I've recommended Ann Leckie's work before, with the /Ancillary/ series.
Good, solid science fiction, with a believable backdrop to the
plotline, not too mention excellent scenery, and characters with depth.
Intrigue and action.

I'm going to recommend her again, with a tale that also has intrigue
and action, set in the same universe, but in a different corner.
Rather like being set in Prague rather than in Beijing or Washington.
It was hard to set down, and I got through it in about 5 sessions. The
book is called _Provenance_, and I'll just hint that art auctions
suggest a reason for that title.

I seem to have been lucky with my recent choices. I mentioned Greg
Bear's _The Forge of God_ recently. I'm still amazed at how much that
gripped me once I got past the setting where laptops and BBSes were
still a novel idea.

There is also _Medusa Uploaded_ by Emily Devenport with a different
take on generation ships than _Methusala's Children_. There are aliens
in the background, and their technology has assisted the human
engineering but it's the machinations of the humans which drive the
story.

On the non-fiction side, Don Eyles wrote a memoir of working on the
Apollo project, specifically the programming of the Lunar Module.
_Sunburst and Luminary_ is named for the code packages. I don't think
you have to be a programmer to follow the engineering, which of course
is central to the story, but there is also plenty of the human side,
both with the project and out in the streets of Boston in the late
'60s. Of course, landing on the Moon is now old hat, with even Japan
and a commercial startup in Texas having done that now, and without
anyone on board to clear the warnings.

Anyway, it's all just words, words, words.

/dps

--
But happiness cannot be pursued; it must ensue. One must have a reason
to 'be happy.'"
Viktor Frankl

Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> wrote:

> I've recommended Ann Leckie's work before, with the /Ancillary/ series.
> Good, solid science fiction, with a believable backdrop to the
> plotline, not too mention excellent scenery, and characters with depth.
> Intrigue and action.
>
> I'm going to recommend her again, with a tale that also has intrigue
> and action, set in the same universe, but in a different corner.
> Rather like being set in Prague rather than in Beijing or Washington.
> It was hard to set down, and I got through it in about 5 sessions. The
> book is called _Provenance_, and I'll just hint that art auctions
> suggest a reason for that title.
>
> I seem to have been lucky with my recent choices. I mentioned Greg
> Bear's _The Forge of God_ recently. I'm still amazed at how much that
> gripped me once I got past the setting where laptops and BBSes were
> still a novel idea.
>
> There is also _Medusa Uploaded_ by Emily Devenport with a different
> take on generation ships than _Methusala's Children_. There are aliens
> in the background, and their technology has assisted the human
> engineering but it's the machinations of the humans which drive the
> story.
>
> On the non-fiction side, Don Eyles wrote a memoir of working on the
> Apollo project, specifically the programming of the Lunar Module.
> _Sunburst and Luminary_ is named for the code packages. I don't think
> you have to be a programmer to follow the engineering, which of course
> is central to the story, but there is also plenty of the human side,
> both with the project and out in the streets of Boston in the late
> '60s. Of course, landing on the Moon is now old hat, with even Japan
> and a commercial startup in Texas having done that now, and without
> anyone on board to clear the warnings.
>
> Anyway, it's all just words, words, words.
>
> /dps
>

Words are why I'm here, I like words. Thanks for the recommendations.

--
^Ï^. Sn!pe, PA, FIBS - Professional Crastinator

My pet rock Gordon has full confidence in our political masters.

On 22/03/24 10:43, Snidely wrote:
>
> There is also _Medusa Uploaded_ by Emily Devenport with a different
> take on generation ships than _Methusala's Children_. There are
> aliens in the background, and their technology has assisted the
> human engineering but it's the machinations of the humans which drive
> the story.

Partly related: I'm currently reading "Variable Star" by Robert Heinlein
and Spider Robinson. Apparently Heinlein did a detailed outline, which
his wife discovered after his death, and Robinson finished the job. That
sort of thing appears to have become fashionable lately. Arthur C Clarke
got a couple of good posthumous novels out in a similar way.

In this case the collaboration is surprisingly good. It's not easy to
imitate another writer's style, but Spider, to my surprise, manages to
make the novel look like a Heinlein novel. Now and then the illusion
breaks. Give the opportunity for a pun or a corny joke, and Spider is
after it like a dog chasing a thrown stick. He obviously can't resist
it. So for a page or two the narration degenerates into the sort of
slapstick that's typical of Spider Robinson; but then he gets his
bearings again, and drops back into a Heinlein style.

Is it a good book? I can't say until I've finished reading it. The
writing is good, but the story does drag out a bit. There are echoes of
earlier Heinlein works, most particularly "Time for the Stars", where
Heinlein got egg on his face by demonstrating too openly that he didn't
understand relativity. Anyway, I'm continuing to read the book, rather
than throwing it away, so it must have some good qualities.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW

On 22/03/2024 07:07, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 22/03/24 10:43, Snidely wrote:

> Partly related: I'm currently reading "Variable Star" by Robert Heinlein
> and Spider Robinson. Apparently Heinlein did a detailed outline, which
> his wife discovered after his death, and Robinson finished the job. That
> sort of thing appears to have become fashionable lately. Arthur C Clarke
> got a couple of good posthumous novels out in a similar way.
>
> In this case the collaboration is surprisingly good.

