Hi all,

My wife has a commitment that limits our opportunity for extended
trips to summer. That said, we could have nearly three weeks in
early March, so I'm starting to think about a longer trip.

We're in northern Indiana and thinking to head toward southern
Utah. We may not be able to de-winterize before leaving, but I'm
hoping we could after driving the first day. The most direct
route would be through Colorado, but obviously that will be too
cold for the trailer that time of year.

If we swing down farther south we should find warmer temps, but it
wil add miles of course. Does northern Arkansas, Oklahoma, and
northern NM make sense before swinging back up into southern Utah?

Are there places we should see along that general route?

We are thinking Arches, Zion, Bryce, and maybe others in that
area. Are these likely to be crowded that time of year?

Thanks for your wisdom from experience!

--
Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> West Lafayette, IN, USA

Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> My wife has a commitment that limits our opportunity for extended
> trips to summer. That said, we could have nearly three weeks in
> early March, so I'm starting to think about a longer trip.
>
> We're in northern Indiana and thinking to head toward southern
> Utah. We may not be able to de-winterize before leaving, but I'm
> hoping we could after driving the first day. The most direct
> route would be through Colorado, but obviously that will be too
> cold for the trailer that time of year.
>
> If we swing down farther south we should find warmer temps, but it
> wil add miles of course. Does northern Arkansas, Oklahoma, and
> northern NM make sense before swinging back up into southern Utah?
>
> Are there places we should see along that general route?
>
> We are thinking Arches, Zion, Bryce, and maybe others in that
> area. Are these likely to be crowded that time of year?
>
> Thanks for your wisdom from experience!
>

I don’t have any suggestions on the route. In addition to those parks
mentioned, I suggest if you have time to check out Kodachrome Basin state
park. Relatively close to Bryce and very scenic.

--
“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not
sure about the universe.” ― Albert Einstein (?)

On 11/10/2023 9:46 AM, Ted Heise wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> My wife has a commitment that limits our opportunity for extended
> trips to summer. That said, we could have nearly three weeks in
> early March, so I'm starting to think about a longer trip.
>
> We're in northern Indiana and thinking to head toward southern
> Utah. We may not be able to de-winterize before leaving, but I'm
> hoping we could after driving the first day. The most direct
> route would be through Colorado, but obviously that will be too
> cold for the trailer that time of year.
>
> If we swing down farther south we should find warmer temps, but it
> wil add miles of course. Does northern Arkansas, Oklahoma, and
> northern NM make sense before swinging back up into southern Utah?
>
> Are there places we should see along that general route?

If you do go south, you should consider stopping in Page, AZ and go to
world famous Antelope Slot Canyon. Incredibly beautiful place.

> We are thinking Arches, Zion, Bryce, and maybe others in that
> area. Are these likely to be crowded that time of year?

All 3 of those are gonna be busy, and Arches and Zion are now on that
list you have to make reservation for entry. Canyonlands is another
great place down there that is not quite as busy, but still has all the
good activities. We've done quite a bit of hiking there, and some off
roading. If you're an off-road guy, Shafer Trail Road-Potash Road is a
must do. But you have to have a good 4 wheel drive vehicle to do this
incredible trail. Scared the hell outta me, I gotta admit. Wife just
loved it.

>
> Thanks for your wisdom from experience!

Hope you have a great trip. Report back and tell us about the great
things you did!

sticks

--
WWG1WGA
NOTE: If you use Google Groups I don't see you,
unless you're whitelisted and that's doubtful.

sticks wrote:
> On 11/10/2023 9:46 AM, Ted Heise wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> My wife has a commitment that limits our opportunity for extended
>> trips to summer.  That said, we could have nearly three weeks in
>> early March, so I'm starting to think about a longer trip.
>>
>> We're in northern Indiana and thinking to head toward southern
>> Utah.  We may not be able to de-winterize before leaving, but I'm
>> hoping we could after driving the first day.  The most direct
>> route would be through Colorado, but obviously that will be too
>> cold for the trailer that time of year.
>>
>> If we swing down farther south we should find warmer temps, but it
>> wil add miles of course.  Does northern Arkansas, Oklahoma, and
>> northern NM make sense before swinging back up into southern Utah?
>>
>> Are there places we should see along that general route?
>
> If you do go south, you should consider stopping in Page, AZ and go to
> world famous Antelope Slot Canyon.  Incredibly beautiful place.
>
>> We are thinking Arches, Zion, Bryce, and maybe others in that
>> area.  Are these likely to be crowded that time of year?
>
> All 3 of those are gonna be busy, and Arches and Zion are now on that
> list you have to make reservation for entry.  Canyonlands is another
> great place down there that is not quite as busy, but still has all
> the good activities.  We've done quite a bit of hiking there, and some
> off roading. If you're an off-road guy, Shafer Trail Road-Potash Road
> is a must do.  But you have to have a good 4 wheel drive vehicle to do
> this incredible trail.  Scared the hell outta me, I gotta admit.  Wife
> just loved it.

