On Thursday, November 9, 2023 at 8:59:49 PM UTC+5:30, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> On Thursday, November 9, 2023 at 2:33:35 AM UTC-7, arthurvv vart wrote:
> > 1) How did you not win that game?
> > 2) How didn't you win that game?
> > 3) How could you not win that game?
> > 4) How couldn't you win that game?
> >
> 1 and 3 are normal in colloquial AmE. 2 and 4 sound odd to me, though
> you could probably find examples or see them in ngram results.
>
Why is it that all 4 are normal when starting with Why but only 2 are
normal when starting with How?
1) Why did you not win that game?
2) Why didn't you win that game?
3) Why could you not win that game?
4) Why couldn't you win that game?

On 2023-11-10 18:55, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 11/11/23 02:43, lar3ryca wrote:
>> On 2023-11-10 00:23, Hibou wrote:
>
>>> Without the emphasis, (3) in particular could be a vanilla question.
>>>
>>> (Vanilla as ordinary. I'm aware that some love vanilla and don't think
>>> it at all ordinary.)
>>
>> Ordinary it is not, but unfortunately it's one of the three most common
>> flavours, even to the extent that many vendors sell only chocolate,
>> vanilla, and strawberry.
>
> WIWAL my favourite flavour was Nealopitain.

Ever since I tasted licorice ice cream, it's been my favourite.

--
I took the shell off of my racing snail, thinking it would make him
faster, but if anything, it made him more sluggish.

On 2023-11-10 23:37:23 +0000, Paul Wolff said:

> On Fri, 10 Nov 2023, at 13:30:26, Rich Ulrich posted:
>> On Fri, 10 Nov 2023 09:43:44 -0600, lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2023-11-10 00:23, Hibou wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>
>>>> (Vanilla as ordinary. I'm aware that some love vanilla and don't think
>>>> it at all ordinary.)
>>>
>>> Ordinary it is not, but unfortunately it's one of the three most common
>>> flavours, even to the extent that many vendors sell only chocolate,
>>> vanilla, and strawberry.
>>
>> At my grocery, I've been buying vanilla ice cream for years -- by the
>> pint so that it stays fresh for a couple of weeks until I finish it.
>>
>> Especially lately, I've noticed that VANILLA is in short supply in
>> pints. I see gallons and half-gallons of vanilla, but the pint-sized
>> containers in the freezer have everything else instead. There are
>> 6 different augmentations of chocolate (mint, chip, fudge, etc.)
>> among the twenty different flavors, but I want vanilla or vanilla
>> bean. They have four or five luxury brands (high-fat, high-taste,
>> high cost) and last week, only one of those had a pint of vanilla.
>>
>> Would another grocery do better, or is this somehow a feature
>> of modern marketing? -- I can see that households buy half
>> a dozen pints of various oddball flavors rather than a huge
>> container of the odd. Is this absence of pints of vanilla noticed
>> elsewhere?
>>
> We do litres here, but even so, I seldom buy it because I make my own.
> I can tell you that vanilla paste is remarkably expensive, as
> flavourings go. Perhaps that means there's a world vanilla crisis.

I doubt whether much real vanilla is used for making ice cream. They
probably use synthetic vanillin or ethylvanillin. Natural vanilla, as
grown in Madagascar, is indeed expensive, because it's grown and
harvested on a small scale.

--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 36 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