Interesting choice of the word 'collaboration'. <smile> Heinlein never
signed up to it, his estate did.

> It's not easy to
> imitate another writer's style, but Spider, to my surprise, manages to
> make the novel look like a Heinlein novel. Now and then the illusion
> breaks. Give the opportunity for a pun or a corny joke, and Spider is
> after it like a dog chasing a thrown stick. He obviously can't resist
> it.

<Ahem.> Can I point out that if this completion of the story been done
by an AI, that would have never happened.

> So for a page or two the narration degenerates into the sort of
> slapstick that's typical of Spider Robinson; but then he gets his
> bearings again, and drops back into a Heinlein style.
>

It would be an interesting future exercise if - with the help of AI -
the story is completed without Spider's contribution. The two stories
can then be compared by a discerning Heinlein readership. (That would
include you Peter.)

On 22/03/24 18:06, occam wrote:
> On 22/03/2024 07:07, Peter Moylan wrote:
>> On 22/03/24 10:43, Snidely wrote:
>
>> Partly related: I'm currently reading "Variable Star" by Robert
>> Heinlein and Spider Robinson. Apparently Heinlein did a detailed
>> outline, which his wife discovered after his death, and Robinson
>> finished the job. That sort of thing appears to have become
>> fashionable lately. Arthur C Clarke got a couple of good posthumous
>> novels out in a similar way.
>>
>> In this case the collaboration is surprisingly good.
>
> Interesting choice of the word 'collaboration'. <smile> Heinlein
> never signed up to it, his estate did.
>
>> It's not easy to imitate another writer's style, but Spider, to my
>> surprise, manages to make the novel look like a Heinlein novel.
>> Now and then the illusion breaks. Give the opportunity for a pun
>> or a corny joke, and Spider is after it like a dog chasing a thrown
>> stick. He obviously can't resist it.
>
> <Ahem.> Can I point out that if this completion of the story been
> done by an AI, that would have never happened.
>
>> So for a page or two the narration degenerates into the sort of
>> slapstick that's typical of Spider Robinson; but then he gets his
>> bearings again, and drops back into a Heinlein style.
>
> It would be an interesting future exercise if - with the help of AI
> - the story is completed without Spider's contribution. The two
> stories can then be compared by a discerning Heinlein readership.
> (That would include you Peter.)

Based on the samples Stefan has been feeding us, I don't expect the
present crop of AIs to win any "best novel" awards.

Could this kind of AI imitate Heinlein's style? Probably. Would the
result be worth reading? I doubt it. Skill at plagiarism -- and I
concede that this is one of the greatest strengths of these machines --
does not guarantee other literary skills.

Have you read any of the "Man-Kzin wars" stories? They use Niven's
invention, but are utter crap when compared with what Niven wrote.

By the way, I didn't intend to put down Spider Robinson. I know that I
would be incapable of imitating the style of any known writer. He's done
something that would be beyond most of us.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW

On 2024-03-22, Peter Moylan wrote:

> On 22/03/24 10:43, Snidely wrote:
>>
>> There is also _Medusa Uploaded_ by Emily Devenport with a different
>> take on generation ships than _Methusala's Children_. There are
>> aliens in the background, and their technology has assisted the
>> human engineering but it's the machinations of the humans which drive
>> the story.
>
> Partly related: I'm currently reading "Variable Star" by Robert Heinlein
> and Spider Robinson. Apparently Heinlein did a detailed outline, which
> his wife discovered after his death, and Robinson finished the job. That
> sort of thing appears to have become fashionable lately. Arthur C Clarke
> got a couple of good posthumous novels out in a similar way.

I've only read 4 of Thorne Smith's books, but _The Passionate Witch_,
which someone else finished after his death, seemed a lot less
interesting & fun to read than the others. There's an indirect link
from that book to the TV show _Bewitched_, but the witch in the book
is malevolent.

--
With the breakdown of the medieval system, the gods of chaos, lunacy,
and bad taste gained ascendancy. ---Ignatius J Reilly

On 2024-03-22, Peter Moylan wrote:

> On 22/03/24 10:43, Snidely wrote:
>>
>> There is also _Medusa Uploaded_ by Emily Devenport with a different
>> take on generation ships than _Methusala's Children_. There are
>> aliens in the background, and their technology has assisted the
>> human engineering but it's the machinations of the humans which drive
>> the story.
>
> Partly related: I'm currently reading "Variable Star" by Robert Heinlein
> and Spider Robinson. Apparently Heinlein did a detailed outline, which
> his wife discovered after his death, and Robinson finished the job. That
> sort of thing appears to have become fashionable lately. Arthur C Clarke
> got a couple of good posthumous novels out in a similar way.
>
> In this case the collaboration is surprisingly good. It's not easy to
> imitate another writer's style, but Spider, to my surprise, manages to
> make the novel look like a Heinlein novel. Now and then the illusion
> breaks. Give the opportunity for a pun or a corny joke, and Spider is
> after it like a dog chasing a thrown stick. He obviously can't resist
> it. So for a page or two the narration degenerates into the sort of
> slapstick that's typical of Spider Robinson; but then he gets his
> bearings again, and drops back into a Heinlein style.