Hey. Stop with the fear mongering. I went down the Shafer Trail in
2004 with the Nerdafari (RWD Safari van) - and back up it. Didn't even
need the Depends.

>> Thanks for your wisdom from experience!
>
> Hope you have a great trip.  Report back and tell us about the great
> things you did!
>
> sticks
>
>

--
bill
Theory don't mean squat if it don't work.

bfh <redydog@rye.net> wrote:
> sticks wrote:
>> On 11/10/2023 9:46 AM, Ted Heise wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> My wife has a commitment that limits our opportunity for extended
>>> trips to summer.  That said, we could have nearly three weeks in
>>> early March, so I'm starting to think about a longer trip.
>>>
>>> We're in northern Indiana and thinking to head toward southern
>>> Utah.  We may not be able to de-winterize before leaving, but I'm
>>> hoping we could after driving the first day.  The most direct
>>> route would be through Colorado, but obviously that will be too
>>> cold for the trailer that time of year.
>>>
>>> If we swing down farther south we should find warmer temps, but it
>>> wil add miles of course.  Does northern Arkansas, Oklahoma, and
>>> northern NM make sense before swinging back up into southern Utah?
>>>
>>> Are there places we should see along that general route?
>>
>> If you do go south, you should consider stopping in Page, AZ and go to
>> world famous Antelope Slot Canyon.  Incredibly beautiful place.
>>
>>> We are thinking Arches, Zion, Bryce, and maybe others in that
>>> area.  Are these likely to be crowded that time of year?
>>
>> All 3 of those are gonna be busy, and Arches and Zion are now on that
>> list you have to make reservation for entry.  Canyonlands is another
>> great place down there that is not quite as busy, but still has all
>> the good activities.  We've done quite a bit of hiking there, and some
>> off roading. If you're an off-road guy, Shafer Trail Road-Potash Road
>> is a must do.  But you have to have a good 4 wheel drive vehicle to do
>> this incredible trail.  Scared the hell outta me, I gotta admit.  Wife
>> just loved it.
>
> Hey. Stop with the fear mongering. I went down the Shafer Trail in
> 2004 with the Nerdafari (RWD Safari van) - and back up it. Didn't even
> need the Depends.
>
>>> Thanks for your wisdom from experience!
>>
>> Hope you have a great trip.  Report back and tell us about the great
>> things you did!
>>
>> sticks
>>
>>
>
>

Some people like to take risks. I have seen vehicles on some seriously
rough trail roads and they didn’t look like they could make it over a
speed bump. As you did, they somehow manage to make it.

--
“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not
sure about the universe.” ― Albert Einstein (?)

On 11/11/2023 8:45 AM, George.Anthony wrote:
> bfh <redydog@rye.net> wrote:
>> sticks wrote:
>>> On 11/10/2023 9:46 AM, Ted Heise wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> My wife has a commitment that limits our opportunity for extended
>>>> trips to summer.  That said, we could have nearly three weeks in
>>>> early March, so I'm starting to think about a longer trip.
>>>>
>>>> We're in northern Indiana and thinking to head toward southern
>>>> Utah.  We may not be able to de-winterize before leaving, but I'm
>>>> hoping we could after driving the first day.  The most direct
>>>> route would be through Colorado, but obviously that will be too
>>>> cold for the trailer that time of year.
>>>>
>>>> If we swing down farther south we should find warmer temps, but it
>>>> wil add miles of course.  Does northern Arkansas, Oklahoma, and
>>>> northern NM make sense before swinging back up into southern Utah?
>>>>
>>>> Are there places we should see along that general route?
>>>
>>> If you do go south, you should consider stopping in Page, AZ and go to
>>> world famous Antelope Slot Canyon.  Incredibly beautiful place.
>>>
>>>> We are thinking Arches, Zion, Bryce, and maybe others in that
>>>> area.  Are these likely to be crowded that time of year?
>>>
>>> All 3 of those are gonna be busy, and Arches and Zion are now on that
>>> list you have to make reservation for entry.  Canyonlands is another
>>> great place down there that is not quite as busy, but still has all
>>> the good activities.  We've done quite a bit of hiking there, and some
>>> off roading. If you're an off-road guy, Shafer Trail Road-Potash Road
>>> is a must do.  But you have to have a good 4 wheel drive vehicle to do
>>> this incredible trail.  Scared the hell outta me, I gotta admit.  Wife
>>> just loved it.
>>
>> Hey. Stop with the fear mongering. I went down the Shafer Trail in
>> 2004 with the Nerdafari (RWD Safari van) - and back up it. Didn't even
>> need the Depends.
>>
>>>> Thanks for your wisdom from experience!
>>>
>>> Hope you have a great trip.  Report back and tell us about the great
>>> things you did!