In article <kr8ofhFqv84U1@mid.individual.net>,
athel.cb@gmail.com says...
>
> On 2023-11-10 23:37:23 +0000, Paul Wolff said:
>
> > On Fri, 10 Nov 2023, at 13:30:26, Rich Ulrich posted:
> >> On Fri, 10 Nov 2023 09:43:44 -0600, lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 2023-11-10 00:23, Hibou wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>>
> >>>> (Vanilla as ordinary. I'm aware that some love vanilla and don't think
> >>>> it at all ordinary.)
> >>>
> >>> Ordinary it is not, but unfortunately it's one of the three most common
> >>> flavours, even to the extent that many vendors sell only chocolate,
> >>> vanilla, and strawberry.
> >>
> >> At my grocery, I've been buying vanilla ice cream for years -- by the
> >> pint so that it stays fresh for a couple of weeks until I finish it.
> >>
> >> Especially lately, I've noticed that VANILLA is in short supply in
> >> pints. I see gallons and half-gallons of vanilla, but the pint-sized
> >> containers in the freezer have everything else instead. There are
> >> 6 different augmentations of chocolate (mint, chip, fudge, etc.)
> >> among the twenty different flavors, but I want vanilla or vanilla
> >> bean. They have four or five luxury brands (high-fat, high-taste,
> >> high cost) and last week, only one of those had a pint of vanilla.
> >>
> >> Would another grocery do better, or is this somehow a feature
> >> of modern marketing? -- I can see that households buy half
> >> a dozen pints of various oddball flavors rather than a huge
> >> container of the odd. Is this absence of pints of vanilla noticed
> >> elsewhere?
> >>
> > We do litres here, but even so, I seldom buy it because I make my own.
> > I can tell you that vanilla paste is remarkably expensive, as
> > flavourings go. Perhaps that means there's a world vanilla crisis.
>
> I doubt whether much real vanilla is used for making ice cream. They
> probably use synthetic vanillin or ethylvanillin. Natural vanilla, as
> grown in Madagascar, is indeed expensive, because it's grown and
> harvested on a small scale.

I make my own vanilla essence, using real vanilla pods.

Janet

Saturday, Janet quipped:
> In article <kr8ofhFqv84U1@mid.individual.net>,
> athel.cb@gmail.com says...
>>
>> On 2023-11-10 23:37:23 +0000, Paul Wolff said:
>>
>>> On Fri, 10 Nov 2023, at 13:30:26, Rich Ulrich posted:
>>>> On Fri, 10 Nov 2023 09:43:44 -0600, lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2023-11-10 00:23, Hibou wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (Vanilla as ordinary. I'm aware that some love vanilla and don't think
>>>>>> it at all ordinary.)
>>>>>
>>>>> Ordinary it is not, but unfortunately it's one of the three most common
>>>>> flavours, even to the extent that many vendors sell only chocolate,
>>>>> vanilla, and strawberry.
>>>>
>>>> At my grocery, I've been buying vanilla ice cream for years -- by the
>>>> pint so that it stays fresh for a couple of weeks until I finish it.
>>>>
>>>> Especially lately, I've noticed that VANILLA is in short supply in
>>>> pints. I see gallons and half-gallons of vanilla, but the pint-sized
>>>> containers in the freezer have everything else instead. There are
>>>> 6 different augmentations of chocolate (mint, chip, fudge, etc.)
>>>> among the twenty different flavors, but I want vanilla or vanilla
>>>> bean. They have four or five luxury brands (high-fat, high-taste,
>>>> high cost) and last week, only one of those had a pint of vanilla.
>>>>
>>>> Would another grocery do better, or is this somehow a feature
>>>> of modern marketing? -- I can see that households buy half
>>>> a dozen pints of various oddball flavors rather than a huge
>>>> container of the odd. Is this absence of pints of vanilla noticed
>>>> elsewhere?
>>>>
>>> We do litres here, but even so, I seldom buy it because I make my own.
>>> I can tell you that vanilla paste is remarkably expensive, as
>>> flavourings go. Perhaps that means there's a world vanilla crisis.
>>
>> I doubt whether much real vanilla is used for making ice cream. They
>> probably use synthetic vanillin or ethylvanillin. Natural vanilla, as
>> grown in Madagascar, is indeed expensive, because it's grown and
>> harvested on a small scale.
>
> I make my own vanilla essence, using real vanilla pods.
>
> Janet

Do you make a lot of ice cream?

/dps

--
Let's celebrate Macaronesia

In article <mn.5ae17e7b162242d8.127094@snitoo>,
snidely.too@gmail.com says...
> Subject: Re: how did you not win
> From: Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com>
> Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
>
> Saturday, Janet quipped:
> > [quoted text muted]
> >> harvested on a small scale.
> >
> > I make my own vanilla essence, using real vanilla pods.
> >
> > Janet
>
> Do you make a lot of ice cream?
>
I used to when the children were at home, but not any
more.