On a related note (I may have mentioned this here before), stylometry
strongly suggests that James Patterson's co-authored novels are
outlined by Patterson & written mainly by the co-authors.

<http://www.digitalhumanities.org/dhq/vol/11/1/000286/000286.html>

I don't think that's a bad thing. By sharing his name & reputation
with new authors, he's helping them get into the market.

--
Before my great conversion when the ridge was closed
Before my visit to the workshop of telescopes

Peter Moylan wrote:

> On 22/03/24 10:43, Snidely wrote:
>>
>> There is also _Medusa Uploaded_ by Emily Devenport with a different
>> take on generation ships than _Methusala's Children_. There are
>> aliens in the background, and their technology has assisted the
>> human engineering but it's the machinations of the humans which drive
>> the story.

> Partly related: I'm currently reading "Variable Star" by Robert Heinlein
> and Spider Robinson. Apparently Heinlein did a detailed outline, which
> his wife discovered after his death, and Robinson finished the job. That
> sort of thing appears to have become fashionable lately. Arthur C Clarke
> got a couple of good posthumous novels out in a similar way.

> In this case the collaboration is surprisingly good. It's not easy to
> imitate another writer's style, but Spider, to my surprise, manages to
> make the novel look like a Heinlein novel. Now and then the illusion
> breaks. Give the opportunity for a pun or a corny joke, and Spider is
> after it like a dog chasing a thrown stick. He obviously can't resist
> it. So for a page or two the narration degenerates into the sort of
> slapstick that's typical of Spider Robinson; but then he gets his
> bearings again, and drops back into a Heinlein style.

The overblown (sorry) digression on circular breathing struck me as
pure Robinson.

> Is it a good book? I can't say until I've finished reading it. The
> writing is good, but the story does drag out a bit. There are echoes of
> earlier Heinlein works, most particularly "Time for the Stars", where
> Heinlein got egg on his face by demonstrating too openly that he didn't
> understand relativity. Anyway, I'm continuing to read the book, rather
> than throwing it away, so it must have some good qualities.

I finished it.

--
Jerry Friedman

On 23/03/24 00:31, jerryfriedman wrote:
> Peter Moylan wrote:
>> On 22/03/24 10:43, Snidely wrote:
>>>
>>> There is also _Medusa Uploaded_ by Emily Devenport with a
>>> different take on generation ships than _Methusala's Children_.
>>> There are aliens in the background, and their technology has
>>> assisted the human engineering but it's the machinations of the
>>> humans which drive the story.
>
>> Partly related: I'm currently reading "Variable Star" by Robert
>> Heinlein and Spider Robinson. Apparently Heinlein did a detailed
>> outline, which his wife discovered after his death, and Robinson
>> finished the job. That sort of thing appears to have become
>> fashionable lately. Arthur C Clarke got a couple of good posthumous
>> novels out in a similar way.
>
>> In this case the collaboration is surprisingly good. It's not easy
>> to imitate another writer's style, but Spider, to my surprise,
>> manages to make the novel look like a Heinlein novel. Now and then
>> the illusion breaks. Give the opportunity for a pun or a corny
>> joke, and Spider is after it like a dog chasing a thrown stick. He
>> obviously can't resist it. So for a page or two the narration
>> degenerates into the sort of slapstick that's typical of Spider
>> Robinson; but then he gets his bearings again, and drops back into
>> a Heinlein style.
>
> The overblown (sorry) digression on circular breathing struck me as
> pure Robinson.

It is, and so is the frequent intrusion of saxophones into the story.
But that was OK with me, because I've never quite given up my ambition
to be able to play the didgeridoo.

>> Is it a good book? I can't say until I've finished reading it. The
>> writing is good, but the story does drag out a bit. There are
>> echoes of earlier Heinlein works, most particularly "Time for the
>> Stars", where Heinlein got egg on his face by demonstrating too
>> openly that he didn't understand relativity. Anyway, I'm continuing
>> to read the book, rather than throwing it away, so it must have
>> some good qualities.
>
> I finished it.

I'm now close to finishing it, and I have to say that the unexpected
surprises turned a novel that could have been boring into a good book.
(Sorry, I won't supply spoilers.) So I'll stick with my original
judgement of "a successful collaboration".

