"J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote

| > I've used a RichEdit window for many years in my own code editor.
| >It's wonderfully powerful and the format is published. Though I'd
| >agree that Wordpad/Write is not very useful. It's the power of RTF
| >squeezed through a narrow funnel. If I want attractive formatting
| >I use HTML. These days, an HTML file can even have the images
| >embedded inline as base64. I keep VBScripts on my desktop to do
| >just that.
| >
| Is that what the "save as single file" option some browsers offer does?

I've never noticed that option. I'll have to check it out.
Mostly I've only used the option for my own purposes and
not with large images. The HTML can get very clunky if
you're saving a bloated page with big images. So personally
I'd just save them in a folder if I want them. But sometimes
I write HTML for my own purposes and need images embedded.
For instance, I have a page to help identify garden trace
elements missing by looking at leaf irregularities. There are lots
of images, but they're all small, so it was a perfect use for
embedding.

J. P. ,

> Apparently it's at [snip], or was three years ago

Thanks. Thats about the same time back as the linux article Paul linked
to.

> it's either 2.93 GB or about 50 GB (I think the smaller [one post says
> "The code for XP is 3GB ish but there's also a larger 50GB torrent that
> also includes Windows Server 2003, MS-DOS 6, and a whole lotta Bill Gates
> conspiracy videos."]);

Alas, I just tried with the HTTP as well as the HTTPS prefix, but the
connection fails either way.

Though googeling for the filename gives a few hits that I could look into.

I hope I will find a magnet link, as my downloader normally shows all the
included files, where I than can de-select the unwanted ones (just the XP
branch is currently enough for me).

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

In message <uu4evs$3olki$1@dont-email.me> at Thu, 28 Mar 2024 15:04:17,
Newyana2 <Newyana2@invalid.nospam> writes
>"J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote
[]
>| >I use HTML. These days, an HTML file can even have the images
>| >embedded inline as base64. I keep VBScripts on my desktop to do
>| >just that.
>| >
>| Is that what the "save as single file" option some browsers offer does?
>
> I've never noticed that option. I'll have to check it out.
>Mostly I've only used the option for my own purposes and
>not with large images. The HTML can get very clunky if
>you're saving a bloated page with big images. So personally
>I'd just save them in a folder if I want them. But sometimes
[]
I had the feeling that at least Firefox used to use a different
extension when saving as a single file, but now (I let it update not too
long ago) both Firefox and Chrome* use the same extension (a choice of
..htm or .html) whether saving "single file" or "complete", so I may be
wrong about that.

* At first I'd typed Chrime. I rather liked that (-:
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

My movies rise below vulgarity. - Mel Brooks, quoted by Barry Norman in RT
2016/11/26-12/2

In message <uu4fu5$3osvr$1@dont-email.me> at Thu, 28 Mar 2024 20:20:20,
R.Wieser <address@is.invalid> writes
>J. P. ,
>
>
>> Apparently it's at [snip], or was three years ago
>
>Thanks. Thats about the same time back as the linux article Paul linked
>to.
>
>> it's either 2.93 GB or about 50 GB (I think the smaller [one post says
>> "The code for XP is 3GB ish but there's also a larger 50GB torrent that
>> also includes Windows Server 2003, MS-DOS 6, and a whole lotta Bill Gates
>> conspiracy videos."]);
>
>Alas, I just tried with the HTTP as well as the HTTPS prefix, but the
>connection fails either way.
>
>Though googeling for the filename gives a few hits that I could look into.
>
>I hope I will find a magnet link, as my downloader normally shows all the
>included files, where I than can de-select the unwanted ones (just the XP
>branch is currently enough for me).
>
>Regards,
>Rudy Wieser
>
>
>
One of the posts in the Reddit article:
===
Working torrent magnet link for Win XP source. 46Gb. Only for research
purposes.

magnet:?xt=urn:btih:3d8b16242b56a3aafb8da7b5fc83ef993ebcf35b&dn=Microsoft
%20leaked%20source%20code%20archive_2020-09-24

XP source is located in this archive: nt5src.rar
===
I'd ignored it, as I had no idea what it was about (I've never used
torrent, and guessed it was something to do with that).
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

My movies rise below vulgarity. - Mel Brooks, quoted by Barry Norman in RT
2016/11/26-12/2

"J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:

> Newyana2 <Newyana2@invalid.nospam> WROTE:
>
>>"VanguardLH" <V@nguard.LH> wrote
>>
>>| I just checked, and there are over 10K .rtf files on my C: drive, many
>>| of which are for EULA or license docs. Most are under 300 KB in size,
>>| so not too bad. One is 27 MB for a readme.rtf in Thief 2. When opened
>>| in Wordpad, there is no way that content needs to consume 27 MB.
>>
>> Maybe images? I checked my system. I have 105 RTFs. If you
>>have over 10K then it sounds like it's time for some housecleaning.
>
> 262 here (all but 15 on C:, so not created by me), all but 7 under your
> 300K threshold.
>
> I'm guessing VLH has something that makes them, possibly as a
> transitional stage that it's not cleaning up properly. Everything.exe is
> great for looking there - you can sort by date modified, size, or path
> (and it remembers your choice, so I don't know what's the default -
> probably name).

