&dl=0>
>
> Laptop came with Windows 8 from Asus, which is what I believe created
> the 20.01 GB "Restore" partition.

Yes, 'Restore', not 'Recovery'. The 'Restore' partition (7) probably
contains the files needed to restore the system to 'as shipped from
factory' condition, i.e. not just plain Windows 8, but also any and all
'added-value' Asus stuff.

It looks similar to my HP laptop which also came with Windows 8 and
has a 14.94GB partition, also at the end of the disk, which, in order to
add to the confusion, is called 'RECOVERY'. :-)

Sorry, can't help with the rest, but I'm sure Winston can explain the
mysterious 'Recovery' partition 5.

> It has been a while, but I believe I created partition 6 (D:) because
> they were not paying attention to where they were placing their working
> files, and for some stupid reason I thought this would get them in the
> habit of knowing where their files were located. As it only had 150 MB
> in it, obviously that didn't work.
>
> About 1.5 years back, I updated this laptop to Windows 10. The Drive2
> link above shows partition 5 also as a "Recovery" partition. Both
> partitions 2 and 5 seem to have enough space to be able to do the
> ReAgent KB5034441 update, though one is before the C drive and one is
> between the C and D drives. But it would not install the update and fails.
>
> My question is how did partition 5 get in there in-between the two
> drives? I'm wondering why diskpart claims it is a recovery partition,
> though it also calls partition 7 a recovery partition when disk
> management calls it a "Restore" partition. What the heck is partition 5?

On 2/6/2024 11:41 AM, sticks wrote:
> This was the laptop that was taking so long to boot up (~20 minutes). I'll do another thread on why it was taking so long to boot up.
>
> <https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/uiiez3086ili1myaucp55/Drive.jpg?rlkey=ji0soyglau9x9ija9xrwv00m3&dl=0>
>
> <https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/bxs3kc56chc4ixc1hhsn6/Drive2.jpg?rlkey=w5nd00f4d7olya6y6v0cqeviv&dl=0>
>
> Laptop came with Windows 8 from Asus, which is what I believe created the 20.01 GB "Restore" partition.
>
> It has been a while, but I believe I created partition 6 (D:) because they were not paying attention to where they were placing their working files, and for some stupid reason I thought this would get them in the habit of knowing where their files were located.  As it only had 150 MB in it, obviously that didn't work.
>
> About 1.5 years back, I updated this laptop to Windows 10.  The Drive2 link above shows partition 5 also as a "Recovery" partition.  Both partitions 2 and 5 seem to have enough space to be able to do the ReAgent KB5034441 update, though one is before the C drive and one is between the C and D drives. But it would not install the update and fails.
>
> My question is how did partition 5 get in there in-between the two drives?  I'm wondering why diskpart claims it is a recovery partition, though it also calls partition 7 a recovery partition when disk management calls it a "Restore" partition.  What the heck is partition 5?
>
>
>

1 2 3 4 5 6 7
-------------------------+---------+-----+---------+---------+-----+---------------------------+
ESP System Partition |System |MSR |C: |System |D: |Restore (Could be W7) |
(Microsoft folder, BCD) |Reserved |NoFS |Partition|Reserved |Data |12GB |
|WinRE.wim|128MB| |WinRE.wim| |Traditional OS restoration |
-------------------------+---------+-----+---------+---------+-----+---------------------------+

reagentc /info # in an Administrator window

The partition number in reagentc /info, should point to the one
on the right of the C: partition. "Partition 5" is the real one.
"Partition 2" is no longer in usage. Partition 5 was caused by
an OS Upgrade. Partition 2 was invented, before they knew what
they were doing.

Any time that metadata uses partition numbers, it is not a
good idea to be deleting partitions "to the left" of the
affected partition. At least, unless you know how
to repair the damage. 5 is using partition number for reference,
so do not delete 2 (unless you are ready to do reagentc repair procedure).

We don't know what MSR is for. If it changed size, then we
would know. I have not seen it behave in a dynamic fashion.
There is no file system on MicroSoftReserved partition. It is
a partition type with a partition GUID assignment. Could it be
crypto ? Is it garbage ? Dunno.

Many things in OSes, use BLKIDs, or they use metadata which
does not depend on the partition number, and this makes
them more resistant to damage. But even in the best designed
OSes, there will always be that "one evil feature" that
continues to cling to a partition number :-) And that is the
feature that breaks when you are too ambitious while cleaning house.

If you, in diskpart.exe, "assign letter=K" to a partition,
that allows hidden partitions to be listed. The alternative,
is to use TestDisk, but that is an acquired taste as a tool.
Note that assigning a letter in this way, is not honored by
all the software. It has limited scope.

diskpart
list disks
select disk 0
list partitions
select partition 5
assign letter=K
exit

K:
dir
cd directoryname
dir
... # Descend and look around.

[Reboot, to clear the K: assignment and be shed of it.]

There is nothing special about K: . It's just my favorite
non-colliding drive letter :-)

GPT partitions, have two "long number strings". One
is a label of sorts (like enumeration or a counting number or a BLKID).
The other is the "partition type". In legacy, 0x07 is NTFS
partition type. Well, they have a long series of digits
to represent that in Microsoft GPT-land. Linux has a shorthand.
0x0700 means "I am that long GUID that Microsoft uses, for NTFS".
The number 0x0700 is not physically realized on the media. It
is a "comfort food" for the user, so they don't have to type shit :-)

There are 64KB tables at both ends of the disk. The table has room
for 128 entries. Only the first seven slots in the table, are
used in your two tables. The rest of the table is filled with zeros.
(This can make it difficult to figure out where the table ends.)
With a hex editor, you can now go look for it :-)

If you elevate this to Administrator, it can be used as a disk editor.
That's how I have viewed the tables in this example. At the moment,
I just view the contents as "garbage", as I'm too lazy to become
familiar with editing the stuff. I suspect the table could be
protected with checksums, which is why you can't be careless in there.

https://mh-nexus.de/en/hxd/

Some tools do not clear the tables properly. You cannot "dd" a GPT
between two different sized disks. Why ? The secondary table
is placed at the wrong offset if you do that. The secondary table
is supposed to "always be right down near the end". So if it was
"this far" from the end of one drive, you would move it, with dd,
to be "this far" from the end of your newer/bigger drive. If you
use Macrium Backup/Restore, it knows the rules for handing
the secondary table.

Paul

sticks wrote on 2/6/24 9:41 AM:
> This was the laptop that was taking so long to boot up (~20 minutes).
> I'll do another thread on why it was taking so long to boot up.
>
> <https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/uiiez3086ili1myaucp55/Drive.jpg?rlkey=ji0soyglau9x9ija9xrwv00m3&dl=0>
>
>
> <https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/bxs3kc56chc4ixc1hhsn6/Drive2.jpg?rlkey=w5nd00f4d7olya6y6v0cqeviv&dl=0>
>
>
> Laptop came with Windows 8 from Asus, which is what I believe created the
> 20.01 GB "Restore" partition.
>
> It has been a while, but I believe I created partition 6 (D:) because
> they were not paying attention to where they were placing their working
> files, and for some stupid reason I thought this would get them in the
> habit of knowing where their files were located.  As it only had 150 MB
> in it, obviously that didn't work.
>
> About 1.5 years back, I updated this laptop to Windows 10.  The Drive2
> link above shows partition 5 also as a "Recovery" partition.  Both
> partitions 2 and 5 seem to have enough space to be able to do the ReAgent
> KB5034441 update, though one is before the C drive and one is between the
> C and D drives. But it would not install the update and fails.
>
> My question is how did partition 5 get in there in-between the two
> drives?  I'm wondering why diskpart claims it is a recovery partition,
> though it also calls partition 7 a recovery partition when disk
> management calls it a "Restore" partition.  What the heck is partition 5?
>
>
>

If this is the same laptop mentioned in the 'Revert to Windows 8'
post/thread...please try to avoiding creating another thread for the same
device and most likely the future direction(your intent) for the same
device. i.e. don't start another thread about this device, use **this
exact same thread'.

Parititions:
Typical for an older device that was 8.x, the later upgraded to Win10.
Partition 2
- the original Windows Recovery Partition created by the OEM
- incorrectly placed and contrary to GPT partition guidelines but
normal for way too many OEM's.
Partition 5
- Windows 10 created Recovery partition(i.e. created when it was
upgraded to Win10 or later in the correct location(after the Windows
partition and by shrinking the Windows partition to make space and place
the partition after the Windows partition)
Partition 7
- OEM special partition for reinstall to factory condition(to Windows 8)
=> may no longer be valid to do so since upgrading to Win10 if
dependent on Asus Utilities, Asus media, original active Win8 recovery
partition.

For you to do and report back(in this same thread):
Open a Powershell admin command prompt and type the following then press
the enter key.
reagentc /info

Report everything you see. If desired take a snapshot, upload the
snapshot to imaging hosting site then provide the link.

