On dlvl:56 in Gehennom I found many demons (minor and major),
some dragons that seem to serve as guards, rooms, corridors
and drawbrige-secured footbridges, fountains, traps, and a
throne. I sequentially cleared the level and reached the
front-room of the throne-room where two dragons woke up and
attacked me. The bad thing was that the doors to the throne
room opened (or shattered), these major demons immediately
were adjacent to me, and quite instantly my HP:300+ AC:-35
samurai got reduced to HP:~50. One of the demons was Dagul
(a balrog?), and Yeenoghu was also there. In the source code
I also saw that the dragon Tiamat was probably there. Are all
these demons and dragons so powerful or was it some other
effects or attack combos that nearly killed me instantly?

Janis

On 06.06.2023 04:19, Janis Papanagnou wrote:
> On dlvl:56 in Gehennom I found many demons (minor and major),
> some dragons that seem to serve as guards, rooms, corridors
> and drawbrige-secured footbridges, fountains, traps, and a
> throne. I sequentially cleared the level and reached the
> front-room of the throne-room where two dragons woke up and
> attacked me. The bad thing was that the doors to the throne
> room opened (or shattered), these major demons immediately
> were adjacent to me, and quite instantly my HP:300+ AC:-35
> samurai got reduced to HP:~50. One of the demons was Dagul
> (a balrog?), and Yeenoghu was also there. In the source code
> I also saw that the dragon Tiamat was probably there. Are all
> these demons and dragons so powerful or was it some other
> effects or attack combos that nearly killed me instantly?

With my immediate portal-escape obviously only Dagul followed
me. Returning to that demon level I was welcomed by Yeenoghu;
tough guy and a hard job to get rid of him. And Tiamat was
also still on that level. Now it appears to have been a bad
decision to try to kill him with a zap from a wand of death.
His stats are awesome as my stethoscope told me. So I again
had to initiate an emergency portal-escape to a safe place.

If these three foes had been around in the situation that I
described above then my instant HP-drop is well explanable.
Now I need some good idea for the next meeting with Tiamat;
maybe I can hit him with paralysis...?

Janis

> Now I need some good idea for the next meeting with Tiamat;
> maybe I can hit him with paralysis...?

I've usually managed to kill Tiamat with straight melee. As a demon-dragon she is vulnerable to silver.
But I also keep a full healing at the ready...
She has all the resistances you can imagine, so wands or spells don't work.
Paralysis can work. Plenty of players use paralysis, it's a valid strategy. I just never use it myself, too afraid I will miss or the effect will only be very short.
Good luck and hopefully she will drop the scales!

On Tuesday, 6 June 2023 at 13:19:00 UTC+2, Mobi Leuser wrote:
> > Now I need some good idea for the next meeting with Tiamat;
> > maybe I can hit him with paralysis...?
> I've usually managed to kill Tiamat with straight melee. As a demon-dragon she is vulnerable to silver.
> But I also keep a full healing at the ready...
> She has all the resistances you can imagine, so wands or spells don't work.
> Paralysis can work. Plenty of players use paralysis, it's a valid strategy. I just never use it myself, too afraid I will miss or the effect will only be very short.
> Good luck and hopefully she will drop the scales!

Oh, I forgot the mention the cheese option: just quaff potion of invulnerability first :-)

On 06.06.2023 13:22, Mobi Leuser wrote:
> On Tuesday, 6 June 2023 at 13:19:00 UTC+2, Mobi Leuser wrote:
>>> Now I need some good idea for the next meeting with Tiamat; maybe
>>> I can hit him with paralysis...?
>> I've usually managed to kill Tiamat with straight melee. As a
>> demon-dragon she is vulnerable to silver. But I also keep a full
>> healing at the ready... She has all the resistances you can
>> imagine, so wands or spells don't work. Paralysis can work. Plenty
>> of players use paralysis, it's a valid strategy. I just never use
>> it myself, too afraid I will miss or the effect will only be very
>> short.

Yeah, I observed [in some variants] that hitting with a potion of
paralysis misses or needs a lot of tries; that's what I fear. The
paralysis duration is not so much a concern to me; if I'll have to
melee that beast anyway it saves me some precious turns (and also
potions[*]).

>> Good luck and hopefully she will drop the scales!

I read on the EviHack page (assuming a Hack'EM 1-to-1 inheritance):

"When worn, the scales confer magic resistance only, and
give off light. They must be crafted into dragon-scaled
armor to receive all of the extrinsics available
(poison/fire/cold/shock/sleep/acid/disintegration/stoning
resistance and reflection) in addition to magic resistance
and light."

I have some deep-scaled fireproof +2 plasteel armor that provides
level drain resistance (which turned out to be very useful). Do I
understand the mechanics correctly that (a) it is a precondition
that I have such (e.g.) deep-scaled armor [**] to make use of the
chromatic scales, and (b) that the previous level drain resistance
will then be lost? - In the latter case I'd have to look wherefrom
I then get my level drain resistance. Most of the chromatic scales'
resistances I can get from crowning anyway, but some are quite nice
to have. But okay, I haven't yet got the scales in the first place.

