An online New York Times headline reads:

"More Than a Fifth of Remaining Hostages in Gaza Are Dead, an Israeli
Report Says"

My question is whether or not a deceased person can be considered to
be a hostage. Certainly, the body can be held hostage if a payment or
some other exchange is required to return the body.

It's a tricky headline to write. There are 136 people remaining who
are known to have been taken hostage, and the report claims that 32 of
them are now deceased.

Tony Cooper hat am 06.02.2024 um 16:30 geschrieben:
> An online New York Times headline reads:
>
> "More Than a Fifth of Remaining Hostages in Gaza Are Dead, an Israeli
> Report Says"
>
> My question is whether or not a deceased person can be considered to
> be a hostage. Certainly, the body can be held hostage if a payment or
> some other exchange is required to return the body.

Until the dead bodies are returned to be buried I'd still call them
hostages.

Tony Cooper wrote:

> "More Than a Fifth of Remaining Hostages in Gaza Are Dead, an Israeli
> Report Says"
>
> My question is whether or not a deceased person can be considered to
> be a hostage. Certainly, the body can be held hostage if a payment or
> some other exchange is required to return the body.
>
> It's a tricky headline to write. There are 136 people remaining who
> are known to have been taken hostage, and the report claims that 32 of
> them are now deceased.

Would you object to a headline like this:

The famous painter NN died a year ago.

--
Bertel, Denmark

Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:

> An online New York Times headline reads:
>
> "More Than a Fifth of Remaining Hostages in Gaza Are Dead, an Israeli
> Report Says"

Sounds quite possible, at the rate the killing has been going on.
I see no problem with the headline.

> My question is whether or not a deceased person can be considered to
> be a hostage. Certainly, the body can be held hostage if a payment or
> some other exchange is required to return the body.

Standard practice, in the Middle Ages.
Knights dressed up as richly as they could afford, for life insurance.
It increased their chances of being held for ransom, if taken prisoner,
rather than be killed right away.
If dead already in battle it increased the chances
that their body and gear could be bought back by their family.
Bodies, or at least body parts,
were routinely transported over great distances.

Jan

Le 06/02/2024 à 15:30, Tony Cooper a écrit :
> An online New York Times headline reads:
>
> "More Than a Fifth of Remaining Hostages in Gaza Are Dead, an Israeli
> Report Says"
>
> My question is whether or not a deceased person can be considered to
> be a hostage. Certainly, the body can be held hostage if a payment or
> some other exchange is required to return the body.
>
> It's a tricky headline to write. There are 136 people remaining who
> are known to have been taken hostage, and the report claims that 32 of
> them are now deceased.

One in four of the hostages taken in Gaza is now dead....

Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:

> Le 06/02/2024 à 15:30, Tony Cooper a écrit :
> > An online New York Times headline reads:
> >
> > "More Than a Fifth of Remaining Hostages in Gaza Are Dead, an Israeli
> > Report Says"
> >
> > My question is whether or not a deceased person can be considered to
> > be a hostage. Certainly, the body can be held hostage if a payment or
> > some other exchange is required to return the body.
> >
> > It's a tricky headline to write. There are 136 people remaining who
> > are known to have been taken hostage, and the report claims that 32 of
> > them are now deceased.
>
> One in four of the hostages taken in Gaza is now dead....

Together with more than 25 000 inhabitants of the Gaza strip...

That is more than a hundred killed Gazans for one dead hostage.
Israel has made its choices, set its priorities,
and it shouldn't complain to loudly
about the results of the choices it is making.

The relatives of those hostages are demonstrating in Tel Aviv
against their own government with good reason,

Jan

Le 07/02/2024 à 10:40, J. J. Lodder a écrit :
> Hibou wrote:
>> Le 06/02/2024 à 15:30, Tony Cooper a écrit :
>>> An online New York Times headline reads:
>>>
>>> "More Than a Fifth of Remaining Hostages in Gaza Are Dead, an Israeli
>>> Report Says"
>>>
>>> My question is whether or not a deceased person can be considered to
>>> be a hostage. Certainly, the body can be held hostage if a payment or
>>> some other exchange is required to return the body.
>>>
>>> It's a tricky headline to write. There are 136 people remaining who
>>> are known to have been taken hostage, and the report claims that 32 of
>>> them are now deceased.
>>
>> One in four of the hostages taken in Gaza is now dead....
>
> Together with more than 25 000 inhabitants of the Gaza strip...
>
> That is more than a hundred killed Gazans for one dead hostage.
> Israel has made its choices, set its priorities,
> and it shouldn't complain to loudly
> about the results of the choices it is making.
>
> The relatives of those hostages are demonstrating in Tel Aviv
> against their own government with good reason,

Well, I wasn't commenting on the politics, or the truth of the
statement, just the wording.