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW

On 23/03/24 00:13, Adam Funk wrote:
> On 2024-03-22, Peter Moylan wrote:
>
>> On 22/03/24 10:43, Snidely wrote:
>>>
>>> There is also _Medusa Uploaded_ by Emily Devenport with a
>>> different take on generation ships than _Methusala's Children_.
>>> There are aliens in the background, and their technology has
>>> assisted the human engineering but it's the machinations of the
>>> humans which drive the story.
>>
>> Partly related: I'm currently reading "Variable Star" by Robert
>> Heinlein and Spider Robinson. Apparently Heinlein did a detailed
>> outline, which his wife discovered after his death, and Robinson
>> finished the job. That sort of thing appears to have become
>> fashionable lately. Arthur C Clarke got a couple of good posthumous
>> novels out in a similar way.
>>
>> In this case the collaboration is surprisingly good. It's not easy
>> to imitate another writer's style, but Spider, to my surprise,
>> manages to make the novel look like a Heinlein novel. Now and then
>> the illusion breaks. Give the opportunity for a pun or a corny
>> joke, and Spider is after it like a dog chasing a thrown stick. He
>> obviously can't resist it. So for a page or two the narration
>> degenerates into the sort of slapstick that's typical of Spider
>> Robinson; but then he gets his bearings again, and drops back into
>> a Heinlein style.
>
> On a related note (I may have mentioned this here before),
> stylometry strongly suggests that James Patterson's co-authored
> novels are outlined by Patterson & written mainly by the co-authors.
>
> <http://www.digitalhumanities.org/dhq/vol/11/1/000286/000286.html>
>
> I don't think that's a bad thing. By sharing his name & reputation
> with new authors, he's helping them get into the market.

Larry Niven has been especially good at helping new authors by
co-writing with them. Some names that spring to mind are Jerry
Pournelle, David Gerrold, and Steve Barnes. /The Flying Sorcerers/ is
still my favourite example of SF comedy. As far as I can tell, those
joint works seem to have been genuinely co-written. But Niven has also
lent his name, but not his writing skill, to a number of books that
turned out to be great disappointments.

Isaac Asimov's name also appears on the covers of a lot of second-rate
books. He provided only his name and nothing else in those cases.

Speaking of Asimov, I can thoroughly recommend /I, Robot: to protect/,
by Mickey Zucker Reichert. Asimov had nothing to do with that one,
although his estate authorised it. All that he supplied was half the
title, the name of the principal character (Susan Calvin), and the
concept of the positronic robot. The book makes it clear that Reichert
is a far better writer than Asimov ever was.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW

On 22-Mar-24 22:54, Peter Moylan wrote:
> But that was OK with me, because I've never quite given up my ambition
> to be able to play the didgeridoo.

I wonder if a two-player didgeridoo would be possible? With proper
coordination, the need for circular breathing could be overcome.

--
Sam Plusnet

On 23/03/24 13:34, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> On 22-Mar-24 22:54, Peter Moylan wrote:

>> But that was OK with me, because I've never quite given up my ambition
>> to be able to play the didgeridoo.
>
> I wonder if a two-player didgeridoo would be possible? With proper
> coordination, the need for circular breathing could be overcome.

A Y-shaped didgeridoo? You might end up blowing air into your partner's
mouth.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW

Sam Plusnet wrote:

> On 22-Mar-24 22:54, Peter Moylan wrote:
> > But that was OK with me, because I've never quite given up
> > my ambition to be able to play the didgeridoo.
>
> I wonder if a two-player didgeridoo would be possible? With
> proper coordination, the need for circular breathing could be
> overcome.

If Rolf never had a two-player didgeridoo, it ain't a thing!

On 23-Mar-24 3:52, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 23/03/24 13:34, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>> On 22-Mar-24 22:54, Peter Moylan wrote:
>
>>> But that was OK with me, because I've never quite given up my ambition
>>> to be able to play the didgeridoo.
>>
>> I wonder if a two-player didgeridoo would be possible?  With proper
>> coordination, the need for circular breathing could be overcome.
>
> A Y-shaped didgeridoo? You might end up blowing air into your partner's
> mouth.

OK, you would need two well coordinated people who are close friends.

--
Sam Plusnet

Sam Plusnet wrote:

>> A Y-shaped didgeridoo? You might end up blowing air into your partner's
>> mouth.
>
> OK, you would need two well coordinated people who are close friends.

Or valves.

--
Bertel, Denmark

Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:

> Sam Plusnet wrote:

>>> A Y-shaped didgeridoo? You might end up blowing air into your partner's
>>> mouth.
>>
>> OK, you would need two well coordinated people who are close friends.

> Or valves.

Maybe you could set up some kind of flexible air reservoir that the player
could keep full by blowing into it. If it were, say, under the player's elbow,
air could be forced from it into the pipe as needed. Hey, you could even
have more than one pipe coming out of it!