One final question:
Do you have Windows 8.1 media?
a. if you have a Windows Media Creation Tool created Windows 8.1 bootable
media(USB), it might come in handy
b. if you do not have (a), then you should create Windows 8.1 media from
the ISO available here:
<https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows8ISO>
=> Once you download the ISO, use a 3rd party tool to create a bootable
USB media
Note: Ensure the USB thumbdrive is 8GB or more in total capacity
c. Optionally, if you have an 8.1 version of the Windows Media Creation
Tool, you can use that to create an 8.1 bootable USB stick.

In the meantime, refresh you memory on how to boot from a USB thumb drive
on the device. For Win8, the process would be the same as booting a Win10
USB thumbdrive.

--
....w¡ñ§±¤ñ

Paul wrote on 2/6/24 4:04 PM:
> We don't know what MSR is for. If it changed size, then we
> would know. I have not seen it behave in a dynamic fashion.
> There is no file system on MicroSoftReserved partition. It is
> a partition type with a partition GUID assignment. Could it be
> crypto ? Is it garbage ? Dunno.

"A Microsoft Reserved Partition (MSR) is a partition of a data storage
device, which is created to reserve a portion of disk space for possible
subsequent use by a Windows operating system installed on a separate
partition."

Supposedly, also comes into play for remapping damaged sectors.
- if it did, never saw or realized it did so. To the best of my
recollection, the last disk I owned/used that needed remapping damaged
sectors was a Connor(Seagate) disk circa 1995/1996 installed by HP on the
as-shipped device.

--
....w¡ñ§±¤ñ

On 2/6/2024 5:04 PM, Paul wrote:
> On 2/6/2024 11:41 AM, sticks wrote:
>> This was the laptop that was taking so long to boot up (~20 minutes). I'll do another thread on why it was taking so long to boot up.
>>
>> <https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/uiiez3086ili1myaucp55/Drive.jpg?rlkey=ji0soyglau9x9ija9xrwv00m3&dl=0>
>>
>> <https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/bxs3kc56chc4ixc1hhsn6/Drive2.jpg?rlkey=w5nd00f4d7olya6y6v0cqeviv&dl=0>
>>
>> Laptop came with Windows 8 from Asus, which is what I believe created the 20.01 GB "Restore" partition.
>>
>> It has been a while, but I believe I created partition 6 (D:) because they were not paying attention to where they were placing their working files, and for some stupid reason I thought this would get them in the habit of knowing where their files were located.  As it only had 150 MB in it, obviously that didn't work.
>>
>> About 1.5 years back, I updated this laptop to Windows 10.  The Drive2 link above shows partition 5 also as a "Recovery" partition.  Both partitions 2 and 5 seem to have enough space to be able to do the ReAgent KB5034441 update, though one is before the C drive and one is between the C and D drives. But it would not install the update and fails.
>>
>> My question is how did partition 5 get in there in-between the two drives?  I'm wondering why diskpart claims it is a recovery partition, though it also calls partition 7 a recovery partition when disk management calls it a "Restore" partition.  What the heck is partition 5?
>>
>>
>>
>
> 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
> -------------------------+---------+-----+---------+---------+-----+---------------------------+
> ESP System Partition |System |MSR |C: |System |D: |Restore (Could be W7) |
> (Microsoft folder, BCD) |Reserved |NoFS |Partition|Reserved |Data |12GB |
> |WinRE.wim|128MB| |WinRE.wim| |Traditional OS restoration |
> -------------------------+---------+-----+---------+---------+-----+---------------------------+
>
> reagentc /info # in an Administrator window
>
> The partition number in reagentc /info, should point to the one
> on the right of the C: partition. "Partition 5" is the real one.
> "Partition 2" is no longer in usage. Partition 5 was caused by
> an OS Upgrade. Partition 2 was invented, before they knew what
> they were doing.

Yes, partition 5 was where reagentc /info pointed.

> Any time that metadata uses partition numbers, it is not a
> good idea to be deleting partitions "to the left" of the
> affected partition. At least, unless you know how
> to repair the damage. 5 is using partition number for reference,
> so do not delete 2 (unless you are ready to do reagentc repair procedure).

I have done this repair procedure many times now, so I ultimately
decided to delete the partitions 2, 5 and 7. I then made partition 4
big, and shrunk it by 1500 MB and created the WinRE partition in the
right spot and reagentc /info showed it was all there and enabled.
Looked like this when done.

<https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/5njsciy0k0w7cyxml1x9m/Drive3.jpg?rlkey=xy5ph92r59cdezpn628jwoc7z&dl=0>

I haven't actually tried yet to see on this system if the recovery agent
actually works. I probably should do that since I still cannot get this
to do the 4441 update for some reason. There is no BitLocker in use on
this machine, so I really don't care if it gets updated if the recovery
environment still works. I also know I can just reimage if it gets
screwed up. It will just try and fail every time it does updates.
Is there a way to tell MS Update not to try this one again?

---snip---

> If you, in diskpart.exe, "assign letter=K" to a partition,
> that allows hidden partitions to be listed. The alternative,
> is to use TestDisk, but that is an acquired taste as a tool.
> Note that assigning a letter in this way, is not honored by
> all the software. It has limited scope.
>
> diskpart
> list disks
> select disk 0
> list partitions
> select partition 5
> assign letter=K
> exit
>
> K:
> dir
> cd directoryname
> dir
> ... # Descend and look around.
>
> [Reboot, to clear the K: assignment and be shed of it.]
>

I think you're saying that if I do above and assign partition 2 a letter
it will show up here too?

<https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/yb44qp98u0keqooocu36q/Drive4.jpg?rlkey=olvo7fzvxwvbyjf5l4arakvc0&dl=0>

---snip---

As usual, very interesting stuff for me. Thanks!

--
Stand With Israel!
NOTE: If you use Google Groups I don't see you,
unless you're whitelisted and that's doubtful.

On 2/6/2024 6:02 PM, ...w¡ñ§±¤ñ wrote:
> sticks wrote on 2/6/24 9:41 AM:
>> This was the laptop that was taking so long to boot up (~20 minutes).
>> I'll do another thread on why it was taking so long to boot up.
>>
>> <https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/uiiez3086ili1myaucp55/Drive.jpg?rlkey=ji0soyglau9x9ija9xrwv00m3&dl=0>
>>
>> <https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/bxs3kc56chc4ixc1hhsn6/Drive2.jpg?rlkey=w5nd00f4d7olya6y6v0cqeviv&dl=0>
>>
>> Laptop came with Windows 8 from Asus, which is what I believe created
>> the 20.01 GB "Restore" partition.
>>
>> It has been a while, but I believe I created partition 6 (D:) because
>> they were not paying attention to where they were placing their
>> working files, and for some stupid reason I thought this would get
>> them in the habit of knowing where their files were located.  As it
>> only had 150 MB in it, obviously that didn't work.
>>
>> About 1.5 years back, I updated this laptop to Windows 10.  The Drive2
>> link above shows partition 5 also as a "Recovery" partition.  Both
>> partitions 2 and 5 seem to have enough space to be able to do the
>> ReAgent KB5034441 update, though one is before the C drive and one is
>> between the C and D drives. But it would not install the update and
>> fails.
>>
>> My question is how did partition 5 get in there in-between the two
>> drives?  I'm wondering why diskpart claims it is a recovery partition,
>> though it also calls partition 7 a recovery partition when disk
>> management calls it a "Restore" partition.  What the heck is partition 5?
>>
>>
>>
>
> If this is the same laptop mentioned in the 'Revert to Windows 8'
> post/thread...please try to avoiding creating another thread for the
> same device and most likely the future direction(your intent) for the
> same device.  i.e. don't start another thread about this device, use
> **this exact same thread'.

That is a different thread and the OP is Knuttle.

---snip---

> Partition 5
>  - Windows 10 created Recovery partition(i.e. created when it was
> upgraded to Win10 or later in the correct location(after the Windows
> partition and by shrinking the Windows partition to make space and place
> the partition after the Windows partition)
> Partition 7

---snip---

I answered much of this in my response to Paul, but you have educated me
now on my question as to how partition 5 got in-between the two drives.
It's funny how the brain works. I knew that is exactly what MS does, as
I have done it over a dozen times myself. For some reason, I assumed it
would go after both of the C and D drives, and it didn't occur to me the
process would ignore D and do what it is supposed to and place it
directly after C.