> Some people like to take risks. I have seen vehicles on some seriously
> rough trail roads and they didn’t look like they could make it over a
> speed bump. As you did, they somehow manage to make it.

This trail is manageable equipment wise if your vehicle functions
properly. It is steep at times, and has some areas of loose gravel.
But going over rocks and boulders is not an issue here.
The difficulty for me on this trail is the narrowness and sheer drop
offs mostly. I don't have the stomach for heights like I did in my
20's, that's for sure. You come around one bend and see the trail going
along the cliff in some areas and it is entirely unsupported. The
cantilevered portions I just wanted to get through as quickly as I could
so my belly would quit screaming at me.
If heights don't bother you, it's a fairly easy thing to do. If they
do, you will be uncomfortable at times.

--
WWG1WGA
NOTE: If you use Google Groups I don't see you,
unless you're whitelisted and that's doubtful.

sticks wrote:
> On 11/11/2023 8:45 AM, George.Anthony wrote:
>> bfh <redydog@rye.net> wrote:
>>> sticks wrote:
>>>> On 11/10/2023 9:46 AM, Ted Heise wrote:
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> My wife has a commitment that limits our opportunity for extended
>>>>> trips to summer.  That said, we could have nearly three weeks in
>>>>> early March, so I'm starting to think about a longer trip.
>>>>>
>>>>> We're in northern Indiana and thinking to head toward southern
>>>>> Utah.  We may not be able to de-winterize before leaving, but I'm
>>>>> hoping we could after driving the first day.  The most direct
>>>>> route would be through Colorado, but obviously that will be too
>>>>> cold for the trailer that time of year.
>>>>>
>>>>> If we swing down farther south we should find warmer temps, but it
>>>>> wil add miles of course.  Does northern Arkansas, Oklahoma, and
>>>>> northern NM make sense before swinging back up into southern Utah?
>>>>>
>>>>> Are there places we should see along that general route?
>>>>
>>>> If you do go south, you should consider stopping in Page, AZ and
>>>> go to
>>>> world famous Antelope Slot Canyon.  Incredibly beautiful place.
>>>>
>>>>> We are thinking Arches, Zion, Bryce, and maybe others in that
>>>>> area.  Are these likely to be crowded that time of year?
>>>>
>>>> All 3 of those are gonna be busy, and Arches and Zion are now on that
>>>> list you have to make reservation for entry.  Canyonlands is another
>>>> great place down there that is not quite as busy, but still has all
>>>> the good activities.  We've done quite a bit of hiking there, and
>>>> some
>>>> off roading. If you're an off-road guy, Shafer Trail Road-Potash Road
>>>> is a must do.  But you have to have a good 4 wheel drive vehicle
>>>> to do
>>>> this incredible trail.  Scared the hell outta me, I gotta
>>>> admit.  Wife
>>>> just loved it.
>>>
>>> Hey. Stop with the fear mongering. I went down the Shafer Trail in
>>> 2004 with the Nerdafari (RWD Safari van) - and back up it. Didn't even
>>> need the Depends.
>>>
>>>>> Thanks for your wisdom from experience!
>>>>
>>>> Hope you have a great trip.  Report back and tell us about the great
>>>> things you did!
>
>> Some people like to take risks. I have seen vehicles on some seriously
>> rough trail roads and they  didn’t look like they could make it
>> over a
>> speed bump. As you did, they somehow manage to make it.
>
> This trail is manageable equipment wise if your vehicle functions
> properly.  It is steep at times, and has some areas of loose gravel.
> But going over rocks and boulders is not an issue here.
> The difficulty for me on this trail is the narrowness and sheer drop
> offs mostly.  I don't have the stomach for heights like I did in my
> 20's, that's for sure.  You come around one bend and see the trail
> going along the cliff in some areas and it is entirely unsupported.
> The cantilevered portions I just wanted to get through as quickly as I
> could so my belly would quit screaming at me.
> If heights don't bother you, it's a fairly easy thing to do.  If they
> do, you will be uncomfortable at times.

As the old Indian said, "Endeavor to persevere."

What?
No, he was not a Native American back then - he was still an Indian,
and he might even have died before he could become a Native American.

--
bill
Theory don't mean squat if it don't work.

