Travoltron <Travoltron@fakeemail.com> wrote:
>On 12/18/2023 8:43 AM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:

>>That's a choice they made. That's not a disability.

>If you don't help people migrate, you'll be posting into the ether.
>Usenet is nothing without users.

The hypothetical here is that they are unable to learn to use a
newsreader and to become a user on a genuine News server. My position is
that they chose not to learn.

If someone chooses to learn and asks a question, if I know the answer
or know how they can get the answer, that's someone who can be helped.

It's impossible to help someone who refuses to learn anything at all.

I'm not stopping you from trying. Go do that. Leona is still posting
through Google Groups. Go help her.

On Monday, December 18, 2023 at 1:46:06 PM UTC-6, radioacti...@gmail.com wrote:
> Oh, and also how an obscure late character actress I admired was also a acrobatic pilot who flew a German biplane, against all my expectations that she was just a minor screen star.)
>

Hey, Bryan. Could you please tell me who that is? It's a new story to me!

MJ

On Monday, December 18, 2023 at 12:51:15 PM UTC-6, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
> If someone chooses to learn and asks a question, if I know the answer
> or know how they can get the answer, that's someone who can be helped.
>
Hi, Adam. I guess I'm one of those who don't understand but want to. I have no idea of how to find or use a server that handles this topic. Any suggestions are very welcome. Thanks!
-MJ

Great to hear from you, MJ!

The obscure actress's name was Lois Hamilton--actually, she was known by various stage names, but that's how she's listed in Wiki. In addition to here aviatrix experiences, I was also saddened to learn she was a suicide at 56, and in Rio, of all places.

Meanwhile, please keep my email address in your files, as I would be delighted to keep in touch with you after February 15th: RadioactiveSeattle@Gmail.com

------

Oh, and "ping" [presuming I'm using that e-speak correctly], to Adam:

I too am one who "don't understand but want to", and have tried to follow your protocols about finding/installing/etc. another so-called "browser".

BUT: my tech-expert guy in Seattle informs me that what you've prescribed is beyond even HIS expertise. He also tells me that I'm dreaming if I think I'll be able to do all this on my own, as he tried to research what you're recommending, and found (1) it was not in the least simply doable [dozens of steps, many involving Greek-to-me protocols], and (2) would require subscribing to a fee-based website even if I COULD pull it off. In ANY event, Adam, I DO appreciate your taking the trouble to try to trouble-shoot this sad state of affairs for all of us. (And no, I'm not in the LEAST anti-learning, just someone who apparently requires a live-in tech-support fellow.)

SO: the good news from y'all's respective perspectives is that none of those whom I (inadvertently!) so annoy and anger with my wordy/idiosyncratic-writing-style postings shan't be ever again so alienated, at least after Valentine's Day 2024.

But I, for one, shall miss each and every one of you! (Won't miss the occasional-yet-persistent mean-spiritedness flung my way, though.)

For my own insignificant part, I'd like to see everyone herein migrate to some other comments-accepting e-locale--my tech guy even suggested www.DeathList.net, but they're (1) U.K.-based and don't seem very interested in American notables, dead or alive, and (2) seem devoted to the idea of predicting famed folks' deaths--which little ol' always-upbeat me finds morally repugnant on MORE than one level. (But just ONE moral level would be more than enough.)

ERGO: y'all got any other suggestions as to possible alt-obit-posters migration-enmasse locales?

BRYAN STYBLE/Florida

Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>
>>>. . .
>
>>How relevant are Giganews/Supernews these days?
>
> Supernews was a very well regarded commercial News provider. They
> haven't existing in a very long time.

I gather that Giganews bought them but the domain is active.
> Giganews, sigh, pretty much takes money allows its users to post in all
> sorts of troublesome ways that don't comply with standards. They do not
> prevent users from preloading all sorts of headers.
>
> If the user chooses to post a standards-compliant article, Giganews will
> accept it and they have plenty of peers.
>
> It's up to the user to choose not to cause trouble because Giganews will
> not enforce standards compliance nor prevent bad behavior.
>
> There are plenty of ways to abuse Usenet without spamming.