I'm going to try and see if I am missing something like this in my
thinking since it still won't update 4441 even though it is enabled and
is positioned after C now like this

<https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/5njsciy0k0w7cyxml1x9m/Drive3.jpg?rlkey=xy5ph92r59cdezpn628jwoc7z&dl=0>

---snip---

--
Stand With Israel!
NOTE: If you use Google Groups I don't see you,
unless you're whitelisted and that's doubtful.

sticks wrote on 2/7/24 9:19 AM:
> On 2/6/2024 6:02 PM, ...w¡ñ§±¤ñ wrote:
>>
>> If this is the same laptop mentioned in the 'Revert to Windows 8'
>> post/thread...please try to avoiding creating another thread for the
>> same device and most likely the future direction(your intent) for the
>> same device.  i.e. don't start another thread about this device, use
>> **this exact same thread'.
>
> That is a different thread and the OP is Knuttle.

My error. Too many message windows open at the same time. Sorry for the
inconvenience.
>
> ---snip---
>
>> Partition 5
>>   - Windows 10 created Recovery partition(i.e. created when it was
>> upgraded to Win10 or later in the correct location(after the Windows
>> partition and by shrinking the Windows partition to make space and
>> place the partition after the Windows partition)
>> Partition 7
>
> ---snip---
>
>
> I answered much of this in my response to Paul, but you have educated me
> now on my question as to how partition 5 got in-between the two drives.
> It's funny how the brain works.  I knew that is exactly what MS does, as
> I have done it over a dozen times myself.  For some reason, I assumed it
> would go after both of the C and D drives, and it didn't occur to me the
> process would ignore D and do what it is supposed to and place it
> directly after C.

When WinRE(the recovery partition) needs to be modified, the algorithm
looks for its location and if enabled.
- If found after C:(Windows partition) it then determines if it needs to
be enlarged. If so, then space is carved out of C:(shrinking/reducing its
size), using that free space to enlarge WinRE from its existing left
side. Once done, WinRE is updated.
- If not found after C:, similar occurs. C: is shrunk, and a whole new
WinRE partition is created with all necessary WinRE files.

>
> I'm going to try and see if I am missing something like this in my
> thinking since it still won't update 4441 even though it is enabled and
> is positioned after C now like this
>
> <https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/5njsciy0k0w7cyxml1x9m/Drive3.jpg?rlkey=xy5ph92r59cdezpn628jwoc7z&dl=0>

Fyi...WinRE partition being enabled doesn't necessarily guarantee KB
5034441(and its SafeOS update KB5034232) will be installed.

The status of the o/s version, build and the version/build of the
SSU(Servicing Stack Update) is also a controlling factor.

What is the current installed version and build of Windows 10?

The partition order shown in your pic is the correct order.
- post re-partitioning, did you re-run reagentc /info to determine the
recovery partition status(partition number and enabled)?

--
....w¡ñ§±¤ñ

On 2/7/2024 11:57 AM, ...w¡ñ§±¤ñ wrote:
>
>>
>> I'm going to try and see if I am missing something like this in my
>> thinking since it still won't update 4441 even though it is enabled
>> and is positioned after C now like this
>>
>> <https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/5njsciy0k0w7cyxml1x9m/Drive3.jpg?rlkey=xy5ph92r59cdezpn628jwoc7z&dl=0>
>
> Fyi...WinRE partition being enabled doesn't necessarily guarantee KB
> 5034441(and its SafeOS update KB5034232) will be installed.

Meaning it won't try, or it can still fail? Because it definitely keeps
trying to install it.

>
> The status of the o/s version, build and the version/build of the
> SSU(Servicing Stack Update) is also a controlling factor.
>
> What is the current installed version and build of Windows 10?

Windows 10 Home Edition
Version 22H2
Build 19045.3996

I tried finding the installed servicing stack build, but that doesn't
seem so simple. Is there a specific KB for this build I should check to
see if it is installed?

>
> The partition order shown in your pic is the correct order.
>  - post re-partitioning, did you re-run reagentc /info to determine the
> recovery partition status(partition number and enabled)?

Yes, it is enabled. I am going to try /boottore and see if I can get in
there.

--
Stand With Israel!
NOTE: If you use Google Groups I don't see you,
unless you're whitelisted and that's doubtful.

sticks wrote on 2/7/24 1:58 PM:
> On 2/7/2024 11:57 AM, ...w¡ñ§±¤ñ wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I'm going to try and see if I am missing something like this in my
>>> thinking since it still won't update 4441 even though it is enabled
>>> and is positioned after C now like this
>>>
>>> <https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/5njsciy0k0w7cyxml1x9m/Drive3.jpg?rlkey=xy5ph92r59cdezpn628jwoc7z&dl=0>
>>>
>>
>> Fyi...WinRE partition being enabled doesn't necessarily guarantee KB
>> 5034441(and its SafeOS update KB5034232) will be installed.
>
> Meaning it won't try, or it can still fail?  Because it definitely keeps
> trying to install it.
An update can't fail, if not attempted.

When an update is attempted, two possible outcomes - success of failure.
- the latter does not exempt future attempts.
i.e. an indication that if offered(and based on the device's condition),
it should be installed)

>
>>
>> The status of the o/s version, build and the version/build of the
>> SSU(Servicing Stack Update) is also a controlling factor.
>>
>> What is the current installed version and build of Windows 10?
>
> Windows 10 Home Edition
> Version 22H2
> Build 19045.3996
>
> I tried finding the installed servicing stack build, but that doesn't
> seem so simple.  Is there a specific KB for this build I should check to
> see if it is installed?

Version/Build(22H2 19045.3996) indicates the Jan. 23, 2024 KB5034203
Preview update was installed which also installs its included SSU 19045.3989
>
>>
>> The partition order shown in your pic is the correct order.
>>   - post re-partitioning, did you re-run reagentc /info to determine
>> the recovery partition status(partition number and enabled)?
>
> Yes, it is enabled.  I am going to try /boottore and see if I can get in
> there.
>
>
For what purpose ?...'getting in there' won't provide any information
on success or failure of 5034441(and its included SafeOS update KB5034232)

--
....w¡ñ§±¤ñ

On 2/7/2024 11:06 AM, sticks wrote:
> On 2/6/2024 5:04 PM, Paul wrote:
>> On 2/6/2024 11:41 AM, sticks wrote:
>>> This was the laptop that was taking so long to boot up (~20 minutes). I'll do another thread on why it was taking so long to boot up.
>>>
>>> <https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/uiiez3086ili1myaucp55/Drive.jpg?rlkey=ji0soyglau9x9ija9xrwv00m3&dl=0>
>>>
>>> <https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/bxs3kc56chc4ixc1hhsn6/Drive2.jpg?rlkey=w5nd00f4d7olya6y6v0cqeviv&dl=0>
>>>
>>> Laptop came with Windows 8 from Asus, which is what I believe created the 20.01 GB "Restore" partition.
>>>
>>> It has been a while, but I believe I created partition 6 (D:) because they were not paying attention to where they were placing their working files, and for some stupid reason I thought this would get them in the habit of knowing where their files were located.  As it only had 150 MB in it, obviously that didn't work.
>>>
>>> About 1.5 years back, I updated this laptop to Windows 10.  The Drive2 link above shows partition 5 also as a "Recovery" partition.  Both partitions 2 and 5 seem to have enough space to be able to do the ReAgent KB5034441 update, though one is before the C drive and one is between the C and D drives. But it would not install the update and fails.
>>>
>>> My question is how did partition 5 get in there in-between the two drives?  I'm wondering why diskpart claims it is a recovery partition, though it also calls partition 7 a recovery partition when disk management calls it a "Restore" partition.  What the heck is partition 5?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>             1                 2       3       4         5        6      7
>> -------------------------+---------+-----+---------+---------+-----+---------------------------+
>> ESP System Partition     |System   |MSR  |C:       |System   |D:   |Restore  (Could be W7)     |
>> (Microsoft folder, BCD)  |Reserved |NoFS |Partition|Reserved |Data |12GB                       |
>>                           |WinRE.wim|128MB|         |WinRE.wim|     |Traditional OS restoration |
>> -------------------------+---------+-----+---------+---------+-----+---------------------------+
>>
>> reagentc /info                    # in an Administrator window
>>
>> The partition number in reagentc /info, should point to the one
>> on the right of the C: partition. "Partition 5" is the real one.
>> "Partition 2" is no longer in usage. Partition 5 was caused by
>> an OS Upgrade. Partition 2 was invented, before they knew what
>> they were doing.
>
> Yes, partition 5 was where reagentc /info pointed.
>
>> Any time that metadata uses partition numbers, it is not a
>> good idea to be deleting partitions "to the left" of the
>> affected partition. At least, unless you know how
>> to repair the damage. 5 is using partition number for reference,
>> so do not delete 2 (unless you are ready to do reagentc repair procedure).
>
> I have done this repair procedure many times now, so I ultimately decided to delete the partitions 2, 5 and 7.  I then made partition 4 big, and shrunk it by 1500 MB and created the WinRE partition in the right spot and reagentc /info showed it was all there and enabled. Looked like this when done.
>
> <https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/5njsciy0k0w7cyxml1x9m/Drive3.jpg?rlkey=xy5ph92r59cdezpn628jwoc7z&dl=0>
>
> I haven't actually tried yet to see on this system if the recovery agent actually works.  I probably should do that since I still cannot get this to do the 4441 update for some reason.  There is no BitLocker in use on this machine, so I really don't care if it gets updated if the recovery environment still works.  I also know I can just reimage if it gets screwed up. It will just try and fail every time it does updates.
> Is there a way to tell MS Update not to try this one again?
>
> ---snip---
>
>> If you, in diskpart.exe, "assign letter=K" to a partition,
>> that allows hidden partitions to be listed. The alternative,
>> is to use TestDisk, but that is an acquired taste as a tool.
>> Note that assigning a letter in this way, is not honored by
>> all the software. It has limited scope.
>>
>>     diskpart
>>     list disks
>>     select disk 0
>>     list partitions
>>     select partition 5
>>     assign letter=K
>>     exit
>>
>>     K:
>>     dir
>>     cd directoryname
>>     dir
>>     ...                # Descend and look around.
>>
>>     [Reboot, to clear the K: assignment and be shed of it.]
>>
>
>
> I think you're saying that if I do above and assign partition 2 a letter it will show up here too?
>
> <https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/yb44qp98u0keqooocu36q/Drive4.jpg?rlkey=olvo7fzvxwvbyjf5l4arakvc0&dl=0>
>
> ---snip---
>
> As usual, very interesting stuff for me.  Thanks!
>
>

