On Mon, 18 Mar 2024 23:29:07 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:

>Also theguardian is a socialist newspaper so they will only harp on the
>green agenda and won't let facts come in the way.

"The Guardian generally falls on the center-left side of the political
spectrum." (Wiki)

"The Guardian has historically been linked to the Labour Party and the
Liberal Democrats, both centrist or center-left parties in British
politics" (Wiki)

Just a little correction of this madman's psychobabble :)

On 2024-03-18 6:20 p.m., D wrote:
>
>
> On Mon, 18 Mar 2024, cshenk wrote:
>

>> Grin but some people believe it which is sad.
>>
>
> True. That is very sad. =( I feel even more sad when I see in the news
> that young children are sent to therapy for climate fear. It's
> terrifying that the media should be allowed to hurt young children that way.

I am not denying climate change, but it's been changing for years. I
live in the middle of the Niagara Peninsula and the land I live on in
sandy loam. Just to the north of me is the Fonthill Kame, a massivee
deposit of sand and gravel that was left here by the glaciers from the
Ice Age which ended about 15,000 years ago. The polar ice cap been
receding every since.

D wrote:

> On Mon, 18 Mar 2024, Dave Smith wrote:

>> On 2024-03-18 3:07 p.m., cshenk wrote:
>>> Ed P wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 3/17/2024 6:18 PM, D wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 17 Mar 2024, cshenk wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Dave Smith wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2024-03-17 6:41 a.m., D wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sat, 16 Mar 2024, heyjoe wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> D wrote :
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hah, far from it! Reasonable care about the environment I
>>>>>>>>>> have nothing against, but climate change has reached
>>>>>>>>>> levels of mass hysteria.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> What is sad is that the politicians (who are flying
>>>>>>>>>> around in private jets btw.) have lost all connection
>>>>>>>>>> with the people in europe, and are literally talking
>>>>>>>>>> about crushing the livelihood of farmers.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The climate hysteria isn't limited to Europe.  New York
>>>>>>>>> City will soon be cracking down on businesses that use wood
>>>>>>>>> fired or coal fired ovens.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>> https://www.nysun.com/article/uproar-as-new-york-approves-rule-cracking-down-on-wood-fired-pizzerias-forcing-them-to-spend-big-to-reduce-emissions
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sad... I won't be moving to New York City, that's for sure.
>>>>>>>> ;) In sweden, when visiting, at least I can still light a
>>>>>>>> fire in the fire place of my apartment. I spoke with a german
>>>>>>>> colleague the other day and apparently that is illegal in
>>>>>>>> germany, but many people who live in the country side do it
>>>>>>>> anyway.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Completely absurd!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Frankly, with all the concern about climate change and carbon
>>>>>>> emissions, I am surprised that there are not a lot more
>>>>>>> restrictions on burning wood in fireplaces or heating homes
>>>>>>> with wood stoves.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Fact is the wood burning fireplace fears aren't even a drop in a
>>>>>> bucket compared to the wildfires.  There are an estimated 500,000
>>>>>> homes with functional wood fireplaces in use.  They burn an
>>>>>> average of a 30 foot tree a year.  We have triple that
>>>>>> environmental effect in 1 small California wildfire.  The
>>>>>> emmisions from a single car dwarf a single wood burning fireplace.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Tut, tut, don't come with arguments! Remember that for climate
>>>>> change hysterics it's all about sacrifice in order for the
>>>>> politicians to save your soul! ;)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Pollution in some towns from wood burning is a health hazard. There
>>>> are alternatives. Do you think it is ok to have pollution? Lung and
>>>> breathing problems from it?
>>>
>>> Compare it to a car. A single car produces FAR more pollution than any
>>> fireplace will. Lets ignore the 18 wheelers all over the place.
>>>
>>> Yes, it's worth it in comparison.
>>
>>
>> There is one snag there. It is not even close to true. A German article
>> reported that fireplaces caused more emissions than all the cars combined.
>> Car emissions there totalled 6,800 tonnes of emissions while fire places
>> cause 18,600 tonnes.
>>
>> https://www.green-zones.eu/en/blog-news/heating-with-wood-more-harmful-than-car-exhaust-fumes
>> "
>> “Ecodesign” wood burning stoves produce 450 times more toxic air pollution
>> than gas central heating, according to new data published in a report from
>> Prof Chris Whitty, the chief medical officer for England.
>>
>> Older stoves, now banned from sale, produce 3,700 times more, while electric
>> heating produces none, the report said."
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/dec/08/eco-wood-burners-produce-450-times-more-pollution-than-gas-heating-report
>>

