A certain Juszczyk played in the Super Bowl. How do US Americans
pronounce that name?

On 12/02/2024 19:03, Silvano wrote:
> A certain Juszczyk played in the Super Bowl. How do US Americans
> pronounce that name?
>
ˈjuːstʃɛk/ YOOSS-chek according to en.wiki.

--
Ray
UK

On 2024-02-12 20:04:43 +0000, musika said:

> On 12/02/2024 19:03, Silvano wrote:
>> A certain Juszczyk played in the Super Bowl. How do US Americans
>> pronounce that name?
>>
> ˈjuːstʃɛk/ YOOSS-chek according to en.wiki.

I know someone in Chile whose name contains szcz. She makes no attempt
to pronounce it in a Polish way but just treats it as [ʃ] (sh).
Theoretically there is no naked [ʃ] in Spanish, i.e. not part of [tʃ],
but many people in Chile pronounce ch just as [ʃ] or [ʃʃ], i.e. a
lengthened [ʃ].

The Russian letter щ that corresponds to Polish szcz is supposed to be
pronounced as [ʃtʃ], but I'm told that in modern Russian it's usually
[ʃʃ], a lengthened ш, whatever the textbooks say.

--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 36 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

On 12/02/2024 20:54, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2024-02-12 20:04:43 +0000, musika said:
>
>> On 12/02/2024 19:03, Silvano wrote:
>>> A certain Juszczyk played in the Super Bowl. How do US Americans
>>> pronounce that name?
>>>
>> ˈjuːstʃɛk/ YOOSS-chek according to en.wiki.
>
> I know someone in Chile whose name contains szcz. She makes no attempt
> to pronounce it in a Polish way but just treats it as [ʃ] (sh).
> Theoretically there is no naked [ʃ] in Spanish, i.e. not part of [tʃ],
> but many people in Chile pronounce ch just as [ʃ] or [ʃʃ], i.e. a
> lengthened [ʃ].
>
> The Russian letter щ that corresponds to Polish szcz is supposed to be
> pronounced as [ʃtʃ], but I'm told that in modern Russian it's usually
> [ʃʃ], a lengthened ш, whatever the textbooks say.
>
I'd read that is definitely the Moscow way. I wondered how far it had
travelled.

--
Ray
UK

On Monday, February 12, 2024 at 2:29:19 PM UTC-7, musika wrote:
> On 12/02/2024 20:54, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> > On 2024-02-12 20:04:43 +0000, musika said:
> >
> >> On 12/02/2024 19:03, Silvano wrote:
> >>> A certain Juszczyk played in the Super Bowl. How do US Americans
> >>> pronounce that name?
> >>>
> >> ˈjuːstʃɛk/ YOOSS-chek according to en.wiki.
> >
> > I know someone in Chile whose name contains szcz. She makes no attempt
> > to pronounce it in a Polish way but just treats it as [ʃ] (sh).
> > Theoretically there is no naked [ʃ] in Spanish, i.e. not part of [tʃ],
> > but many people in Chile pronounce ch just as [ʃ] or [ʃʃ], i.e. a
> > lengthened [ʃ].
> >
> > The Russian letter щ that corresponds to Polish szcz is supposed to be
> > pronounced as [ʃtʃ], but I'm told that in modern Russian it's usually
> > [ʃʃ], a lengthened ш, whatever the textbooks say.
> >
> I'd read that is definitely the Moscow way. I wondered how far it had
> travelled.

My roommate in grad school in the mid '80s, who was a Russian-speaking
Jew from Kiyv, said everybody pronounced it that way. It's a "soft" or
palatal /ʃ:/, unlike the "hard" or somewhat velarized (or something) /ʃ/
spelled with the letter than looks almost the same.

--
Jerry Friedman

On 13/02/24 07:54, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2024-02-12 20:04:43 +0000, musika said:
>
>> On 12/02/2024 19:03, Silvano wrote:
>>> A certain Juszczyk played in the Super Bowl. How do US Americans
>>> pronounce that name?
>>>
>> ˈjuːstʃɛk/ YOOSS-chek according to en.wiki.
>
> I know someone in Chile whose name contains szcz. She makes no
> attempt to pronounce it in a Polish way but just treats it as [ʃ]
> (sh). Theoretically there is no naked [ʃ] in Spanish, i.e. not part
> of [tʃ], but many people in Chile pronounce ch just as [ʃ] or [ʃʃ],
> i.e. a lengthened [ʃ].
>
> The Russian letter щ that corresponds to Polish szcz is supposed to
> be pronounced as [ʃtʃ], but I'm told that in modern Russian it's
> usually [ʃʃ], a lengthened ш, whatever the textbooks say.