I don't bother much with the Middle East, just keep a weather ear open
as the news passes me by. As it happens, I do know what would help,
though I don't think anyone would be interested - namely, atheism. Much
of the tension would disappear if the sides stopped believing, the one
in God V1.0, the other in God V3.0.

Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:

> Le 07/02/2024 à 10:40, J. J. Lodder a écrit :
> > Hibou wrote:
> >> Le 06/02/2024 à 15:30, Tony Cooper a écrit :
> >>> An online New York Times headline reads:
> >>>
> >>> "More Than a Fifth of Remaining Hostages in Gaza Are Dead, an Israeli
> >>> Report Says"
> >>>
> >>> My question is whether or not a deceased person can be considered to
> >>> be a hostage. Certainly, the body can be held hostage if a payment or
> >>> some other exchange is required to return the body.
> >>>
> >>> It's a tricky headline to write. There are 136 people remaining who
> >>> are known to have been taken hostage, and the report claims that 32 of
> >>> them are now deceased.
> >>
> >> One in four of the hostages taken in Gaza is now dead....
> >
> > Together with more than 25 000 inhabitants of the Gaza strip...
> >
> > That is more than a hundred killed Gazans for one dead hostage.
> > Israel has made its choices, set its priorities,
> > and it shouldn't complain to loudly
> > about the results of the choices it is making.
> >
> > The relatives of those hostages are demonstrating in Tel Aviv
> > against their own government with good reason,
>
> Well, I wasn't commenting on the politics, or the truth of the
> statement, just the wording.
>
> I don't bother much with the Middle East, just keep a weather ear open
> as the news passes me by. As it happens, I do know what would help,
> though I don't think anyone would be interested - namely, atheism. Much
> of the tension would disappear if the sides stopped believing, the one
> in God V1.0, the other in God V3.0.

Certainly, but atheism, and rationality in general,
seems to be on the way out.
The true believers breed faster,
and the drop-out rate is too small,
(Western Europe excepted)

Jan

On 08/02/24 00:15, Hibou wrote:
>
> I don't bother much with the Middle East, just keep a weather ear
> open as the news passes me by. As it happens, I do know what would
> help, though I don't think anyone would be interested - namely,
> atheism. Much of the tension would disappear if the sides stopped
> believing, the one in God V1.0, the other in God V3.0.

Religion is dying off in many places, but only in the prosperous
countries. It's not going to happen in the middle of a war zone.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW

Le 07/02/2024 à 21:04, Peter Moylan a écrit :
> On 08/02/24 00:15, Hibou wrote:
>>
>> I don't bother much with the Middle East, just keep a weather ear
>> open as the news passes me by. As it happens, I do know what would
>> help, though I don't think anyone would be interested - namely,
>> atheism. Much of the tension would disappear if the sides stopped
>> believing, the one in God V1.0, the other in God V3.0.
>
> Religion is dying off in many places, but only in the prosperous
> countries. It's not going to happen in the middle of a war zone.

No, which is why I'm not bothering to push the idea seriously.

In general, I think the world would be a better place if children,
especially, were taught critical thinking as early as possible,
certainly before exposure to religious ideas - and conspiracy theories.

How do we know that? asks Dawkins. It's an excellent question.

Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> writes:
> Le 06/02/2024 à 15:30, Tony Cooper a écrit :
>> An online New York Times headline reads:
>>
>> "More Than a Fifth of Remaining Hostages in Gaza Are Dead, an Israeli
>> Report Says"
>>
>> My question is whether or not a deceased person can be considered to
>> be a hostage. Certainly, the body can be held hostage if a payment or
>> some other exchange is required to return the body.
>>
>> It's a tricky headline to write. There are 136 people remaining who
>> are known to have been taken hostage, and the report claims that 32 of
>> them are now deceased.
>
> One in four of the hostages taken in Gaza is now dead....

That's a different statistic, you've entirely dropped the "remaining"
part.

Phil
--
We are no longer hunters and nomads. No longer awed and frightened, as we have
gained some understanding of the world in which we live. As such, we can cast
aside childish remnants from the dawn of our civilization.
-- NotSanguine on SoylentNews, after Eugen Weber in /The Western Tradition/