If you assign drive letter K to a partition,
it does not show in Disk Management. It might not
be accounted for in MountVol. It would only show in
Disk Management if the partition was a regular NTFS one.

But at least in a terminal, you should be able
to do

K:
dir
cd directoryname
dir

and look around a bit if you want.

If the hidden partition is unformatted, then it's not going
to mount this way. Only if there is a file system inside the
hidden item, does this work. And there could still be
permission issues.

Since FAT32 doesn't have that sort of permission issue,
you should be able to skate around in an ESP for a look.

Paul

On 2/7/2024 7:14 PM, Paul wrote:
> On 2/7/2024 11:06 AM, sticks wrote:

> If you assign drive letter K to a partition,
> it does not show in Disk Management. It might not
> be accounted for in MountVol. It would only show in
> Disk Management if the partition was a regular NTFS one.
>
> But at least in a terminal, you should be able
> to do
>
> K:
> dir
> cd directoryname
> dir
>
> and look around a bit if you want.
>
> If the hidden partition is unformatted, then it's not going
> to mount this way. Only if there is a file system inside the
> hidden item, does this work. And there could still be
> permission issues.
>
> Since FAT32 doesn't have that sort of permission issue,
> you should be able to skate around in an ESP for a look.
>
> Paul

OK, this was more of a 'I want to learn' question than an 'I need to do
it' one. I know it's a relatively small MS folder, so I'll just leave
it alone and keep from screwing anything else up for now.

Thanks for the info!

--
Stand With Israel!
NOTE: If you use Google Groups I don't see you,
unless you're whitelisted and that's doubtful.

On 2/7/2024 5:16 PM, ...w¡ñ§±¤ñ wrote:
> sticks wrote on 2/7/24 1:58 PM:
>> On 2/7/2024 11:57 AM, ...w¡ñ§±¤ñ wrote:

>>>> I'm going to try and see if I am missing something like this in my
>>>> thinking since it still won't update 4441 even though it is enabled
>>>> and is positioned after C now like this

>>>> <https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/5njsciy0k0w7cyxml1x9m/Drive3.jpg?rlkey=xy5ph92r59cdezpn628jwoc7z&dl=0>

>>> Fyi...WinRE partition being enabled doesn't necessarily guarantee KB
>>> 5034441(and its SafeOS update KB5034232) will be installed.

>> Meaning it won't try, or it can still fail?  Because it definitely
>> keeps trying to install it.

> An update can't fail, if not attempted.
>
> When an update is attempted, two possible outcomes - success of failure.
>  - the latter does not exempt future attempts.
> i.e. an indication that if offered(and based on the device's condition),
> it should be installed)

I thought you perhaps meant it might not be offered and install
attempted. For example, from what I've read 4441 is supposed to add
something associated with it's ability to navigate BitLocker encrypted
systems. Since Windows 10 Home edition does not have BitLocker, is it
still being offered because though it doesn't have BitLocker, there is
another option to encrypt data?

>>> The status of the o/s version, build and the version/build of the
>>> SSU(Servicing Stack Update) is also a controlling factor.
>>>
>>> What is the current installed version and build of Windows 10?
>>
>> Windows 10 Home Edition
>> Version 22H2
>> Build 19045.3996
>>
>> I tried finding the installed servicing stack build, but that doesn't
>> seem so simple.  Is there a specific KB for this build I should check
>> to see if it is installed?
>
> Version/Build(22H2 19045.3996) indicates the Jan. 23, 2024 KB5034203
> Preview update was installed which also installs its included SSU
> 19045.3989
>>
>>>
>>> The partition order shown in your pic is the correct order.
>>>   - post re-partitioning, did you re-run reagentc /info to determine
>>> the recovery partition status(partition number and enabled)?
>>
>> Yes, it is enabled.  I am going to try /boottore and see if I can get
>> in there.
>>
>>
>  For what purpose ?...'getting in there' won't provide any information
> on success or failure of 5034441(and its included SafeOS update KB5034232)

I wanted to check for two reasons.

First, simply because I enjoy the learning chances people like you,
Paul, Vanguard, Andy, Charles and so many others are gracious enough in
providing. I always find it fascinating.

Second, because since this 4441 update provides Bitlocker functionality
in some way, and this computer doesn't use either encryption or
Bitlocker, I wanted to know if it still could be accessed to use the
recovery tools if needed. I checked using reagentc /boottore and yes it
did allow me to go in and look around. It all seems to be there. Only
problem I had was on a couple of the actual recovery option tiles, once
clicked I was told I needed an administrator account to sign in to do
anything. There is only one account on this laptop, and it is an
administrator account, though it is set up as without a MS account. If
I recall they call that an off line account. So I guess in a way it is
not functional until I can figure out what that means.

--
Stand With Israel!
NOTE: If you use Google Groups I don't see you,
unless you're whitelisted and that's doubtful.

On 2/7/2024 10:07 PM, sticks wrote:
> On 2/7/2024 5:16 PM, ...w¡ñ§±¤ñ wrote:
>> sticks wrote on 2/7/24 1:58 PM:
>>> On 2/7/2024 11:57 AM, ...w¡ñ§±¤ñ wrote:
>
>>>>> I'm going to try and see if I am missing something like this in my thinking since it still won't update 4441 even though it is enabled and is positioned after C now like this
>
>>>>> <https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/5njsciy0k0w7cyxml1x9m/Drive3.jpg?rlkey=xy5ph92r59cdezpn628jwoc7z&dl=0>
>
>>>> Fyi...WinRE partition being enabled doesn't necessarily guarantee KB 5034441(and its SafeOS update KB5034232) will be installed.
>
>>> Meaning it won't try, or it can still fail?  Because it definitely keeps trying to install it.
>
>> An update can't fail, if not attempted.
>>
>> When an update is attempted, two possible outcomes - success of failure.
>>   - the latter does not exempt future attempts.
>> i.e. an indication that if offered(and based on the device's condition), it should be installed)
>
> I thought you perhaps meant it might not be offered and install attempted.  For example, from what I've read 4441 is supposed to add something associated with it's ability to navigate BitLocker encrypted systems.  Since Windows 10 Home edition does not have BitLocker, is it still being offered because though it doesn't have BitLocker, there is another option to encrypt data?
>
>
>>>> The status of the o/s version, build and the version/build of the SSU(Servicing Stack Update) is also a controlling factor.
>>>>
>>>> What is the current installed version and build of Windows 10?
>>>
>>> Windows 10 Home Edition
>>> Version 22H2
>>> Build 19045.3996
>>>
>>> I tried finding the installed servicing stack build, but that doesn't seem so simple.  Is there a specific KB for this build I should check to see if it is installed?
>>
>> Version/Build(22H2 19045.3996) indicates the Jan. 23, 2024 KB5034203 Preview update was installed which also installs its included SSU 19045.3989
>>>
>>>>
>>>> The partition order shown in your pic is the correct order.
>>>>   - post re-partitioning, did you re-run reagentc /info to determine the recovery partition status(partition number and enabled)?
>>>
>>> Yes, it is enabled.  I am going to try /boottore and see if I can get in there.
>>>
>>>
>>   For what purpose ?...'getting in there' won't provide any information on success or failure of 5034441(and its included SafeOS update KB5034232)
>
> I wanted to check for two reasons.
>
> First, simply because I enjoy the learning chances people like you, Paul, Vanguard, Andy, Charles and so many others are gracious enough in providing.  I always find it fascinating.
>
> Second, because since this 4441 update provides Bitlocker functionality in some way, and this computer doesn't use either encryption or Bitlocker, I wanted to know if it still could be accessed to use the recovery tools if needed.  I checked using reagentc /boottore and yes it did allow me to go in and look around.  It all seems to be there.  Only problem I had was on a couple of the actual recovery option tiles, once clicked I was told I needed an administrator account to sign in to do anything.  There is only one account on this laptop, and it is an administrator account, though it is set up as without a MS account.  If I recall they call that an off line account.  So I guess in a way it is not functional until I can figure out what that means.
>

Using Diskpart

list disk
select disk 0
list partition
select partition 3 # 1.46GB, should be NTFS
detail partition # Is it formatted ? Check. You can format it from diskpart.

format quick fs=ntfs label="Recovery" # The label of course, is a joke, and we can't see it.
detail partition # Doing that makes the script easier to read.

exit

If it is actually NTFS, you can

assign letter=K

after the formatting step. It should
be empty of course. A dir will tell you
what's in K. Sometimes, you do a second

dir # Display visible files
dir /ah # Display hidden files

It already says "Recovery Partition", which means something
other than "regular partition" has been assigned to it.
The GPT table entry is correct, but it might not be formatted NTFS.