It's a difficult combination for English speakers, of course. The
Russian word borshch seems to be pronounced "borsht" by almost all
English speakers.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW

Peter Moylan:
> It's a difficult combination for English speakers, of course. The
> Russian word borshch seems to be pronounced "borsht" by almost all
> English speakers.

I would think English-speakers would be more likely to use the
English word "borscht", which is indeed pronounced "borsht".
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "When you're up to your ass in alligators, maybe
msb@vex.net | you're in the wrong swamp." -- Bill Stewart

On 13/02/2024 11:54 a.m., Mark Brader wrote:
> Peter Moylan:
>> It's a difficult combination for English speakers, of course. The
>> Russian word borshch seems to be pronounced "borsht" by almost all
>> English speakers.
>
> I would think English-speakers would be more likely to use the
> English word "borscht", which is indeed pronounced "borsht".
>

Cognates of the word exist in several Slavic languages, and it has
surely been borrowed more than once into English, either directly or via
Yiddish. The original "shch" consonant cluster is simplified to "sht" in
South Slavic languages, and in Czech.

On 12/02/2024 22:44, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 13/02/24 07:54, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>> On 2024-02-12 20:04:43 +0000, musika said:
>>
>>> On 12/02/2024 19:03, Silvano wrote:
>>>> A certain Juszczyk played in the Super Bowl. How do US Americans
>>>> pronounce that name?
>>>>
>>> ˈjuːstʃɛk/ YOOSS-chek according to en.wiki.
>>
>> I know someone in Chile whose name contains szcz. She makes no
>> attempt to pronounce it in a Polish way but just treats it as [ʃ]
>> (sh). Theoretically there is no naked [ʃ] in Spanish, i.e. not part
>> of [tʃ], but many people in Chile pronounce ch just as [ʃ] or [ʃʃ],
>> i.e. a lengthened [ʃ].
>>
>> The Russian letter щ that corresponds to Polish szcz is supposed to
>> be pronounced as [ʃtʃ], but I'm told that in modern Russian it's
>> usually [ʃʃ], a lengthened ш, whatever the textbooks say.
>
> It's a difficult combination for English speakers, of course. The
> Russian word borshch seems to be pronounced "borsht" by almost all
> English speakers.
>
It's not difficult to say; people have no problem saying pushchair.
It just looks difficult in different positions.
--
Ray
UK

> On 13/02/2024 11:54 a.m., Mark Brader wrote:
>> Peter Moylan:
>>> It's a difficult combination for English speakers, of course. The
>>> Russian word borshch seems to be pronounced "borsht" by almost all
>>> English speakers.
>>
>> I would think English-speakers would be more likely to use the
>> English word "borscht", which is indeed pronounced "borsht".
>>
Borsch is also common.

--
Ray
UK

Peter Moylan wrote:

> It's a difficult combination for English speakers, of course. The
> Russian word borshch seems to be pronounced "borsht" by almost all
> English speakers.

I seem to remeber having heard that it is pronounced "borsh" in Hungary.
Am I mistaken? (or maybe ill-informed)

--
Bertel, Denmark

musika wrote:

> It's not difficult to say; people have no problem saying pushchair.
> It just looks difficult in different positions.

It seems to be more difficult because there is no sound after the second
'sh'.

--
Bertel, Denmark

On 2024-02-12 17:29, musika wrote:
>> On 13/02/2024 11:54 a.m., Mark Brader wrote:
>>> Peter Moylan:
>>>> It's a difficult combination for English speakers, of course. The
>>>> Russian word borshch seems to be pronounced "borsht" by almost all
>>>> English speakers.
>>>
>>> I would think English-speakers would be more likely to use the
>>> English word "borscht", which is indeed pronounced "borsht".

That's the way I've always pronounced it.

> Borsch is also common.

That's the way my wife pronounces it. hHr father was Ukrainian, and her
mother is Romanian.

--
Life isn't about the moments that take your breath away.
That's asthma. You're thinking of asthma.

