1) The rockets hit outside the camp.
2) The rockets struck outside the camp.

Are both grammatical?
Are both idiomatic?

The verbs are transitive and 'outside the camp' seems
to be a noun in those sentences. But can 'outside the
camp' be a noun? If the sentences are correct, is that
how you would parse them (if you are into parsing)?

--
Gratefully,
Navi

Hitting the road and hoping the see the signpost up
ahead in the Twilight Zone
Interested in strange structures
Obsessed with ambiguity

Le 08/11/2023 à 08:37, arthurvv vart a écrit :
>
> 1) The rockets hit outside the camp.
> 2) The rockets struck outside the camp.
>
> Are both grammatical?
> Are both idiomatic?

Yes.

> The verbs are transitive and 'outside the camp' seems
> to be a noun in those sentences. But can 'outside the
> camp' be a noun? If the sentences are correct, is that
> how you would parse them (if you are into parsing)?

I'm no grammarian, but I'd interpret "outside the camp" as an adverbial
phrase. The direct object of 'hit' and 'struck' (the ground, for
example) has been omitted.

Le 08/11/2023 à 08:51, Hibou a écrit :
> Le 08/11/2023 à 08:37, arthurvv vart a écrit :
>>
>> 1) The rockets hit outside the camp.
>> 2) The rockets struck outside the camp.
>>
>> Are both grammatical?
>> Are both idiomatic?
>
> Yes.
>
>> The verbs are transitive and 'outside the camp' seems
>> to be a noun in those sentences. But can 'outside the
>> camp' be a noun? If the sentences are correct, is that
>> how you would parse them (if you are into parsing)?
>
> I'm no grammarian, but I'd interpret "outside the camp" as an adverbial
> phrase. The direct object of 'hit' and 'struck' (the ground, for
> example) has been omitted.

But then, if one puts it back in, 'outside' looks like a preposition:

The rockets hit {the ground outside the camp}.

"Navi":
>>> 1) The rockets hit outside the camp.
>>> 2) The rockets struck outside the camp.
>>>
>>> Are both grammatical?
>>> Are both idiomatic?

They're fine.

>>> The verbs are transitive

Not in these sentences, they're not.

>>> and 'outside the camp' seems to be a noun in those sentences.

No. Phrases like "outside the camp" *can* act as nouns -- "Outside
the camp is where we have to look for him" -- but in 1 and 2 it's
acting as an adverb.

"Hibou":
>> The direct object of 'hit' and 'struck' (the ground, for
>> example) has been omitted.

There wasn't one.
> But then, if one puts it back in, 'outside' looks like a preposition:

It is a preposition.
--
Mark Brader "Well, it's not in MY interest -- and I represent
Toronto the public, so it's not in the public interest!"
msb@vex.net -- Jim Hacker, "Yes, Minister" (Lynn & Jay)

My text in this article is in the public domain.

On Wednesday, November 8, 2023 at 3:37:42 AM UTC-5, arthurvv vart wrote:

> 1) The rockets hit outside the camp.
> 2) The rockets struck outside the camp.
>
> Are both grammatical?
> Are both idiomatic?
>
> The verbs are transitive and 'outside the camp' seems
> to be a noun in those sentences. But can 'outside the
> camp' be a noun? If the sentences are correct, is that
> how you would parse them (if you are into parsing)?

It's usually "The rockets landed ...." The verbs are not transitive.

Le mercredi 8 novembre 2023 à 09:37:42 UTC+1, arthurvv vart a écrit :
> 1) The rockets hit outside the camp.
> 2) The rockets struck outside the camp.
>
> Are both grammatical?
> Are both idiomatic?
>
> The verbs are transitive and 'outside the camp' seems
> to be a noun in those sentences.

The verbs are intransitive. For them to be transitive, you'd have to
change "outside the camp" (an adverbial phrase) to "the outside
of the camp" (an actual object).

> But can 'outside the
> camp' be a noun? If the sentences are correct, is that
> how you would parse them (if you are into parsing)?
>
> --
> Gratefully,
> Navi
>
> Hitting the road and hoping the see the signpost up
> ahead in the Twilight Zone
> Interested in strange structures
> Obsessed with ambiguity