I have a question about the following sentences from a novel.

She is pretty but not in a way that Lucy finds appealing. She looks very rich and pampered and addicted to Botox, collagen, thermal treatments, whatever new magic is offered by the dermatologist. It may have been years since she was able to frown.
("Trace" by Patricia Cornwell, p115)

context (or situation):
1) Florida, near the beach
2) Lucy is visiting a woman living in neighbourhood whom she has never talked with.

question: about "It may have been years since she was able to frown."
This must mean obviously: It may have been years since she was able to frown "the last time".
Why is "last" omitted?
Because I have seen this sentence pattern with "since" a few times.

On Tue, 26 Mar 2024 22:10:33 +0000, musatokyo@juno.ocn.ne.jp (tonbei)
wrote:

>I have a question about the following sentences from a novel.
>
>She is pretty but not in a way that Lucy finds appealing. She looks very rich and pampered and addicted to Botox, collagen, thermal treatments, whatever new magic is offered by the dermatologist. It may have been years since she was able to frown.
>("Trace" by Patricia Cornwell, p115)
>
>context (or situation):
>1) Florida, near the beach
>2) Lucy is visiting a woman living in neighbourhood whom she has never talked with.
>
>question: about "It may have been years since she was able to frown."
>This must mean obviously: It may have been years since she was able to frown "the last time".
>Why is "last" omitted?

Because it is neither needed nor an improvement.

The statement refers to the result of receiving Botox injections.

>Because I have seen this sentence pattern with "since" a few times.

On 27/03/24 09:10, tonbei wrote:

> I have a question about the following sentences from a novel.
>
> She is pretty but not in a way that Lucy finds appealing. She looks
> very rich and pampered and addicted to Botox, collagen, thermal
> treatments, whatever new magic is offered by the dermatologist. It
> may have been years since she was able to frown. ("Trace" by Patricia
> Cornwell, p115)
>
> context (or situation): 1) Florida, near the beach 2) Lucy is
> visiting a woman living in neighbourhood whom she has never talked
> with.
>
> question: about "It may have been years since she was able to
> frown." This must mean obviously: It may have been years since she
> was able to frown "the last time". Why is "last" omitted? Because I
> have seen this sentence pattern with "since" a few times.

"For the last time" is omitted because it is redundant. It was also
years since she was able to frown for the second-last time, and for the
third-last time, and so on, but why bother giving all that detail?

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW

Peter Moylan wrote:

> On 27/03/24 09:10, tonbei wrote:

>> I have a question about the following sentences from a novel.
>>
>> She is pretty but not in a way that Lucy finds appealing. She looks
>> very rich and pampered and addicted to Botox, collagen, thermal
>> treatments, whatever new magic is offered by the dermatologist. It
>> may have been years since she was able to frown. ("Trace" by Patricia
>> Cornwell, p115)
>>
>> context (or situation): 1) Florida, near the beach 2) Lucy is
>> visiting a woman living in neighbourhood whom she has never talked
>> with.
>>
>> question: about "It may have been years since she was able to
>> frown." This must mean obviously: It may have been years since she
>> was able to frown "the last time". Why is "last" omitted? Because I
>> have seen this sentence pattern with "since" a few times.

> "For the last time" is omitted because it is redundant. It was also
> years since she was able to frown for the second-last time, and for the
> third-last time, and so on, but why bother giving all that detail?

Other details omitted are:

It may have been years since she was able to frown (in front of the mirror)

It may have been years since she was able to frown (in front of her close friends)

It may have been years since she was able to frown (while talking to her posh, pet dog)

Don't you think it would be clearer if you say: It may have been years since she became unable to able to frown.

1) It may have been years since she was able to frown.
2) It may have been years since she became unable to frown.

1) and 2) are of the same meaning ?