> We're talking fire places here, not wood burners heating 24/7. In
> countries where fire places are used for heating 24/7 usually eco burners
> are too expensive and the people would prefer living to being dead.

> Also theguardian is a socialist newspaper so they will only harp on the
> green agenda and won't let facts come in the way.

> Finally, you can, if you like, there's plenty of modern wood burning
> systems that are perfectly environmentally friendly. Especially with added
> ackumulatortanks (or what ever the english word for it is).

More Than 30% of Homes Heated With Wood In Some Counties

February 26, 2018

https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2018/02/who-knew-wood-burning-fuel.html

"Baby, it’s cold outside! While the majority of U.S. households are heated by electricity (38.7 percent) or utility gas (48.1 percent), 1.9 percent rely on wood for heat.

See below for a list of counties with populations of 65,000 or greater that rank among the highest using wood for home heating; these are overwhelmingly in the West/Southwest..."

Some WIKI hits from "wood as fuel in the us"

"Are there wood burning power plants?

An example of a biomass facility is the Wheelabrator Shasta power plant in California. It is one of the most modern independent wood-fired power plants. The 49 MW (net) plant processes 750,000 tons of mill waste and forest residues from Shasta County and surrounding areas..."

"Approximately 1.8 million US households use wood as their primary fuel source, according to data from the American Community Survey.Jan 25, 2023..."

"wood as fuel in Canada"

"Wood pellets are made of ground and compressed wood fiber (usually from sawmill waste) and can be burned in a variety of ways to produce energy. Nearly 85% of Canada's pellet production, which is equivalent to approximately 1.3 million t, is exported (less than 1% of Canada's forest sector exports by value)..."

Which country uses the most wood pellets?

The United Kingdom

The United Kingdom is the largest importer of wood pellets in the world. In 2021, the UK imported over nine million metric tons of such products. Raw materials used for wood pellets include sawdust shavings as well as residue from chips, whole logs, and wood products.Mar 11, 2024..."

--
GM

On 2024-03-18 6:22 p.m., D wrote:
>

> And let's remember that forest fires is a natural phenomenon that is
> actually _good_ for the forest. So no need to be afraid of a warm, nice
> and beautiful fire in the fireplace during winter. =)
>
> Where I have my country house there so many trees around that you can
> always go to the next neighbour or farmer and they'll almost thank you
> for taking it back home.
>
> Only negative is that it's mostly pine, which is of course not optimal
> for the fireplace if you use it in high quantities.

It could be worse. One of the trees I lost was a Larch. Once that stuff
tries dries out it weights about 1/3 as much as pine. Then there is the
oak tree that fell down across my wife's waling trail. The trunk was
about 12" in diameter and hard as a rock. I dulled the blade on my chain
saw cutting a dozen logs from that one.

On 3/18/2024 6:41 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2024-03-18 6:20 p.m., D wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 18 Mar 2024, cshenk wrote:
>>
>
>>> Grin but some people believe it which is sad.
>>>
>>
>> True. That is very sad. =( I feel even more sad when I see in the news
>> that young children are sent to therapy for climate fear. It's
>> terrifying that the media should be allowed to hurt young children
>> that way.
>
> I am not denying climate change, but it's been changing for years. I
> live in the middle of the Niagara Peninsula and the land I live on in
> sandy loam. Just to the north of me is the Fonthill Kame, a massivee
> deposit of sand and gravel that was left here by the glaciers from the
> Ice Age which ended about 15,000 years ago. The polar ice cap been
> receding every since.