As I said, most are EULA.rtf or license.rtf files. I used voidtools'
[Search] Everything, not Windows Search to find *.rtf files. Only 19
are in my Downloads folder of which most are provide license info in
several languages (locales). 254 are under the WinSxS folder where
multiple versions of system files are stored to allow compatibility with
apps that want old versions. You sure whatever you used to search for
*.rtf files looked everywhere?

9492 are for rollup fixes (under C:\Windows\servicing\LCU\). I'm not
yet sure that I want to remove the Last Cumulative Update folders that
can undo a cumulative update, but then I rely on daily scheduled image
backups to restore the exact prior state of my drives. When I run Disk
Cleanup (cleanmgr.exe) on the C: drive, and select to scan system files,
LCU might be the "Windows Update Cleanup" option which is deselected, by
default, and reports consuming 5.76 GB. On a 1 TB drive with only 98 GB
used, 5 GB isn't of much concern. I'll put that cleanup in a reminder
sticky to run after the next monthly scheduled full image backup.

Apparently the Stickies app I use for notes (I don't like the one in
Windows 10) uses RTF to allow formatting in my notes. I can't remember
ever pasting an image into any sticky note. As for formatting, mostly
that's to add a bulleted list in the note. The app makes backups, and
there are many of those. Stickies come and go, but their backups
remain. I could clean out the backups (ran daily) to keep just the last
one (and the current notes), but that only eliminates a couple hundred.
It has an option "Keep the most recent N backups" (I set it to 15), but
guess that's not working. Those are 1 to 2 KB each. Compared to the
9492 RTF files stored under the LCU folder, Stickies use of RTF files
and saving backups is a miniscule concern.

I was only definite on how many files there were total. The 300KB size
is my eyes watching the Size column as I scroll the very long list while
looking to find a typical maximum size, and ignore the occasional big
jump (outliers). The list is too big for Everything (it hangs) to
select the entire list to right-click to get aggregate properties to
find their total space consumption. The big reduction will come when I
later run Disk Cleanup to get rid of the LCU subfolders.

"R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> wrote:

> Vanguard,
>
>> The problem is that you refuse to acknowledge that Wordpad won't
>> do what you want,
>
> Do tell me where you have posted that you think that that wordpad can't do
> it.
>
> *Thats* the problem.

Syntax: wordpad [/p] <filespec>

That's it. Get over your desire for Wordpad to have more args. You can
pray as much as you like, but sometimes God says No.

>> You open Wordpad with a file, you want to open another instance of
>> Wordpad to the same but since-changed file, but you involve taskkill
>> to eliminate the earlier instance of Wordpad. Why can't you just
>> exit the earlier instance before you load the next one?
>
> I can, and currently have to.
>
> But I thought I made it rather clear why I wanted to eliminate that
> manual middle step (and why!). If not I suggest you re-read the
> thread, I've mentioned it multiple times.

You're going to leave Wordpad windows open indefinitely until sometime
later when you shutdown Windows?

>> No having to find the PID of the prior instance of Wordpad.
>
> And with that you show that you have no clue how that taskkill works.

I suggest *YOU* run at the command line:

taskkill /?

Specifying the PID is one way. Specifying the image name is another,
but takes out all processes with the same image name.

Really that hard for you to read the syntax description to see PID is
one way to specify what process to kill? What the hell do you think the
/pid argument is for? Of course, in your snipping, you handily omit
that I mention using the /im argument to specify the image name.

You must specify WHAT to kill? So, how do you do it for taskkill?
Apparently you profess that you don't use /pid or /im, so how ELSE do
you use taskkill?

In message <quv3iy1tpfqz.dlg@v.nguard.lh> at Thu, 28 Mar 2024 14:57:48,
VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> writes
>"J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
>
>> Newyana2 <Newyana2@invalid.nospam> WROTE:
>>
>>>"VanguardLH" <V@nguard.LH> wrote
>>>
>>>| I just checked, and there are over 10K .rtf files on my C: drive, many
>>>| of which are for EULA or license docs. Most are under 300 KB in size,
>>>| so not too bad. One is 27 MB for a readme.rtf in Thief 2. When opened
>>>| in Wordpad, there is no way that content needs to consume 27 MB.
>>>
>>> Maybe images? I checked my system. I have 105 RTFs. If you
>>>have over 10K then it sounds like it's time for some housecleaning.
>>
>> 262 here (all but 15 on C:, so not created by me), all but 7 under your
>> 300K threshold.
>>
>> I'm guessing VLH has something that makes them, possibly as a
>> transitional stage that it's not cleaning up properly. Everything.exe is
>> great for looking there - you can sort by date modified, size, or path
>> (and it remembers your choice, so I don't know what's the default -
>> probably name).
>
>As I said, most are EULA.rtf or license.rtf files. I used voidtools'
>[Search] Everything, not Windows Search to find *.rtf files. Only 19

As did I (Everything.exe). Of my 262 objects, 50 are EULA (well, two
EULA and 48 eula) - some in C:\Windows\Microsoft.NET\Framework, the rest
in C:\Windows\WindowsMobile (apart from one I had downloaded). Another
150 are license (well, two are License), and ten license_<language>. So
that accounts for 210 of my 262 .rtf objects.

