I don't mean scam or spam mail. I mean the ones that retailers and
others send.
I buy something at Currys or Argos, and they pester me for ages to write
a review. I shop at M&S, show my Sparks card, get pestered with "How did
we do?" This How-did-we-do practice is spreading everywhere by the week.
My GP's reception is using it now, online and after phone calls. It's
irritating.

I know I could use spam filters, but then I'd cut out wanted emails such
as receipts, guarantees and the like.

Ed

Ed Cryer wrote:
> I don't mean scam or spam mail. I mean the ones that retailers and
> others send.
> I buy something at Currys or Argos, and they pester me for ages to write
> a review. I shop at M&S, show my Sparks card, get pestered with "How did
> we do?" This How-did-we-do practice is spreading everywhere by the week.
> My GP's reception is using it now, online and after phone calls. It's
> irritating.
>
> I know I could use spam filters, but then I'd cut out wanted emails such
> as receipts, guarantees and the like.

Don't buy from those retailers. If you must, don't give them your email
or phone number(s)

It's often quicker to drive to your GP than ring.

--
Graham J

On 2024-02-21 13:11, Graham J wrote:
> Ed Cryer wrote:
>> I don't mean scam or spam mail. I mean the ones that retailers and
>> others send.
>> I buy something at Currys or Argos, and they pester me for ages to
>> write a review. I shop at M&S, show my Sparks card, get pestered with
>> "How did we do?" This How-did-we-do practice is spreading everywhere
>> by the week. My GP's reception is using it now, online and after phone
>> calls. It's irritating.
>>
>> I know I could use spam filters, but then I'd cut out wanted emails
>> such as receipts, guarantees and the like.

As these posts are machine made, they usually have a fixed pattern, in
the from and/or subject fields, so you can create an exact filter on
them to move to a separate folder (I never automatically delete, just in
case).

>
> Don't buy from those retailers.  If you must, don't give them your email
> or phone number(s)

That's often not possible.

Although at least in Europe, in the form we fill there is a tick to not
receive communications.

>
> It's often quicker to drive to your GP than ring.
>
>

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 21/02/2024 13:05, Ed Cryer wrote:
> I don't mean scam or spam mail. I mean the ones that retailers and
> others send.
> I buy something at Currys or Argos, and they pester me for ages to write
> a review. I shop at M&S, show my Sparks card, get pestered with "How did
> we do?" This How-did-we-do practice is spreading everywhere by the week.
> My GP's reception is using it now, online and after phone calls. It's
> irritating.
>
> I know I could use spam filters, but then I'd cut out wanted emails such
> as receipts, guarantees and the like.
>
> Ed
>

Yes, that's how it works these days.
Don't bother, delete them.

Fokke

Create an email for that retailer using temp email or yahoo allow you to
create an additional email with argos in the name

delete after use

mjp

"Ed Cryer" wrote in message news:ur4ov5$3496r$1@dont-email.me...

I don't mean scam or spam mail. I mean the ones that retailers and
others send.
I buy something at Currys or Argos, and they pester me for ages to write
a review. I shop at M&S, show my Sparks card, get pestered with "How did
we do?" This How-did-we-do practice is spreading everywhere by the week.
My GP's reception is using it now, online and after phone calls. It's
irritating.

I know I could use spam filters, but then I'd cut out wanted emails such
as receipts, guarantees and the like.

Ed

On 2024-02-21 14:11, MJP wrote:
> Create an email for that retailer  using temp email or yahoo allow you
> to create an additional email with argos in the name
>
> delete after use

Not viable, when we know that they will send invoices, guarantee and
other texts that we do need.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Ed,

> but then I'd cut out wanted emails such as receipts, guarantees and the
> like.

In that case you have (given yourself) no choice.

Best suggestion I can give is to have them drop into a "garbage/spam"
account (not automatically retrieved with all the other emails I mean), and
only look at them when you "have the time" (read: energy) to deal with them.
Or when you need one of those receipts, guarantees, or others (which is
mostly never).

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

"Ed Cryer" <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> wrote

|I don't mean scam or spam mail. I mean the ones that retailers and
| others send.
| I buy something at Currys or Argos, and they pester me for ages to write
| a review. I shop at M&S, show my Sparks card, get pestered with "How did
| we do?"