(Some "standards" infuriate me,such as being prevented from
quoting and commenting on someone's signature).

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

On Mon, 18 Dec 2023 07:09:43 -0000 (UTC), Louis Epstein
<le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:

>> There are several newsservers out there and it's a lot cheaper
>> per Gb than back in the day. $2.95 a month for Agent News for 20 Gb;
>> more than you'll ever need for text.
>>
>> And then there's Eternal-September as has already been mentioned.
>>
>> John M.
>
>How relevant are Giganews/Supernews these days?

I really have/had no idea. I couldn't think of others but refreshed
my meomory with a search and came up with a hit with reviews on Tom's
Guide (I know, you're rolling your eyes).

https://www.tomsguide.com/best-picks/the-best-usenet-providers

Johhn M.

On Monday, December 18, 2023 at 5:36:03 PM UTC-6, radioacti...@gmail.com wrote:
> The obscure actress's name was Lois Hamilton

Thanks! She's a lot more recent than I had expected. I look forward to digging into her story.

-MJ

radioacti...@gmail.com <radioactiveseattle@gmail.com> wrote:

>Oh, and "ping" [presuming I'm using that e-speak correctly], to Adam:

>I too am one who "don't understand but want to", and have tried to
>follow your protocols about finding/installing/etc. another so-called
>"browser".

>BUT: my tech-expert guy in Seattle informs me that what you've
>prescribed is beyond even HIS expertise. He also tells me that I'm
>dreaming if I think I'll be able to do all this on my own, as he tried
>to research what you're recommending, and found (1) it was not in the
>least simply doable [dozens of steps, many involving Greek-to-me
>protocols], and (2) would require subscribing to a fee-based website
>even if I COULD pull it off. In ANY event, Adam, I DO appreciate your
>taking the trouble to try to trouble-shoot this sad state of affairs for
>all of us. (And no, I'm not in the LEAST anti-learning, just someone
>who apparently requires a live-in tech-support fellow.)

Let's start with you telling us what operating system you use. Then we
can recommend newsreaders. Just because I like the linux shell account
doesn't mean you need to use one.

>. . .

Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>. . .

>(Some "standards" infuriate me,such as being prevented from
>quoting and commenting on someone's signature).

Who said you can't comment on whatever you care to?

On Mon, 18 Dec 2023 15:36:00 -0800 (PST), "radioacti...@gmail.com"
<radioactiveseattle@gmail.com> wrote:

>I too am one who "don't understand but want to", and have tried to follow your protocols about finding/installing/etc. another so-called "browser".

News reader or news client. Not browser.

>BUT: my tech-expert guy in Seattle informs me that what you've prescribed is beyond even HIS expertise.

He's too young. Find an older tech guy.

> He also tells me that I'm dreaming if I think I'll be able to do all this on my own, as he tried to research what you're recommending, and found (1) it was not in the least simply doable [dozens of steps, many involving Greek-to-me protocols],

He's too young. Find an older tech guy. You will need help, that much is
true. Get someone to set it up for you. Once it's set up, you will be able
to manage it just fine.

>and (2) would require subscribing to a fee-based website even if I COULD pull it off.

It's not a web site; it's a news server. Many of us don't pay. Your tech
guy doesn't know what he's talking about, probably because he's too young.

David Carson

--
Dead or Alive Data Base
http://www.doadb.com

radioacti...@gmail.com <radioactiveseattle@gmail.com> wrote:
> Great to hear from you, MJ!
>
> The obscure actress's name was Lois Hamilton--actually, she was known by various stage names, but that's how she's listed in Wiki. In addition to here aviatrix experiences, I was also saddened to learn she was a suicide at 56, and in Rio, of all places.
>
> Meanwhile, please keep my email address in your files, as I would be delighted to keep in touch with you after February 15th: RadioactiveSeattle@Gmail.com
>
> ------
>
> Oh, and "ping" [presuming I'm using that e-speak correctly], to Adam:
>
> I too am one who "don't understand but want to", and have tried to follow your protocols about finding/installing/etc. another so-called "browser".
>
> BUT: my tech-expert guy in Seattle informs me that what you've prescribed
> is beyond even HIS expertise.