On Mon, 12 Feb 2024 22:09:56 -0600, lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca> wrote:

>On 2024-02-12 17:29, musika wrote:
>>> On 13/02/2024 11:54 a.m., Mark Brader wrote:
>>>> Peter Moylan:
>>>>> It's a difficult combination for English speakers, of course. The
>>>>> Russian word borshch seems to be pronounced "borsht" by almost all
>>>>> English speakers.
>>>>
>>>> I would think English-speakers would be more likely to use the
>>>> English word "borscht", which is indeed pronounced "borsht".
>
>That's the way I've always pronounced it.
>
>> Borsch is also common.

I pronounce it borshcht, with the schch like that in "rash choice."

On 2024-02-12, Peter Moylan wrote:

> On 13/02/24 07:54, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>> On 2024-02-12 20:04:43 +0000, musika said:
>>
>>> On 12/02/2024 19:03, Silvano wrote:
>>>> A certain Juszczyk played in the Super Bowl. How do US Americans
>>>> pronounce that name?
>>>>
>>> ˈjuːstʃɛk/ YOOSS-chek according to en.wiki.
>>
>> I know someone in Chile whose name contains szcz. She makes no
>> attempt to pronounce it in a Polish way but just treats it as [ʃ]
>> (sh). Theoretically there is no naked [ʃ] in Spanish, i.e. not part
>> of [tʃ], but many people in Chile pronounce ch just as [ʃ] or [ʃʃ],
>> i.e. a lengthened [ʃ].
>>
>> The Russian letter щ that corresponds to Polish szcz is supposed to
>> be pronounced as [ʃtʃ], but I'm told that in modern Russian it's
>> usually [ʃʃ], a lengthened ш, whatever the textbooks say.
>
> It's a difficult combination for English speakers, of course. The
> Russian word borshch seems to be pronounced "borsht" by almost all
> English speakers.

AIUI, the English word comes directly from Yiddish "borsht"
(ultimately from Russian).

--
I only regret that I have but one shirt to give for my country.
---Abbie Hoffman

On 2024-02-12, musika wrote:

> On 12/02/2024 22:44, Peter Moylan wrote:
>> On 13/02/24 07:54, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>>> On 2024-02-12 20:04:43 +0000, musika said:
>>>
>>>> On 12/02/2024 19:03, Silvano wrote:
>>>>> A certain Juszczyk played in the Super Bowl. How do US Americans
>>>>> pronounce that name?
>>>>>
>>>> ˈjuːstʃɛk/ YOOSS-chek according to en.wiki.
>>>
>>> I know someone in Chile whose name contains szcz. She makes no
>>> attempt to pronounce it in a Polish way but just treats it as [ʃ]
>>> (sh). Theoretically there is no naked [ʃ] in Spanish, i.e. not part
>>> of [tʃ], but many people in Chile pronounce ch just as [ʃ] or [ʃʃ],
>>> i.e. a lengthened [ʃ].
>>>
>>> The Russian letter щ that corresponds to Polish szcz is supposed to
>>> be pronounced as [ʃtʃ], but I'm told that in modern Russian it's
>>> usually [ʃʃ], a lengthened ш, whatever the textbooks say.
>>
>> It's a difficult combination for English speakers, of course. The
>> Russian word borshch seems to be pronounced "borsht" by almost all
>> English speakers.
>>
> It's not difficult to say; people have no problem saying pushchair.
> It just looks difficult in different positions.

That's different because the "sh" ends one syllable and the "ch"
starts the next.

--
Nam Sibbyllam quidem Cumis ego ipse oculis meis vidi in ampulla
pendere, et cum illi pueri dicerent: beable beable beable; respondebat
illa: doidy doidy doidy. ---plorkwort

On 2024-02-14 12:14:01 +0000, Adam Funk said:

> On 2024-02-12, musika wrote:
>
>> On 12/02/2024 22:44, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>> On 13/02/24 07:54, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>>>> On 2024-02-12 20:04:43 +0000, musika said:
>>>>
>>>>> On 12/02/2024 19:03, Silvano wrote:
>>>>>> A certain Juszczyk played in the Super Bowl. How do US Americans
>>>>>> pronounce that name?
>>>>>>
>>>>> ˈjuːstʃɛk/ YOOSS-chek according to en.wiki.
>>>>
>>>> I know someone in Chile whose name contains szcz. She makes no
>>>> attempt to pronounce it in a Polish way but just treats it as [ʃ]
>>>> (sh). Theoretically there is no naked [ʃ] in Spanish, i.e. not part
>>>> of [tʃ], but many people in Chile pronounce ch just as [ʃ] or [ʃʃ],
>>>> i.e. a lengthened [ʃ].
>>>>
>>>> The Russian letter щ that corresponds to Polish szcz is supposed to
>>>> be pronounced as [ʃtʃ], but I'm told that in modern Russian it's
>>>> usually [ʃʃ], a lengthened ш, whatever the textbooks say.
>>>
>>> It's a difficult combination for English speakers, of course. The
>>> Russian word borshch seems to be pronounced "borsht" by almost all
>>> English speakers.
>>>
>> It's not difficult to say; people have no problem saying pushchair.
>> It just looks difficult in different positions.
>
> That's different because the "sh" ends one syllable and the "ch"
> starts the next.

No doubt you'll make the same argument with place names like Ashchurch
(a village near Tewkesbury).

--
Athel cb

On 15/02/24 04:52, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2024-02-14 12:14:01 +0000, Adam Funk said:
>
>> On 2024-02-12, musika wrote:
>>
>>> On 12/02/2024 22:44, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>>> On 13/02/24 07:54, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-02-12 20:04:43 +0000, musika said:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 12/02/2024 19:03, Silvano wrote:
>>>>>>> A certain Juszczyk played in the Super Bowl. How do US
>>>>>>> Americans pronounce that name?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> ˈjuːstʃɛk/ YOOSS-chek according to en.wiki.
>>>>>
>>>>> I know someone in Chile whose name contains szcz. She makes
>>>>> no attempt to pronounce it in a Polish way but just treats it
>>>>> as [ʃ] (sh). Theoretically there is no naked [ʃ] in Spanish,
>>>>> i.e. not part of [tʃ], but many people in Chile pronounce ch
>>>>> just as [ʃ] or [ʃʃ], i.e. a lengthened [ʃ].
>>>>>
>>>>> The Russian letter щ that corresponds to Polish szcz is
>>>>> supposed to be pronounced as [ʃtʃ], but I'm told that in
>>>>> modern Russian it's usually [ʃʃ], a lengthened ш, whatever
>>>>> the textbooks say.
>>>>
>>>> It's a difficult combination for English speakers, of course.
>>>> The Russian word borshch seems to be pronounced "borsht" by
>>>> almost all English speakers.
>>>>
>>> It's not difficult to say; people have no problem saying
>>> pushchair. It just looks difficult in different positions.
>>
>> That's different because the "sh" ends one syllable and the "ch"
>> starts the next.
>
> No doubt you'll make the same argument with place names like
> Ashchurch (a village near Tewkesbury).

At least in Russian, the most common location for the letter in question
is at the end of a word. Change the place name to Ashchurshch for a
better example in English.

But of course we know that Slavic speakers have a high tolerance for
consonant clusters.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW

On 14/02/24 23:08, Adam Funk wrote:

> -- I only regret that I have but one shirt to give for my country.
> ---Abbie Hoffman

I misread that the first time through, and realised that an even better
version would be "I regret that I have but one shit to give for my country."

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW

On 2024-02-14, Peter Moylan wrote:

> On 15/02/24 04:52, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>> On 2024-02-14 12:14:01 +0000, Adam Funk said:
>>
>>> On 2024-02-12, musika wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 12/02/2024 22:44, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>>>> On 13/02/24 07:54, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>>>>>> On 2024-02-12 20:04:43 +0000, musika said:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 12/02/2024 19:03, Silvano wrote:
>>>>>>>> A certain Juszczyk played in the Super Bowl. How do US
>>>>>>>> Americans pronounce that name?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ˈjuːstʃɛk/ YOOSS-chek according to en.wiki.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I know someone in Chile whose name contains szcz. She makes
>>>>>> no attempt to pronounce it in a Polish way but just treats it
>>>>>> as [ʃ] (sh). Theoretically there is no naked [ʃ] in Spanish,
>>>>>> i.e. not part of [tʃ], but many people in Chile pronounce ch
>>>>>> just as [ʃ] or [ʃʃ], i.e. a lengthened [ʃ].
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Russian letter щ that corresponds to Polish szcz is
>>>>>> supposed to be pronounced as [ʃtʃ], but I'm told that in
>>>>>> modern Russian it's usually [ʃʃ], a lengthened ш, whatever
>>>>>> the textbooks say.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's a difficult combination for English speakers, of course.
>>>>> The Russian word borshch seems to be pronounced "borsht" by
>>>>> almost all English speakers.
>>>>>
>>>> It's not difficult to say; people have no problem saying
>>>> pushchair. It just looks difficult in different positions.
>>>
>>> That's different because the "sh" ends one syllable and the "ch"
>>> starts the next.
>>
>> No doubt you'll make the same argument with place names like
>> Ashchurch (a village near Tewkesbury).
>
> At least in Russian, the most common location for the letter in question
> is at the end of a word. Change the place name to Ashchurshch for a
> better example in English.
>
> But of course we know that Slavic speakers have a high tolerance for
> consonant clusters.

