On 11/12/2023 16:48, Martin Gregorie wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Dec 2023 13:56:53 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>>> - 'firefox' to inspect the page for layout stupidities.
>>>
>> More than that. firefox has a pretty good javascript debugger as well.
>>
> I like firefox a lot, though Brave is my usual browser, as much for its
> built-in ad-killers and website blockers an anything else.
>
>> Also I use the apache error logs to monitor php syntax errors.
>>
> I don't use php much: so far its only been when I've needed to grab user-
> supplied content from a set of related boxes on one of my web-pages and
> add the set to a queue for overnight processing before e-mailing the
> result back to the OP.
>
Whether or not you use it depends on how much interfacing you need to do
with the server side OS and other apps. Likewise Javascript, which gives
you an actively responsive interface in the browser itself, and via AJAX
calls, fast access to changes server side without refreshing the whole
screen.

Example: My heating controller main panel accessed via a bowser needs to
reflect in almost real time what the server side is doing. So it
contains several timed javascript loops that interrogate the local
system time, for a clock display, the server side state machine that
controls the heating zones, and the server side record of the room
thermostats. What the AJAX calls summon depends, but its usually a
short PHP script.
The same goes for the configuration screen where times and temperatures
are setup. I need to do AJAX calls to a system to write config files and
read them back to display on screen.

Other applications I have use mysql databases at the back end and its
pretty hard to access those direct from HTML!

But that is because my bent is towards simulating industrial machine
control panels in a browser. PHP, Javascript. HTML, C and mysql are the
tools that provided the shortest route to that objective.

YMMV.

--
For in reason, all government without the consent of the governed is the
very definition of slavery.

Jonathan Swift

On Tue, 12 Dec 2023 10:10:32 +0000
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> Other applications I have use mysql databases at the back end and its
> pretty hard to access those direct from HTML!

There's SQL injection via CGI query parameters if you're careless
about SQL query construction based on user input - always remember little
Bobby Tables.

https://xkcd.com/327/

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Host: Beautiful Theory meet Inconvenient Fact
Obit: Beautiful Theory died today of factual inconsistency

On 12/12/2023 11:23, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Dec 2023 10:10:32 +0000
> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Other applications I have use mysql databases at the back end and its
>> pretty hard to access those direct from HTML!
>
> There's SQL injection via CGI query parameters if you're careless
> about SQL query construction based on user input - always remember little
> Bobby Tables.
>
> https://xkcd.com/327/
>
Which is precisely why one uses PHP to receive user supplied data and
never be so lazy as to send a full sql update statement - just the data
to be updated.

If a user calls themself 'drop table;' the database will then dutifully
create such a user.

--
The New Left are the people they warned you about.

On Tue, 12 Dec 2023 10:10:32 +0000, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 11/12/2023 16:48, Martin Gregorie wrote:
>> On Mon, 11 Dec 2023 13:56:53 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>>>> - 'firefox' to inspect the page for layout stupidities.
>>>>
>>> More than that. firefox has a pretty good javascript debugger as well.
>>>
>> I like firefox a lot, though Brave is my usual browser, as much for its
>> built-in ad-killers and website blockers an anything else.
>>
>>> Also I use the apache error logs to monitor php syntax errors.
>>>
>> I don't use php much: so far its only been when I've needed to grab user-
>> supplied content from a set of related boxes on one of my web-pages and
>> add the set to a queue for overnight processing before e-mailing the
>> result back to the OP.
>>
> Whether or not you use it depends on how much interfacing you need to do
> with the server side OS and other apps. Likewise Javascript, which gives
> you an actively responsive interface in the browser itself, and via AJAX
> calls, fast access to changes server side without refreshing the whole
> screen.
>
> Example: My heating controller main panel accessed via a bowser needs to
> reflect in almost real time what the server side is doing. So it
> contains several timed javascript loops that interrogate the local
> system time,

I would have been tempted to use Server Sent Events rather than a tight
polling loop.

--
Andy Leighton => andyl@azaal.plus.com
"We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"
- Douglas Adams

On 12/12/2023 18:01, Andy Leighton wrote:
> Server Sent Events

I hadn't known of their existence, I just looked at that and frankly its
barely any different. But they might be a cleaner solution, I agree.

--
Any fool can believe in principles - and most of them do!

-=> On Wed Dec 6 21:00:00 2023, 56g.1173 wrote to The Natural Philosopher <=-

> On 12/6/23 10:53 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> > On 06/12/2023 14:24, Theo wrote:
> >> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> >>> Many people I know would be entirely happy with Wordstar on CP/M and a
> >>> dot matrix printer....Come to think of it a pi Zero with a bit of screen
> >>> added and Joes Own Editor would do that.
> >>
> >> Why use a clone when you can use the original on a Pico :-)
> >> https://kevinboone.me/cpicom.html
> >>
> > No mass storage. No output for an 80x25 style screen. I love my Picos
> > finally, but they cannot even drive a floppy disk.
> >
> >
> > Whereas a Zero can come with an SSD an HDMI attached screen and
> > probably drive a parallel port.
> >
> > In terms of a 'word processing station' I think that is about ideal.
>
>
> Agreed ... but I don't think anybody is going to put up
> with an 80x24 screen anymore.
>
> GUI/WYSIWYG is a lot better. There are a number of medium-power
> word processors that run on Linux and the ubiquitous LibreOffice
> suite adds even more clout. For dirt simple, use Leafpad and friends.
>
> A Pico is a microCONTROLLER ... it's meant for operating "things"
> or being a "thing".
>
> Love microCs but there'd be no point in making a word-processor
> using one. Yea, somewhere there IS a SD-Card library, so you can
> have yer storage, and there IS a serial library so you can pull
> out your beloved serial terminal (or make your own). Even
> Ard Uno's have those libs handy. I even found a TCP stack lib
> and made a (very slow/simple) web server out of one and hung it
> on one of the company's unused domains for a couple of years.
> ASCII-Art "graphics". Now a printer ... find an old Oki rs232
> matrix printer or something so you won't need much for a 'driver'.
>
>
If you want something in between, check out Altairduino. CP/M 2.2 with the
authentic look and feel, but you can also transfer your files on and off. I've
seriously considered using it as a distraction-free writing environment, I
really do like Word-Master.

Also, the Pi 400 is just about the perfect little word
processing/email/internet machine. I love mine for lots of reasons, but when
it's hooked up to the TV even my mom (64 years old) uses it and finds it very
easy to use! So it gets points there too, if you want to share it.

> >> and I'm sure you could do the dot matrix bit with a Pico too:
> >> https://magpi.raspberrypi.com/articles/giant-dot-matrix-printer
> >>
> >
> > all very ingenious, but...I guess a zero running Raspios could drive a
> > modern inkjet or laser printer via USB.
>
True, but where's the fun in that? :P
> --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
> * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway
> (3:770/3)
>
--
Aurelius
Home BBS: aBSiNTHe & Capitol City Online

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