On Sat, 10 Jun 2023 15:43:19 +0100, Vir Campestris wrote:

> All these years later I can't remember the internal names, but the 2950
> was a real product. We had one. As we _were_ ICL that's not a complete
> guide, but google says we weren't alone.

If you are still interested after all these years, I recently gave a
lecture on a 2900 operating system (not VME):

http://emas.bobeager.uk

(link on that page)

--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

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Bob Eager wrote:

> If you are still interested after all these years, I recently gave a
> lecture on a 2900 operating system (not VME):
>
> http://emas.bobeager.uk
>
> (link on that page)

authentication required?

On Tue, 13 Jun 2023 03:01:37 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:

> Bob Eager wrote:
>
>> If you are still interested after all these years, I recently gave a
>> lecture on a 2900 operating system (not VME):
>>
>> http://emas.bobeager.uk
>>
>> (link on that page)
>
> authentication required?

It should be OK except for the 2900 series page, which is under
development. The video on the page I mentioned is the one.

--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

On 13/06/2023 08:47, Bob Eager wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Jun 2023 03:01:37 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> Bob Eager wrote:
>>
>>> If you are still interested after all these years, I recently gave a
>>> lecture on a 2900 operating system (not VME):
>>>
>>> http://emas.bobeager.uk
>>>
>>> (link on that page)
>>
>> authentication required?
>
> It should be OK except for the 2900 series page, which is under
> development. The video on the page I mentioned is the one.
>
I read the slides. Interesting!

Bob, one thing I hate you for. My computer lives in my garden office,
and I have a couple of dead pixels on the screen. Actually not pixels,
they're dead thrips (small bugs) which have crawled in and died.

So when I saw that bug running around in the corner of your web page I
had a moment's panic!

Your summary of VME/K is quote interesting. As you say, ICL started a
project to re-architect it, just as you dropped it. That project
improved the system reliability enormously. Just as it was getting to a
decent standard ICL decided to can the whole OS!

Andy

On Sun, 18 Jun 2023 12:09:18 +0100, Vir Campestris wrote:

> On 13/06/2023 08:47, Bob Eager wrote:
>> On Tue, 13 Jun 2023 03:01:37 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:
>>
>>> Bob Eager wrote:
>>>
>>>> If you are still interested after all these years, I recently gave a
>>>> lecture on a 2900 operating system (not VME):
>>>>
>>>> http://emas.bobeager.uk
>>>>
>>>> (link on that page)
>>>
>>> authentication required?
>>
>> It should be OK except for the 2900 series page, which is under
>> development. The video on the page I mentioned is the one.
>>
> I read the slides. Interesting!
>
> Bob, one thing I hate you for. My computer lives in my garden office,
> and I have a couple of dead pixels on the screen. Actually not pixels,
> they're dead thrips (small bugs) which have crawled in and died.
>
> So when I saw that bug running around in the corner of your web page I
> had a moment's panic!
>
> Your summary of VME/K is quote interesting. As you say, ICL started a
> project to re-architect it, just as you dropped it. That project
> improved the system reliability enormously. Just as it was getting to a
> decent standard ICL decided to can the whole OS!

At that point I think they were spending 35% of their money on R&D, and Ed
Mack was not the most popular guy, I believe.

--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

On 18 Jun 2023, Bob Eager wrote
(in article <kf8fl7F5a4vU5@mid.individual.net>):

> On Sun, 18 Jun 2023 12:09:18 +0100, Vir Campestris wrote:
>
> > On 13/06/2023 08:47, Bob Eager wrote:
> > > On Tue, 13 Jun 2023 03:01:37 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:
> > >
> > > > Bob Eager wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > If you are still interested after all these years, I recently gave a
> > > > > lecture on a 2900 operating system (not VME):
> > > > >
> > > > > http://emas.bobeager.uk
> > > > >
> > > > > (link on that page)
> > > >
> > > > authentication required?
> > >
> > > It should be OK except for the 2900 series page, which is under
> > > development. The video on the page I mentioned is the one.
> > I read the slides. Interesting!
> >
> > Bob, one thing I hate you for. My computer lives in my garden office,
> > and I have a couple of dead pixels on the screen. Actually not pixels,
> > they're dead thrips (small bugs) which have crawled in and died.
> >
> > So when I saw that bug running around in the corner of your web page I
> > had a moment's panic!
> >
> > Your summary of VME/K is quote interesting. As you say, ICL started a
> > project to re-architect it, just as you dropped it. That project
> > improved the system reliability enormously. Just as it was getting to a
> > decent standard ICL decided to can the whole OS!
>
> At that point I think they were spending 35% of their money on R&D, and Ed
> Mack was not the most popular guy, I believe.

He should never have been allowed to have his own private OS,
diverting scarce resources away from other products.