Janet

On Sat, 11 Nov 2023, at 12:17:17, Snidely posted:
>Saturday, Janet quipped:
>> In article <kr8ofhFqv84U1@mid.individual.net>, athel.cb@gmail.com
>>says...
>>> On 2023-11-10 23:37:23 +0000, Paul Wolff said:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 10 Nov 2023, at 13:30:26, Rich Ulrich posted:
>>>>> On Fri, 10 Nov 2023 09:43:44 -0600, lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2023-11-10 00:23, Hibou wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> (Vanilla as ordinary. I'm aware that some love vanilla and
>>>>>>>don't think
>>>>>>> it at all ordinary.)
>>>>>> Ordinary it is not, but unfortunately it's one of the three most
>>>>>>common
>>>>>> flavours, even to the extent that many vendors sell only chocolate,
>>>>>> vanilla, and strawberry.
>>>>> At my grocery, I've been buying vanilla ice cream for years -- by
>>>>>
>>>>> pint so that it stays fresh for a couple of weeks until I finish it.
>>>>> Especially lately, I've noticed that VANILLA is in short supply
>>>>>
>>>>> pints. I see gallons and half-gallons of vanilla, but the pint-sized
>>>>> containers in the freezer have everything else instead. There are
>>>>> 6 different augmentations of chocolate (mint, chip, fudge, etc.)
>>>>> among the twenty different flavors, but I want vanilla or vanilla
>>>>> bean. They have four or five luxury brands (high-fat, high-taste,
>>>>> high cost) and last week, only one of those had a pint of vanilla.
>>>>> Would another grocery do better, or is this somehow a feature
>>>>> of modern marketing? -- I can see that households buy half
>>>>> a dozen pints of various oddball flavors rather than a huge
>>>>> container of the odd. Is this absence of pints of vanilla noticed
>>>>> elsewhere?
>>>>>
>>>> We do litres here, but even so, I seldom buy it because I make my
>>>>own. I can tell you that vanilla paste is remarkably expensive, as
>>>>flavourings go. Perhaps that means there's a world vanilla crisis.
>>> I doubt whether much real vanilla is used for making ice cream.
>>>They probably use synthetic vanillin or ethylvanillin. Natural
>>>vanilla, as grown in Madagascar, is indeed expensive, because it's
>>>grown and harvested on a small scale.
>>
>> I make my own vanilla essence, using real vanilla pods.
>>
>> Janet
>
>Do you make a lot of ice cream?
>
I want to hear the podcast.
--
Paul W

* Athel Cornish-Bowden <kr8ofhFqv84U1 @mid.individual.net> :
Wrote on Sat, 11 Nov 2023 08:23:28 +0100:
> On 2023-11-10 23:37:23 +0000, Paul Wolff said:
>> On Fri, 10 Nov 2023, at 13:30:26, Rich Ulrich posted:
>>> On Fri, 10 Nov 2023 09:43:44 -0600, lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca> wrote:
>>>> On 2023-11-10 00:23, Hibou wrote:
>>>>> (Vanilla as ordinary. I'm aware that some love vanilla and don't
>>>>> think it at all ordinary.)
>>>> Ordinary it is not, but unfortunately it's one of the three most
>>>> common flavours, even to the extent that many vendors sell only
>>>> chocolate, vanilla, and strawberry.
>>> At my grocery, I've been buying vanilla ice cream for years -- by
>>> the pint so that it stays fresh for a couple of weeks until I finish
>>> it. Especially lately, I've noticed that VANILLA is in short supply
>>> in pints. I see gallons and half-gallons of vanilla, but the
>>> pint-sized containers in the freezer have everything else instead.
>>> There are 6 different augmentations of chocolate (mint, chip, fudge,
>>> etc.) among the twenty different flavors, but I want vanilla or
>>> vanilla bean. They have four or five luxury brands (high-fat,
>>> high-taste, high cost) and last week, only one of those had a pint
>>> of vanilla. Would another grocery do better, or is this somehow a
>>> feature of modern marketing? -- I can see that households buy half
>>> a dozen pints of various oddball flavors rather than a huge
>>> container of the odd. Is this absence of pints of vanilla noticed
>>> elsewhere?
>> We do litres here, but even so, I seldom buy it because I make my
>> own. I can tell you that vanilla paste is remarkably expensive, as
>> flavourings go. Perhaps that means there's a world vanilla crisis.
>
> I doubt whether much real vanilla is used for making ice cream. They
> probably use synthetic vanillin or ethylvanillin. Natural vanilla, as
> grown in Madagascar, is indeed expensive, because it's grown and
> harvested on a small scale.