That's the impression I have. Anyway, I'm surprised that an English
village name like "Ashchurch" has the literal pronunciation.

--
Indentation is for enemy skulls, not code!
---Klingon Programmer's Guide

On 2024-02-14, Peter Moylan wrote:

> On 14/02/24 23:08, Adam Funk wrote:
>
>> -- I only regret that I have but one shirt to give for my country.
>> ---Abbie Hoffman
>
> I misread that the first time through, and realised that an even better
> version would be "I regret that I have but one shit to give for my country."

He said that after he was arrested for (probably among other things)
wearing a flag shirt at a demonstration.

--
When a man tells you that he got rich through hard work, ask him
whose? ---Don Marquis

On 2024-02-15 10:52:30 +0000, Adam Funk said:

> On 2024-02-14, Peter Moylan wrote:
>
>> On 15/02/24 04:52, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>>> On 2024-02-14 12:14:01 +0000, Adam Funk said:
>>>
>>>> On 2024-02-12, musika wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 12/02/2024 22:44, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>>>>> On 13/02/24 07:54, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2024-02-12 20:04:43 +0000, musika said:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 12/02/2024 19:03, Silvano wrote:
>>>>>>>>> A certain Juszczyk played in the Super Bowl. How do US
>>>>>>>>> Americans pronounce that name?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ˈjuːstʃɛk/ YOOSS-chek according to en.wiki.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I know someone in Chile whose name contains szcz. She makes
>>>>>>> no attempt to pronounce it in a Polish way but just treats it
>>>>>>> as [ʃ] (sh). Theoretically there is no naked [ʃ] in Spanish,
>>>>>>> i.e. not part of [tʃ], but many people in Chile pronounce ch
>>>>>>> just as [ʃ] or [ʃʃ], i.e. a lengthened [ʃ].
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Russian letter щ that corresponds to Polish szcz is
>>>>>>> supposed to be pronounced as [ʃtʃ], but I'm told that in
>>>>>>> modern Russian it's usually [ʃʃ], a lengthened ш, whatever
>>>>>>> the textbooks say.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's a difficult combination for English speakers, of course.
>>>>>> The Russian word borshch seems to be pronounced "borsht" by
>>>>>> almost all English speakers.
>>>>>>
>>>>> It's not difficult to say; people have no problem saying
>>>>> pushchair. It just looks difficult in different positions.
>>>>
>>>> That's different because the "sh" ends one syllable and the "ch"
>>>> starts the next.
>>>
>>> No doubt you'll make the same argument with place names like
>>> Ashchurch (a village near Tewkesbury).
>>
>> At least in Russian, the most common location for the letter in question
>> is at the end of a word. Change the place name to Ashchurshch for a
>> better example in English.
>>
>> But of course we know that Slavic speakers have a high tolerance for
>> consonant clusters.
>
> That's the impression I have. Anyway, I'm surprised that an English
> village name like "Ashchurch" has the literal pronunciation.

I hadn't thought of that, but it's not listed at

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_irregularly_spelt_places_in_the_United_Kingdom

so I assume it has.

Sometimes place names are regular when one expects something else. The
village Stokenham in Devon is pronounced the way an American would
expect (/,stəʊ̯kən'hæm/), not the way a British person would expect
(/'stəʊ̯kənəm/).