So what is his area of expertise if it doesn't include
being able to run NNTP clients?

> He also tells me that I'm dreaming if I think I'll be able to do all this
> on my own, as he tried to research what you're recommending, and found (1)
> it was not in the least simply doable [dozens of steps, many involving
> Greek-to-me protocols], and (2) would require subscribing to a fee-based
> website even if I COULD pull it off. In ANY event, Adam, I DO appreciate
> your taking the trouble to try to trouble-shoot this sad state of affairs
> for all of us. (And no, I'm not in the LEAST anti-learning, just someone who
> apparently requires a live-in tech-support fellow.)

The invocation of a newsreader client to fetch posts from a news server
is something I've been doing for over 28 years and it baffles me that
anyone could be incapable of doing it (just as,though I rarely swim,
I can not remember a time when I could not,and can not comprehend how
one can be unable to do it,if in control of one's limbs).

> SO: the good news from y'all's respective perspectives is that none of those whom I (inadvertently!) so annoy and anger with my wordy/idiosyncratic-writing-style postings shan't be ever again so alienated, at least after Valentine's Day 2024.
>
> But I, for one, shall miss each and every one of you! (Won't miss the occasional-yet-persistent mean-spiritedness flung my way, though.)
>
> For my own insignificant part, I'd like to see everyone herein migrate to some other comments-accepting e-locale--my tech guy even suggested www.DeathList.net, but they're (1) U.K.-based and don't seem very interested in American notables, dead or alive, and (2) seem devoted to the idea of predicting famed folks' deaths--which little ol' always-upbeat me finds morally repugnant on MORE than one level. (But just ONE moral level would be more than enough.)
>
> ERGO: y'all got any other suggestions as to possible alt-obit-posters migration-enmasse locales?
>
> BRYAN STYBLE/Florida

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>
>>>. . .
>
>>(Some "standards" infuriate me,such as being prevented from
>>quoting and commenting on someone's signature).
>
> Who said you can't comment on whatever you care to?

What I'm alluding to is the system whereby someone
precedes a signature with a line starting "-- "
and the newsreader thereby refuses to copy that or
anything after it when one is attempting to quote
the entire previous message and pare it down to what
one is responding to (which should treat the signature
as just as much fair game as previous text,IMO).

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:

>>>>. . .

>>>(Some "standards" infuriate me,such as being prevented from
>>>quoting and commenting on someone's signature).

>>Who said you can't comment on whatever you care to?

>What I'm alluding to is the system whereby someone
>precedes a signature with a line starting "-- "
>and the newsreader thereby refuses to copy that or
>anything after it when one is attempting to quote
>the entire previous message and pare it down to what
>one is responding to (which should treat the signature
>as just as much fair game as previous text,IMO).

trn is from the same era as tin. I have to delete the quoted .sigfile
in followup manually.

Copy-n-paste into your followup; manually add quote characters.

In article <ultupk$e4tn$2@dont-email.me>,
Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
....
>>What I'm alluding to is the system whereby someone
>>precedes a signature with a line starting "-- "
>>and the newsreader thereby refuses to copy that or
>>anything after it when one is attempting to quote
>>the entire previous message and pare it down to what
>>one is responding to (which should treat the signature
>>as just as much fair game as previous text,IMO).
>
>trn is from the same era as tin. I have to delete the quoted .sigfile
>in followup manually.
>
>Copy-n-paste into your followup; manually add quote characters.

I know nothing about tin (or any other newsreader other than trn), but I
would hazard a guess that this (not quoting sigs) is a feature that can be
turned off. Of course, you will have to figure out how...

Anyway, as noted above, trn doesn't do anything like what Louis is
suggesting.

--
Just like Donald Trump today, Jesus Christ had a Messiah complex.

And, in fact, the similarities between the two figures are quite striking.
For example, both have a ragtag band of followers, whose faith cannot be shaken.

Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>>Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>
>>>>>. . .
>
>>>>(Some "standards" infuriate me,such as being prevented from
>>>>quoting and commenting on someone's signature).
>
>>>Who said you can't comment on whatever you care to?
>
>>What I'm alluding to is the system whereby someone
>>precedes a signature with a line starting "-- "
>>and the newsreader thereby refuses to copy that or
>>anything after it when one is attempting to quote
>>the entire previous message and pare it down to what
>>one is responding to (which should treat the signature
>>as just as much fair game as previous text,IMO).
>
> trn is from the same era as tin. I have to delete the quoted .sigfile
> in followup manually.
>
> Copy-n-paste into your followup; manually add quote characters.

I don't use a mousey interface for my newsgroup reading.
I edit with pico.

I can Ctrl-K/U delete/undelete but I can't undelete what
tin has already deleted for me.

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>>Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>>>Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:

>>>>>>. . .

>>>>>(Some "standards" infuriate me,such as being prevented from
>>>>>quoting and commenting on someone's signature).

>>>>Who said you can't comment on whatever you care to?

>>>What I'm alluding to is the system whereby someone
>>>precedes a signature with a line starting "-- "
>>>and the newsreader thereby refuses to copy that or
>>>anything after it when one is attempting to quote
>>>the entire previous message and pare it down to what
>>>one is responding to (which should treat the signature
>>>as just as much fair game as previous text,IMO).

>>trn is from the same era as tin. I have to delete the quoted .sigfile
>>in followup manually.

>>Copy-n-paste into your followup; manually add quote characters.

>I don't use a mousey interface for my newsgroup reading.
>I edit with pico.

Shudder

Long lines just run off the end of the screen!

I use vim. I had been a long-time vi user.

>I can Ctrl-K/U delete/undelete but I can't undelete what
>tin has already deleted for me.

Ask in news.software.readers. If the default can be changed, someone
will know.

Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>>Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>>>Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>>>>Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>
>>>>>>>. . .
>
>>>>>>(Some "standards" infuriate me,such as being prevented from
>>>>>>quoting and commenting on someone's signature).
>
>>>>>Who said you can't comment on whatever you care to?
>
>>>>What I'm alluding to is the system whereby someone
>>>>precedes a signature with a line starting "-- "
>>>>and the newsreader thereby refuses to copy that or
>>>>anything after it when one is attempting to quote
>>>>the entire previous message and pare it down to what
>>>>one is responding to (which should treat the signature
>>>>as just as much fair game as previous text,IMO).
>
>>>trn is from the same era as tin. I have to delete the quoted .sigfile
>>>in followup manually.
>
>>>Copy-n-paste into your followup; manually add quote characters.
>
>>I don't use a mousey interface for my newsgroup reading.
>>I edit with pico.
>
> Shudder
>
> Long lines just run off the end of the screen!

Easily managed,a space/backspace chops the long lines,
repeat as needed.

> I use vim. I had been a long-time vi user.

I hate vi.
People say ed is worse but I haven't tried it.
Nor vim.