On 11/11/2023 9:22 AM, bfh wrote:
> sticks wrote:
>> On 11/11/2023 8:45 AM, George.Anthony wrote:
>>> bfh <redydog@rye.net> wrote:
>>>> sticks wrote:
>>>>> On 11/10/2023 9:46 AM, Ted Heise wrote:
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My wife has a commitment that limits our opportunity for extended
>>>>>> trips to summer.  That said, we could have nearly three weeks in
>>>>>> early March, so I'm starting to think about a longer trip.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We're in northern Indiana and thinking to head toward southern
>>>>>> Utah.  We may not be able to de-winterize before leaving, but I'm
>>>>>> hoping we could after driving the first day.  The most direct
>>>>>> route would be through Colorado, but obviously that will be too
>>>>>> cold for the trailer that time of year.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If we swing down farther south we should find warmer temps, but it
>>>>>> wil add miles of course.  Does northern Arkansas, Oklahoma, and
>>>>>> northern NM make sense before swinging back up into southern Utah?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Are there places we should see along that general route?
>>>>>
>>>>> If you do go south, you should consider stopping in Page, AZ and go to
>>>>> world famous Antelope Slot Canyon.  Incredibly beautiful place.
>>>>>
>>>>>> We are thinking Arches, Zion, Bryce, and maybe others in that
>>>>>> area.  Are these likely to be crowded that time of year?
>>>>>
>>>>> All 3 of those are gonna be busy, and Arches and Zion are now on that
>>>>> list you have to make reservation for entry.  Canyonlands is another
>>>>> great place down there that is not quite as busy, but still has all
>>>>> the good activities.  We've done quite a bit of hiking there, and
>>>>> some
>>>>> off roading. If you're an off-road guy, Shafer Trail Road-Potash Road
>>>>> is a must do.  But you have to have a good 4 wheel drive vehicle
>>>>> to do
>>>>> this incredible trail.  Scared the hell outta me, I gotta admit.Â
>>>>> Wife
>>>>> just loved it.
>>>>
>>>> Hey. Stop with the fear mongering. I went down the Shafer Trail in
>>>> 2004 with the Nerdafari (RWD Safari van) - and back up it. Didn't even
>>>> need the Depends.
>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks for your wisdom from experience!
>>>>>
>>>>> Hope you have a great trip.  Report back and tell us about the great
>>>>> things you did!
>>
>>> Some people like to take risks. I have seen vehicles on some seriously
>>> rough trail roads and they  didn’t look like they could make it over a
>>> speed bump. As you did, they somehow manage to make it.
>>
>> This trail is manageable equipment wise if your vehicle functions
>> properly.  It is steep at times, and has some areas of loose gravel.
>> But going over rocks and boulders is not an issue here.
>> The difficulty for me on this trail is the narrowness and sheer drop
>> offs mostly.  I don't have the stomach for heights like I did in my
>> 20's, that's for sure.  You come around one bend and see the trail
>> going along the cliff in some areas and it is entirely unsupported.
>> The cantilevered portions I just wanted to get through as quickly as I
>> could so my belly would quit screaming at me.
>> If heights don't bother you, it's a fairly easy thing to do.  If they
>> do, you will be uncomfortable at times.
>
> As the old Indian said, "Endeavor to persevere."
>
> What?
> No, he was not a Native American back then - he was still an Indian, and
> he might even have died before he could become a Native American.
>

So you allege but at the EOTDGF you have nothing remotely resembling proof.