>are in my Downloads folder of which most are provide license info in
>several languages (locales). 254 are under the WinSxS folder where

103 of my .rtf objects are in winsxs, 89 of which are license.

>multiple versions of system files are stored to allow compatibility with
>apps that want old versions. You sure whatever you used to search for
>*.rtf files looked everywhere?

It's found them on C: and D:. (Only 15 on D: - it's not a filetype I use
much.)
>
>9492 are for rollup fixes (under C:\Windows\servicing\LCU\). I'm not
>yet sure that I want to remove the Last Cumulative Update folders that
>can undo a cumulative update, but then I rely on daily scheduled image
>backups to restore the exact prior state of my drives. When I run Disk
>Cleanup (cleanmgr.exe) on the C: drive, and select to scan system files,
>LCU might be the "Windows Update Cleanup" option which is deselected, by
>default, and reports consuming 5.76 GB. On a 1 TB drive with only 98 GB
>used, 5 GB isn't of much concern. I'll put that cleanup in a reminder
>sticky to run after the next monthly scheduled full image backup.
>
>Apparently the Stickies app I use for notes (I don't like the one in
>Windows 10) uses RTF to allow formatting in my notes. I can't remember

Ah, are you on 10? I'm on 7. That might explain the difference/bloat.
[]
>I was only definite on how many files there were total. The 300KB size
>is my eyes watching the Size column as I scroll the very long list while
>looking to find a typical maximum size, and ignore the occasional big
>jump (outliers). The list is too big for Everything (it hangs) to
>select the entire list to right-click to get aggregate properties to
>find their total space consumption. The big reduction will come when I
>later run Disk Cleanup to get rid of the LCU subfolders.

You can click the Size column heading in Everything, unless that crashes
it too with that many hits. My 263 come to 56.2 MB. (Oh, 260 - it had
picked up three .rtf.lnk where I'd clicked during this discussion, to
see what some of them were.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Find out what works. Then do it. That's my system. I'm always surprised it
isn't more popular. - Scott Adams, 2015

"R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> wrote:

> Vanguard,
>
>>> IOW, it gets a signal someone tried to open a document with the same
>>> name it already has, but than blithely ignores al that information.
>>
>> There is no "dirty bit" to identify a file has been changed after it
>> has been loaded
>
> Why should a "dirty bit" be involved ? Just throw whatever is in there out
> and reload the provided file. Not really rocket science.
>
>> in any process with a file handle on it.
>
> Mistake. As reading this thread about how wordpad (doesn't) deals with its
> underlying document should have shown you (there is no "handle" it keeps).

No process can open a file to read or write without first creating
(open) a file handle (descriptor) on it. That's how file I/O works.
Once the file has been buffered, the file handle may no longer needed
(closed). You'd think an editor would leave open the file handle to
accomodate writes, but it could also close the handle, let you make
edits to its buffer, and then save the changes later (open the file,
write, close the file).

>> yes, there is a dirty bit to let the editor there was a change to
>> prompt you on exit to save changes.
>
> Second mistake : trying to conflate the files "dirty" bit with the one
> which signals that the editors contents where changed. Nasty move.

"signals that the editor's content were change". That's the dirty bit,
change flag, or whatever term you want to use. When you change anything
in the editor, it tracks there was a change. Even if you delete a space
and re-add it, the dirty bit aka change flag aka pick-your-term tracks
there was a change.

>> You want cooperating that doesn't exist.
>
> Fourth mistake.
>
> And that was told to me (by you or anyone else) ... where ?

How about EVERYTHING that has participated here telling you about
workarounds instead of the miraculous command-line arguments you WISH
Wordpad had?

>> The root of the problem is Wordpad is
>
> (that it)
>
>> has no command-line args (other than filespec and /p),
>
> Nice to see you contradict yourself in a single line. :-)

You're not only uber pendantic, but want to omit that exclusions can be
specified in a rule. Okay, let's see if you can manage to cogitate
using your two brain cells to figure out the following. Syntax is:

wordpad.exe [/p] <filespec>

That's it. That's all you get. Nothing more. No other command-line
arguments available regardless of what you wish for. You act like a
child that thinks everything must be your way. Now go searching for
yourself to find someone citing more command-line arguments for Wordpad.
Enjoy wasting your time.