For FreeBSD,/usr/ports/editors includes

2bsd-vi
abiword
abiword-docs
aee
aewan
amp
apel
asedit
beav
bee-host
biew
bined
bingrok
bitedit
bless
boiling-egg
bpatch
bvi
calligra
calligraplan
chexedit
cooledit
cpeditor
cream
cudatext
deforaos-editor
dhex
diakonos
diamond
dkns
drjava
dte
e3
e93
ecce
ecrire
edith
editorconfig-core-c
elementary-code
emacs
emacs-devel
encryptpad
featherpad
fileobj
flim
focuswriter
fte
fxite
gedit
gedit-plugins
ghex
ghostwriter
gmanedit
gnome-latex
gnome-text-editor
gobby
gomate
gummi
helix
heme
hexcurse
hexedit
hexer
hexpert
hnb
hte
imhex
impress
jed
jedit
joe
jove
jucipp
jupp
kak-lsp
kakoune
kate
kate-devel
kibi
kile
komodo-edit
languageclient-neovim
lapce
lazarus
lazarus-devel
lazarus-qt5
lazarus-qt5-devel
lazarus-qt6-devel
le
leafpad
led
libreoffice
libreoffice-af
libreoffice-am
libreoffice-as
libreoffice-ast
libreoffice-be
libreoffice-bg
libreoffice-bn
libreoffice-bn_IN
libreoffice-bo
libreoffice-br
libreoffice-brx
libreoffice-bs
libreoffice-ca
libreoffice-ca_valencia
libreoffice-ckb
libreoffice-cs
libreoffice-cy
libreoffice-da
libreoffice-dgo
libreoffice-dsb
libreoffice-dz
libreoffice-el
libreoffice-en_GB
libreoffice-en_ZA
libreoffice-eo
libreoffice-es
libreoffice-et
libreoffice-eu
libreoffice-fa
libreoffice-fi
libreoffice-fur
libreoffice-fy
libreoffice-ga
libreoffice-gd
libreoffice-gl
libreoffice-gu
libreoffice-gug
libreoffice-hi
libreoffice-hr
libreoffice-hsb
libreoffice-i18n
libreoffice-id
libreoffice-is
libreoffice-it
libreoffice-ka
libreoffice-kab
libreoffice-kk
libreoffice-km
libreoffice-kmr_Latn
libreoffice-kn
libreoffice-kok
libreoffice-ks
libreoffice-lb
libreoffice-lo
libreoffice-lt
libreoffice-lv
libreoffice-mai
libreoffice-mk
libreoffice-ml
libreoffice-mn
libreoffice-mni
libreoffice-mr
libreoffice-my
libreoffice-nb
libreoffice-ne
libreoffice-nl
libreoffice-nn
libreoffice-nr
libreoffice-nso
libreoffice-oc
libreoffice-om
libreoffice-or
libreoffice-pa_IN
libreoffice-ro
libreoffice-rw
libreoffice-sa_IN
libreoffice-sat
libreoffice-sd
libreoffice-si
libreoffice-sid
libreoffice-sk
libreoffice-sl
libreoffice-sq
libreoffice-sr
libreoffice-sr_Latn
libreoffice-ss
libreoffice-st
libreoffice-sv
libreoffice-sw_TZ
libreoffice-szl
libreoffice-ta
libreoffice-te
libreoffice-tg
libreoffice-th
libreoffice-tn
libreoffice-tr
libreoffice-ts
libreoffice-tt
libreoffice-ug
libreoffice-uz
libreoffice-ve
libreoffice-vec
libreoffice-xh
libreoffice-zu
linux-bcompare
linux-r7-office
linux-sublime
linux-sublime-text4
linux-sublime3
linux-wps-office
lite
lite-xl
marker
mg
mickey
micro
mined
mle
morla
mousepad
mp
nano
ne
nedit
neovim
neovim-gtk
neovim-qt
notepadnext
novelwriter
nvi-m17n
nvi2
omegaT
openoffice-4
openoffice-devel
orbiton
ox
p5-Proc-InvokeEditor
p5-Vimana
paredit-mode.el
parinfer-rust
pdfedit
pico-alpine
picpas
pluma
pluma-plugins
poedit
poke
psgml
puff
py-babi
py-editorconfig
py-pynvim
py-vim-bridge
quilter
rehex
retext
rubygem-neovim
sam
scite
se
semi
setzer
shed
slime
sly
sly-asdf
sly-named-readtables
sly-quicklisp
ssed
sted
tamago
tea
teco
ted
tetradraw
texmacs
texmaker
texstudio
textadept
texworks
the
treeform
turbo
tweak
uemacs
uhex
uzap
ved
vigor
vile
vim
vim-colorschemes-legacy
vis
vscode
web-mode
with-editor
with-editor-devel
wordgrinder
wxhexeditor
xcoral
xed
xi-core
xi-term
xmlcopyeditor
xvile
yudit
zile

but tin as reader and pico as editor are what I'm most comfortable with.
I know trn has some abilities tin doesn't.