--
Jerry Friedman

jerryfriedman <jerry.friedman99@gmail.com> wrote:

> Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
>
> > Sam Plusnet wrote:
>
> >>> A Y-shaped didgeridoo? You might end up blowing air
> >>> into your partner's mouth.
> >>
> >> OK, you would need two well coordinated people who are close friends.
>
> > Or valves.
>
> Maybe you could set up some kind of flexible air reservoir that the
> player could keep full by blowing into it. If it were, say, under the
> player's elbow, air could be forced from it into the pipe as needed.
> Hey, you could even have more than one pipe coming out of it!

That smacks of a cross between a haggis and a Hoover.

--
^Ï^. Sn!pe, PA, FIBS - Professional Crastinator

My pet rock Gordon has full confidence in our political masters.

On 24-Mar-24 14:22, jerryfriedman wrote:
> Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
>
>> Sam Plusnet wrote:
>
>>>> A Y-shaped didgeridoo? You might end up blowing air into your
>>>> partner's mouth.
>>>
>>> OK, you would need two well coordinated people who are close friends.
>
>> Or valves.
>
> Maybe you could set up some kind of flexible air reservoir that the player
> could keep full by blowing into it.  If it were, say, under the player's
> elbow,
> air could be forced from it into the pipe as needed.  Hey, you could even
> have more than one pipe coming out of it!

It would probably just make a droning noise, but enough of this chanter.

--
Sam Plusnet

In article <20186bf0346d01ffe2a8777eecd7d614@www.novabbs.com>,
jerryfriedman <jerry.friedman99@gmail.com> wrote:
> Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:

> > Sam Plusnet wrote:

> >>> A Y-shaped didgeridoo? You might end up blowing air into your
> >>> partner's mouth.
> >>
> >> OK, you would need two well coordinated people who are close friends.

> > Or valves.

> Maybe you could set up some kind of flexible air reservoir that the
> player could keep full by blowing into it. If it were, say, under the
> player's elbow, air could be forced from it into the pipe as needed.
> Hey, you could even have more than one pipe coming out of it!

I think you'll find that some one has already has that idea.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té²
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 25/03/24 01:22, jerryfriedman wrote:
> Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
>> Sam Plusnet wrote:
>
>>>> A Y-shaped didgeridoo? You might end up blowing air into your
>>>> partner's mouth.
>>>
>>> OK, you would need two well coordinated people who are close
>>> friends.
>
>> Or valves.
>
> Maybe you could set up some kind of flexible air reservoir that the
> player could keep full by blowing into it. If it were, say, under
> the player's elbow, air could be forced from it into the pipe as
> needed. Hey, you could even have more than one pipe coming out of
> it!

I might have said this before, but ...

The Irish claim that they invented bagpipes, and then sold the idea to
the Scots. And that the Scots never realised that it was a joke.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW

On 2024-03-22, Peter Moylan wrote:

> On 23/03/24 00:13, Adam Funk wrote:
>> On 2024-03-22, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>
>>> On 22/03/24 10:43, Snidely wrote:
>>>>
>>>> There is also _Medusa Uploaded_ by Emily Devenport with a
>>>> different take on generation ships than _Methusala's Children_.
>>>> There are aliens in the background, and their technology has
>>>> assisted the human engineering but it's the machinations of the
>>>> humans which drive the story.
>>>
>>> Partly related: I'm currently reading "Variable Star" by Robert
>>> Heinlein and Spider Robinson. Apparently Heinlein did a detailed
>>> outline, which his wife discovered after his death, and Robinson
>>> finished the job. That sort of thing appears to have become
>>> fashionable lately. Arthur C Clarke got a couple of good posthumous
>>> novels out in a similar way.
>>>
>>> In this case the collaboration is surprisingly good. It's not easy
>>> to imitate another writer's style, but Spider, to my surprise,
>>> manages to make the novel look like a Heinlein novel. Now and then
>>> the illusion breaks. Give the opportunity for a pun or a corny
>>> joke, and Spider is after it like a dog chasing a thrown stick. He
>>> obviously can't resist it. So for a page or two the narration
>>> degenerates into the sort of slapstick that's typical of Spider
>>> Robinson; but then he gets his bearings again, and drops back into
>>> a Heinlein style.
>>
>> On a related note (I may have mentioned this here before),
>> stylometry strongly suggests that James Patterson's co-authored
>> novels are outlined by Patterson & written mainly by the co-authors.
>>
>> <http://www.digitalhumanities.org/dhq/vol/11/1/000286/000286.html>
>>
>> I don't think that's a bad thing. By sharing his name & reputation
>> with new authors, he's helping them get into the market.
>
> Larry Niven has been especially good at helping new authors by
> co-writing with them. Some names that spring to mind are Jerry
> Pournelle, David Gerrold, and Steve Barnes. /The Flying Sorcerers/ is
> still my favourite example of SF comedy. As far as I can tell, those
> joint works seem to have been genuinely co-written. But Niven has also
> lent his name, but not his writing skill, to a number of books that
> turned out to be great disappointments.