On 3/28/2024 2:58 PM, Newyana2 wrote:
> "Paul" <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote
>
> | The source code for Windows XP was stolen.
> | That means, somewhere, there's a copy of Wordpad source for WinXP.
> |
>
> In VBClassic and probably in .Net there are simple wrapper
> controls for the MS RichEdit library. It's actually not a big deal
> to create a Wordpad type of program. But does anyone use
> it anymore? I used to use it for help files and such where I
> wanted formatting, but HTML is more flexible and looks nicer.
> There's something about the display of bold text in RTF that
> always looked clunky to me.
>
>

As it's source code, you have "the materials for a good time".

Who can say how easy it is to use, that stuff. Me just getting
some version of Visual Studio home edition to work, is hard enough
right now. Let alone actually edit some source.

Paul

J. P. ,

> magnet:?xt=urn:btih:3d8b16242b56a3aafb8da7b5fc83ef993ebcf35b&dn=Microsoft
> %20leaked%20source%20code%20archive_2020-09-24
>
> XP source is located in this archive: nt5src.rar

When saving the link I noticed it matches the first part of the magnet-link
provided on the linux webpage Paul linked to ...

Nonetheless, Thank you. :-)

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

Vanguard,

>>> The problem is that you refuse to acknowledge that Wordpad won't
>>> do what you want,
>>
>> Do tell me where you have posted that you think that that wordpad can't
>> do
>> it.
>>
>> *Thats* the problem.
>
> Syntax: wordpad [/p] <filespec>
>
> That's it. Get over your desire for Wordpad to have more args.

You seem to have a problem with your chronology.

I did not ask you if you *now* can come up with something, I asked you where
you did *before* chewing me out over it.

.... or did you hope I would not notice what you did ? :-)

And by the way, I seem to have found information where you can, from the
commandline, select a different printer. IOW, an indication that "{command}
/?" doen't always tell you everything (something I have also seen in regard
to other MS programs).

> You're going to leave Wordpad windows open indefinitely until
> sometime later when you shutdown Windows?

:-) You're fishing for reasons to why you can claim I'm wrong, and than
retroactivily put that onto the current case, aren't you ?

> I suggest *YOU* run at the command line:
>
> taskkill /?
>
> Specifying the PID is one way. Specifying the image name is another,
> but takes out all processes with the same image name.

I suggest you do that again yourself, and now /actually read/ what it says.

Hint : the "/FI" argument.

> Really that hard for you to read the syntax description to see
> PID is one way to specify what process to kill?

I noticed, yes. The problem is that you said, in relation to what *I* was
doing, "No having to find the PID of the prior instance of Wordpad.".

No, I didn't need a PID, so its anybodies guess (although I have a suspicion
or two) to why you mentioned it.

> Apparently you profess that you don't use /pid or /im,

You /realy/ have a reading problem, don't you ? I challenge you to quote
where I said that I dodn't use /im. I'll even go further : quote where I
mentioned /any/ of taskkill's arguments - *before* you tried to make claims
to how I did it wrong ofcourse.

> so how ELSE do you use taskkill?

Kid, your "you're wrong!" only exists because you, on purpose or otherwise,
change what /has/ being said into something that better serves your own
goals.

You're not the first one, and you'll likely will not be the last one trying
it either. :-(

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

Vanguard,

>> Mistake. As reading this thread about how wordpad (doesn't) deals
>> with its underlying document should have shown you (there is no
>> "handle" it keeps).
>
> No process can open a file to read or write without first creating
> (open) a file handle (descriptor) on it.

True.

But what has that to do with what I said in the quote of mine just above
your response ?

Or do you want me to post some very factual information to how plants grow
and demand that you accept it as proof that what you said is wrong ? And
yes, what you did there is as silly.

> "signals that the editor's content were change". That's the dirty bit,
> change flag, or whatever term you want to use.

Ah yes, that was where you tried to conflate changes of the file and of the
contents of the editor.

Pray tell, *why* did you come up with the above ? Where did I mention that
was of any concern to me ? And yes, I expect you to quote it.

>> And that was told to me (by you or anyone else) ... where ?
>
> How about EVERYTHING that has participated here telling you
> about workarounds

It could have multiple reasons, with one of them none of the posters*
knowing nothing about the commandline arguments of wordpad.

* excluding J. P. and possibly Paul ofcourse. :-)

> instead of the miraculous command-line arguments you WISH
> Wordpad had?

Again, quote where I said that I /wished/, or as you try to make it sound
like /demanded/ they (multiple?) would be available. Why ?

You see, as far as I can tell I asked "Is there a way to override this
behaviour using a command-line argument ?". Yes, a simple 'does it exist?'
question.

No, you /again/ tried to wrangle something simple I said in something it has
never been. And that reflects poorly on you.

>>> The root of the problem is Wordpad is
>>
>> (that it)
>>
>>> has no command-line args (other than filespec and /p),
>>
>> Nice to see you contradict yourself in a single line. :-)
>
> You're not only uber pendantic,

Maybe you should not have tried to claim I said stuff I never have, cause
that triggers my 'read extra carefully' mode, which also captures stuff like
the above.