Burning 100 million tons of fuel every day can't hurt anything can it?

On 2024-03-18, Bruce <Bruce@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Mar 2024 23:29:07 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>
>>Also theguardian is a socialist newspaper so they will only harp on the
>>green agenda and won't let facts come in the way.
>
> "The Guardian generally falls on the center-left side of the political
> spectrum." (Wiki)
>
> "The Guardian has historically been linked to the Labour Party and the
> Liberal Democrats, both centrist or center-left parties in British
> politics" (Wiki)
>
> Just a little correction of this madman's psychobabble :)

I think D should move to the southern U.S. He'd fit right in with
everybody else who don't know what socialism is.

--
Cindy Hamilton

On 2024-03-18, Dave Smith <adavid.smith@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> On 2024-03-18 6:20 p.m., D wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 18 Mar 2024, cshenk wrote:
>>
>
>>> Grin but some people believe it which is sad.
>>>
>>
>> True. That is very sad. =( I feel even more sad when I see in the news
>> that young children are sent to therapy for climate fear. It's
>> terrifying that the media should be allowed to hurt young children that way.
>
> I am not denying climate change, but it's been changing for years. I
> live in the middle of the Niagara Peninsula and the land I live on in
> sandy loam. Just to the north of me is the Fonthill Kame, a massivee
> deposit of sand and gravel that was left here by the glaciers from the
> Ice Age which ended about 15,000 years ago. The polar ice cap been
> receding every since.

Yep. What is the rate of change of the rate of change? Constant?
Positive? Negative?

--
Cindy Hamilton

On 19 Mar 2024 08:34:49 GMT, Cindy Hamilton <hamilton@invalid.com>
wrote:

>On 2024-03-18, Bruce <Bruce@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On Mon, 18 Mar 2024 23:29:07 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>>
>>>Also theguardian is a socialist newspaper so they will only harp on the
>>>green agenda and won't let facts come in the way.
>>
>> "The Guardian generally falls on the center-left side of the political
>> spectrum." (Wiki)
>>
>> "The Guardian has historically been linked to the Labour Party and the
>> Liberal Democrats, both centrist or center-left parties in British
>> politics" (Wiki)
>>
>> Just a little correction of this madman's psychobabble :)
>
>I think D should move to the southern U.S. He'd fit right in with
>everybody else who don't know what socialism is.

Yes, they seem to think that socialism means "everything I don't
like".

On Tue, 19 Mar 2024, Bruce wrote:

> On Mon, 18 Mar 2024 23:29:07 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>
>> Also theguardian is a socialist newspaper so they will only harp on the
>> green agenda and won't let facts come in the way.
>
> "The Guardian generally falls on the center-left side of the political
> spectrum." (Wiki)
>
> "The Guardian has historically been linked to the Labour Party and the
> Liberal Democrats, both centrist or center-left parties in British
> politics" (Wiki)
>
> Just a little correction of this madman's psychobabble :)
>
Thank you for the confirmation Bruce. Are you joining us freedom lovers?
=)

On Mon, 18 Mar 2024, Dave Smith wrote:

> On 2024-03-18 6:22 p.m., D wrote:
>>
>
>> And let's remember that forest fires is a natural phenomenon that is
>> actually _good_ for the forest. So no need to be afraid of a warm, nice and
>> beautiful fire in the fireplace during winter. =)
>>
>> Where I have my country house there so many trees around that you can
>> always go to the next neighbour or farmer and they'll almost thank you for
>> taking it back home.
>>
>> Only negative is that it's mostly pine, which is of course not optimal for
>> the fireplace if you use it in high quantities.
>
> It could be worse. One of the trees I lost was a Larch. Once that stuff tries
> dries out it weights about 1/3 as much as pine. Then there is the oak tree
> that fell down across my wife's waling trail. The trunk was about 12" in
> diameter and hard as a rock. I dulled the blade on my chain saw cutting a
> dozen logs from that one.
>