If you're going to sign up, have a "loyalty card", give
them you phone #, etc, then you can hardly complain
when the spam you. You've traded your privacy for a
sale price. In many cases you don't even get a real sale
price. For example, Whole Foods gives just enough
discounts to Amazon Prime customers to make them
feel clever, but it's typically just the same price the item
was last week, before they jacked it up.

I rarely buy online, so very few companies have my email
address. If you give it out then you have to accept that
they're going to take that as a license to spam.

Recently I did buy online, from a company called
1000museums. One can order a print of just about
anything that's in a museum. Their website works very
well. Their service was great. But then they started
spamming. I'd expected that. So I gave them an email
address that I never check and just checked it while
waiting for the order. If I ever order from them again
I'll do the same. I have lots of senders auto-deleted
in TBird -- any business that required an email address.

You can't have it both ways. If you're going to buy things
regularly and want the relevant emails then you're stuck.
You just have to reassure yourself that you saved 37 cents
this month, so it was worth selling out your privacy and
inviting their spam. :)

(And yes, it is spam. "How did we do" is just a gimmick to
engage you and make you feel that they deserve a
recommendation to your friends. If they want you in a
focus group they should offer to pay you.)

Fokke Nauta wrote:
> On 21/02/2024 13:05, Ed Cryer wrote:
>> I don't mean scam or spam mail. I mean the ones that retailers and
>> others send.
>> I buy something at Currys or Argos, and they pester me for ages to
>> write a review. I shop at M&S, show my Sparks card, get pestered with
>> "How did we do?" This How-did-we-do practice is spreading everywhere
>> by the week. My GP's reception is using it now, online and after phone
>> calls. It's irritating.
>>
>> I know I could use spam filters, but then I'd cut out wanted emails
>> such as receipts, guarantees and the like.
>>
>> Ed
>>
>
> Yes, that's how it works these days.
> Don't bother, delete them.
>
> Fokke

Having given this a bit more thought (plus, talked it over with a
friend) I feel rather hypocritical.
I often use online reviews, both professional and personal, and feel
grateful to the people who've taken the time to write them. Buying
things, booking hotels, choosing restaurants etc. I can also see that
"How did we do?" helps to improve things, including keeping staff on the
line.
People power.

I've decided to live uncomplainingly with it; and even do more personal
reviewing than I currently do.

Ed

Ed Cryer wrote:

> I buy something at Currys or Argos, and they pester me for ages to write
> a review. I shop at M&S, show my Sparks card, get pestered with "How did
> we do?" This How-did-we-do practice is spreading everywhere by the week.
> My GP's reception is using it now, online and after phone calls. It's
> irritating.

They mostly obey GDPR requests to not send you shit.

On Wed, 21 Feb 2024 12:05:41 +0000, Ed Cryer wrote:
>
> I don't mean scam or spam mail. I mean the ones that retailers and
> others send.
> I buy something at Currys or Argos, and they pester me for ages to write
> a review. I shop at M&S, show my Sparks card, get pestered with "How did
> we do?" This How-did-we-do practice is spreading everywhere by the week.
> My GP's reception is using it now, online and after phone calls. It's
> irritating.
>
> I know I could use spam filters, but then I'd cut out wanted emails such
> as receipts, guarantees and the like.

If it's a real company, there's usually an Unsubscribe
link at the bottom of such mails.

Granted, that doesn't always work. I had a subscription
to /Astronomy/ magazine a few years ago, and Kalmbach
Media keeps sending me marketing messages not just for
/Astronomy/ but for other enterprises of theirs. When I
click the Unsubscribe link, I get a web page that says
I have no subscriptions at Kalmbach Media. They have a
customer service phone number, but though the rep
promised to stop the emails she didn't.

But that's unusual. Most real businesses stopped
sending me solicitations to review after I clicked
their Unsubscribe.

You could always give a low rating and explain in your
review that it's because they keep spamming you with
requests for a review.

--
Stan Brown, Tehachapi, California, USA
https://BrownMath.com/
Shikata ga nai...