kmiller wrote:
> On 11/11/2023 9:22 AM, bfh wrote:
>> sticks wrote:
>>> On 11/11/2023 8:45 AM, George.Anthony wrote:
>>>> bfh <redydog@rye.net> wrote:
>>>>> sticks wrote:
>>>>>> On 11/10/2023 9:46 AM, Ted Heise wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My wife has a commitment that limits our opportunity for extended
>>>>>>> trips to summer.  That said, we could have nearly three
>>>>>>> weeks in
>>>>>>> early March, so I'm starting to think about a longer trip.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We're in northern Indiana and thinking to head toward southern
>>>>>>> Utah.  We may not be able to de-winterize before leaving,
>>>>>>> but I'm
>>>>>>> hoping we could after driving the first day.  The most direct
>>>>>>> route would be through Colorado, but obviously that will be too
>>>>>>> cold for the trailer that time of year.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If we swing down farther south we should find warmer temps, but it
>>>>>>> wil add miles of course.  Does northern Arkansas, Oklahoma, and
>>>>>>> northern NM make sense before swinging back up into southern Utah?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Are there places we should see along that general route?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you do go south, you should consider stopping in Page, AZ and
>>>>>> go to
>>>>>> world famous Antelope Slot Canyon.  Incredibly beautiful place.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We are thinking Arches, Zion, Bryce, and maybe others in that
>>>>>>> area.  Are these likely to be crowded that time of year?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All 3 of those are gonna be busy, and Arches and Zion are now on
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> list you have to make reservation for entry.  Canyonlands is
>>>>>> another
>>>>>> great place down there that is not quite as busy, but still has all
>>>>>> the good activities.  We've done quite a bit of hiking there,
>>>>>> and some
>>>>>> off roading. If you're an off-road guy, Shafer Trail Road-Potash
>>>>>> Road
>>>>>> is a must do.  But you have to have a good 4 wheel drive
>>>>>> vehicle to do
>>>>>> this incredible trail.  Scared the hell outta me, I gotta
>>>>>> admit. Wife
>>>>>> just loved it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hey. Stop with the fear mongering. I went down the Shafer Trail in
>>>>> 2004 with the Nerdafari (RWD Safari van) - and back up it. Didn't
>>>>> even
>>>>> need the Depends.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks for your wisdom from experience!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hope you have a great trip.  Report back and tell us about
>>>>>> the great
>>>>>> things you did!
>>>
>>>> Some people like to take risks. I have seen vehicles on some
>>>> seriously
>>>> rough trail roads and they  didn’t look like they could
>>>> make it over a
>>>> speed bump. As you did, they somehow manage to make it.
>>>
>>> This trail is manageable equipment wise if your vehicle functions
>>> properly.  It is steep at times, and has some areas of loose
>>> gravel. But going over rocks and boulders is not an issue here.
>>> The difficulty for me on this trail is the narrowness and sheer
>>> drop offs mostly.  I don't have the stomach for heights like I did
>>> in my 20's, that's for sure.  You come around one bend and see the
>>> trail going along the cliff in some areas and it is entirely
>>> unsupported. The cantilevered portions I just wanted to get through
>>> as quickly as I could so my belly would quit screaming at me.
>>> If heights don't bother you, it's a fairly easy thing to do.  If
>>> they do, you will be uncomfortable at times.
>>
>> As the old Indian said, "Endeavor to persevere."
>>
>> What?
>> No, he was not a Native American back then - he was still an Indian,
>> and he might even have died before he could become a Native American.
>>
>
> So you allege but at the EOTDGF you have nothing remotely resembling
> proof.

It's uniquely possible that you could be right, but in 1976 he
self-identifies as Indian.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Lone Watie : [realizes Josey has snuck up behind and pulled a gun on
him] They said a man could get rich on reward money if he could kill you.

Josey Wales : Seems like you was looking to gain some money here.

Lone Watie : Actually, I was looking to gain an edge. I thought you
might be someone who would sneak up behind me with a gun.

Josey Wales : Where'd you ever get an idea like that? Besides it ain't
supposed to be easy to sneak up behind an Indian

Lone Watie : I'm an Indian, all right; but here in the nation they
call us the "civilized tribe." They call us "civilized" because we're
easy to sneak up on. White men have been sneaking up on us for years.
-----------------------------------------------------------
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0075029/characters/nm0313381

--
bill
Theory don't mean squat if it don't work.