Oak? Maybe you could have sold that one to a carpenter for some good cash!
=)

On Tue, 19 Mar 2024, Cindy Hamilton wrote:

> On 2024-03-18, Bruce <Bruce@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On Mon, 18 Mar 2024 23:29:07 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Also theguardian is a socialist newspaper so they will only harp on the
>>> green agenda and won't let facts come in the way.
>>
>> "The Guardian generally falls on the center-left side of the political
>> spectrum." (Wiki)
>>
>> "The Guardian has historically been linked to the Labour Party and the
>> Liberal Democrats, both centrist or center-left parties in British
>> politics" (Wiki)
>>
>> Just a little correction of this madman's psychobabble :)
>
> I think D should move to the southern U.S. He'd fit right in with
> everybody else who don't know what socialism is.

Thank you Cindy, I grew up in a country with 102% marginal tax rates. I
know very well the hideous face of socialism, thank you very much.

I'd argue instead that most, if not all, here do _not_ know the true face
of socialism, and that is why you are so apologetic about the lefts
attempts to force it onto people.

In a way I understand you. It sounds great... "let the state fix
everything, the state is good". But take it from me and the 100 of
millions of where killed by socialism, it is a very bad idea.

D wrote:

> On Tue, 19 Mar 2024, Cindy Hamilton wrote:

>> On 2024-03-18, Bruce <Bruce@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 18 Mar 2024 23:29:07 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Also theguardian is a socialist newspaper so they will only harp on the
>>>> green agenda and won't let facts come in the way.
>>>
>>> "The Guardian generally falls on the center-left side of the political
>>> spectrum." (Wiki)
>>>
>>> "The Guardian has historically been linked to the Labour Party and the
>>> Liberal Democrats, both centrist or center-left parties in British
>>> politics" (Wiki)
>>>
>>> Just a little correction of this madman's psychobabble :)
>>
>> I think D should move to the southern U.S. He'd fit right in with
>> everybody else who don't know what socialism is.

> Thank you Cindy, I grew up in a country with 102% marginal tax rates. I
> know very well the hideous face of socialism, thank you very much.

> I'd argue instead that most, if not all, here do _not_ know the true face
> of socialism, and that is why you are so apologetic about the lefts
> attempts to force it onto people.

> In a way I understand you. It sounds great... "let the state fix
> everything, the state is good". But take it from me and the 100 of
> millions of where killed by socialism, it is a very bad idea.

Here in the modern West, "socialism" is the "modern" and "soft" type - all dressed up in the pretty colours of "consumer choice", high technology, and the like...

It's not the drab and dreary old socialism of the DDR or the old USSR - but the desired "end results" - the stifling of all opposition - are still similar... and these "end results" are greatly desired by the mainstream (aka "regime") media, most all of education, much government, the US democratic party and its "allies", etc....

I had to take part once in a "DEI" training for work several years ago. When I told the instructor, "You are teaching straight from Marx", she didn't even know who Marx was, lol...

[ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diversity,_equity,_and_inclusion

"Diversity, equity, and inclusion (usually abbreviated DEI) are organizational frameworks which seek to promote "the fair treatment and full participation of all people", particularly groups "who have historically been underrepresented or subject to discrimination" on the basis of identity or disability. These three notions (diversity, equity, and inclusion) together represent "three closely linked values" which organizations seek to institutionalize through DEI frameworks... ]

PS: Cindy Hamilton has apparently *greatly* "lowered her standards", seeing she was quoting Miss Bruce on an "ideological point", lol...!!!