--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 36 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

On 2024-02-14 16:21, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 15/02/24 04:52, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>> On 2024-02-14 12:14:01 +0000, Adam Funk said:
>>
>>> On 2024-02-12, musika wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 12/02/2024 22:44, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>>>> On 13/02/24 07:54, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>>>>>> On 2024-02-12 20:04:43 +0000, musika said:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 12/02/2024 19:03, Silvano wrote:
>>>>>>>> A certain Juszczyk played in the Super Bowl. How do US
>>>>>>>> Americans pronounce that name?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ˈjuːstʃɛk/ YOOSS-chek according to en.wiki.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I know someone in Chile whose name contains szcz. She makes
>>>>>> no attempt to pronounce it in a Polish way but just treats it
>>>>>> as [ʃ] (sh). Theoretically there is no naked [ʃ] in Spanish,
>>>>>> i.e. not part of [tʃ], but many people in Chile pronounce ch
>>>>>> just as [ʃ] or [ʃʃ], i.e. a lengthened [ʃ].
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Russian letter щ that corresponds to Polish szcz is
>>>>>> supposed to be pronounced as [ʃtʃ], but I'm told that in
>>>>>> modern Russian it's usually [ʃʃ], a lengthened ш, whatever
>>>>>> the textbooks say.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's a difficult combination for English speakers, of course.
>>>>> The Russian word borshch seems to be pronounced "borsht" by
>>>>> almost all English speakers.
>>>>>
>>>> It's not difficult to say; people have no problem saying
>>>> pushchair. It just looks difficult in different positions.
>>>
>>> That's different because the "sh" ends one syllable and the "ch"
>>> starts the next.
>>
>> No doubt you'll make the same argument with place names like
>> Ashchurch (a village near Tewkesbury).
>
> At least in Russian, the most common location for the letter in question
> is at the end of a word. Change the place name to Ashchurshch for a
> better example in English.
>
> But of course we know that Slavic speakers have a high tolerance for
> consonant clusters.

Vanna, I'd like to buy a vowel.

--
Canada. Leading the world in being north of the USA.

On 2024-02-15 19:52:42 +0000, lar3ryca said:

> On 2024-02-14 16:21, Peter Moylan wrote:
>> On 15/02/24 04:52, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>>> On 2024-02-14 12:14:01 +0000, Adam Funk said:
>>>
>>>> On 2024-02-12, musika wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 12/02/2024 22:44, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>>>>> On 13/02/24 07:54, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2024-02-12 20:04:43 +0000, musika said:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 12/02/2024 19:03, Silvano wrote:
>>>>>>>>> A certain Juszczyk played in the Super Bowl. How do US
>>>>>>>>> Americans pronounce that name?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ˈjuːstʃɛk/ YOOSS-chek according to en.wiki.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I know someone in Chile whose name contains szcz. She makes
>>>>>>> no attempt to pronounce it in a Polish way but just treats it
>>>>>>> as [ʃ] (sh). Theoretically there is no naked [ʃ] in Spanish,
>>>>>>> i.e. not part of [tʃ], but many people in Chile pronounce ch
>>>>>>> just as [ʃ] or [ʃʃ], i.e. a lengthened [ʃ].
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Russian letter щ that corresponds to Polish szcz is
>>>>>>> supposed to be pronounced as [ʃtʃ], but I'm told that in
>>>>>>> modern Russian it's usually [ʃʃ], a lengthened ш, whatever
>>>>>>> the textbooks say.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's a difficult combination for English speakers, of course.
>>>>>> The Russian word borshch seems to be pronounced "borsht" by
>>>>>> almost all English speakers.
>>>>>>
>>>>> It's not difficult to say; people have no problem saying
>>>>> pushchair. It just looks difficult in different positions.
>>>>
>>>> That's different because the "sh" ends one syllable and the "ch"
>>>> starts the next.
>>>
>>> No doubt you'll make the same argument with place names like
>>> Ashchurch (a village near Tewkesbury).
>>
>> At least in Russian, the most common location for the letter in question
>> is at the end of a word. Change the place name to Ashchurshch for a
>> better example in English.
>>
>> But of course we know that Slavic speakers have a high tolerance for
>> consonant clusters.
>
> Vanna, I'd like to buy a vowel.

I've always thought it would be a good idea for the Danes and the
Portuguese toget together: the Danes can sell the Portuguese some
vowels and the Portuguese can sell the Danes some consonants.

--
athel -- biochemist, not a physicist, but detector of crackpots

Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:

>>> But of course we know that Slavic speakers have a high tolerance for
>>> consonant clusters.
>>
>> Vanna, I'd like to buy a vowel.
>
> I've always thought it would be a good idea for the Danes and the
> Portuguese toget together: the Danes can sell the Portuguese some
> vowels and the Portuguese can sell the Danes some consonants.

That sound like a good idea.

--
Bertel, Denmark