Stan Brown wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Feb 2024 12:05:41 +0000, Ed Cryer wrote:
>>
>> I don't mean scam or spam mail. I mean the ones that retailers and
>> others send.
>> I buy something at Currys or Argos, and they pester me for ages to write
>> a review. I shop at M&S, show my Sparks card, get pestered with "How did
>> we do?" This How-did-we-do practice is spreading everywhere by the week.
>> My GP's reception is using it now, online and after phone calls. It's
>> irritating.
>>
>> I know I could use spam filters, but then I'd cut out wanted emails such
>> as receipts, guarantees and the like.
>
> If it's a real company, there's usually an Unsubscribe
> link at the bottom of such mails.
>
> Granted, that doesn't always work. I had a subscription
> to /Astronomy/ magazine a few years ago, and Kalmbach
> Media keeps sending me marketing messages not just for
> /Astronomy/ but for other enterprises of theirs. When I
> click the Unsubscribe link, I get a web page that says
> I have no subscriptions at Kalmbach Media. They have a
> customer service phone number, but though the rep
> promised to stop the emails she didn't.
>
> But that's unusual. Most real businesses stopped
> sending me solicitations to review after I clicked
> their Unsubscribe.
>
> You could always give a low rating and explain in your
> review that it's because they keep spamming you with
> requests for a review.
>

Have you ever had the telephone calls where, when you answer, they hang up?
I have one female who rings me and asks for Mr Taylor, or Mr Bright, or
Mr Gigglesworth; I say he's not here and hang up.
The other day she asked for Mr Taylor, so I shouted behind me "Mr
Taylor, you're wanted on the phone". The caller stayed on the line until
I hung up.
These calls come from different numbers across the UK.

What is going on here? Whatever it is, it makes me jumpy and suspicious
of a whole host of possible scams.

Ed

On 2024-02-21 19:56, Ed Cryer wrote:
> Stan Brown wrote:
>> On Wed, 21 Feb 2024 12:05:41 +0000, Ed Cryer wrote:

>
> Have you ever had the telephone calls where, when you answer, they hang up?

Robocall.

There are two explanations.

They have a bunch of humans. There is a machine making calls. If nobody
answers, the machine goes to the next number in the list. When someone
answers, it is passed fast to a human. If there is no human available,
it hangs down silently. Not even a “Sorry!”

The rationale is not having the humans iddle a single second. Costs
money to them.

The other explanation is also a robocall, which is testing for a human
presence at the other end, find out when there is somebody home or not.

> I have one female who rings me and asks for Mr Taylor, or Mr Bright, or
> Mr Gigglesworth; I say he's not here and hang up.
> The other day she asked for Mr Taylor, so I shouted behind me "Mr
> Taylor, you're wanted on the phone". The caller stayed on the line until
> I hung up.
> These calls come from different numbers across the UK.

This one is peculiar.

> What is going on here? Whatever it is, it makes me jumpy and suspicious
> of a whole host of possible scams.

Never say "yes".

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2024-02-21 19:56, Ed Cryer wrote:
>> Stan Brown wrote:
>>> On Wed, 21 Feb 2024 12:05:41 +0000, Ed Cryer wrote:
>
>
>>
>> Have you ever had the telephone calls where, when you answer, they
>> hang up?
>
> Robocall.
>
> There are two explanations.
>
> They have a bunch of humans. There is a machine making calls. If nobody
> answers, the machine goes to the next number in the list. When someone
> answers, it is passed fast to a human. If there is no human available,
> it hangs down silently. Not even a “Sorry!”
>
> The rationale is not having the humans iddle a single second. Costs
> money to them.
>
>
> The other explanation is also a robocall, which is testing for a human
> presence at the other end, find out when there is somebody home or not.
>
>> I have one female who rings me and asks for Mr Taylor, or Mr Bright,
>> or Mr Gigglesworth; I say he's not here and hang up.
>> The other day she asked for Mr Taylor, so I shouted behind me "Mr
>> Taylor, you're wanted on the phone". The caller stayed on the line
>> until I hung up.
>> These calls come from different numbers across the UK.
>
> This one is peculiar.
>
>
>> What is going on here? Whatever it is, it makes me jumpy and
>> suspicious of a whole host of possible scams.
>
> Never say "yes".
>
I suspect they're not hardened criminals; they're just poor saps who've
been offered a job when there's no other. Somewhere in the poor world.
They get given a list of telephone numbers, call them and record whether
they answer or not.
If they answer, it's a valid number. And that gets added to a "valid
number list", which is sold to spammers and scammers. But the poor sap
doing the groundwork isn't sufficiently savvy to know what's going on.
It's a moral dilemma. Because, if you shout at and abuse the poor sap
front man, you're abusing someone who's already being abused and exploited.
Ed