IOW: you don't like it ? You know how to fix it.

> but want to omit that exclusions
> can be specified in a rule.

The thing is that I didn't ask for exclusions. I asked for an existence.
Which /should/ have been simple to answer. But obviously not for you...

> wordpad.exe [/p] <filespec>
>
> That's it. That's all you get. Nothing more.

Yeah, you also said that in another post.

The problem with that is that I both have different information, as well as
knowing that some commands/programs have "hidden" arguments.

And yes, I was hoping that perhaps wordpad would have such a hidden
argument. Perhaps a far-fetched hope, but as they say, "if you don't shoot
you will never hit the target". Why do you think my question was so concise
?

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

"R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> wrote:

> Vanguard,
>
>>>> The problem is that you refuse to acknowledge that Wordpad won't
>>>> do what you want,
>>>
>>> Do tell me where you have posted that you think that that wordpad
>>> can't do it.
>>>
>>> *Thats* the problem.
>>
>> Syntax: wordpad [/p] <filespec>
>>
>> That's it. Get over your desire for Wordpad to have more args.
>
> You seem to have a problem with your chronology.
>
> I did not ask you if you *now* can come up with something, I asked you
> where you did *before* chewing me out over it.
>
> ... or did you hope I would not notice what you did ? :-)

See Message-ID <vdvl7tuiv15j.dlg@v.nguard.lh> where I mentioned filespec
and /p arguments, and only those. I said that 3 days ago. That was my
first response.

> And by the way, I seem to have found information where you can, from
> the commandline, select a different printer.

Yep, mentioned the /p arg back in my first response, too.

>> You're going to leave Wordpad windows open indefinitely until
>> sometime later when you shutdown Windows?
>
>: -) You're fishing for reasons to why you can claim I'm wrong, and
>: than retroactivily put that onto the current case, aren't you ?

And you divert via lambaste by not saying why you need to keep Wordpad
open between separate runs on your program. To have you clarify, you
run your program, open Wordpad, and then immediately run your program
again? How often do you run the "program"?

>> I suggest *YOU* run at the command line:
>>
>> taskkill /?
>>
>> Specifying the PID is one way. Specifying the image name is another,
>> but takes out all processes with the same image name.
>
> I suggest you do that again yourself, and now /actually read/ what it says.
>
> Hint : the "/FI" argument.

Which can also specify image name or PID. Window title can also be
specified, but all instances of Wordpad you open to the same file will
have "<samefilespec> - WordPad" as their title, so no different than
using "/im wordpad". Well, I didn't think about you having other
instances of Wordpad open to edit other files since the topic herein was
about you using Wordpad on the same file created by your "program". If
you have other instances of Wordpad open at the time, and they loaded
different files, then /im wordpad would nail more than those just for
the program's output file.

>> Really that hard for you to read the syntax description to see
>> PID is one way to specify what process to kill?
>
> I noticed, yes. The problem is that you said, in relation to what *I*
> was doing, "No having to find the PID of the prior instance of
> Wordpad.".
>
> No, I didn't need a PID, so its anybodies guess (although I have a suspicion
> or two) to why you mentioned it.

Have you yet disclosed just how you are running taskkill? With which
args? Your "program" remains a mystery, and so does how you use
taskkill. I'm not wasting time discussing every permutation of args and
their values to cover every way taskkill can be used. Stop hiding.

>> Apparently you profess that you don't use /pid or /im,
>
> You /realy/ have a reading problem, don't you ? I challenge you to quote
> where I said that I dodn't use /im. I'll even go further : quote where I
> mentioned /any/ of taskkill's arguments - *before* you tried to make claims
> to how I did it wrong ofcourse.

Exactly. You deliberately leave obtuse just how you use taskkill, so
others have to guess how you use it. Stop hiding.

>> so how ELSE do you use taskkill?
>
> Kid, your "you're wrong!" only exists because you, on purpose or
> otherwise, change what /has/ being said into something that better
> serves your own goals.

And you're still hiding. Instead of answering on how you use taskkill,
you obfuscate again.

"R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> wrote:

> I asked for an existence. Which /should/ have been simple to answer.
> But obviously not for you...

3 days ago in my first response I said filespec and /p were it for args.

R.Wieser <address@is.invalid> wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I've got a program which generates a wordpad document, which I than open by
> double-clicking it.
>
> The problem is that when the document is open and I re-generate the document
> and double-click it I still see the old contents. To see the new contents I
> have to close the old, still-open document first.
>
> Question:
> Is there a way to override this behaviour using a command-line argument ?
> Even just having two document windows open would be an improvement.

[Judging from the responses: Probably not!]

> remark: I prefer /not/ to use taskkill.

[As you're looking for undocumented behaviour:]

Long shot: Have you tried to see if there is any difference in WordPad
behaviour between doing a 'taskkill /f ...' and doing a taskkill
without /f?

'taskkill /?' says

/F Specifies to forcefully terminate the process(es).

but doesn't say how that differs from a non-/f taskkill.