I think the only David Gerrold book I've read is the one about the
writing and development of "The Trouble with Tribbles". (Of course
I've seen that episode, which he also wrote.)

> Isaac Asimov's name also appears on the covers of a lot of second-rate
> books. He provided only his name and nothing else in those cases.
>
> Speaking of Asimov, I can thoroughly recommend /I, Robot: to protect/,
> by Mickey Zucker Reichert. Asimov had nothing to do with that one,
> although his estate authorised it. All that he supplied was half the
> title, the name of the principal character (Susan Calvin), and the
> concept of the positronic robot. The book makes it clear that Reichert
> is a far better writer than Asimov ever was.

It's been a long time since I read any Asimov, but ISTR that his
non-fiction was good.

--
But the government always tries to coax well-known writers into the
Establishment; it makes them feel educated. ---Robert Graves

On 2024-03-25 10:29:08 +0000, Adam Funk said:

> On 2024-03-22, Peter Moylan wrote:
>
>> On 23/03/24 00:13, Adam Funk wrote:
>>> On 2024-03-22, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 22/03/24 10:43, Snidely wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> There is also _Medusa Uploaded_ by Emily Devenport with a
>>>>> different take on generation ships than _Methusala's Children_.
>>>>> There are aliens in the background, and their technology has
>>>>> assisted the human engineering but it's the machinations of the
>>>>> humans which drive the story.
>>>>
>>>> Partly related: I'm currently reading "Variable Star" by Robert
>>>> Heinlein and Spider Robinson. Apparently Heinlein did a detailed
>>>> outline, which his wife discovered after his death, and Robinson
>>>> finished the job. That sort of thing appears to have become
>>>> fashionable lately. Arthur C Clarke got a couple of good posthumous
>>>> novels out in a similar way.
>>>>
>>>> In this case the collaboration is surprisingly good. It's not easy
>>>> to imitate another writer's style, but Spider, to my surprise,
>>>> manages to make the novel look like a Heinlein novel. Now and then
>>>> the illusion breaks. Give the opportunity for a pun or a corny
>>>> joke, and Spider is after it like a dog chasing a thrown stick. He
>>>> obviously can't resist it. So for a page or two the narration
>>>> degenerates into the sort of slapstick that's typical of Spider
>>>> Robinson; but then he gets his bearings again, and drops back into
>>>> a Heinlein style.
>>>
>>> On a related note (I may have mentioned this here before),
>>> stylometry strongly suggests that James Patterson's co-authored
>>> novels are outlined by Patterson & written mainly by the co-authors.
>>>
>>> <http://www.digitalhumanities.org/dhq/vol/11/1/000286/000286.html>
>>>
>>> I don't think that's a bad thing. By sharing his name & reputation
>>> with new authors, he's helping them get into the market.
>>
>> Larry Niven has been especially good at helping new authors by
>> co-writing with them. Some names that spring to mind are Jerry
>> Pournelle, David Gerrold, and Steve Barnes. /The Flying Sorcerers/ is
>> still my favourite example of SF comedy. As far as I can tell, those
>> joint works seem to have been genuinely co-written. But Niven has also
>> lent his name, but not his writing skill, to a number of books that
>> turned out to be great disappointments.
>
> I think the only David Gerrold book I've read is the one about the
> writing and development of "The Trouble with Tribbles". (Of course
> I've seen that episode, which he also wrote.)
>
>
>> Isaac Asimov's name also appears on the covers of a lot of second-rate
>> books. He provided only his name and nothing else in those cases.
>>
>> Speaking of Asimov, I can thoroughly recommend /I, Robot: to protect/,
>> by Mickey Zucker Reichert. Asimov had nothing to do with that one,
>> although his estate authorised it. All that he supplied was half the
>> title, the name of the principal character (Susan Calvin), and the
>> concept of the positronic robot. The book makes it clear that Reichert
>> is a far better writer than Asimov ever was.
>
> It's been a long time since I read any Asimov, but ISTR that his
> non-fiction was good.

I haven't read his fiction, but I agree that his non-fiction was good.
I haven't managed to see his biochemistry textbook yet, but I suspect I
would find it very old-fashioned.