;-)

--
GM

On Tue, 19 Mar 2024, GM wrote:

> D wrote:
>
>
>
>> On Tue, 19 Mar 2024, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>
>>> On 2024-03-18, Bruce <Bruce@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 18 Mar 2024 23:29:07 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Also theguardian is a socialist newspaper so they will only harp on the
>>>>> green agenda and won't let facts come in the way.
>>>>
>>>> "The Guardian generally falls on the center-left side of the political
>>>> spectrum." (Wiki)
>>>>
>>>> "The Guardian has historically been linked to the Labour Party and the
>>>> Liberal Democrats, both centrist or center-left parties in British
>>>> politics" (Wiki)
>>>>
>>>> Just a little correction of this madman's psychobabble :)
>>>
>>> I think D should move to the southern U.S. He'd fit right in with
>>> everybody else who don't know what socialism is.
>
>> Thank you Cindy, I grew up in a country with 102% marginal tax rates. I
>> know very well the hideous face of socialism, thank you very much.
>
>> I'd argue instead that most, if not all, here do _not_ know the true face
>> of socialism, and that is why you are so apologetic about the lefts
>> attempts to force it onto people.
>
>> In a way I understand you. It sounds great... "let the state fix
>> everything, the state is good". But take it from me and the 100 of millions
>> of where killed by socialism, it is a very bad idea.
>
>
> Here in the modern West, "socialism" is the "modern" and "soft" type - all
> dressed up in the pretty colours of "consumer choice", high technology, and
> the like...
>
> It's not the drab and dreary old socialism of the DDR or the old USSR - but
> the desired "end results" - the stifling of all opposition - are still
> similar... and these "end results" are greatly desired by the mainstream (aka
> "regime") media, most all of education, much government, the US democratic
> party and its "allies", etc....
>
> I had to take part once in a "DEI" training for work several years ago. When
> I told the instructor, "You are teaching straight from Marx", she didn't even
> know who Marx was, lol...
>
> [ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diversity,_equity,_and_inclusion
> "Diversity, equity, and inclusion (usually abbreviated DEI) are
> organizational frameworks which seek to promote "the fair treatment and full
> participation of all people", particularly groups "who have historically been
> underrepresented or subject to discrimination" on the basis of identity or
> disability. These three notions (diversity, equity, and inclusion) together
> represent "three closely linked values" which organizations seek to
> institutionalize through DEI frameworks... ]
>
> PS: Cindy Hamilton has apparently *greatly* "lowered her standards", seeing
> she was quoting Miss Bruce on an "ideological point", lol...!!!
>
> ;-)

DEI-training? Jesus Christ! I'm happy I left global corporations before
that became common. I don't think I would be able to stand it.

I was once doing some consulting work for the mgmt of an IT-company, and
every time they started to harp about gender, I adviced them that it was
extremely offensive to only focus on one axle of the diversity spectrum
and that they should hire more female moslems.

They then complained that it was so difficult to find, and that kind of
proved my point. ;) (I doubt they got the point and that I was just
joking, but that at least added to my enjoyment of it)

Sadly in the end they disregarded my advice, and about 1 year later they
had to fire about 25% of the "diverse" part of the company to cut the cost
since they lost too much money on woke BS. Kind of serves them right. ;)

On 2024-03-19 4:35 a.m., Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On 2024-03-18, Dave Smith <adavid.smith@sympatico.ca> wrote:

>> I am not denying climate change, but it's been changing for years. I
>> live in the middle of the Niagara Peninsula and the land I live on in
>> sandy loam. Just to the north of me is the Fonthill Kame, a massivee
>> deposit of sand and gravel that was left here by the glaciers from the
>> Ice Age which ended about 15,000 years ago. The polar ice cap been
>> receding every since.
>
> Yep. What is the rate of change of the rate of change? Constant?
> Positive? Negative?

Good question. I am not sure. I was not good enough at math to be able
to explain it in terms that a mathematician would instantly see but I
know that if a large if you fill a very large funnel with sand and let
it empty the sand will flow at a constant rate the level will drop at an
ever increasing rate. The rate of flow is constant but as the diameter
decreases that the rate of change of the depth increases.