The refusal could also happen, if any step in the manufacture of the WinRE.wim
has failed.

On W11Home right now, this has stuff in it, but I don't know
exactly why this has staging in it.

C:\$WinREAgent\Scratch\Mount\Windows\System32

Paul

sticks wrote on 2/7/24 8:07 PM:
> On 2/7/2024 5:16 PM, ...w¡ñ§±¤ñ wrote:
>> sticks wrote on 2/7/24 1:58 PM:
>>> On 2/7/2024 11:57 AM, ...w¡ñ§±¤ñ wrote:
>
>>>>> I'm going to try and see if I am missing something like this in my
>>>>> thinking since it still won't update 4441 even though it is enabled
>>>>> and is positioned after C now like this
>
>>>>> <https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/5njsciy0k0w7cyxml1x9m/Drive3.jpg?rlkey=xy5ph92r59cdezpn628jwoc7z&dl=0>
>>>>>
>
>>>> Fyi...WinRE partition being enabled doesn't necessarily guarantee KB
>>>> 5034441(and its SafeOS update KB5034232) will be installed.
>
>>> Meaning it won't try, or it can still fail?  Because it definitely
>>> keeps trying to install it.
>
>> An update can't fail, if not attempted.
>>
>> When an update is attempted, two possible outcomes - success of failure.
>>   - the latter does not exempt future attempts.
>> i.e. an indication that if offered(and based on the device's
>> condition), it should be installed)
>
> I thought you perhaps meant it might not be offered and install
> attempted.  For example, from what I've read 4441 is supposed to add
> something associated with it's ability to navigate BitLocker encrypted
> systems.  Since Windows 10 Home edition does not have BitLocker, is it
> still being offered because though it doesn't have BitLocker, there is
> another option to encrypt data?
>
>
>>>> The status of the o/s version, build and the version/build of the
>>>> SSU(Servicing Stack Update) is also a controlling factor.
>>>>
>>>> What is the current installed version and build of Windows 10?
>>>
>>> Windows 10 Home Edition
>>> Version 22H2
>>> Build 19045.3996
>>>
>>> I tried finding the installed servicing stack build, but that doesn't
>>> seem so simple.  Is there a specific KB for this build I should check
>>> to see if it is installed?
>>
>> Version/Build(22H2 19045.3996) indicates the Jan. 23, 2024 KB5034203
>> Preview update was installed which also installs its included SSU
>> 19045.3989
>>>
>>>>
>>>> The partition order shown in your pic is the correct order.
>>>>   - post re-partitioning, did you re-run reagentc /info to determine
>>>> the recovery partition status(partition number and enabled)?
>>>
>>> Yes, it is enabled.  I am going to try /boottore and see if I can get
>>> in there.
>>>
>>>
>>   For what purpose ?...'getting in there' won't provide any information
>> on success or failure of 5034441(and its included SafeOS update KB5034232)
>
> I wanted to check for two reasons.
>
> First, simply because I enjoy the learning chances people like you, Paul,
> Vanguard, Andy, Charles and so many others are gracious enough in
> providing.  I always find it fascinating.

Automatically booting on startup to the Recovery Environment would
function(as long as the partition and files are not damaged) with or
without installation of KB 034441(and its SafeOS update KB5034232)

There is a Powershell command that can be used to determine the Service
Pack Build #, and last modified date of the Recovery partition's
winre.wim file

DISM /Get-ImageInfo
/ImageFile:\\?\GLOBALROOT\device\harddisk1\partition4\Recovery\WindowsRE\winre.wim
/index:1

Note: the above is an example...variables that may need to be changed if
different for your system are
harddisk1
parition4
/index:1

When you run reagentc /info the first two terms are shown in the Windows
RE Location field result
- thus based on what you see, if necessary modify the above DISM
command for harddisk# and partition#

/index:1 is the usual location for all devices.
- don't change it

>
> Second, because since this 4441 update provides Bitlocker functionality
> in some way, and this computer doesn't use either encryption or
> Bitlocker, I wanted to know if it still could be accessed to use the
> recovery tools if needed.  I checked using reagentc /boottore and yes it
> did allow me to go in and look around.  It all seems to be there.  Only
> problem I had was on a couple of the actual recovery option tiles, once
> clicked I was told I needed an administrator account to sign in to do
> anything.  There is only one account on this laptop, and it is an
> administrator account, though it is set up as without a MS account.  If I
> recall they call that an off line account.  So I guess in a way it is not
> functional until I can figure out what that means.
>
>
Bitlocker not present on Home is not a variable in whether or not the
Recovery partition is functional
- which you proved.

The 4441/4232 combined update is meant to be applied with or without
Bitlocker and for both Home, Pro, etc. editions.
- The SafeOS update(4232) is should be seen/interpreted as a necessary
compatibility update(alleviate a potential problem) that installs prior
to '4441' which installs and updates the Recovery partition.

One could attempt to install the correct bit version of the very small
size stand-alone SafeOS '4232' update, restart, then let Windows Update
attempt to install '4441'
<https://www.catalog.update.microsoft.com/Search.aspx?q=KB5034232>

--
....w¡ñ§±¤ñ

sticks wrote on 2/7/24 6:42 PM:
>
>
> OK, this was more of a 'I want to learn' question than an 'I need to do
> it' one.  I know it's a relatively small MS folder, so I'll just leave it
> alone and keep from screwing anything else up for now.
>
> Thanks for the info!
>
>
>
+1

Granted, Paul's comments are valid and could be very handy if there's a
need to snoop around in the Recovery partition.

If you are using Macrium Reflect or similar for making an image of the
Windows 10 GPT partitions, one could just explore the Recovery partition
and look at the date of the Winre.wim file...the rest of the
files(version/build) found in that partition won't provide more or
additional significant information relative to reasons for '4441/4232'
failing to install.
...but one can look at a few(two) files in Windows\System32 that get
changed when the Recovery partition is updated.
winload.exe version/build and date
winload.efi version/build and date

Then compare those with what you found for Service Pack Build in the
earlier noted DISM /Get-ImageInfo command

Normally the build number of these 2 files will be identical to the
installed Windows version(seen in winver) and will be greater than or
equal to the Service Pack build reported in /Get-ImageInfo

Note: My Surface 3 running Win10 Pro(Home in this case would not be
different, its all Win10)after updating with 4441 shows
- the two winload files as 10.0.19041.3996
- Get-ImageInfo shows the Service Pack Build as 3920

Sidenote:
To get that Surface 3 to update(failed 4 times on '4441'). I took a
different route(b/c I knew that System Restore points located at the end
of the C:\Windows partition can prevent resizing(shrinking) the Windows
partition inevitably causine '4441' failing.
So..
- I deleted all System Restore Points
- Disabled System Restore for the C: drive(it was not enabled for other
drives either)
- Used Windows Disk Cleanup in admin mode to remove everything it showed
as removable(i.e. - all boxes were checked before running) - took about
15 min on that 8 yr old device(Intel Atom chip and 4 GB RAM, 128 GB disk
storage), and WinRE partition had sufficient free space to handle the
Recovery partition updating).
- Turned off Windows Update option 'Receive updates from other Microsoft
products
- Installed the Jan 9 2024 KB5034275(.NET Cumulative) and KB 5034122 update
- Installed the Jan 23 KB5034203 Cumulative Preview successfully -
19045.3996,
....then successfully installed KB 5034441 (WinRE update which also
applies SafeOS Security update KB5034232), which also updated the
Recovery Partition. Verified by the earlier info(the two winload files
version/build and Get-ImageInfo Service Pack Build.