>
> Oh, I forgot the mention the cheese option: just quaff potion of
> invulnerability first :-)

Okay, I actually have a [single] potion of invulnerability. Thanks.

BTW (non-native speaker here), what does "cheese option" mean; an
easy walk or some such?

Janis

[*] Not sure I have [at all or enough] potions: they either seem
to have been very rare, or monsters may have taken them out from
by bag while I deposited the bag for a while?

[**] Or is (with "into") just meant to create such dragon armor,
not to meld them into an existing dragon armor.

> I have some deep-scaled fireproof +2 plasteel armor that provides
> level drain resistance (which turned out to be very useful). Do I
> understand the mechanics correctly that (a) it is a precondition
> that I have such (e.g.) deep-scaled armor [**] to make use of the
> chromatic scales, and (b) that the previous level drain resistance
> will then be lost? - In the latter case I'd have to look wherefrom
> I then get my level drain resistance. Most of the chromatic scales'
> resistances I can get from crowning anyway, but some are quite nice
> to have. But okay, I haven't yet got the scales in the first place.

Unfortunately, chromatic scaled armor doesn't give drain resistance. It would replace
the deep-scaling that you have now. If you can afford it, drain resistance is also
an object property. I am wearing a "dragonhide T-shirt of drain resistance" myself.

> > Oh, I forgot the mention the cheese option: just quaff potion of
> > invulnerability first :-)
> Okay, I actually have a [single] potion of invulnerability. Thanks.
>
> BTW (non-native speaker here), what does "cheese option" mean; an
> easy walk or some such?

"cheese" is gaming slang for a mechanic that lets you easily kill a highly dangerous monster.
Not a native speaker myself, but I learn a lot on IRC ;-)

On 06.06.2023 14:55, Mobi Leuser wrote:
>
> Unfortunately, chromatic scaled armor doesn't give drain resistance.
> It would replace the deep-scaling that you have now.

> If you can afford it, drain resistance is also an object property.
> I am wearing a "dragonhide T-shirt of drain resistance" myself.

Did you find that shirt or can that be manufactured somehow?
I read (on the EvilHack page) that properties be wished for,
but that they cannot be wished for magical armor?

"Too bad" I already have a blessed fireproof +4 T-shirt, and
my other armor pieces are all magical.

Can I wish for "dragonhide T-shirt of drain resistance" and
get the item with that material and property? - That would
make the T-shirt replacement worthwhile given the high AC of
dragonhide armor.

Janis

On Tuesday, 6 June 2023 at 16:03:52 UTC+2, Janis Papanagnou wrote:
> On 06.06.2023 14:55, Mobi Leuser wrote:
> >
> > Unfortunately, chromatic scaled armor doesn't give drain resistance.
> > It would replace the deep-scaling that you have now.
>
> > If you can afford it, drain resistance is also an object property.
> > I am wearing a "dragonhide T-shirt of drain resistance" myself.
> Did you find that shirt or can that be manufactured somehow?
> I read (on the EvilHack page) that properties be wished for,
> but that they cannot be wished for magical armor?
>
> "Too bad" I already have a blessed fireproof +4 T-shirt, and
> my other armor pieces are all magical.
>
> Can I wish for "dragonhide T-shirt of drain resistance" and
> get the item with that material and property? - That would
> make the T-shirt replacement worthwhile given the high AC of
> dragonhide armor.
>
> Janis

Yes, my own wish looked like this:
blessed +2 dragonhide T-shirt of drain resistance

On Tuesday, June 6, 2023 at 10:55:15 AM UTC-4, Mobi Leuser wrote:
> On Tuesday, 6 June 2023 at 16:03:52 UTC+2, Janis Papanagnou wrote:
> > On 06.06.2023 14:55, Mobi Leuser wrote:
> > >
> > > Unfortunately, chromatic scaled armor doesn't give drain resistance.
> > > It would replace the deep-scaling that you have now.
> >
> > > If you can afford it, drain resistance is also an object property.
> > > I am wearing a "dragonhide T-shirt of drain resistance" myself.
> > Did you find that shirt or can that be manufactured somehow?
> > I read (on the EvilHack page) that properties be wished for,
> > but that they cannot be wished for magical armor?
> >
> > "Too bad" I already have a blessed fireproof +4 T-shirt, and
> > my other armor pieces are all magical.
> >
> > Can I wish for "dragonhide T-shirt of drain resistance" and
> > get the item with that material and property? - That would
> > make the T-shirt replacement worthwhile given the high AC of
> > dragonhide armor.
> >
> > Janis
> Yes, my own wish looked like this:
> blessed +2 dragonhide T-shirt of drain resistance

Or, if you want to type less: " blessed +2 dragonhide T-shirt of decay."

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