$WISHFUL THINKING MODE ON

Perhaps without /f, WordPad will do the desired thing and re-read the
file. I.e. similar to what unix programs can do when getting signals
like HUP, INT, USR1, USR2, etc., i.e. do something special, but do not
terminate.

$WISHFUL THINKING MODE OFF

Vanguard,

>> I did not ask you if you *now* can come up with something, I asked
>> you where you did *before* chewing me out over it.
>>
>> ... or did you hope I would not notice what you did ? :-)
>
> See Message-ID <vdvl7tuiv15j.dlg@v.nguard.lh> where I mentioned
> filespec and /p arguments, and only those. I said that 3 days ago.
> That was my first response.

Ah yes, I see it, at the bottom of a post starting with pedantry (I didn't
think you liked that) and other information unrelated to my question. Quite
likely why I didn't finish reading it all of it.

But yes, its there. My apologies for not noticing it.

See, thats how easy it can be to acknowledge a mistake.

>> And by the way, I seem to have found information where you can,
>> from the commandline, select a different printer.
>
> Yep, mentioned the /p arg back in my first response, too.

Alas, there you go again, reading what you want to read, not whats actually
posted.

You don't agree ? Thats simple, show me where you mentioned /selecting a
different printer from wordpads commandline/.

>>> You're going to leave Wordpad windows open indefinitely until
>>> sometime later when you shutdown Windows?
>>
>>: -) You're fishing for reasons to why you can claim I'm wrong, and
>>: than retroactivily put that onto the current case, aren't you ?
>
> And you divert via lambaste by not saying why you need to keep Wordpad
> open between separate runs on your program.

Ah yes, first conjuring up a situation outof thin air, and than when I make
rather clear that I'm not going to humour you in that, you change your tune
and try to make it sound as if you said/ment something quite different.

As for /why/ I do it ? Thats as little your concern as the program I
generate the document with was to J. P. . And yes, you're /still/ fishing
for something you can complain about.

>>> Specifying the PID is one way. Specifying the image name is another,
>>> but takes out all processes with the same image name.
>>
>> I suggest you do that again yourself, and now /actually read/ what it
>> says.
>>
>> Hint : the "/FI" argument.
>
> Which can also specify image name or PID.

:-) Ah yes, trying to divert attention away from you having made a mistake.

Golly, you do not like pedantry when I do it, but you have no problem doing
it yourself (in your first reply, way before I did). And just here you make
it clear you do not like it when (you think) I try to divert attention, but
here you are, doing it yourself !

There is a word for people like you. Hypocrite.

> Have you yet disclosed just how you are running taskkill?
> With which args?

Why would I need to do disclose that ? Its part of the work/around *I*
brewed - before even posting the problem here I might say. You have zero
right to any of it.

> Your "program" remains a mystery,

Good. That way you could not be sidetracked by it either.

> And you're still hiding. Instead of answering on how you use
> taskkill, you obfuscate again.

Lol.

Pray tell, what would, or even /could/ I be hiding in that regard ?

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

Frank,

> Long shot: Have you tried to see if there is any difference in
> WordPad behaviour between doing a 'taskkill /f ...' and doing a
> taskkill without /f?

As a matter of fact, I did. It didn't make a difference - likely because
taskkill first tries to ask nicely, and only if that doesn't work applies
force.

And as wordpad most likely responds to being asked nicely the "force" method
is never used.

> $WISHFUL THINKING MODE ON
>
> Perhaps without /f, WordPad will do the desired thing and re-read
> the file.

Whooo! Yes, thats quite the long shot. :-)

But alas, when I tried that I didn't see that happen.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

"R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> wrote:

> Vanguard,
>
>> R.Wieser wrote:
>>
>>> And by the way, I seem to have found information where you can,
>>> from the commandline, select a different printer.
>>
>> Yep, mentioned the /p arg back in my first response, too.
>
> show me where you mentioned /selecting a different printer from
> wordpads commandline/.

Again, "Yep, mentioned the /p arg back in my first response, too."

If /p doesn't work, try /pt. You "discovered" what was already told to
you before.

> As for /why/ I do it ? Thats as little your concern as the program I
> generate the document with was to J. P. . And yes, you're /still/ fishing
> for something you can complain about.

Oh, we're supposed to come up with a solution to a vague scenario. Your
request was answered days ago: Wordpad has no other arguments than
filespec and /p. Others, and I, tried to provide workarounds. You
chose to stick with your taskkill workaround.

>>> Hint : the "/FI" argument.
>>
>> Which can also specify image name or PID.
>
> Ah yes, trying to divert attention away from you having made a
> mistake.

I made no mistake. No reason to use /FI with a condition testing on PID
or image name versus just using /pid <pid> or /im <imagename>. Go ahead
and make it harder if you want.

The only feature /fi adds is testing on window title, but you still have
not disclosed how you use taskkill to know if that's how you kill, plus
it won't work any better than /im if you keep reopening the same file.