Other Win10 devices with succesful Recovery Partition update and 4441
update may show different version/buile numbers and/or Service Pack Build
of the Winre.wim file..but still representative or a successful install
of the KB and updating the Recovery partition(resized or not with a
larger usage of total Recovery partition size.

--
....w¡ñ§±¤ñ

On 2/7/2024 9:55 PM, ...w¡ñ§±¤ñ wrote:
>
> Automatically booting on startup to the Recovery Environment would
> function(as long as the partition and files are not damaged) with or
> without installation of KB 034441(and its SafeOS update KB5034232)
>
> There is a Powershell command that can be used to determine the Service
> Pack Build #, and last modified date of the Recovery partition's
> winre.wim file
>
> DISM /Get-ImageInfo
> /ImageFile:\\?\GLOBALROOT\device\harddisk1\partition4\Recovery\WindowsRE\winre.wim /index:1
>
> Note: the above is an example...variables that may need to be changed if
> different for your system are
>  harddisk1
>  parition4
>  /index:1
>
> When you run reagentc /info the first two terms are shown in the Windows
> RE Location field result
>  - thus based on what you see, if necessary modify the above DISM
> command for harddisk# and partition#
>
> /index:1 is the usual location for all devices.
>  - don't change it

I ran this and it looks old (2014), maybe it can tell you something that
is wrong?

<https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/4o12tuqttpcvdgm5nv3a3/Get-ImageInfo.jpg?rlkey=j6grshwae1s7sp5f8xuf47mty&dl=0>

>>
>> Second, because since this 4441 update provides Bitlocker
>> functionality in some way, and this computer doesn't use either
>> encryption or Bitlocker, I wanted to know if it still could be
>> accessed to use the recovery tools if needed.  I checked using
>> reagentc /boottore and yes it did allow me to go in and look around.
>> It all seems to be there.  Only problem I had was on a couple of the
>> actual recovery option tiles, once clicked I was told I needed an
>> administrator account to sign in to do anything.  There is only one
>> account on this laptop, and it is an administrator account, though it
>> is set up as without a MS account.  If I recall they call that an off
>> line account.  So I guess in a way it is not functional until I can
>> figure out what that means.
>>
>>
> Bitlocker not present on Home is not a variable in whether or not the
> Recovery partition is functional
>  - which you proved.
>
> The 4441/4232 combined update is meant to be applied with or without
> Bitlocker and for both Home, Pro, etc. editions.
>  - The SafeOS update(4232) is should be seen/interpreted as a necessary
> compatibility update(alleviate a potential problem) that installs prior
> to '4441' which installs and updates the Recovery partition.
>
> One could attempt to install the correct bit version of the very small
> size stand-alone SafeOS '4232' update, restart, then let Windows Update
> attempt to install '4441'
> <https://www.catalog.update.microsoft.com/Search.aspx?q=KB5034232>

I did find and install this update, restarted, and it still failed.

--
Stand With Israel!
NOTE: If you use Google Groups I don't see you,
unless you're whitelisted and that's doubtful.

On 2/7/2024 11:18 PM, ...w¡ñ§±¤ñ wrote:
> sticks wrote on 2/7/24 6:42 PM:

> If you are using Macrium Reflect or similar for making an image of the
> Windows 10 GPT partitions, one could just explore the Recovery partition
> and look at the date of the Winre.wim file...the rest of the
> files(version/build) found in that partition won't provide more or
> additional significant information relative to reasons for '4441/4232'
> failing to install.
> ..but one can look at a few(two) files in Windows\System32 that get
> changed when the Recovery partition is updated.
> winload.exe version/build and date
> winload.efi version/build and date
> Then compare those with what you found for Service Pack Build in the
> earlier noted DISM /Get-ImageInfo command
>
> Normally the build number of these 2 files will be identical to the
> installed Windows version(seen in winver) and will be greater than or
> equal to the Service Pack build reported in /Get-ImageInfo

My winload.exe version is the same as yours. 10.0.19041.3996
The properties page for the winload.efi file did not have a spot for a
version number.

The dates for the two files also differ from the Get-ImageInfo (2014)
and look like they are probably the date I created the ReAgent
partition. They give a date of 1/31/2024
>
> Note: My Surface 3 running Win10 Pro(Home in this case would not be
> different, its all Win10)after updating with 4441 shows
> - the two winload files as 10.0.19041.3996
> - Get-ImageInfo shows the Service Pack Build as 3920
>
> Sidenote:
>  To get that Surface 3 to update(failed 4 times on '4441').  I took a
> different route(b/c I knew that System Restore points located at the end
> of the C:\Windows partition can prevent resizing(shrinking) the Windows
> partition inevitably causine '4441' failing.

But, I'm assuming with 1500MB in that partition I wouldn't have to do
any of what you've described? Or (I admit I forgot to check if any of
these were already installed) should I go ahead and get the KB's below
and install them manually too?

> So..
> - I deleted all System Restore Points
> - Disabled System Restore for the C: drive(it was not enabled for other
> drives either)
> - Used Windows Disk Cleanup in admin mode to remove everything it showed
> as removable(i.e. - all boxes were checked before running) - took about
> 15 min on that 8 yr old device(Intel Atom chip and 4 GB RAM, 128 GB disk
> storage), and WinRE partition had sufficient free space to handle the
> Recovery partition updating).
> - Turned off Windows Update option 'Receive updates from other Microsoft
> products
> - Installed the Jan 9 2024 KB5034275(.NET Cumulative) and KB 5034122 update
> - Installed the Jan 23 KB5034203 Cumulative Preview successfully -
> 19045.3996,
> ...then successfully installed KB 5034441 (WinRE update which also
> applies SafeOS Security update KB5034232), which also updated the
> Recovery Partition.  Verified by the earlier info(the two winload files
> version/build and Get-ImageInfo Service Pack Build.
>
> Other Win10 devices with succesful Recovery Partition update and 4441
> update may show different version/buile numbers and/or Service Pack
> Build of the Winre.wim file..but still representative or a successful
> install of the KB and updating the Recovery partition(resized or not
> with a larger usage of total Recovery partition size.
>
>

--
Stand With Israel!
NOTE: If you use Google Groups I don't see you,
unless you're whitelisted and that's doubtful.

sticks wrote on 2/8/24 6:56 PM:
> On 2/7/2024 9:55 PM, ...w¡ñ§±¤ñ wrote:
>> DISM /Get-ImageInfo
>> /ImageFile:\\?\GLOBALROOT\device\harddisk1\partition4\Recovery\WindowsRE\winre.wim
>> /index:1
>>
>> Note: the above is an example...variables that may need to be changed
>> if different for your system are
>>   harddisk1
>>   parition4
>>   /index:1
>>
>> When you run reagentc /info the first two terms are shown in the
>> Windows RE Location field result
>>   - thus based on what you see, if necessary modify the above DISM
>> command for harddisk# and partition#
>>
>> /index:1 is the usual location for all devices.
>>   - don't change it
>
> I ran this and it looks old (2014), maybe it can tell you something that
> is wrong?
>
> <https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/4o12tuqttpcvdgm5nv3a3/Get-ImageInfo.jpg?rlkey=j6grshwae1s7sp5f8xuf47mty&dl=0>
>
>
>
Interesting.

Your pic indicates Service Pack Build 16384.
10240.16384 is the official RTM build of the original release of
Windows 10 original released to Insider Ring on July 15 2015 and the
general public on July 29th 2015. Exactly one year later ithe same build
was released/used as the free upgrade version for Windows 7, 8.0 and 8.1
users.

16384 was also the initial Win RE build with those 2012 era 'create and
modify' dates.

We can postulate about all the possible reasons on how WinRE partition
was modified since 2015....originally as part of feature build
updates(semi-annually up up to 21H2, then annually starting with
22H2(fall of 2022). The following year in June 2023 updates to WinRE
partition were included(when required to be updated) in the monthly
Cumulative Updates(for Win10 22H2 and also Win11 22H2
- In Nov. 2023, Win11 23H2 released and included in the WinRE partition
inclusion in monthly updates.

Why your WinRE service pack build number over 8 yrs old could be a
variety of causes.
- never updated with feature updates
- that earlier partition #2 Recovery partition(which iirc you removed
was created at one time in the #5 partition(by Windows, and after the
Windows partition) maybe with the #2 partition bits and never ever updated
=> Updating WinRE partition should have at least happened on #5
multiple times and especially with 21H1, 21H2, and 22H2 and again via
cumulative updates in July 2023, Sept 2023, Dec 2023....and again in Jan
2024.
=> Once your redid the disk(removing #2 the inactive WinRE, and
resized #4(which was #5)...if done properly it would have at least 22H2
bits with a Service Pack build # of 3000 or greater.

Which raises a few reasonable questions.
What did you use to resize Windows and the Recovery Partion?

