i started using X-Face... i wish more people would use it.



one of the [Language Log] profs has an apt comment on
the recent trends in the use of sentence-initial [However,]



CDB wrote:

> On 12/18/2021 11:55 AM, Pamela wrote:
>> On 13:31 18 Dec 2021, CDB said:
>>> Dingbat wrote:
>>>> Pamela wrote:

>>>>> "In the past ibuprofen has helped very effectively in dealing
>>>>> with pain. However at other times ibuprofen has provided
>>>>> little benefit." Which of these two is the better punctuation
>>>>> for the last sentence?

>>>>> (1) However, at other times ibuprofen has provided little
>>>>> benefit.

>>>>> (2) However at other times, ibuprofen has provided little
>>>>> benefit.

>>>> My English teachers took exception to However with this meaning
>>>> at the start of a sentence. I had to use However only like this:

>>>> At other times, however, ibuprofen has provided little benefit.

>>>> In any event, a comma immediately follows however.

>>>> P.S. There are other meanings of However, like in: However much
>>>> you scream, no one will hear you.

>>> I agree with Dingbat's suggestion with respect to word-order: "At
>>> other times, however, ibuprofen has provided little benefit".

>> I started out with that but felt it was a bit too complicated which
>> is why I asked about the other two. I am beginning to see the merits
>> of the original. Thanks for your comments.

> If you want to keep the original order, you might change "however" to
> "nevertheless" or "on the other hand"; they have no misleaading uses.

On Sun, 10 Mar 2024 19:13:17 +0000, HenHanna <HenHanna@dev.null>
wrote:

>i started using X-Face... i wish more people would use it.

For what?

> one of the [Language Log] profs has an apt comment on
> the recent trends in the use of sentence-initial [However,]

That's nice -- what did she say?

--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

On 2024-03-15 16:58:24 +0000, Steve Hayes said:

> On Sun, 10 Mar 2024 19:13:17 +0000, HenHanna <HenHanna@dev.null>
> wrote:
>
>> i started using X-Face... i wish more people would use it.
>
> For what?
>
>> one of the [Language Log] profs has an apt comment on
>> the recent trends in the use of sentence-initial [However,]
>
> That's nice -- what did she say?

Come on Steve. You know the hen well enough to know that nothing useful
will come of this.

--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 37 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

Steve Hayes wrote:

> On Sun, 10 Mar 2024 19:13:17 +0000, HenHanna <HenHanna@dev.null>
> wrote:

>>i started using X-Face... i wish more people would use it.

> For what?

>> one of the [Language Log] profs has an apt comment on
>> the recent trends in the use of sentence-initial [However,]

> That's nice -- what did she say?

[Far from the Madding Gerund: And Other Dispatches from Language Log] by Mark Liberman, Geoffrey K. Pullum
paperback... Look at the entry on However, pp.131 -- 133

Or... Here: http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/001913.html

The battle against the less frequent variant (Sentence-initial HOWEVER) was ultimately lost, of course: in The Wall Street Journal by the late 1980s, despite the influence of the Horrid Little Book on journalists, we get about 60 second-position to 40 first-position occurrences of however.

>>>>> My English teachers took exception to However with this meaning
>>>>> at the start of a sentence.

FWIW, the CMOS:
~~~
5: Grammar and Usage
5.204: Beginning a sentence with “however”

Chapter Contents / Grammar / Conjunctions

_However_ has been used as a conjunctive adverb since the fourteenth century. Like other adverbs, it can be used at the beginning of a sentence. But _however_ is more ponderous and has less impact than the simple _but_. As a matter of style, _however_ is more effectively used within a sentence to emphasize the word or phrase that precedes it {The job seemed exciting at first. Soon, however, it turned out to be exceedingly dull.}. For purposes of euphony and flow, not of grammar, many highly accomplished writers shun the sentence-starting _however_ as a contrasting word. Yet the word is fine in that position in the sense “in whatever way” (not followed by a comma) {however that may be, we’ve now made our decision}.
~~~

--
Marius Hancu