A similar thing is happening with the ice caps. They used to extend down
to what is now the Great Lakes. A gradual melting saw them recede
slowly. As they melted and moved back the diameter decreased. The same
rate of melting would lead to an increase in the rate of recession.

On 2024-03-19 5:44 a.m., D wrote:
>
>> It could be worse. One of the trees I lost was a Larch. Once that
>> stuff tries dries out it weights about 1/3 as much as pine. Then there
>> is the oak tree that fell down across my wife's waling trail. The
>> trunk was about 12" in diameter and hard as a rock. I dulled the blade
>> on my chain saw cutting a dozen logs from that one.
>>
>
> Oak? Maybe you could have sold that one to a carpenter for some good
> cash! =)

That is a thought, but it was not my land. The owner has given us
permission to walk back there and to keep the trails clear. It would be
an abuse of his courtesy to be selling his trees. Besides, I don't have
the equipment I would need to drag it out of there.

I have a friend who has a substantial woodlot. He came home for lunch
one day and heard chainsaws in this bush. He went back to check it out
and found a couple guys felling oak trees. They claimed that it was
their grandfather's property and he had given them permission to cut
some oaks to get boards for a winery tasting room they were building.
They were confused about the property line but it is uncertain whether
or not they genuinely misunderstood or if they figured they could get
away with it. If my friend had not gone home for lunch when he did he
would have been unaware.

On 2024-03-19 5:47 a.m., D wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, 19 Mar 2024, Cindy Hamilton wrote:

>> I think D should move to the southern U.S.  He'd fit right in with
>> everybody else who don't know what socialism is.
>
> Thank you Cindy, I grew up in a country with 102% marginal tax rates. I
> know very well the hideous face of socialism, thank you very much.
>
> I'd argue instead that most, if not all, here do _not_ know the true
> face of socialism, and that is why you are so apologetic about the lefts
> attempts to force it onto people.

The first time I went to Denmark I was stunned to hear that the sales
tax on new cars was 180%. I had been picked up at the airport by a
friend who had a new car. He said he paid for three cars but only got
one. Apparently the rate has dropped to about 150%.

>
> In a way I understand you. It sounds great... "let the state fix
> everything, the state is good". But take it from me and the 100 of
> millions of where killed by socialism, it is a very bad idea.

> Yep. What is the rate of change of the rate of change?

Jerk. I don't know if it is 'official' but that is what
we called (d4 X / d4 t) in 'Classical Mechanics'.

I don't know what comes next.

Cindy Hamilton wrote:
....
> Yep. What is the rate of change of the rate of change? Constant?
> Positive? Negative?

if you look at the charts generated from ice-core samples over
the past severaal million years you get a sense of how it can
go. what is happening now is not good.

stick your heads in holes in the ground and practice all
the denial you want but i sure hope we can pull back on
what we're doing now. alas, doesn't look like people are
caring enough so in the end the future is going to be much
harder for people (and if you understand compound interest
and what it takes to turn that around you wouldn't be so
complacent).

songbird

On 2024-03-19 6:48 a.m., Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2024-03-19 5:44 a.m., D wrote:
>>
>>> It could be worse. One of the trees I lost was a Larch. Once that
>>> stuff tries dries out it weights about 1/3 as much as pine. Then
>>> there is the oak tree that fell down across my wife's waling trail.
>>> The trunk was about 12" in diameter and hard as a rock. I dulled the
>>> blade on my chain saw cutting a dozen logs from that one.
>>>
>>
>> Oak? Maybe you could have sold that one to a carpenter for some good
>> cash! =)
>
> That is a thought, but it was not my land. The owner has given us
> permission to walk back there and to keep the trails clear. It would be
> an abuse of his courtesy to be selling his trees. Besides, I don't have
> the equipment I would need to drag it out of there.
>
> I have a friend who has a substantial woodlot. He came home for lunch
> one day and heard chainsaws in this bush. He went back to check it out
> and found a couple guys felling oak trees. They claimed that it was
> their grandfather's property and he had given them permission to cut
> some oaks to get boards for a winery tasting room they were building.
> They were confused about the property line but it is uncertain whether
> or not they genuinely misunderstood or if they figured they could get
> away with it. If my friend had not gone home for lunch when he did he
> would have been unaware.
>
It's awful wood to turn. I tried rough turning and drying some oak
when neighbour cut down their tree. Never again.