>> Have you yet disclosed just how you are running taskkill?
>> With which args?
>
> Why would I need to do disclose that ?

I gave specifics on how to use taskkill. You kept it a secret.

>> Your "program" remains a mystery,
>
> Good. That way you could not be sidetracked by it either.

Because if you had identified the program, or noted it was a script,
others might've helped you with configuring the program or modifying it
to version by timestamp its output file allowing to both keep a history
of those files, if you chose, along with eliminating the problem with
Wordpad upon which you are fixated.

Wordpad can't be fixed unless you get its code to create NewWordpad with
MDI support, or add a buffer flush command-line arg, or however you wish
it to function. It doesn't have the feature or command-line arguments
you would like it to have. The program might be changed to timestamp
version its output file to eliminate the same-file problem with Wordpad,
but you don't want to look there. Workarounds allow for renaming the
output file, but you don't want those, either. Your use of taskkill is
just another workaround.

I almost forgot :

>> No process can open a file to read or write without first creating
>> (open) a file handle (descriptor) on it.
>
> True.
>
> But what has that to do with what I said in the quote of mine just above
> your response ?

>> "signals that the editor's content were change". That's the dirty bit,
>> change flag, or whatever term you want to use.
>
> Ah yes, that was where you tried to conflate changes of the file and of
> the contents of the editor.
>
> Pray tell, *why* did you come up with the above ? Where did I mention
> that was of any concern to me ? And yes, I expect you to quote it.

>> instead of the miraculous command-line arguments you WISH
>> Wordpad had?
>
> Again, quote where I said that I /wished/, or as you try to make it sound
> like /demanded/ they (multiple?) would be available. Why ?

Your claim of me "obsfucate again" made me wonder if you where not guilty of
that yourself - you're no stranger to hypocrisy - and made me remember that
I asked the above questions but have seen zero response to them.

I expect you explain yourself on the first and provide the quotes showing I
said what you claimed I did for the latter two.

If you again think you should ignore my ... lets call it "request" than I
think we both know what my conclusions will be ...

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

Vanguard,

>> show me where you mentioned /selecting a different printer from
>> from wordpads commandline/.
>
> Again, "Yep, mentioned the /p arg back in my first response, too."

Ah yes, the "/p which is somehow used for printing" there does explain how
to select a different printer adequatily ofcourse. As does your
once-or-twice posted "wordpad [/p] <filespec>". I see, my bad. /s

Kid, you really suck at your game. Maybe honesty will serve you better.

> If /p doesn't work, try /pt.

You can ofcourse quote where you (or anyone else) said that ? No ? Why am
I not surprised ...

> Oh, we're supposed to come up with a solution to a vague scenario.

Lol.

If you think my scenario as described in my initial post is vague than you
no doubt will see blurry on even the clearest days. There are no specs
that will be able to correct it.

> I gave specifics on how to use taskkill. You kept it a secret.

Huh? If you gave the specifics than where/what can the secret be ? You
already know everything. /s

And I distinctly remember having clued you in on the existence of the /FI
argument. So no, you didn't.

Now if you would have been a nice kid and /asked/ for it I /could/ have
decided to provide that information. But now ? Fat chance.

>> Ah yes, trying to divert attention away from you having made a
>> mistake.
>
> I made no mistake. No reason to use /FI with a condition testing on
> PID or image name versus just using /pid <pid> or /im <imagename>.

You're right, there is absolutily no reason to do that. I give you that.

.... The only problem is that I never said that that was what you needed to
do to fix your problem.

So yes, you definitily made a mistake. Multiple even. The biggest one that
you stopped looking for something that /would/ have a reason to be used.
And yes, thats another hint.

> Because if you had identified the program, or noted it was a
> script, others might've helped you with configuring the program

I didn't ask for that. I also was quite clear in stating that I wanted a
generic solution, not one that would be specific to my thanwhile situation.

You wish to refuse to acknowledge and work with that ? Well, thats not my
problem, is it ?

Besides, when I posted my question I indicated that I already had a working
solution. So, your offered help was quite unneeded.

> Wordpad can't be fixed unless you get its code to create NewWordpad
> with MDI support, or add a buffer flush command-line arg, or however
> you wish it to function.

Who said I wanted to fix wordpad itself ? I just wanted a generic solution
applicable to what wordpad does - or rather, /doesn't/ do - when
double-clicking a document file.

> Your use of taskkill is just another workaround.

"Just ? I seem to remember to having said to you that its the one with the
least ammount of side-effects. Shucks, I can't remember you ever having
responded to that. I wonder why ...

But you ofcourse have a better solution ? No, I didn't think so. Ah yes,
that might be the above "why" .... :-)

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

R.Wieser <address@is.invalid> wrote:
> Frank,
>
> > Long shot: Have you tried to see if there is any difference in
> > WordPad behaviour between doing a 'taskkill /f ...' and doing a
> > taskkill without /f?
>
> As a matter of fact, I did. It didn't make a difference - likely because
> taskkill first tries to ask nicely, and only if that doesn't work applies
> force.