--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 37 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

On 2024-03-25, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:

> On 2024-03-25 10:29:08 +0000, Adam Funk said:
>
>> On 2024-03-22, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>
>>> On 23/03/24 00:13, Adam Funk wrote:
>>>> On 2024-03-22, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 22/03/24 10:43, Snidely wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is also _Medusa Uploaded_ by Emily Devenport with a
>>>>>> different take on generation ships than _Methusala's Children_.
>>>>>> There are aliens in the background, and their technology has
>>>>>> assisted the human engineering but it's the machinations of the
>>>>>> humans which drive the story.
>>>>>
>>>>> Partly related: I'm currently reading "Variable Star" by Robert
>>>>> Heinlein and Spider Robinson. Apparently Heinlein did a detailed
>>>>> outline, which his wife discovered after his death, and Robinson
>>>>> finished the job. That sort of thing appears to have become
>>>>> fashionable lately. Arthur C Clarke got a couple of good posthumous
>>>>> novels out in a similar way.
>>>>>
>>>>> In this case the collaboration is surprisingly good. It's not easy
>>>>> to imitate another writer's style, but Spider, to my surprise,
>>>>> manages to make the novel look like a Heinlein novel. Now and then
>>>>> the illusion breaks. Give the opportunity for a pun or a corny
>>>>> joke, and Spider is after it like a dog chasing a thrown stick. He
>>>>> obviously can't resist it. So for a page or two the narration
>>>>> degenerates into the sort of slapstick that's typical of Spider
>>>>> Robinson; but then he gets his bearings again, and drops back into
>>>>> a Heinlein style.
>>>>
>>>> On a related note (I may have mentioned this here before),
>>>> stylometry strongly suggests that James Patterson's co-authored
>>>> novels are outlined by Patterson & written mainly by the co-authors.
>>>>
>>>> <http://www.digitalhumanities.org/dhq/vol/11/1/000286/000286.html>
>>>>
>>>> I don't think that's a bad thing. By sharing his name & reputation
>>>> with new authors, he's helping them get into the market.
>>>
>>> Larry Niven has been especially good at helping new authors by
>>> co-writing with them. Some names that spring to mind are Jerry
>>> Pournelle, David Gerrold, and Steve Barnes. /The Flying Sorcerers/ is
>>> still my favourite example of SF comedy. As far as I can tell, those
>>> joint works seem to have been genuinely co-written. But Niven has also
>>> lent his name, but not his writing skill, to a number of books that
>>> turned out to be great disappointments.
>>
>> I think the only David Gerrold book I've read is the one about the
>> writing and development of "The Trouble with Tribbles". (Of course
>> I've seen that episode, which he also wrote.)
>>
>>
>>> Isaac Asimov's name also appears on the covers of a lot of second-rate
>>> books. He provided only his name and nothing else in those cases.
>>>
>>> Speaking of Asimov, I can thoroughly recommend /I, Robot: to protect/,
>>> by Mickey Zucker Reichert. Asimov had nothing to do with that one,
>>> although his estate authorised it. All that he supplied was half the
>>> title, the name of the principal character (Susan Calvin), and the
>>> concept of the positronic robot. The book makes it clear that Reichert
>>> is a far better writer than Asimov ever was.
>>
>> It's been a long time since I read any Asimov, but ISTR that his
>> non-fiction was good.
>
> I haven't read his fiction, but I agree that his non-fiction was good.
> I haven't managed to see his biochemistry textbook yet, but I suspect I
> would find it very old-fashioned.

From his WP article, I'm guessing you mean as co-author of
_Biochemistry and Human Metabolism_ ca.1957, so I imagine it's out of
date now to say the least.

--
Oh let the sun beat down upon my face
with stars to fill my dreams
I am a traveller of both time and space
to be where I have been

On Mon, 25 Mar 2024 10:29:08 +0000
Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> wrote:

> On 2024-03-22, Peter Moylan wrote:
>
> > On 23/03/24 00:13, Adam Funk wrote:
> >> On 2024-03-22, Peter Moylan wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 22/03/24 10:43, Snidely wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> There is also _Medusa Uploaded_ by Emily Devenport with a
> >>>> different take on generation ships than _Methusala's Children_.
> >>>> There are aliens in the background, and their technology has
> >>>> assisted the human engineering but it's the machinations of the
> >>>> humans which drive the story.
> >>>
> >>> Partly related: I'm currently reading "Variable Star" by Robert
> >>> Heinlein and Spider Robinson. Apparently Heinlein did a detailed
> >>> outline, which his wife discovered after his death, and Robinson
> >>> finished the job. That sort of thing appears to have become
> >>> fashionable lately. Arthur C Clarke got a couple of good posthumous
> >>> novels out in a similar way.
> >>>
> >>> In this case the collaboration is surprisingly good. It's not easy
> >>> to imitate another writer's style, but Spider, to my surprise,
> >>> manages to make the novel look like a Heinlein novel. Now and then
> >>> the illusion breaks. Give the opportunity for a pun or a corny
> >>> joke, and Spider is after it like a dog chasing a thrown stick. He
> >>> obviously can't resist it. So for a page or two the narration
> >>> degenerates into the sort of slapstick that's typical of Spider
> >>> Robinson; but then he gets his bearings again, and drops back into
> >>> a Heinlein style.
> >>
> >> On a related note (I may have mentioned this here before),
> >> stylometry strongly suggests that James Patterson's co-authored
> >> novels are outlined by Patterson & written mainly by the co-authors.
> >>
> >> <http://www.digitalhumanities.org/dhq/vol/11/1/000286/000286.html>
> >>
> >> I don't think that's a bad thing. By sharing his name & reputation
> >> with new authors, he's helping them get into the market.
> >
> > Larry Niven has been especially good at helping new authors by
> > co-writing with them. Some names that spring to mind are Jerry
> > Pournelle, David Gerrold, and Steve Barnes. /The Flying Sorcerers/ is
> > still my favourite example of SF comedy. As far as I can tell, those
> > joint works seem to have been genuinely co-written. But Niven has also
> > lent his name, but not his writing skill, to a number of books that
> > turned out to be great disappointments.
>
> I think the only David Gerrold book I've read is the one about the
> writing and development of "The Trouble with Tribbles". (Of course
> I've seen that episode, which he also wrote.)
>
>
> > Isaac Asimov's name also appears on the covers of a lot of second-rate
> > books. He provided only his name and nothing else in those cases.
> >
> > Speaking of Asimov, I can thoroughly recommend /I, Robot: to protect/,
> > by Mickey Zucker Reichert. Asimov had nothing to do with that one,
> > although his estate authorised it. All that he supplied was half the
> > title, the name of the principal character (Susan Calvin), and the
> > concept of the positronic robot. The book makes it clear that Reichert
> > is a far better writer than Asimov ever was.
>
> It's been a long time since I read any Asimov, but ISTR that his
> non-fiction was good.
>