"Tonbei":
> > She is pretty but not in a way that Lucy finds appealing. She looks
> > very rich and pampered and addicted to Botox, collagen, thermal
> > treatments, whatever new magic is offered by the dermatologist. It
> > may have been years since she was able to frown. ("Trace" by Patricia
> > Cornwell, p115)

> > ... This must mean obviously: It may have been years since she
> > was able to frown "the last time". Why is "last" omitted? Because I
> > have seen this sentence pattern with "since" a few times.

Peter Moylan:
> "For the last time" is omitted because it is redundant.

In such an expression, "since" may refer either to a specific event
in the past or to an extended period, which might be defined as the
time when some fact was true.

It has been about 60 years since Pierre Trudeau resigned.
It has been about 60 years since Pierre Trudeau was Prime Minister.

Cornwell's sentence is of the second kind, but Tonbei is trying to
rewrite it as the other kind.
--
Mark Brader | "The nice thing about standards is
Toronto | that you have so many to choose from..."
msb@vex.net | --Andrew Tanenbaum

My text in this article is in the public domain.

I mean 40 years, of course.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto "More importantly, Mark is just plain wrong."
msb@vex.net -- John Hollingsworth

Tue, 26 Mar 2024 22:10:33 +0000: musatokyo@juno.ocn.ne.jp (tonbei)
scribeva:

>I have a question about the following sentences from a novel.
>
>She is pretty but not in a way that Lucy finds appealing. She looks very rich and pampered and addicted to Botox, collagen, thermal treatments, whatever new magic is offered by the dermatologist. It may have been years since she was able to frown.
>("Trace" by Patricia Cornwell, p115)
>
>context (or situation):
>1) Florida, near the beach
>2) Lucy is visiting a woman living in neighbourhood whom she has never talked with.
>
>question: about "It may have been years since she was able to frown."
>This must mean obviously: It may have been years since she was able to frown "the last time".
>Why is "last" omitted?

Because "since" already carries that meaning.
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/since
since = since that time.
(Sense 4)

>Because I have seen this sentence pattern with "since" a few times.

--
Ruud Harmsen, https://rudhar.com

Wed, 27 Mar 2024 03:53:41 +0000: musatokyo@juno.ocn.ne.jp (tonbei)
scribeva:

>Don't you think it would be clearer if you say: It may have been years since she became unable to able to frown.
>
>1) It may have been years since she was able to frown.
>2) It may have been years since she became unable to frown.
>
>1) and 2) are of the same meaning ?

2) is not idiomatic English, I say as a non-native speaker of English,
but a native speaker of the closely related language Dutch. You just
don´t say it like that, and there's no other way than to just accept
that fact.
--
Ruud Harmsen, https://rudhar.com

Ruud Harmsen wrote:

> Wed, 27 Mar 2024 03:53:41 +0000: musatokyo@juno.ocn.ne.jp (tonbei)
> scribeva:

>>Don't you think it would be clearer if you say: It may have been years since she became unable to able to frown.
>>
>>1) It may have been years since she was able to frown.
>>2) It may have been years since she became unable to frown.
>>
>>1) and 2) are of the same meaning ?

> 2) is not idiomatic English, I say as a non-native speaker of English,
> but a native speaker of the closely related language Dutch. You just
> don´t say it like that, and there's no other way than to just accept
> that fact.

I think this is idiomatic English, as it is used by
native speakers.

Try searching Google Books (not vanilla Google) with:
"since she became unable"

and you will find at

https://www.google.
com/search?tbm=bks&q=%22since+she+became+unable+%22

several book authors with native-sounding names,
who are using this construct,
such as Penelope Leach, the author of
"The Essential First Year" - Page 60
where one finds:

'She cannot “get back to normal” by reverting to her prepregnancy
life because that has been over for months, certainly since she
became unable to sleep on her stomach or see her feet when standing up.'

Some of these books are professional treatises, thus
I think they most probably benefited of professional editing.

I would say that 2 is idiomatic English, just more unwieldy,
as it contains an extra mental process, brought about by
"became."

Best.
--
Marius Hancu