There is an indian product with a marketing line "Shameless Vanilla Hey!
put something on me"

https://imageproxy.ifunny.co/crop:x-20,resize:640x,quality:90x75/images/32e75a9819727aaa5562584be28ce7e6577b67700f008d20d34e7a8e1e0449a5_1.jpg

which apparently comes in a 700ml pack.

(700ml is a strange number for me)

On 2023-11-12 09:21:25 +0000, Madhu said:

> * Athel Cornish-Bowden <kr8ofhFqv84U1 @mid.individual.net> :
> Wrote on Sat, 11 Nov 2023 08:23:28 +0100:
>> On 2023-11-10 23:37:23 +0000, Paul Wolff said:
>>> On Fri, 10 Nov 2023, at 13:30:26, Rich Ulrich posted:
>>>> On Fri, 10 Nov 2023 09:43:44 -0600, lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca> wrote:
>>>>> On 2023-11-10 00:23, Hibou wrote:
>>>>>> (Vanilla as ordinary. I'm aware that some love vanilla and don't
>>>>>> think it at all ordinary.)
>>>>> Ordinary it is not, but unfortunately it's one of the three most
>>>>> common flavours, even to the extent that many vendors sell only
>>>>> chocolate, vanilla, and strawberry.
>>>> At my grocery, I've been buying vanilla ice cream for years -- by
>>>> the pint so that it stays fresh for a couple of weeks until I finish
>>>> it. Especially lately, I've noticed that VANILLA is in short supply
>>>> in pints. I see gallons and half-gallons of vanilla, but the
>>>> pint-sized containers in the freezer have everything else instead.
>>>> There are 6 different augmentations of chocolate (mint, chip, fudge,
>>>> etc.) among the twenty different flavors, but I want vanilla or
>>>> vanilla bean. They have four or five luxury brands (high-fat,
>>>> high-taste, high cost) and last week, only one of those had a pint
>>>> of vanilla. Would another grocery do better, or is this somehow a
>>>> feature of modern marketing? -- I can see that households buy half
>>>> a dozen pints of various oddball flavors rather than a huge
>>>> container of the odd. Is this absence of pints of vanilla noticed
>>>> elsewhere?
>>> We do litres here, but even so, I seldom buy it because I make my
>>> own. I can tell you that vanilla paste is remarkably expensive, as
>>> flavourings go. Perhaps that means there's a world vanilla crisis.
>>
>> I doubt whether much real vanilla is used for making ice cream. They
>> probably use synthetic vanillin or ethylvanillin. Natural vanilla, as
>> grown in Madagascar, is indeed expensive, because it's grown and
>> harvested on a small scale.
>
> There is an indian product with a marketing line "Shameless Vanilla Hey!
> put something on me"
>
> https://imageproxy.ifunny.co/crop:x-20,resize:640x,quality:90x75/images/32e75a9819727aaa5562584be28ce7e6577b67700f008d20d34e7a8e1e0449a5_1.jpg
>
>
>
> which apparently comes in a 700ml pack.
>
> (700ml is a strange number for me)

I see that in small print it says K'wality Wall's. Any connection with
the Wall's Ice Cream that used to be very common in England (maybe it
still is)?

Incidentally, not just here, but in many advertisements, the picture is
labelled "Serving suggestion". Why? Do they really think that many of
their customers are so moronic that they don't know how to serve ice
cream?

--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 36 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

* Athel Cornish-Bowden <krbiqpFc3e0U1 @mid.individual.net> :
Wrote on Sun, 12 Nov 2023 10:05:28 +0100:
>
> I see that in small print it says K'wality Wall's. Any connection with
> the Wall's Ice Cream that used to be very common in England (maybe it
> still is)?

I see Walls is now a Unilever brand, which in india means "Hindustan
Unilever"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwality_Wall%27s

Kwality, the original Indian company, was founded in 1956, and was the
first in the region to import machinery for the mass production and sale
of ice cream on a commercial scale. In 1995, in

> Incidentally, not just here, but in many advertisements, the picture
> is labelled "Serving suggestion". Why? Do they really think that many
> of their customers are so moronic that they don't know how to serve
> ice cream?

I didn't spot that. I'm not a consumer of it but I happen to have a tub
in front of me "FROZEN DESSERT IS MADE WITH 10.2% EDIBLE VEGETABLE OIL"

>> * Athel Cornish-Bowden <kr8ofhFqv84U1 @mid.individual.net> :
>>> I doubt whether much real vanilla is used for making ice cream. They
>>> probably use synthetic vanillin or ethylvanillin. Natural vanilla,
>>> as grown in Madagascar, is indeed expensive, because it's grown and
>>> harvested on a small scale.