On 2024-03-19, Dave Smith wrote:

> Good question. I am not sure. I was not good enough at math to be able
> to explain it in terms that a mathematician would instantly see but I
> know that if a large if you fill a very large funnel with sand and let
> it empty the sand will flow at a constant rate the level will drop at an
> ever increasing rate. The rate of flow is constant but as the diameter
> decreases that the rate of change of the depth increases.

There are many factors:

The volume of sand left is proportional to the cube of the
height (or max width) of the cone of remaining sand. Thus even
with a constant flow, the 'speed' if the cone base increases.

With less pressure at the bottom, friction within the sand decreases.

The flow is not compressable, but is also not incompressable, thus
we cannot use the standard flow equations.

> A similar thing is happening with the ice caps.

It is hideously more complicated. Any pat observations
on first or even second derivatives is mere hand-waving.

Plus calculations need to be done in spherical coordinates.

On 2024-03-19 3:29 a.m., Bruce wrote:
> On 19 Mar 2024 08:34:49 GMT, Cindy Hamilton <hamilton@invalid.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2024-03-18, Bruce <Bruce@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 18 Mar 2024 23:29:07 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Also theguardian is a socialist newspaper so they will only harp on the
>>>> green agenda and won't let facts come in the way.
>>>
>>> "The Guardian generally falls on the center-left side of the political
>>> spectrum." (Wiki)
>>>
>>> "The Guardian has historically been linked to the Labour Party and the
>>> Liberal Democrats, both centrist or center-left parties in British
>>> politics" (Wiki)
>>>
>>> Just a little correction of this madman's psychobabble :)
>>
>> I think D should move to the southern U.S. He'd fit right in with
>> everybody else who don't know what socialism is.
>
> Yes, they seem to think that socialism means "everything I don't
> like".

Anything progressive is labelled "socialist" by so many USians.
Those MAGA louts seem content to vote for a party intent on taking
society back to the Nineteenth Century.

On 2024-03-19, Mike Duffy <mxduffy@bell.net> wrote:
> On 2024-03-19, Dave Smith wrote:
>
>> Good question. I am not sure. I was not good enough at math to be able
>> to explain it in terms that a mathematician would instantly see but I
>> know that if a large if you fill a very large funnel with sand and let
>> it empty the sand will flow at a constant rate the level will drop at an
>> ever increasing rate. The rate of flow is constant but as the diameter
>> decreases that the rate of change of the depth increases.
>
> There are many factors:
>
> The volume of sand left is proportional to the cube of the
> height (or max width) of the cone of remaining sand. Thus even
> with a constant flow, the 'speed' if the cone base increases.
>
> With less pressure at the bottom, friction within the sand decreases.
>
> The flow is not compressable, but is also not incompressable, thus
> we cannot use the standard flow equations.
>
>
>> A similar thing is happening with the ice caps.
>
> It is hideously more complicated. Any pat observations
> on first or even second derivatives is mere hand-waving.
>
> Plus calculations need to be done in spherical coordinates.

Humans have a regrettable tendency to apply linear techniques
to non-linear systems.