--
Bill Findlay

On Mon, 19 Jun 2023 00:32:59 +0100, Bill Findlay wrote:

> On 18 Jun 2023, Bob Eager wrote (in article
> <kf8fl7F5a4vU5@mid.individual.net>):
>
>> On Sun, 18 Jun 2023 12:09:18 +0100, Vir Campestris wrote:
>>
>> > On 13/06/2023 08:47, Bob Eager wrote:
>> > > On Tue, 13 Jun 2023 03:01:37 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > Bob Eager wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > > If you are still interested after all these years, I recently
>> > > > > gave a lecture on a 2900 operating system (not VME):
>> > > > >
>> > > > > http://emas.bobeager.uk
>> > > > >
>> > > > > (link on that page)
>> > > >
>> > > > authentication required?
>> > >
>> > > It should be OK except for the 2900 series page, which is under
>> > > development. The video on the page I mentioned is the one.
>> > I read the slides. Interesting!
>> >
>> > Bob, one thing I hate you for. My computer lives in my garden office,
>> > and I have a couple of dead pixels on the screen. Actually not
>> > pixels, they're dead thrips (small bugs) which have crawled in and
>> > died.
>> >
>> > So when I saw that bug running around in the corner of your web page
>> > I had a moment's panic!
>> >
>> > Your summary of VME/K is quote interesting. As you say, ICL started a
>> > project to re-architect it, just as you dropped it. That project
>> > improved the system reliability enormously. Just as it was getting to
>> > a decent standard ICL decided to can the whole OS!
>>
>> At that point I think they were spending 35% of their money on R&D, and
>> Ed Mack was not the most popular guy, I believe.
>
> He should never have been allowed to have his own private OS,
> diverting scarce resources away from other products.

The trouble was that the P2 (2960) and the projected 2940 (P1) and 2930
(P0) were too weak for VME/B at the time. Even the revised 2930 (S0)
wouldn't have worked.

But Mack certainly had too much power.

--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

On 19/06/2023 09:41, Bob Eager wrote:
> The trouble was that the P2 (2960) and the projected 2940 (P1) and 2930
> (P0) were too weak for VME/B at the time. Even the revised 2930 (S0)
> wouldn't have worked.
>
The rumour I heard was than when they put "VME/2900" (renamed VME/B) on
the K sites it was supposed to need 1MB of extra RAM, and that was all.

The couldn't switch all sites to K because of a few odd things like DAPs.

And it turned out to be double the RAM (which was 1MB on most sites) but
more critically an extra 10% of CPU.

The rumour also said that it was somebody from the B project who wrote
the report!

> But Mack certainly had too much power.

I know the name, but I think he might predate me.

Andy

On Tue, 20 Jun 2023 12:38:45 +0100, Vir Campestris wrote:

> On 19/06/2023 09:41, Bob Eager wrote:
>> The trouble was that the P2 (2960) and the projected 2940 (P1) and 2930
>> (P0) were too weak for VME/B at the time. Even the revised 2930 (S0)
>> wouldn't have worked.
>>
> The rumour I heard was than when they put "VME/2900" (renamed VME/B) on
> the K sites it was supposed to need 1MB of extra RAM, and that was all.

I think by that time it was considerably faster. The early tests at
Edinburgh showed it supporting a tiny MAC load on a 2970. God knows what
it would have been like on a 2960.

As it was, ICL gave us another 2MB of RAM, and we sourced a second OCP
(but if you've read the slides, I think they said that).

> The couldn't switch all sites to K because of a few odd things like
> DAPs.

Indeed. The DAP was quite good; they had some at Edinburgh, on EMAS.

>> But Mack certainly had too much power.
>
> I know the name, but I think he might predate me.

Ed Mack was ejected at the same time that VME/K was killed.

--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

On 20/06/2023 12:38, Vir Campestris wrote:
> On 19/06/2023 09:41, Bob Eager wrote:
>> The trouble was that the P2 (2960) and the projected 2940 (P1) and 2930
>> (P0) were too weak for VME/B at the time. Even the revised 2930 (S0)
>> wouldn't have worked.
> The rumour I heard was than when they put "VME/2900" (renamed VME/B) on
> the K sites it was supposed to need 1MB of extra RAM, and that was all.
> The couldn't switch all sites to K because of a few odd things like DAPs.
> And it turned out to be double the RAM (which was 1MB on most sites) but
> more critically an extra 10% of CPU.
> The rumour also said that it was somebody from the B project who wrote
> the report!
>> But Mack certainly had too much power.
> I know the name, but I think he might predate me.

The urban legend was that 1900 was the year that the hardware
was designed and that 2900 is he year that the software will be ready.

1970 - 71 2nd year electronics at Essex, the PDP8 and the 1900 were the
two examples of computer design that we studied.

ISTR the textbook Digital Computer Design by F G Heath described the
architecture of the 1900.