Did you follow the KB article for resizing WinRE partition?
<https://support.microsoft.com/help/5028997>

Anything else, about this device or past history that's not been provided
in earlier posts?

--
....w¡ñ§±¤ñ

On 2/10/2024 4:32 AM, ...w¡ñ§±¤ñ wrote:
> sticks wrote on 2/8/24 6:56 PM:
>> On 2/7/2024 9:55 PM, ...w¡ñ§±¤ñ wrote:
>>> DISM /Get-ImageInfo
>>> /ImageFile:\\?\GLOBALROOT\device\harddisk1\partition4\Recovery\WindowsRE\winre.wim /index:1
>>>
>>> Note: the above is an example...variables that may need to be changed
>>> if different for your system are
>>>   harddisk1
>>>   parition4
>>>   /index:1
>>>
>>> When you run reagentc /info the first two terms are shown in the
>>> Windows RE Location field result
>>>   - thus based on what you see, if necessary modify the above DISM
>>> command for harddisk# and partition#
>>>
>>> /index:1 is the usual location for all devices.
>>>   - don't change it
>>
>> I ran this and it looks old (2014), maybe it can tell you something
>> that is wrong?
>>
>> <https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/4o12tuqttpcvdgm5nv3a3/Get-ImageInfo.jpg?rlkey=j6grshwae1s7sp5f8xuf47mty&dl=0>
>>
>>
> Interesting.
>
> Your pic indicates Service Pack Build 16384.
>  10240.16384 is the official RTM build of the original release of
> Windows 10 original released to Insider Ring on July 15 2015 and the
> general public on July 29th 2015. Exactly one year later ithe same build
> was released/used as the free upgrade version for Windows 7, 8.0 and 8.1
> users.

This came as a Windows 8.0 which immediately got upgraded to 8.1

> 16384 was also the initial Win RE build with those 2012 era 'create and
> modify' dates.
>
> We can postulate about all the possible reasons on how WinRE partition
> was modified since 2015....originally as part of feature build
> updates(semi-annually up up to 21H2, then annually starting with
> 22H2(fall of 2022).  The following year in June 2023 updates to WinRE
> partition were included(when required to be updated) in the monthly
> Cumulative Updates(for Win10 22H2 and also Win11 22H2
>  - In Nov. 2023, Win11 23H2 released and included in the WinRE
> partition inclusion in monthly updates.
>
> Why your WinRE service pack build number over 8 yrs old could be a
> variety of causes.
>  - never updated with feature updates
>  - that earlier partition #2 Recovery partition(which iirc you removed
> was created at one time in the #5 partition(by Windows, and after the
> Windows partition) maybe with the #2 partition bits and never ever updated
>    => Updating WinRE partition should have at least happened on #5
> multiple times and especially with 21H1, 21H2, and 22H2 and again via
> cumulative updates in July 2023, Sept 2023, Dec 2023....and again in Jan
> 2024.
>    => Once your redid the disk(removing #2 the inactive WinRE, and
> resized #4(which was #5)...if done properly it would have at least 22H2
> bits with a Service Pack build # of 3000 or greater.
>
> Which raises a few reasonable questions.
>  What did you use to resize Windows and the Recovery Partion?
>
> Did you follow the KB article for resizing WinRE partition?
>  <https://support.microsoft.com/help/5028997>

Yes, except I did not use 250MB. I have done this several times now and
made them all a little bigger than that.
> Anything else, about this device or past history that's not been
> provided in earlier posts?

Oh, since it was not mine, I'm sure any number of unique things could
have happened. I doubt they updated with any consistency, but one would
still think eventually it got done.

As this is the only one of the systems I have tried to fix this issue
that has failed, I do find it interesting and if you have other things
you too are interested in having me try I would be available for that.
Otherwise, I could just leave it be since it could be redone with the
good macrium image. I don't find this the best option since I'm not
sure whose hands this will end up in. I'm kind of leaning towards just
format and reinstall the entire thing. I have the original win 8 key,
but would like to just reinstall the Win 10 on it's own. I have to
learn about the digital license stuff and what doing it that way would
require.

But like I said, if there is anything else you would like to know if it
works or not, please ask.

Thanks

sticks

--
Stand With Israel!
NOTE: If you use Google Groups I don't see you,
unless you're whitelisted and that's doubtful.

On 2/10/2024 5:32 AM, ...w¡ñ§±¤ñ wrote:
> sticks wrote on 2/8/24 6:56 PM:
>> On 2/7/2024 9:55 PM, ...w¡ñ§±¤ñ wrote:
>>> DISM /Get-ImageInfo /ImageFile:\\?\GLOBALROOT\device\harddisk1\partition4\Recovery\WindowsRE\winre.wim /index:1
>>>
>>> Note: the above is an example...variables that may need to be changed if different for your system are
>>>   harddisk1
>>>   parition4
>>>   /index:1
>>>
>>> When you run reagentc /info the first two terms are shown in the Windows RE Location field result
>>>   - thus based on what you see, if necessary modify the above DISM command for harddisk# and partition#
>>>
>>> /index:1 is the usual location for all devices.
>>>   - don't change it
>>
>> I ran this and it looks old (2014), maybe it can tell you something that is wrong?
>>
>> <https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/4o12tuqttpcvdgm5nv3a3/Get-ImageInfo.jpg?rlkey=j6grshwae1s7sp5f8xuf47mty&dl=0>
>>
>>
> Interesting.
>
> Your pic indicates Service Pack Build 16384.
>  10240.16384 is the official RTM build of the original release of Windows 10 original released to Insider Ring on July 15 2015 and the general public on July 29th 2015. Exactly one year later ithe same build was released/used as the free upgrade version for Windows 7, 8.0 and 8.1 users.
>
> 16384 was also the initial Win RE build with those 2012 era 'create and modify' dates.
>
> We can postulate about all the possible reasons on how WinRE partition was modified since 2015....originally as part of feature build updates(semi-annually up up to 21H2, then annually starting with 22H2(fall of 2022).  The following year in June 2023 updates to WinRE partition were included(when required to be updated) in the monthly Cumulative Updates(for Win10 22H2 and also Win11 22H2
>  - In Nov. 2023, Win11 23H2 released and included in the WinRE partition inclusion in monthly updates.
>
> Why your WinRE service pack build number over 8 yrs old could be a variety of causes.
>  - never updated with feature updates
>  - that earlier partition #2 Recovery partition(which iirc you removed was created at one time in the #5 partition(by Windows, and after the Windows partition) maybe with the #2 partition bits and never ever updated
>    => Updating WinRE partition should have at least happened on #5 multiple times and especially with 21H1, 21H2, and 22H2 and again via cumulative updates in July 2023, Sept 2023, Dec 2023....and again in Jan 2024.
>    => Once your redid the disk(removing #2 the inactive WinRE, and resized #4(which was #5)...if done properly it would have at least 22H2 bits with a Service Pack build # of 3000 or greater.
>
> Which raises a few reasonable questions.
>  What did you use to resize Windows and the Recovery Partion?
>
> Did you follow the KB article for resizing WinRE partition?
>  <https://support.microsoft.com/help/5028997>
>
> Anything else, about this device or past history that's not been provided in earlier posts?

Doesn't the 6.2.9200 indicate Windows 8.0 2012-10-26 ?

This is a sample from my Win81 (6.3.9600) disk drive, which does not have
a separate partition System Reserved. The file is on the C: partition.
The file size in the DISM report, is the uncompressed size, whereas the
WinRE.wim file itself is 279,000,000 or so.

[Picture]

https://i.postimg.cc/28Q92yH4/WIN81-Win-RE-WIM-sample.gif

Paul

sticks wrote on 2/10/24 8:29 AM:
> On 2/10/2024 4:32 AM, ...w¡ñ§±¤ñ wrote:
>
> This came as a Windows 8.0 which immediately got upgraded to 8.1

That adds some creditibilty to the old 16384 Service Pack #.
- Note: Paul caught the 6.2.9200 Windows 8.0 version

It also may indicate a resistance to past feature and cumulative updates
which had code to update the WinRE partition(i.e. those updates expect to
see Win10 content not 8.0/8.1)
>
>> Which raises a few reasonable questions.
>>   What did you use to resize Windows and the Recovery Partion?
>>
>> Did you follow the KB article for resizing WinRE partition?
>>   <https://support.microsoft.com/help/5028997>
>
> Yes, except I did not use 250MB.  I have done this several times now and
> made them all a little bigger than that.
>> Anything else, about this device or past history that's not been
>> provided in earlier posts?

I.e. you used the diskpart routine to resize and not 3rd party software
- Did you also use Diskpart commands to delete the old partition 2.
- What did you use to expand C to its left(consuming the space left
over after deleting old partition #2). Diskpart can only expand the
Windows partition using unallocated space on the right side fo the
Windows partition.