--
Cindy Hamilton

On 2024-03-19 10:03 a.m., Mike Duffy wrote:
> On 2024-03-19, Dave Smith wrote:
>
>> Good question. I am not sure. I was not good enough at math to be able
>> to explain it in terms that a mathematician would instantly see but I
>> know that if a large if you fill a very large funnel with sand and let
>> it empty the sand will flow at a constant rate the level will drop at an
>> ever increasing rate. The rate of flow is constant but as the diameter
>> decreases that the rate of change of the depth increases.
>
> There are many factors:
>
> The volume of sand left is proportional to the cube of the
> height (or max width) of the cone of remaining sand. Thus even
> with a constant flow, the 'speed' if the cone base increases.
>
> With less pressure at the bottom, friction within the sand decreases.
>
> The flow is not compressable, but is also not incompressable, thus
> we cannot use the standard flow equations.
>
>
>> A similar thing is happening with the ice caps.
>
> It is hideously more complicated. Any pat observations
> on first or even second derivatives is mere hand-waving.
>
> Plus calculations need to be done in spherical coordinates.
>

Okay that Mr. Smarty Pants. Do the inverse. Instead of emptying a big
cone use a big conveyor belt with a hopper at the bottom and use a
loader to fill the hopper (to provide a constant feed), and make a pile
of sand. The height of the pile will initially increase rapidly, but as
it gets higher and the diameter at the base increases, the rate of
increase in height slows. This is the opposite.

On Tue, 19 Mar 2024, Dave Smith wrote:

> On 2024-03-19 5:44 a.m., D wrote:
>>
>>> It could be worse. One of the trees I lost was a Larch. Once that stuff
>>> tries dries out it weights about 1/3 as much as pine. Then there is the
>>> oak tree that fell down across my wife's waling trail. The trunk was about
>>> 12" in diameter and hard as a rock. I dulled the blade on my chain saw
>>> cutting a dozen logs from that one.
>>>
>>
>> Oak? Maybe you could have sold that one to a carpenter for some good cash!
>> =)
>
> That is a thought, but it was not my land. The owner has given us permission
> to walk back there and to keep the trails clear. It would be an abuse of his
> courtesy to be selling his trees. Besides, I don't have the equipment I would
> need to drag it out of there.

Ah, makes perfect sense.

> I have a friend who has a substantial woodlot. He came home for lunch one day
> and heard chainsaws in this bush. He went back to check it out and found a
> couple guys felling oak trees. They claimed that it was their grandfather's
> property and he had given them permission to cut some oaks to get boards for
> a winery tasting room they were building. They were confused about the
> property line but it is uncertain whether or not they genuinely misunderstood
> or if they figured they could get away with it. If my friend had not gone
> home for lunch when he did he would have been unaware.

Jesus! How did they repay the damage? That reminds me... many years ago
they planted new trees along the water line on a street in Stockholm and
apparently someone didn't like what it did to his view, so he poisoned the
trees at night.

Don't remember if they caught the guy or not.

On Tue, 19 Mar 2024, Dave Smith wrote:

> On 2024-03-19 5:47 a.m., D wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 19 Mar 2024, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>
>>> I think D should move to the southern U.S.  He'd fit right in with
>>> everybody else who don't know what socialism is.
>>
>> Thank you Cindy, I grew up in a country with 102% marginal tax rates. I
>> know very well the hideous face of socialism, thank you very much.
>>
>> I'd argue instead that most, if not all, here do _not_ know the true face
>> of socialism, and that is why you are so apologetic about the lefts
>> attempts to force it onto people.
>
> The first time I went to Denmark I was stunned to hear that the sales tax on
> new cars was 180%. I had been picked up at the airport by a friend who had a
> new car. He said he paid for three cars but only got one. Apparently the
> rate has dropped to about 150%.
>

Yep. Same in Singapore, I think they have a system where the government
basically more or less bans you from owning a car with the "fig leaf" of
choice despite the ridiculous taxes. Classic socialism. The government
dictates and the servant obeys.

>
>>
>> In a way I understand you. It sounds great... "let the state fix
>> everything, the state is good". But take it from me and the 100 of millions
>> of where killed by socialism, it is a very bad idea.
>
>