>>I can Ctrl-K/U delete/undelete but I can't undelete what
>>tin has already deleted for me.
>
> Ask in news.software.readers. If the default can be changed, someone
> will know.

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>>Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>>>Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>>>>Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:

>>>>>>>>. . .

>>>>>>>(Some "standards" infuriate me,such as being prevented from
>>>>>>>quoting and commenting on someone's signature).

>>>>>>Who said you can't comment on whatever you care to?

>>>>>What I'm alluding to is the system whereby someone
>>>>>precedes a signature with a line starting "-- "
>>>>>and the newsreader thereby refuses to copy that or
>>>>>anything after it when one is attempting to quote
>>>>>the entire previous message and pare it down to what
>>>>>one is responding to (which should treat the signature
>>>>>as just as much fair game as previous text,IMO).

>>>>trn is from the same era as tin. I have to delete the quoted .sigfile
>>>>in followup manually.

>>>>Copy-n-paste into your followup; manually add quote characters.

>>>I don't use a mousey interface for my newsgroup reading.
>>>I edit with pico.

>>Shudder

>>Long lines just run off the end of the screen!

>Easily managed,a space/backspace chops the long lines,
>repeat as needed.

>>I use vim. I had been a long-time vi user.

>I hate vi.
>People say ed is worse but I haven't tried it.
>Nor vim.

ed was very basic.

>For FreeBSD,/usr/ports/editors includes

I know. The choices are amazing, aren't they. It's hard to convince
people who don't understand that a newsreader or email client that calls
on outside processes for certain functions, like the editor to use in
the composer, are superior. They offer the user a choice. I'd hate to be
stuck with a built-in editor in a GUI client which won't have the
features I'm used to.

>. . .

>but tin as reader and pico as editor are what I'm most comfortable with.
>I know trn has some abilities tin doesn't.

trn threads. tin doesn't.

>>>. . .

Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
> Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>>Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>>>Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>>>>Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>>>>>>Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> wrote:
>
>>>>>>>>>. . .
>
>>>>>>>>(Some "standards" infuriate me,such as being prevented from
>>>>>>>>quoting and commenting on someone's signature).
>
>>>>>>>Who said you can't comment on whatever you care to?
>
>>>>>>What I'm alluding to is the system whereby someone
>>>>>>precedes a signature with a line starting "-- "
>>>>>>and the newsreader thereby refuses to copy that or
>>>>>>anything after it when one is attempting to quote
>>>>>>the entire previous message and pare it down to what
>>>>>>one is responding to (which should treat the signature
>>>>>>as just as much fair game as previous text,IMO).
>
>>>>>trn is from the same era as tin. I have to delete the quoted .sigfile
>>>>>in followup manually.
>
>>>>>Copy-n-paste into your followup; manually add quote characters.
>
>>>>I don't use a mousey interface for my newsgroup reading.
>>>>I edit with pico.
>
>>>Shudder
>
>>>Long lines just run off the end of the screen!
>
>>Easily managed,a space/backspace chops the long lines,
>>repeat as needed.
>
>>>I use vim. I had been a long-time vi user.
>
>>I hate vi.
>>People say ed is worse but I haven't tried it.
>>Nor vim.
>
> ed was very basic.
>
>>For FreeBSD,/usr/ports/editors includes
>
> I know. The choices are amazing, aren't they. It's hard to convince
> people who don't understand that a newsreader or email client that calls
> on outside processes for certain functions, like the editor to use in
> the composer, are superior. They offer the user a choice. I'd hate to be
> stuck with a built-in editor in a GUI client which won't have the
> features I'm used to.

I get pico along with pine/alpine and I'm used to using
it with tin as well as for general composition of text
files.
GUI clients are not my style.

>>. . .
>
>>but tin as reader and pico as editor are what I'm most comfortable with.
>>I know trn has some abilities tin doesn't.
>
> trn threads. tin doesn't.

Tin presents a menu of threads,and can show you tree diagrams
of them...but I noted in the past when trn was able to show
me messages cleanly while tin was making mush of my .newsrc file.

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.