Indeed. from the tub:

Frozen dessert: ingredients: Water, sugar, palm oil, milk solids, liquid
glucose, emulsifier E471, E407, E410, natural & artificial (Vanilla)
flavouring substances, Food Colour E102.

Le 12/11/2023 à 09:35, Madhu a écrit :
>
> Indeed. from the tub:
>
> Frozen dessert: ingredients: Water, sugar, palm oil, milk solids, liquid
> glucose, emulsifier E471, E407, E410, natural & artificial (Vanilla)
> flavouring substances, Food Colour E102.

Yum!

Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> writes:
>Le 12/11/2023 à 09:35, Madhu a écrit :
>>Indeed. from the tub:
>>Frozen dessert: ingredients: Water, sugar, palm oil, milk solids, liquid
>>glucose, emulsifier E471, E407, E410, natural & artificial (Vanilla)
>>flavouring substances, Food Colour E102.
>Yum!

Emulsifiers are currently being studied in more detail.

|Food additive emulsifiers and risk of cardiovascular ...

|Direct impact of commonly used dietary emulsifiers on human
|...

|The aim of this study is to evaluate the putative effects of
|two commonly used dietary emulsifiers (EMI and EMII) on human
|colon adenocarcinoma ...

|Assessing the impact of exposure to permitted emulsifiers on
|bowel and metabolic health

On 2023-11-12 02:51, Madhu wrote:
> * Athel Cornish-Bowden <kr8ofhFqv84U1 @mid.individual.net> :
> Wrote on Sat, 11 Nov 2023 08:23:28 +0100:
>> On 2023-11-10 23:37:23 +0000, Paul Wolff said:
>>> On Fri, 10 Nov 2023, at 13:30:26, Rich Ulrich posted:
>>>> On Fri, 10 Nov 2023 09:43:44 -0600, lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca> wrote:
>>>>> On 2023-11-10 00:23, Hibou wrote:
>>>>>> (Vanilla as ordinary. I'm aware that some love vanilla and don't
>>>>>> think it at all ordinary.)
>>>>> Ordinary it is not, but unfortunately it's one of the three most
>>>>> common flavours, even to the extent that many vendors sell only
>>>>> chocolate, vanilla, and strawberry.
>>>> At my grocery, I've been buying vanilla ice cream for years -- by
>>>> the pint so that it stays fresh for a couple of weeks until I finish
>>>> it. Especially lately, I've noticed that VANILLA is in short supply
>>>> in pints. I see gallons and half-gallons of vanilla, but the
>>>> pint-sized containers in the freezer have everything else instead.
>>>> There are 6 different augmentations of chocolate (mint, chip, fudge,
>>>> etc.) among the twenty different flavors, but I want vanilla or
>>>> vanilla bean. They have four or five luxury brands (high-fat,
>>>> high-taste, high cost) and last week, only one of those had a pint
>>>> of vanilla. Would another grocery do better, or is this somehow a
>>>> feature of modern marketing? -- I can see that households buy half
>>>> a dozen pints of various oddball flavors rather than a huge
>>>> container of the odd. Is this absence of pints of vanilla noticed
>>>> elsewhere?
>>> We do litres here, but even so, I seldom buy it because I make my
>>> own. I can tell you that vanilla paste is remarkably expensive, as
>>> flavourings go. Perhaps that means there's a world vanilla crisis.
>>
>> I doubt whether much real vanilla is used for making ice cream. They
>> probably use synthetic vanillin or ethylvanillin. Natural vanilla, as
>> grown in Madagascar, is indeed expensive, because it's grown and
>> harvested on a small scale.
>
> There is an indian product with a marketing line "Shameless Vanilla Hey!
> put something on me"
>
> https://imageproxy.ifunny.co/crop:x-20,resize:640x,quality:90x75/images/32e75a9819727aaa5562584be28ce7e6577b67700f008d20d34e7a8e1e0449a5_1.jpg
>
>
> which apparently comes in a 700ml pack.
>
> (700ml is a strange number for me)

What I find strange about that product is the use of a lower case 'i'.

--
It is easier to get older than it is to get wiser.