Spoiler - too late!

Asimov wrote a whole story to get to the punchline about a starmangled
spanner.

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

On 25/03/2024 13:02, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Mar 2024 10:29:08 +0000
> Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2024-03-22, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>
>>> On 23/03/24 00:13, Adam Funk wrote:
>>>> On 2024-03-22, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 22/03/24 10:43, Snidely wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is also _Medusa Uploaded_ by Emily Devenport with a
>>>>>> different take on generation ships than _Methusala's Children_.
>>>>>> There are aliens in the background, and their technology has
>>>>>> assisted the human engineering but it's the machinations of the
>>>>>> humans which drive the story.
>>>>>
>>>>> Partly related: I'm currently reading "Variable Star" by Robert
>>>>> Heinlein and Spider Robinson. Apparently Heinlein did a detailed
>>>>> outline, which his wife discovered after his death, and Robinson
>>>>> finished the job. That sort of thing appears to have become
>>>>> fashionable lately. Arthur C Clarke got a couple of good posthumous
>>>>> novels out in a similar way.
>>>>>
>>>>> In this case the collaboration is surprisingly good. It's not easy
>>>>> to imitate another writer's style, but Spider, to my surprise,
>>>>> manages to make the novel look like a Heinlein novel. Now and then
>>>>> the illusion breaks. Give the opportunity for a pun or a corny
>>>>> joke, and Spider is after it like a dog chasing a thrown stick. He
>>>>> obviously can't resist it. So for a page or two the narration
>>>>> degenerates into the sort of slapstick that's typical of Spider
>>>>> Robinson; but then he gets his bearings again, and drops back into
>>>>> a Heinlein style.
>>>>
>>>> On a related note (I may have mentioned this here before),
>>>> stylometry strongly suggests that James Patterson's co-authored
>>>> novels are outlined by Patterson & written mainly by the co-authors.
>>>>
>>>> <http://www.digitalhumanities.org/dhq/vol/11/1/000286/000286.html>
>>>>
>>>> I don't think that's a bad thing. By sharing his name & reputation
>>>> with new authors, he's helping them get into the market.
>>>
>>> Larry Niven has been especially good at helping new authors by
>>> co-writing with them. Some names that spring to mind are Jerry
>>> Pournelle, David Gerrold, and Steve Barnes. /The Flying Sorcerers/ is
>>> still my favourite example of SF comedy. As far as I can tell, those
>>> joint works seem to have been genuinely co-written. But Niven has also
>>> lent his name, but not his writing skill, to a number of books that
>>> turned out to be great disappointments.
>>
>> I think the only David Gerrold book I've read is the one about the
>> writing and development of "The Trouble with Tribbles". (Of course
>> I've seen that episode, which he also wrote.)
>>
>>
>>> Isaac Asimov's name also appears on the covers of a lot of second-rate
>>> books. He provided only his name and nothing else in those cases.
>>>
>>> Speaking of Asimov, I can thoroughly recommend /I, Robot: to protect/,
>>> by Mickey Zucker Reichert. Asimov had nothing to do with that one,
>>> although his estate authorised it. All that he supplied was half the
>>> title, the name of the principal character (Susan Calvin), and the
>>> concept of the positronic robot. The book makes it clear that Reichert
>>> is a far better writer than Asimov ever was.
>>
>> It's been a long time since I read any Asimov, but ISTR that his
>> non-fiction was good.
>>
>
> Spoiler - too late!
>
> Asimov wrote a whole story to get to the punchline about a starmangled
> spanner.
>
No, that was Arthur C Clarke and the story was only 2 pages long.

--
Ray
UK