Ed Cryer wrote:
> Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> On 2024-02-21 19:56, Ed Cryer wrote:
>>> Stan Brown wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 21 Feb 2024 12:05:41 +0000, Ed Cryer wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Have you ever had the telephone calls where, when you answer, they
>>> hang up?
>>
>> Robocall.
>>
>> There are two explanations.
>>
>> They have a bunch of humans. There is a machine making calls. If
>> nobody answers, the machine goes to the next number in the list. When
>> someone answers, it is passed fast to a human. If there is no human
>> available, it hangs down silently. Not even a “Sorry!”
>>
>> The rationale is not having the humans iddle a single second. Costs
>> money to them.
>>
>>
>> The other explanation is also a robocall, which is testing for a human
>> presence at the other end, find out when there is somebody home or not.
>>
>>> I have one female who rings me and asks for Mr Taylor, or Mr Bright,
>>> or Mr Gigglesworth; I say he's not here and hang up.
>>> The other day she asked for Mr Taylor, so I shouted behind me "Mr
>>> Taylor, you're wanted on the phone". The caller stayed on the line
>>> until I hung up.
>>> These calls come from different numbers across the UK.
>>
>> This one is peculiar.
>>
>>
>>> What is going on here? Whatever it is, it makes me jumpy and
>>> suspicious of a whole host of possible scams.
>>
>> Never say "yes".
>>
>
> I suspect they're not hardened criminals; they're just poor saps who've
> been offered a job when there's no other. Somewhere in the poor world.
> They get given a list of telephone numbers, call them and record whether
> they answer or not.
> If they answer, it's a valid number. And that gets added to a "valid
> number list", which is sold to spammers and scammers. But the poor sap
> doing the groundwork isn't sufficiently savvy to know what's going on.
>
> It's a moral dilemma. Because, if you shout at and abuse the poor sap
> front man, you're abusing someone who's already being abused and exploited.
>
> Ed
>
Interesting dilemma. Here's how I dissect it with the tools of western
scientific rationalism.
We've all seen "Apocalypse Now"; and we've all read the Joseph Conrad
book it was based on; Heart of Darkness. It's so strongly a part of
recent history; which includes guilt about how America treated native
indians, Australians treated aborigines, how poor far eastern cultures
have been squashed by colonialism.
The Apache helicopters move in, loaded with marines, while Wagner's Ride
of the Valkyries blasts out, moving in on the poor village, while some
poor girl who's sided with the liberation forces runs for her life.
Where does your heart lie? Because reason can't decide here. Do you love
or hate the helicopters? Do you feel for the poor running girl?
People will try to argue the case; and use rational discourse to do it.
They'll argue until the cows come home, but the philosopher will beat
them; he'll peal off the onion-skins of their prejudices and reveal the
irrational heart beneath it. And, I'm glad to say, most people I talk to
easily acknowledge this split in the moral consciousness.
Ed

On 2024-02-21 20:21, Ed Cryer wrote:
> Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> On 2024-02-21 19:56, Ed Cryer wrote:
>>> Stan Brown wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 21 Feb 2024 12:05:41 +0000, Ed Cryer wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Have you ever had the telephone calls where, when you answer, they
>>> hang up?
>>
>> Robocall.
>>
>> There are two explanations.
>>
>> They have a bunch of humans. There is a machine making calls. If
>> nobody answers, the machine goes to the next number in the list. When
>> someone answers, it is passed fast to a human. If there is no human
>> available, it hangs down silently. Not even a “Sorry!”
>>
>> The rationale is not having the humans iddle a single second. Costs
>> money to them.
>>
>>
>> The other explanation is also a robocall, which is testing for a human
>> presence at the other end, find out when there is somebody home or not.
>>
>>> I have one female who rings me and asks for Mr Taylor, or Mr Bright,
>>> or Mr Gigglesworth; I say he's not here and hang up.
>>> The other day she asked for Mr Taylor, so I shouted behind me "Mr
>>> Taylor, you're wanted on the phone". The caller stayed on the line
>>> until I hung up.
>>> These calls come from different numbers across the UK.
>>
>> This one is peculiar.
>>
>>
>>> What is going on here? Whatever it is, it makes me jumpy and
>>> suspicious of a whole host of possible scams.
>>
>> Never say "yes".
>>
>
> I suspect they're not hardened criminals; they're just poor saps who've
> been offered a job when there's no other. Somewhere in the poor world.
> They get given a list of telephone numbers, call them and record whether
> they answer or not.
> If they answer, it's a valid number. And that gets added to a "valid
> number list", which is sold to spammers and scammers. But the poor sap
> doing the groundwork isn't sufficiently savvy to know what's going on.
>
> It's a moral dilemma. Because, if you shout at and abuse the poor sap
> front man, you're abusing someone who's already being abused and exploited.