On 11/11/2023 8:30 PM, bfh wrote:
> kmiller wrote:
>> On 11/11/2023 9:22 AM, bfh wrote:
>>> sticks wrote:
>>>> On 11/11/2023 8:45 AM, George.Anthony wrote:
>>>>> bfh <redydog@rye.net> wrote:
>>>>>> sticks wrote:
>>>>>>> On 11/10/2023 9:46 AM, Ted Heise wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My wife has a commitment that limits our opportunity for extended
>>>>>>>> trips to summer.  That said, we could have nearly three weeks in
>>>>>>>> early March, so I'm starting to think about a longer trip.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We're in northern Indiana and thinking to head toward southern
>>>>>>>> Utah.  We may not be able to de-winterize before leaving, but
>>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>> hoping we could after driving the first day.  The most direct
>>>>>>>> route would be through Colorado, but obviously that will be too
>>>>>>>> cold for the trailer that time of year.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If we swing down farther south we should find warmer temps, but it
>>>>>>>> wil add miles of course.  Does northern Arkansas, Oklahoma, and
>>>>>>>> northern NM make sense before swinging back up into southern Utah?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Are there places we should see along that general route?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you do go south, you should consider stopping in Page, AZ and
>>>>>>> go to
>>>>>>> world famous Antelope Slot Canyon.  Incredibly beautiful place.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We are thinking Arches, Zion, Bryce, and maybe others in that
>>>>>>>> area.  Are these likely to be crowded that time of year?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> All 3 of those are gonna be busy, and Arches and Zion are now on
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> list you have to make reservation for entry.  Canyonlands is
>>>>>>> another
>>>>>>> great place down there that is not quite as busy, but still has all
>>>>>>> the good activities.  We've done quite a bit of hiking there,
>>>>>>> and some
>>>>>>> off roading. If you're an off-road guy, Shafer Trail Road-Potash
>>>>>>> Road
>>>>>>> is a must do.  But you have to have a good 4 wheel drive
>>>>>>> vehicle to do
>>>>>>> this incredible trail.  Scared the hell outta me, I gotta
>>>>>>> admit. Wife
>>>>>>> just loved it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hey. Stop with the fear mongering. I went down the Shafer Trail in
>>>>>> 2004 with the Nerdafari (RWD Safari van) - and back up it. Didn't
>>>>>> even
>>>>>> need the Depends.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks for your wisdom from experience!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hope you have a great trip.  Report back and tell us about the
>>>>>>> great
>>>>>>> things you did!
>>>>
>>>>> Some people like to take risks. I have seen vehicles on some seriously
>>>>> rough trail roads and they  didn’t look like they could
>>>>> make it over a
>>>>> speed bump. As you did, they somehow manage to make it.
>>>>
>>>> This trail is manageable equipment wise if your vehicle functions
>>>> properly.  It is steep at times, and has some areas of loose
>>>> gravel. But going over rocks and boulders is not an issue here.
>>>> The difficulty for me on this trail is the narrowness and sheer drop
>>>> offs mostly.  I don't have the stomach for heights like I did in my
>>>> 20's, that's for sure.  You come around one bend and see the trail
>>>> going along the cliff in some areas and it is entirely unsupported.
>>>> The cantilevered portions I just wanted to get through as quickly as
>>>> I could so my belly would quit screaming at me.
>>>> If heights don't bother you, it's a fairly easy thing to do.  If
>>>> they do, you will be uncomfortable at times.
>>>
>>> As the old Indian said, "Endeavor to persevere."
>>>
>>> What?
>>> No, he was not a Native American back then - he was still an Indian,
>>> and he might even have died before he could become a Native American.
>>>
>>
>> So you allege but at the EOTDGF you have nothing remotely resembling
>> proof.
>
> It's uniquely possible that you could be right, but in 1976 he
> self-identifies as Indian.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> Lone Watie : [realizes Josey has snuck up behind and pulled a gun on
> him]  They said a man could get rich on reward money if he could kill you.
>
> Josey Wales : Seems like you was looking to gain some money here.
>
> Lone Watie : Actually, I was looking to gain an edge. I thought you
> might be someone who would sneak up behind me with a gun.
>
> Josey Wales : Where'd you ever get an idea like that? Besides it ain't
> supposed to be easy to sneak up behind an Indian
>
> Lone Watie : I'm an Indian, all right; but here in the nation they call
> us the "civilized tribe." They call us "civilized" because we're easy to
> sneak up on. White men have been sneaking up on us for years.
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0075029/characters/nm0313381
>

Hearsay. Inadmissible even in pasta court.

