Any one of these machines is good enough and will do the job.
1) Well, if any one of them is good enough, get the cheapest one.

2) I doubt if any of these machines are good enough to do the job, but if any one of them is good enough, I will buy it.

Are the above grammatical and meaningful?

The first pair form a dialogue.

The clause 'if any one of them is good enough' has been used in both cases, but the meaning is different.

Gratefully,
Navi

Obsessed with ambiguity
Interested in strange structures
Lost in the Twilight Zone of the English language

arthurvarr@gmail.com (navi) wrote or quoted:
>Any one of these machines is good enough and will do the job.
>1) Well, if any one of them is good enough, get the cheapest one.
>2) I doubt if any of these machines are good enough to do the job, but if any one of them is good enough, I will buy it.
>Are the above grammatical and meaningful?

Both of those options there are just fine grammatically speakin'.
The second one there kinda puts the emphasis on the doubt.
And it doesn't go braggin' about the price as bein' the main thing,
even though I reckon that's still a factor for the fella sayin' the
second one too.

Le 05/04/2024 à 06:59, navi a écrit :
>
> Any one of these machines is good enough and will do the job.
> 1) Well, if any one of them is good enough, get the cheapest one.
>
> 2) I doubt if any of these machines are good enough to do the job, but
> if any one of them is good enough, I will buy it.
>
> Are the above grammatical and meaningful?

Yes.

> The first pair form a dialogue.
>
> The clause 'if any one of them is good enough' has been used in both
> cases, but the meaning is different.
>
> Gratefully,
> Navi

--
(A signature block should be preceded by a line containing
hyphen-hyphen-space.)

> Obsessed with ambiguity
> Interested in strange structures
> Lost in the Twilight Zone of the English language

On 05/04/24 20:01, Hibou wrote:

> -- (A signature block should be preceded by a line containing
> hyphen-hyphen-space.)

I continue to be amazed at the number of people who don't seem to know
how to get this right. Even Tony had trouble with his signature in the
recent past, and he's been using Usenet since Adam was a boy. Yet every
news client that I know of makes it easy to have one's signature
automatically inserted.

The signature is just what you customarily add at the end of a posting.
It can be something as simple as "Jan" or "Gratefully, Navi", but it's
helpful if it's informative. My own AUE signature, below, is a response
to the frequently-heard request, in this newsgroup, for posters to
indicate where they're posting from, That helps us in cases where the
poster's dialect is relevant to the posting. I use a different signature
for e-mail.

Customarily, the signature block was four lines of information like
phone number, address, and so on, but that custom died after identity
theft became a problem.

The point of the "-- " separator is that news software will strip off
everything from there on when quoting you.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW

On 05/04/24 21:10, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 05/04/24 20:01, Hibou wrote:
>
>> -- (A signature block should be preceded by a line containing
>> hyphen-hyphen-space.)

Sorry about the faulty quoting. That should have been quoted as

>> --
>> (A signature block should be preceded by a line containing
>> hyphen-hyphen-space.)

The point, of course, is that the "-- " has to sit on a line of its own.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW

El Fri, 05 Apr 2024 21:10:11 +1100, Peter Moylan escribió:

> The signature is just what you customarily add at the end of a posting.
> It can be something as simple as "Jan" or "Gratefully, Navi", but it's
> helpful if it's informative. My own AUE signature, below, is a response
> to the frequently-heard request, in this newsgroup, for posters to
> indicate where they're posting from

Your sig is just a url. Well, that's all I see.

--
Paul.

https://paulc.es

Le 05/04/2024 à 11:46, Paul Carmichael a écrit :
> El Fri, 05 Apr 2024 21:10:11 +1100, Peter Moylan escribió:
>>
>> The signature is just what you customarily add at the end of a posting.
>> It can be something as simple as "Jan" or "Gratefully, Navi", but it's
>> helpful if it's informative. My own AUE signature, below, is a response
>> to the frequently-heard request, in this newsgroup, for posters to
>> indicate where they're posting from
>
> Your sig is just a url. Well, that's all I see.

I see "Peter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW" as well.

On Fri, 5 Apr 2024 21:10:11 +1100
Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

> On 05/04/24 20:01, Hibou wrote:
>
> > -- (A signature block should be preceded by a line containing
> > hyphen-hyphen-space.)
>
> I continue to be amazed at the number of people who don't seem to know
> how to get this right. Even Tony had trouble with his signature in the
> recent past, and he's been using Usenet since Adam was a boy. Yet every
> news client that I know of makes it easy to have one's signature
> automatically inserted.
>
> The signature is just what you customarily add at the end of a posting.
> It can be something as simple as "Jan" or "Gratefully, Navi", but it's
> helpful if it's informative. My own AUE signature, below, is a response
> to the frequently-heard request, in this newsgroup, for posters to
> indicate where they're posting from, That helps us in cases where the
> poster's dialect is relevant to the posting. I use a different signature
> for e-mail.
>
> Customarily, the signature block was four lines of information like
> phone number, address, and so on, but that custom died after identity
> theft became a problem.
>
> The point of the "-- " separator is that news software will strip off
> everything from there on when quoting you.
>
> --
> Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
> Newcastle, NSW

Mine doesn't!