Nono, this is done "locally", at least many of them are. They already
know my full name. They have validated phone lists.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On Wed, 21 Feb 2024 19:21:36 +0000, Ed Cryer wrote:
> Carlos E.R. wrote:
> > [quoted text muted]
> >> suspicious of a whole host of possible scams.
> >
> > Never say "yes".

The reason for this is that the call may be recorded, and it's
child's play to splice in a different question, like "How about I
subscribe you to our newsletter? After the first issue we'll bill you
a low, low 9.99 a month." If they've got "Yes" in your voice it's
harder to prove you never consented.
> I suspect they're not hardened criminals; they're just poor saps who've
> been offered a job when there's no other. Somewhere in the poor world.
> They get given a list of telephone numbers, call them and record whether
> they answer or not.

I can't say for sure that you're wrong, but a robocaller is cheaper
than a human. And your sometimes hangups are consistent with it being
a robot that just hangs up on you because there's no human available
to try to hook you.

> It's a moral dilemma. Because, if you shout at and abuse the poor sap
> front man, you're abusing someone who's already being abused and exploited.

That's true, but "I'm just following orders" as an excuse was
exploded in the 1940s. No one -- NO ONE -- thinks telemarketing calls
are welcome. If someone chooses to do that work, they have to accept
that verbal abuse comes with it. However, abusing the caller won't
change the behavior.

The thing to do, if you want to disincentivize the behavior, is to
engage the person with a zillion questions. That ties them up with no
revenue for the telemarketing company or the scum who hired the
telemarketing company. Just think if we all did that!

Or you could take the Seinfeld approach:

<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lNJIpn1Pcg>

--
Stan Brown, Tehachapi, California, USA https://BrownMath.com/
Shikata ga nai...

On Wed, 21 Feb 2024 12:05:41 +0000, Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk>
wrote as underneath :

>I don't mean scam or spam mail. I mean the ones that retailers and
>others send.
>I buy something at Currys or Argos, and they pester me for ages to write
>a review. I shop at M&S, show my Sparks card, get pestered with "How did
>we do?" This How-did-we-do practice is spreading everywhere by the week.
>My GP's reception is using it now, online and after phone calls. It's
>irritating.
>
>I know I could use spam filters, but then I'd cut out wanted emails such
>as receipts, guarantees and the like.
>
The practical answer is to use Mailwasher or an equivalent
filtering/learning program. Have a look at what these progs do. Iv' Used
Mailwasher + an off line reader (Agent in my case) since about about
Windows95 C+

On Wed, 21 Feb 2024 13:25:08 +0100, "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
wrote:

>On 2024-02-21 13:11, Graham J wrote:
>> Ed Cryer wrote:
>>> I don't mean scam or spam mail. I mean the ones that retailers and
>>> others send.
>>> I buy something at Currys or Argos, and they pester me for ages to
>>> write a review. I shop at M&S, show my Sparks card, get pestered with
>>> "How did we do?" This How-did-we-do practice is spreading everywhere
>>> by the week. My GP's reception is using it now, online and after phone
>>> calls. It's irritating.
>>>
>>> I know I could use spam filters, but then I'd cut out wanted emails
>>> such as receipts, guarantees and the like.
>
>As these posts are machine made, they usually have a fixed pattern, in
>the from and/or subject fields, so you can create an exact filter on
>them to move to a separate folder (I never automatically delete, just in
>case).

That's generally what I do, and it has been successful. There's no reason to use
a big hammer and block "all from sender" when it's usually easy to block just
the annoying stuff. I give them a chance by using the Unsubscribe link, but if
they ignore it then I add a filter. I give them enough time to do the right
thing, of course.

Every now and then I do leave a review, especially when something specific could
have been handled better or when an employee has gone above and beyond to make
things better. IME, leaving a review stops the emails, as it should.