kmiller wrote:
> On 11/11/2023 8:30 PM, bfh wrote:
>> kmiller wrote:
>>> On 11/11/2023 9:22 AM, bfh wrote:
>>>> sticks wrote:
>>>>> On 11/11/2023 8:45 AM, George.Anthony wrote:
>>>>>> bfh <redydog@rye.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> sticks wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 11/10/2023 9:46 AM, Ted Heise wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> My wife has a commitment that limits our opportunity for
>>>>>>>>> extended
>>>>>>>>> trips to summer.  That said, we could have nearly
>>>>>>>>> three weeks in
>>>>>>>>> early March, so I'm starting to think about a longer trip.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We're in northern Indiana and thinking to head toward southern
>>>>>>>>> Utah.  We may not be able to de-winterize before
>>>>>>>>> leaving, but I'm
>>>>>>>>> hoping we could after driving the first day.  The
>>>>>>>>> most direct
>>>>>>>>> route would be through Colorado, but obviously that will be too
>>>>>>>>> cold for the trailer that time of year.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If we swing down farther south we should find warmer temps,
>>>>>>>>> but it
>>>>>>>>> wil add miles of course.  Does northern Arkansas,
>>>>>>>>> Oklahoma, and
>>>>>>>>> northern NM make sense before swinging back up into southern
>>>>>>>>> Utah?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Are there places we should see along that general route?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you do go south, you should consider stopping in Page, AZ
>>>>>>>> and go to
>>>>>>>> world famous Antelope Slot Canyon.  Incredibly
>>>>>>>> beautiful place.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We are thinking Arches, Zion, Bryce, and maybe others in that
>>>>>>>>> area.  Are these likely to be crowded that time of year?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> All 3 of those are gonna be busy, and Arches and Zion are now
>>>>>>>> on that
>>>>>>>> list you have to make reservation for entry.ÂÂÂ
>>>>>>>> Canyonlands is another
>>>>>>>> great place down there that is not quite as busy, but still
>>>>>>>> has all
>>>>>>>> the good activities.  We've done quite a bit of hiking
>>>>>>>> there, and some
>>>>>>>> off roading. If you're an off-road guy, Shafer Trail
>>>>>>>> Road-Potash Road
>>>>>>>> is a must do.  But you have to have a good 4 wheel
>>>>>>>> drive vehicle to do
>>>>>>>> this incredible trail.  Scared the hell outta me, I
>>>>>>>> gotta admit. Wife
>>>>>>>> just loved it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hey. Stop with the fear mongering. I went down the Shafer Trail in
>>>>>>> 2004 with the Nerdafari (RWD Safari van) - and back up it.
>>>>>>> Didn't even
>>>>>>> need the Depends.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks for your wisdom from experience!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hope you have a great trip.  Report back and tell us
>>>>>>>> about the great
>>>>>>>> things you did!
>>>>>
>>>>>> Some people like to take risks. I have seen vehicles on some
>>>>>> seriously
>>>>>> rough trail roads and they  didn’t look like
>>>>>> they could make it over a
>>>>>> speed bump. As you did, they somehow manage to make it.
>>>>>
>>>>> This trail is manageable equipment wise if your vehicle functions
>>>>> properly.  It is steep at times, and has some areas of loose
>>>>> gravel. But going over rocks and boulders is not an issue here.
>>>>> The difficulty for me on this trail is the narrowness and sheer
>>>>> drop offs mostly.  I don't have the stomach for heights like I
>>>>> did in my 20's, that's for sure.  You come around one bend and
>>>>> see the trail going along the cliff in some areas and it is
>>>>> entirely unsupported. The cantilevered portions I just wanted to
>>>>> get through as quickly as I could so my belly would quit
>>>>> screaming at me.
>>>>> If heights don't bother you, it's a fairly easy thing to do.ÂÂ
>>>>> If they do, you will be uncomfortable at times.
>>>>
>>>> As the old Indian said, "Endeavor to persevere."
>>>>
>>>> What?
>>>> No, he was not a Native American back then - he was still an
>>>> Indian, and he might even have died before he could become a
>>>> Native American.
>>>>
>>>
>>> So you allege but at the EOTDGF you have nothing remotely
>>> resembling proof.
>>
>> It's uniquely possible that you could be right, but in 1976 he
>> self-identifies as Indian.
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>> Lone Watie : [realizes Josey has snuck up behind and pulled a gun on
>> him]  They said a man could get rich on reward money if he could
>> kill you.
>>
>> Josey Wales : Seems like you was looking to gain some money here.
>>
>> Lone Watie : Actually, I was looking to gain an edge. I thought you
>> might be someone who would sneak up behind me with a gun.
>>
>> Josey Wales : Where'd you ever get an idea like that? Besides it
>> ain't supposed to be easy to sneak up behind an Indian
>>
>> Lone Watie : I'm an Indian, all right; but here in the nation they
>> call us the "civilized tribe." They call us "civilized" because
>> we're easy to sneak up on. White men have been sneaking up on us for
>> years.
>> -----------------------------------------------------------
>> https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0075029/characters/nm0313381
>>
>
> Hearsay. Inadmissible even in pasta court.

I'll have my chef's lawyer call your chef's lawyer.

--
bill
Theory don't mean squat if it don't work.

On 11/10/23 22:08, bfh wrote:
> sticks wrote:
>> On 11/10/2023 9:46 AM, Ted Heise wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> My wife has a commitment that limits our opportunity for extended
>>> trips to summer.  That said, we could have nearly three weeks in
>>> early March, so I'm starting to think about a longer trip.
>>>
>>> We're in northern Indiana and thinking to head toward southern
>>> Utah.  We may not be able to de-winterize before leaving, but I'm
>>> hoping we could after driving the first day.  The most direct
>>> route would be through Colorado, but obviously that will be too
>>> cold for the trailer that time of year.
>>>
>>> If we swing down farther south we should find warmer temps, but it
>>> wil add miles of course.  Does northern Arkansas, Oklahoma, and
>>> northern NM make sense before swinging back up into southern Utah?
>>>
>>> Are there places we should see along that general route?
>>
>> If you do go south, you should consider stopping in Page, AZ and go to
>> world famous Antelope Slot Canyon.  Incredibly beautiful place.
>>
>>> We are thinking Arches, Zion, Bryce, and maybe others in that
>>> area.  Are these likely to be crowded that time of year?
>>
>> All 3 of those are gonna be busy, and Arches and Zion are now on that
>> list you have to make reservation for entry.  Canyonlands is another
>> great place down there that is not quite as busy, but still has all
>> the good activities.  We've done quite a bit of hiking there, and some
>> off roading. If you're an off-road guy, Shafer Trail Road-Potash Road
>> is a must do.  But you have to have a good 4 wheel drive vehicle to do
>> this incredible trail.  Scared the hell outta me, I gotta admit.  Wife
>> just loved it.
>
> Hey. Stop with the fear mongering. I went down the Shafer Trail in 2004
> with the Nerdafari (RWD Safari van) - and back up it. Didn't even need
> the Depends.
>

>

I was probably right behind him with a Dually Crew Cab pickup.