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

On 05/04/24 21:56, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
> On Fri, 5 Apr 2024 21:10:11 +1100
> Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

>> Customarily, the signature block was four lines of information like
>> phone number, address, and so on, but that custom died after identity
>> theft became a problem.
>>
>> The point of the "-- " separator is that news software will strip off
>> everything from there on when quoting you.
>>
>> --
>> Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
>> Newcastle, NSW
>
> Mine doesn't!

Rats! The people who compile lists of things like "Murphy's Law" and
"Cole's Law" should add a new law saying "There's always an exception".

This would be worth reporting to the developers of Sylpheed.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW

Kerr-Mudd, John <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote:

> On Fri, 5 Apr 2024 21:10:11 +1100
> Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>
> > On 05/04/24 20:01, Hibou wrote:
> >
> > > -- (A signature block should be preceded by a line containing
> > > hyphen-hyphen-space.)
> >
> > I continue to be amazed at the number of people who don't seem to know
> > how to get this right. Even Tony had trouble with his signature in the
> > recent past, and he's been using Usenet since Adam was a boy. Yet every
> > news client that I know of makes it easy to have one's signature
> > automatically inserted.
> >
> > The signature is just what you customarily add at the end of a posting.
> > It can be something as simple as "Jan" or "Gratefully, Navi", but it's
> > helpful if it's informative. My own AUE signature, below, is a response
> > to the frequently-heard request, in this newsgroup, for posters to
> > indicate where they're posting from, That helps us in cases where the
> > poster's dialect is relevant to the posting. I use a different signature
> > for e-mail.
> >
> > Customarily, the signature block was four lines of information like
> > phone number, address, and so on, but that custom died after identity
> > theft became a problem.
> >
> > The point of the "-- " separator is that news software will strip off
> > everything from there on when quoting you.
> >
> > --
> > Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
> > Newcastle, NSW
>
> Mine doesn't!

Your fault. Or rather, Sylpheed's.
Or rather, your's,
for choosing to use a braindead newsclient,
(and not correcting for it)

Jan

On Fri, 5 Apr 2024 14:17:17 +0200
nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) wrote:

> Kerr-Mudd, John <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 5 Apr 2024 21:10:11 +1100
> > Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
> >
> > > On 05/04/24 20:01, Hibou wrote:
> > >
> > > > -- (A signature block should be preceded by a line containing
> > > > hyphen-hyphen-space.)
> > >
[]
> > >
> > > The point of the "-- " separator is that news software will strip off
> > > everything from there on when quoting you.

> >
> > Mine doesn't!
>
> Your fault. Or rather, Sylpheed's.
> Or rather, your's,
> for choosing to use a braindead newsclient,
> (and not correcting for it)
>
> Jan
>

Well I do normally. PS you name doesn't seem to be inside your sig.
I think I went with Sylpheed to get utf support; but I might need to look
again.

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

J. J. Lodder <nospam@de-ster.demon.nl> wrote:
[...]
> > > Customarily, the signature block was four lines of information like
> > > phone number, address, and so on, but that custom died after identity
> > > theft became a problem.
> > >
> > > The point of the "-- " separator is that news software will strip off
> > > everything from there on when quoting you.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
> > > Newcastle, NSW
> >
> > Mine doesn't!
>
> Your fault. Or rather, Sylpheed's.
> Or rather, your's,
> for choosing to use a braindead newsclient,
> (and not correcting for it)
>
> Jan

I spy apostrophe abuse!

[crosspost added: apihna]

--
^Ï^. Sn!pe, PA, FIBS - Professional Crastinator

My pet rock Gordon just is.

On 2024-04-05 10:48:10 +0000, Hibou said:

> Le 05/04/2024 à 11:46, Paul Carmichael a écrit :
>> El Fri, 05 Apr 2024 21:10:11 +1100, Peter Moylan escribió:
>>>
>>> The signature is just what you customarily add at the end of a posting.
>>> It can be something as simple as "Jan" or "Gratefully, Navi", but it's
>>> helpful if it's informative. My own AUE signature, below, is a response
>>> to the frequently-heard request, in this newsgroup, for posters to
>>> indicate where they're posting from
>>
>> Your sig is just a url. Well, that's all I see.
>
> I see "Peter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW" as well.

Me too.

--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 37 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

On 2024-04-05 12:39:32 +0000, Sn!pe said:

> J. J. Lodder <nospam@de-ster.demon.nl> wrote:
> [...]
>>>> Customarily, the signature block was four lines of information like
>>>> phone number, address, and so on, but that custom died after identity
>>>> theft became a problem.
>>>>
>>>> The point of the "-- " separator is that news software will strip off
>>>> everything from there on when quoting you.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
>>>> Newcastle, NSW
>>>
>>> Mine doesn't!
>>
>> Your fault. Or rather, Sylpheed's.
>> Or rather, your's,
>> for choosing to use a braindead newsclient,
>> (and not correcting for it)
>>
>> Jan
>
> I spy apostrophe abuse!

Yes, but in this group we don't draw attention to obvious errors.
>
> [crosspost added: apihna]

--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 37 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com> wrote:

[...]

> > I spy apostrophe abuse!
>
> Yes, but in this group we don't draw attention to obvious errors.

Fair enough. <s>

--
^Ï^. Sn!pe, PA, FIBS - Professional Crastinator

My pet rock Gordon just is.

Watch this space, where Peter Moylan advised that...
> On 05/04/24 21:10, Peter Moylan wrote:
>> On 05/04/24 20:01, Hibou wrote:
>>
>>> -- (A signature block should be preceded by a line containing
>>> hyphen-hyphen-space.)
>
> Sorry about the faulty quoting. That should have been quoted as
>
> >> --
> >> (A signature block should be preceded by a line containing
> >> hyphen-hyphen-space.)
>
> The point, of course, is that the "-- " has to sit on a line of its own.

Isn't the trailing space the part many struggle with?

/dps

--
"Inviting people to laugh with you while you are laughing at yourself
is a good thing to do, You may be a fool but you're the fool in
charge." -- Carl Reiner

Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> wrote:

> Watch this space, where Peter Moylan advised that...
> > On 05/04/24 21:10, Peter Moylan wrote:
> >> On 05/04/24 20:01, Hibou wrote:
> >>
> >>> -- (A signature block should be preceded by a line containing
> >>> hyphen-hyphen-space.)
> >
> > Sorry about the faulty quoting. That should have been quoted as
> >
> > >> --
> > >> (A signature block should be preceded by a line containing
> > >> hyphen-hyphen-space.)
> >
> > The point, of course, is that the "-- " has to sit on a line of its own.
>
> Isn't the trailing space the part many struggle with?
>
> /dps

Anybody who can't get his head around the idea that
a signature separator is 'hyphen hyphen space return'
doesn't deserve to have a sig. It ain't rocket surgery!

--
^Ï^. Sn!pe, PA, FIBS - Professional Crastinator

My pet rock Gordon just is.

Remember Friday, when Sn!pe asked plaintively:
> Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Watch this space, where Peter Moylan advised that...
>>> On 05/04/24 21:10, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>>> On 05/04/24 20:01, Hibou wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> -- (A signature block should be preceded by a line containing
>>>>> hyphen-hyphen-space.)
>>>
>>> Sorry about the faulty quoting. That should have been quoted as
>>>
>>> >> --
>>> >> (A signature block should be preceded by a line containing
>>> >> hyphen-hyphen-space.)
>>>
>>> The point, of course, is that the "-- " has to sit on a line of its own.
>>
>> Isn't the trailing space the part many struggle with?
>>
>> /dps
>
> Anybody who can't get his head around the idea that
> a signature separator is 'hyphen hyphen space return'
> doesn't deserve to have a sig. It ain't rocket surgery!

No, but it is something that can easily escape the eye.

/dps

--
"Maintaining a really good conspiracy requires far more intelligent
application, by a large number of people, than the world can readily
supply."

Sam Plusnet

Sn!pe <snipeco.2@gmail.com> wrote:

> J. J. Lodder <nospam@de-ster.demon.nl> wrote:
> [...]
> > > > Customarily, the signature block was four lines of information like
> > > > phone number, address, and so on, but that custom died after identity
> > > > theft became a problem.
> > > >
> > > > The point of the "-- " separator is that news software will strip off
> > > > everything from there on when quoting you.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
> > > > Newcastle, NSW
> > >
> > > Mine doesn't!
> >
> > Your fault. Or rather, Sylpheed's.
> > Or rather, your's,
> > for choosing to use a braindead newsclient,
> > (and not correcting for it)
> >
> > Jan
>
> I spy apostrophe abuse!
>
> [crosspost added: apihna]
[crosspost refused]

Has it occured to you that the 'abuse' could have been deliberate?