If you also used reagentc /disable, then the winre.wim that was disabled
and moved to C:\Windows\...\Recovery folder just moved that old 16384 8.0
version then once reagentc /enable was later done, it just moved it back
to partition #4.
- i.e. it was not created anew.

>
> Oh, since it was not mine, I'm sure any number of unique things could
> have happened.  I doubt they updated with any consistency, but one would
> still think eventually it got done.
>
> As this is the only one of the systems I have tried to fix this issue
> that has failed, I do find it interesting and if you have other things
> you too are interested in having me try I would be available for that.

There are methods to remove the WinRE partition and create using an image
from a Win10 22H2 media(or iso) and its included Win10 RE content.
- messy but can be done, but probably not worth the effort.
> Otherwise, I could just leave it be since it could be redone with the
> good macrium image.  I don't find this the best option since I'm not sure
> whose hands this will end up in.  I'm kind of leaning towards just format
> and reinstall the entire thing.

:) If this were my device I would have wiped that device after upgrading
to Win10(digital license now link to the device) and used Win10 22H2 usb
created media for booting, its includes tools to wipe the device, and a
diskpart script to create the 4 required GPT partitions(System 100MB, MSR
16 MB, Windows, and a 2.0 GB Win RE partition, then continue and install
Windows 10 22H2
- Also, that first account created after W10 22H2 installation and
final setup would be a MSFT account, not a Local account.

>  I have the original win 8 key, but would
> like to just reinstall the Win 10 on it's own.

With Win10 on the current device and digitally licensed the Win8 key is
not needed, at at this stage useless.
Does raise a question
Was this device upgraded from Win8x Home to Win8x Pro or Win10 Home to
Win10 Pro?
- if so, how was that accomplished(Win8 Pro key or Win10 Pro key)???
=> And was it done via 'Change product key or a clean install using a
key for activation?

One can determine if the Win10 22H2 current install is digitally licensed.
- Settings/System/Activation

--
....w¡ñ§±¤ñ

Paul wrote on 2/10/24 8:29 AM:
> On 2/10/2024 5:32 AM, ...w¡ñ§±¤ñ wrote:
>> Your pic indicates Service Pack Build 16384.
>>  10240.16384 is the official RTM build of the original release of Windows 10 original released to Insider Ring on July 15 2015 and the general public on July 29th 2015. Exactly one year later ithe same build was released/used as the free upgrade version for Windows 7, 8.0 and 8.1 users.
>>
>> 16384 was also the initial Win RE build with those 2012 era 'create and modify' dates.
>
> Doesn't the 6.2.9200 indicate Windows 8.0 2012-10-26 ?
>
> This is a sample from my Win81 (6.3.9600) disk drive, which does not have
> a separate partition System Reserved. The file is on the C: partition.
> The file size in the DISM report, is the uncompressed size, whereas the
> WinRE.wim file itself is 279,000,000 or so.
>

Good catch.

--
....w¡ñ§±¤ñ

On 2/10/2024 4:02 PM, ...w¡ñ§±¤ñ wrote:
> sticks wrote on 2/10/24 8:29 AM:
>> On 2/10/2024 4:32 AM, ...w¡ñ§±¤ñ wrote:
>>
>> This came as a Windows 8.0 which immediately got upgraded to 8.1
>
>
> That adds some creditibilty to the old 16384 Service Pack #.
>  - Note: Paul caught the  6.2.9200 Windows 8.0 version
>
> It also may indicate a resistance to past feature and cumulative updates
> which had code to update the WinRE partition(i.e. those updates expect
> to see Win10 content not 8.0/8.1)
>>
>>> Which raises a few reasonable questions.
>>>   What did you use to resize Windows and the Recovery Partion?
>>>
>>> Did you follow the KB article for resizing WinRE partition?
>>>   <https://support.microsoft.com/help/5028997>

Yes, I used the elevated command prompt

>>
>> Yes, except I did not use 250MB.  I have done this several times now
>> and made them all a little bigger than that.
>>> Anything else, about this device or past history that's not been
>>> provided in earlier posts?
>
> I.e. you used the diskpart routine to resize and not 3rd party software
>  - Did you also use Diskpart commands to delete the old partition

Yes, diskpart.

I hadn't yet tried the part we talked about yesterday of removing all
the restore points since the partition was at 1.5GB and seemed to have
enough space. But, I tried it anyway yesterday. It did not help and
4441 still failed.

> :) If this were my device I would have wiped that device after upgrading
> to Win10(digital license now link to the device) and used Win10 22H2 usb
> created media for booting, its includes tools to wipe the device, and a
> diskpart script to create the 4 required GPT partitions(System 100MB,
> MSR 16 MB, Windows, and a 2.0 GB Win RE partition, then continue and
> install Windows 10 22H2
>  - Also, that first account created after W10 22H2 installation and
> final setup would be a MSFT account, not a Local account.

So I broke down and did the above. Once installed, the first set of
updates included 4441 and it went through right away. Lot of work on
this one, but alas, it is finally done and working properly!

>>   I have the original win 8 key, but would like to just reinstall the
>> Win 10 on it's own.
>
> With Win10 on the current device and digitally licensed the Win8 key is
> not needed, at at this stage useless.

This is correct. Never asked for anything.

>  Does raise a question
>  Was this device upgraded from Win8x Home to Win8x Pro or Win10 Home to
> Win10 Pro?

Both were Home versions

Much thanks!

--
Stand With Israel!
NOTE: If you use Google Groups I don't see you,
unless you're whitelisted and that's doubtful.

sticks wrote on 2/15/24 7:19 AM:
> On 2/10/2024 4:02 PM, ...w¡ñ§±¤ñ wrote:
>> sticks wrote on 2/10/24 8:29 AM:
>>> On 2/10/2024 4:32 AM, ...w¡ñ§±¤ñ wrote:
>>>
>>> This came as a Windows 8.0 which immediately got upgraded to 8.1
>>
>>
>> That adds some creditibilty to the old 16384 Service Pack #.
>>   - Note: Paul caught the  6.2.9200 Windows 8.0 version
>>
>> It also may indicate a resistance to past feature and cumulative
>> updates which had code to update the WinRE partition(i.e. those updates
>> expect to see Win10 content not 8.0/8.1)
>>>
>>>> Which raises a few reasonable questions.
>>>>   What did you use to resize Windows and the Recovery Partion?
>>>>
>>>> Did you follow the KB article for resizing WinRE partition?
>>>>   <https://support.microsoft.com/help/5028997>
>
> Yes, I used the elevated command prompt
>
>>>
>>> Yes, except I did not use 250MB.  I have done this several times now
>>> and made them all a little bigger than that.
>>>> Anything else, about this device or past history that's not been
>>>> provided in earlier posts?
>>
>> I.e. you used the diskpart routine to resize and not 3rd party software
>>   - Did you also use Diskpart commands to delete the old partition
>
> Yes, diskpart.
>
> I hadn't yet tried the part we talked about yesterday of removing all the
> restore points since the partition was at 1.5GB and seemed to have enough
> space.  But, I tried it anyway yesterday.  It did not help and 4441 still
> failed.
>
>
>> :) If this were my device I would have wiped that device after
>> upgrading to Win10(digital license now link to the device) and used
>> Win10 22H2 usb created media for booting, its includes tools to wipe
>> the device, and a diskpart script to create the 4 required GPT
>> partitions(System 100MB, MSR 16 MB, Windows, and a 2.0 GB Win RE
>> partition, then continue and install Windows 10 22H2
>>   - Also, that first account created after W10 22H2 installation and
>> final setup would be a MSFT account, not a Local account.
>
> So I broke down and did the above.  Once installed, the first set of
> updates included 4441 and it went through right away.  Lot of work on
> this one, but alas, it is finally done and working properly!
>
>>>   I have the original win 8 key, but would like to just reinstall the
>>> Win 10 on it's own.
>>
>> With Win10 on the current device and digitally licensed the Win8 key is
>> not needed, at at this stage useless.
>
> This is correct.  Never asked for anything.
>
>>   Does raise a question
>>   Was this device upgraded from Win8x Home to Win8x Pro or Win10 Home
>> to Win10 Pro?
>
> Both were Home versions
>
> Much thanks!
>
>

Wtg! Well done.
You're welcome.

You can rerun that earlier mentioned commane to see your current WinRE
Service Pack build and dates etc.

Sometimes the wipe path is the easier route, especially in this case when
the WinRE partition build was showing and old o/s(unsupported long ago)
build number.
There were other ways to replace that Win8 era WinRE...as I said messy
- one of which pulls/extracts the WinRE.wim file(using the DISM
command) from an external(or mounted ISO) same o/s(as installed) media's
install.wim file(not install.esd used in Media Creation tool media), copy
the winre.wim to the C:\..\Recovery folder allowing it be used when
reaagentc is later enabled and moved to the newly created WinRE partition.

--
....w¡ñ§±¤ñ