--
Frank

Frank Tabor wrote:
> On 11/10/23 22:08, bfh wrote:
>> sticks wrote:
>>> On 11/10/2023 9:46 AM, Ted Heise wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> My wife has a commitment that limits our opportunity for extended
>>>> trips to summer.  That said, we could have nearly three weeks in
>>>> early March, so I'm starting to think about a longer trip.
>>>>
>>>> We're in northern Indiana and thinking to head toward southern
>>>> Utah.  We may not be able to de-winterize before leaving, but I'm
>>>> hoping we could after driving the first day.  The most direct
>>>> route would be through Colorado, but obviously that will be too
>>>> cold for the trailer that time of year.
>>>>
>>>> If we swing down farther south we should find warmer temps, but it
>>>> wil add miles of course.  Does northern Arkansas, Oklahoma, and
>>>> northern NM make sense before swinging back up into southern Utah?
>>>>
>>>> Are there places we should see along that general route?
>>>
>>> If you do go south, you should consider stopping in Page, AZ and go
>>> to world famous Antelope Slot Canyon.  Incredibly beautiful place.
>>>
>>>> We are thinking Arches, Zion, Bryce, and maybe others in that
>>>> area.  Are these likely to be crowded that time of year?
>>>
>>> All 3 of those are gonna be busy, and Arches and Zion are now on
>>> that list you have to make reservation for entry.  Canyonlands is
>>> another great place down there that is not quite as busy, but still
>>> has all the good activities.  We've done quite a bit of hiking
>>> there, and some off roading. If you're an off-road guy, Shafer
>>> Trail Road-Potash Road is a must do.  But you have to have a good
>>> 4 wheel drive vehicle to do this incredible trail.  Scared the
>>> hell outta me, I gotta admit.  Wife just loved it.
>>
>> Hey. Stop with the fear mongering. I went down the Shafer Trail in
>> 2004 with the Nerdafari (RWD Safari van) - and back up it. Didn't
>> even need the Depends.
>>
>
> I was probably right behind him with a Dually Crew Cab pickup.

You probably were........but I couldn't take my eyes off the road to
check.

--
bill
Theory don't mean squat if it don't work.

On Fri, 24 Nov 2023 15:06:18 -0500,
Frank Tabor <ftabor@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 11/10/23 22:08, bfh wrote:
> > sticks wrote:
> >> On 11/10/2023 9:46 AM, Ted Heise wrote:
> >>> Hi all,
> >>>
> >>> My wife has a commitment that limits our opportunity for extended
> >>> trips to summer.  That said, we could have nearly three weeks in
> >>> early March, so I'm starting to think about a longer trip.
> >>>
> >>> We're in northern Indiana and thinking to head toward southern
> >>> Utah.  We may not be able to de-winterize before leaving, but I'm
> >>> hoping we could after driving the first day.  The most direct
> >>> route would be through Colorado, but obviously that will be too
> >>> cold for the trailer that time of year.
> >>>
> >>> If we swing down farther south we should find warmer temps, but it
> >>> wil add miles of course.  Does northern Arkansas, Oklahoma, and
> >>> northern NM make sense before swinging back up into southern Utah?
> >>>
> >>> Are there places we should see along that general route?
> >>
> >> If you do go south, you should consider stopping in Page, AZ and go to
> >> world famous Antelope Slot Canyon.  Incredibly beautiful place.
> >>
> >>> We are thinking Arches, Zion, Bryce, and maybe others in that
> >>> area.  Are these likely to be crowded that time of year?
> >>
> >> All 3 of those are gonna be busy, and Arches and Zion are now on that
> >> list you have to make reservation for entry.  Canyonlands is another
> >> great place down there that is not quite as busy, but still has all
> >> the good activities.  We've done quite a bit of hiking there, and some
> >> off roading. If you're an off-road guy, Shafer Trail Road-Potash Road
> >> is a must do.  But you have to have a good 4 wheel drive vehicle to do
> >> this incredible trail.  Scared the hell outta me, I gotta admit.  Wife
> >> just loved it.

I was keeping the immediate follow ups unread so I could update
after making more detailed plans--or even the trip. But it seems
they've expired from the server I use, so I'm following up to a
later post.

Just wanted to say thanks to all for the great input, I really
appreciate it. Will post more when it's available.

--
Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> West Lafayette, IN, USA