Jan

J. J. Lodder <nospam@de-ster.demon.nl> wrote:

> Sn!pe <snipeco.2@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > J. J. Lodder <nospam@de-ster.demon.nl> wrote:
> > [...]
> > > > > Customarily, the signature block was four lines of information like
> > > > > phone number, address, and so on, but that custom died after identity
> > > > > theft became a problem.
> > > > >
> > > > > The point of the "-- " separator is that news software will strip off
> > > > > everything from there on when quoting you.
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
> > > > > Newcastle, NSW
> > > >
> > > > Mine doesn't!
> > >
> > > Your fault. Or rather, Sylpheed's.
> > > Or rather, your's,
> > > for choosing to use a braindead newsclient,
> > > (and not correcting for it)
> > >
> > > Jan
> >
> > I spy apostrophe abuse!
> >
> > [crosspost added: apihna]
> [crosspost refused]
>
> Has it occured to you that the 'abuse' could have been deliberate?
>
> Jan

But, but, that would be perverse!

--
^Ï^. Sn!pe, PA, FIBS - Professional Crastinator

My pet rock Gordon just is.

On 06/04/24 07:53, Snidely wrote:
> Watch this space, where Peter Moylan advised that...
>> On 05/04/24 21:10, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>> On 05/04/24 20:01, Hibou wrote:
>>>
>>>> -- (A signature block should be preceded by a line containing
>>>> hyphen-hyphen-space.)
>>
>> Sorry about the faulty quoting. That should have been quoted as
>>
>>>> -- (A signature block should be preceded by a line containing
>>>> hyphen-hyphen-space.)
>>
>> The point, of course, is that the "-- " has to sit on a line of its
>> own.
>
> Isn't the trailing space the part many struggle with?

There was one Windows mail/news client (I forget which) that screwed up
signatures by deleting trailing spaces before posting an article. To
compensate, it had to treat "--" (no space) as a signature separator.
That confused a lot of people.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW

Peter Moylan wrote:

>> Isn't the trailing space the part many struggle with?
>
> There was one Windows mail/news client (I forget which) that screwed up
> signatures by deleting trailing spaces before posting an article. To
> compensate, it had to treat "--" (no space) as a signature separator.
> That confused a lot of people.

A well-known Windows strategy. Think of the time when we were bombarded
with strings like "Re: Aw: Re: Sv: Aw: Re:" in the subject line.

--
Bertel
Kolt, Denmark

Sat, 6 Apr 2024 09:11:29 +0200: Bertel Lund Hansen
<gadekryds@lundhansen.dk> scribeva:

>Peter Moylan wrote:
>
>>> Isn't the trailing space the part many struggle with?
>>
>> There was one Windows mail/news client (I forget which) that screwed up
>> signatures by deleting trailing spaces before posting an article. To
>> compensate, it had to treat "--" (no space) as a signature separator.
>> That confused a lot of people.
>
>A well-known Windows strategy. Think of the time when we were bombarded
>with strings like "Re: Aw: Re: Sv: Aw: Re:" in the subject line.

Yes, because translating things makes life easier for naive users. Or
so they think. In reality, "Re:" (incorrectly written RE: by MS) is
NOT a Latin, English or Interlingua word (although it can be that,
too), but an RFC prescribed CODE (which includes the colon), so it is
untranslatable, and must always remain what it is, verbatim.

--
Ruud Harmsen, https://rudhar.com

El Fri, 05 Apr 2024 15:26:37 +0200, Athel Cornish-Bowden escribió:

> On 2024-04-05 10:48:10 +0000, Hibou said:
>
>> Le 05/04/2024 à 11:46, Paul Carmichael a écrit :
>>> El Fri, 05 Apr 2024 21:10:11 +1100, Peter Moylan escribió:
>>>>
>>>> The signature is just what you customarily add at the end of a
>>>> posting.
>>>> It can be something as simple as "Jan" or "Gratefully, Navi", but
>>>> it's helpful if it's informative. My own AUE signature, below, is a
>>>> response to the frequently-heard request, in this newsgroup, for
>>>> posters to indicate where they're posting from
>>>
>>> Your sig is just a url. Well, that's all I see.
>>
>> I see "Peter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW" as well.
>
> Me too.

https://wibble.paulc.es/aue/sig.png

(it's a picture of what I see).

--
Paul.

https://paulc.es

El Sat, 06 Apr 2024 08:15:15 +0000, Paul Carmichael escribió:

>
> https://wibble.paulc.es/aue/sig.png
>
> (it's a picture of what I see).

This is weird: https://wibble.paulc.es/aue/sig2.png

It seems Pan strips the text leaving only the url.

--
Paul.

https://paulc.es