It would be nice to know what taskkill actually does, instead of us
having to guess.

> And as wordpad most likely responds to being asked nicely the "force" method
> is never used.

Yep.

> > $WISHFUL THINKING MODE ON
> >
> > Perhaps without /f, WordPad will do the desired thing and re-read
> > the file.
>
> Whooo! Yes, thats quite the long shot. :-)

Well, it's not such a long shot, for the reasons I gave (and you
snipped). If other operating systems can do it, there's no reason
Windows can't do it. But it's all moot/theoretical.

> But alas, when I tried that I didn't see that happen.

To be expected, but worth the try (you already did).

Frank,

> It would be nice to know what taskkill actually does, instead of
> us having to guess.

Indeed. I have a situation where it interferes with the shutting down of a
program, and as I do not know where the wm_close is sent I had to guess.
In the end I wrote a small program which just sends that wm_close to the
programs dialog window.

>> > Perhaps without /f, WordPad will do the desired thing and
>> > re-read the file.
>>
>> Whooo! Yes, thats quite the long shot. :-)
>
> Well, it's not such a long shot, for the reasons I gave (and
> you snipped).

Does Windows support any of those, as I think I recognise, Linux signals ?

> If other operating systems can do it, there's
> no reason Windows can't do it.

True.

But as I read taskkills help and saw nothing indicating it would support
such signals to be send, the reloading effect of whats /supposed/ to be a
"close yourself please" request would be a rather wierd side-effect on
wordpads behalf. Hence my "Whooo!" response.

But in that case, how would you tell taskkill to send a non-forced "close
yourself please" to wordpad ? If available it would than be different than
whats used for every other program, and that makes little logical sense ...

>> But alas, when I tried that I didn't see that happen.
>
> To be expected, but worth the try (you already did).

Trying stuff out, even just to see what happens (and learn from it!) is
never a bad idea - as long as its not on an important
'puter/program/database/etc. ofcourse. :-)

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

R.Wieser <address@is.invalid> wrote:
[...]

> >> > Perhaps without /f, WordPad will do the desired thing and
> >> > re-read the file.
> >>
> >> Whooo! Yes, thats quite the long shot. :-)
> >
> > Well, it's not such a long shot, for the reasons I gave (and
> > you snipped).
>
> Does Windows support any of those, as I think I recognise, Linux signals ?

I don't know. I don't do any Windows programming (only programmed on
UNIX, a little MS-DOS and before that on proprietary HP systems) and
haven't looked into what kind of 'signals' Windows has.

Newer Windows system can have WSL (Windows Subsystem for Linux), but I
don't know if that offers any IPC (Inter Program Communication) between
the Windows and Linux environments.

I have Cygwin - a Linux-like environment - on my Windows system, but
that only knows about other Cygwin processes, not about Windows ones.

> > If other operating systems can do it, there's
> > no reason Windows can't do it.
>
> True.
>
> But as I read taskkills help and saw nothing indicating it would support
> such signals to be send, the reloading effect of whats /supposed/ to be a
> "close yourself please" request would be a rather wierd side-effect on
> wordpads behalf. Hence my "Whooo!" response.
>
> But in that case, how would you tell taskkill to send a non-forced "close
> yourself please" to wordpad ? If available it would than be different than
> whats used for every other program, and that makes little logical sense ...

Yes, taskkill would need to have more than two 'signals', but from
'taskkill /?' it looks it has only these two, not the granularity which
unix/Linux offer.

> >> But alas, when I tried that I didn't see that happen.
> >
> > To be expected, but worth the try (you already did).
>
> Trying stuff out, even just to see what happens (and learn from it!) is
> never a bad idea - as long as its not on an important
> 'puter/program/database/etc. ofcourse. :-)

Frank,

>> Does Windows support any of those, as I think I recognise, Linux
>> signals ?
>
> I don't know. I don't do any Windows programming

I'm always allowing for others knowing more/different stuff than me, but I
do program on Windows and can't remember having ever seen them. Which is
why I snipped them (iow, nothing nefarious).

> Yes, taskkill would need to have more than two 'signals', but
> from 'taskkill /?' it looks it has only these two, not the
> granularity which unix/Linux offer.

More than two methods. On Windows the /F doesn't translate to a signal, but
just kicks the program outof memory (TerminateProcess) using some harsh
methods - AFAIK the same way kill -9 on Linux does it.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

Vanguard,

I see you have decided not to back up your claims to what I and you said. I
can't say I'm surprised.

Kid, don't *ever* try to put words into someones mouth here. Its /way/ to
easy for the other to go back thru the posts and check what was actually
said.

Others may than just (rightfully so) stop responding to you, but I'm a bit
different and instead call you out for it.

And by the way: we had pretty-much the same conversation about 7 months ago.
IOW, you didn't learn from it.

And oh yeah, don't try to /demand/ information from someone. That never
ends well.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser