Hi all,

As mentioned in my trip report, there were a few anomalies about
our trailer that I hoped to get some input on.

1) The trailer has a Truma Combi Eco Plus furnace/water heater.
It threw off error messages a couple of times. First was said
to be from blocked intake our outflow (found no blockage) and
second suggested there was a fault with the combustion air
motor. On top of that, I noticed a hot/burning
wire/electronics smell at one point. After a lot of googling,
I worked off the motor cover and gave it a spin with my
fingers. After replacing the cover, the unit seemed to work
fine.

I'm a little leery about this one, not wanting to get stuck
without heat when we're out some freezing night. My plan is to
call the dealer and discuss it with them. I'm not sure it's
worth dragging the trailer to them (almost 2 hours each way),
unless they feel strongly they should look at it. At the
least, I'll get it on the record with them.

2) I'm suspicious of the battery (Interstate SRM-24). It was dead
after just 5-6 weeks in storage (fully disconnected). After
conditioning and charging, it seemed fine--but after just a day
on electric heating it was dead again. The refrigerator was on
propane so there shouldn't have been a lot else drawing from
the battery. Am I expecting too much?

My impression from online searching is that this not a great
battery option. Should I be looking for something different?

Thanks for any inputs!

--
Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> West Lafayette, IN, USA

On 3/27/2024 12:29 PM, Ted Heise wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> As mentioned in my trip report, there were a few anomalies about
> our trailer that I hoped to get some input on.
>
> 1) The trailer has a Truma Combi Eco Plus furnace/water heater.
> It threw off error messages a couple of times. First was said
> to be from blocked intake our outflow (found no blockage) and
> second suggested there was a fault with the combustion air
> motor. On top of that, I noticed a hot/burning
> wire/electronics smell at one point. After a lot of googling,
> I worked off the motor cover and gave it a spin with my
> fingers. After replacing the cover, the unit seemed to work
> fine.
>
> I'm a little leery about this one, not wanting to get stuck
> without heat when we're out some freezing night. My plan is to
> call the dealer and discuss it with them. I'm not sure it's
> worth dragging the trailer to them (almost 2 hours each way),
> unless they feel strongly they should look at it. At the
> least, I'll get it on the record with them.
>
> 2) I'm suspicious of the battery (Interstate SRM-24). It was dead
> after just 5-6 weeks in storage (fully disconnected). After
> conditioning and charging, it seemed fine--but after just a day
> on electric heating it was dead again. The refrigerator was on
> propane so there shouldn't have been a lot else drawing from
> the battery. Am I expecting too much?

I don't know if it is but this application really calls for a deep cycle
battery.

>
> My impression from online searching is that this not a great
> battery option. Should I be looking for something different?
>
> Thanks for any inputs!
>

In article <slrnv08lrq.5uf.theise@panix2.panix.com>, theise@panix.com
says...
>
> Hi all,
>
> As mentioned in my trip report, there were a few anomalies about
> our trailer that I hoped to get some input on.
>
> 1) The trailer has a Truma Combi Eco Plus furnace/water heater.
> It threw off error messages a couple of times. First was said
> to be from blocked intake our outflow (found no blockage) and
> second suggested there was a fault with the combustion air
> motor. On top of that, I noticed a hot/burning
> wire/electronics smell at one point. After a lot of googling,
> I worked off the motor cover and gave it a spin with my
> fingers. After replacing the cover, the unit seemed to work
> fine.
>
> I'm a little leery about this one, not wanting to get stuck
> without heat when we're out some freezing night. My plan is to
> call the dealer and discuss it with them. I'm not sure it's
> worth dragging the trailer to them (almost 2 hours each way),
> unless they feel strongly they should look at it. At the
> least, I'll get it on the record with them.
>
> 2) I'm suspicious of the battery (Interstate SRM-24). It was dead
> after just 5-6 weeks in storage (fully disconnected). After
> conditioning and charging, it seemed fine--but after just a day
> on electric heating it was dead again. The refrigerator was on
> propane so there shouldn't have been a lot else drawing from
> the battery. Am I expecting too much?
>
> My impression from online searching is that this not a great
> battery option. Should I be looking for something different?
>
> Thanks for any inputs!

That battery is rated at 81 amp hours. For best battery life you
shouldn't draw it down more than 50%. A typical RV furnance will use
around 7 amps per hour.

Personally I would want someone to look for that burned wire.

TB

On Wed, 27 Mar 2024 17:28:12 -0700,
Technobarbarian <technobarbarian@gmail.com> wrote:
> In article <slrnv08lrq.5uf.theise@panix2.panix.com>, theise@panix.com
> says...
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > As mentioned in my trip report, there were a few anomalies about
> > our trailer that I hoped to get some input on.
> >
> > 1) The trailer has a Truma Combi Eco Plus furnace/water
> > heater. It threw off error messages a couple of times.
> > First was said to be from blocked intake our outflow (found
> > no blockage) and second suggested there was a fault with
> > the combustion air motor. On top of that, I noticed a
> > hot/burning wire/electronics smell at one point. After a
> > lot of googling, I worked off the motor cover and gave it a
> > spin with my fingers. After replacing the cover, the unit
> > seemed to work fine.
> >
> > I'm a little leery about this one, not wanting to get stuck
> > without heat when we're out some freezing night. My plan
> > is to call the dealer and discuss it with them. I'm not
> > sure it's worth dragging the trailer to them (almost 2
> > hours each way), unless they feel strongly they should look
> > at it. At the least, I'll get it on the record with them.
> >
> > 2) I'm suspicious of the battery (Interstate SRM-24). It was
> > dead after just 5-6 weeks in storage (fully disconnected).
> > After conditioning and charging, it seemed fine--but after
> > just a day on electric heating it was dead again. The
> > refrigerator was on propane so there shouldn't have been a
> > lot else drawing from the battery. Am I expecting too
> > much?
> >
> > My impression from online searching is that this not a
> > great battery option. Should I be looking for something
> > different?
> >
> > Thanks for any inputs!
>
> That battery is rated at 81 amp hours. For best battery
> life you shouldn't draw it down more than 50%. A typical RV
> furnance will use around 7 amps per hour.
>
> Personally I would want someone to look for that burned
> wire.

Very helpful, thanks. Regarding the smell, I'm not convinced it
was a burned wire (or component). Something hot, but maybe not
burned. Given the past history with the dealer (many, many months
to get a slide out repair), I'm not sure I want to take it to
them. It's still under warranty though, so it seems they would
be the best option.

--
Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> West Lafayette, IN, USA

Ted Heise wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Mar 2024 17:28:12 -0700,
> Technobarbarian <technobarbarian@gmail.com> wrote:
>> In article <slrnv08lrq.5uf.theise@panix2.panix.com>, theise@panix.com
>> says...
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> As mentioned in my trip report, there were a few anomalies about
>>> our trailer that I hoped to get some input on.
>>>
>>> 1) The trailer has a Truma Combi Eco Plus furnace/water
>>> heater. It threw off error messages a couple of times.
>>> First was said to be from blocked intake our outflow (found
>>> no blockage) and second suggested there was a fault with
>>> the combustion air motor. On top of that, I noticed a
>>> hot/burning wire/electronics smell at one point. After a
>>> lot of googling, I worked off the motor cover and gave it a
>>> spin with my fingers. After replacing the cover, the unit
>>> seemed to work fine.
>>>
>>> I'm a little leery about this one, not wanting to get stuck
>>> without heat when we're out some freezing night. My plan
>>> is to call the dealer and discuss it with them. I'm not
>>> sure it's worth dragging the trailer to them (almost 2
>>> hours each way), unless they feel strongly they should look
>>> at it. At the least, I'll get it on the record with them.
>>>
>>> 2) I'm suspicious of the battery (Interstate SRM-24). It was
>>> dead after just 5-6 weeks in storage (fully disconnected).
>>> After conditioning and charging, it seemed fine--but after
>>> just a day on electric heating it was dead again. The
>>> refrigerator was on propane so there shouldn't have been a
>>> lot else drawing from the battery. Am I expecting too
>>> much?
>>>
>>> My impression from online searching is that this not a
>>> great battery option. Should I be looking for something
>>> different?
>>>
>>> Thanks for any inputs!
>>
>> That battery is rated at 81 amp hours. For best battery
>> life you shouldn't draw it down more than 50%. A typical RV
>> furnance will use around 7 amps per hour.
>>
>> Personally I would want someone to look for that burned
>> wire.
>
> Very helpful, thanks. Regarding the smell, I'm not convinced it
> was a burned wire (or component). Something hot, but maybe not
> burned. Given the past history with the dealer (many, many months
> to get a slide out repair), I'm not sure I want to take it to
> them. It's still under warranty though, so it seems they would
> be the best option.
>

Considering the 4 hour round trip and the other problems you've had,
my opinion is: Sometimes, paid-for convenience is better than free
aggravation. That assumes, of course, that there is a nearby place
that's competent enough to find the problem and fix it.

--
bill
Theory don't mean squat if it don't work.

On 3/28/2024 8:29 AM, Ted Heise wrote:
> Very helpful, thanks. Regarding the smell, I'm not convinced it
> was a burned wire (or component). Something hot, but maybe not
> burned. Given the past history with the dealer (many, many months
> to get a slide out repair), I'm not sure I want to take it to
> them. It's still under warranty though, so it seems they would
> be the best option.

First, thanks for the report. I enjoyed it and am heading that
direction next week.

As far as the smell is concerned, first question I would ask is it the
first time the furnace was used? If yes, I would say it is normal. If
it is the first time for the season, it also could be considered normal
as dust and other unwanted things could have gotten in there and burned
up.
If it has been used before and it is not an initial burn off of machine
oils and such, you have to pay attention to exactly what it smells like.
There are webpages that give various examples of the different smells
and their causes and the action necessary if it fits the scenario.

If you DO think it was a burned wire or electrical component, you should
certainly do a full inspection. If you are proficient in electrical
diagnostics, I'm sure you could hook up a meter to make sure things are
working within limits. The specs should be all in your documentation
manuals. If not, I'm sure the stealer could. Good luck resolving this
and getting peace of mind!

--
Stand With Israel!

On 3/28/2024 3:09 PM, sticks wrote:
> On 3/28/2024 8:29 AM, Ted Heise wrote:
>> Very helpful, thanks.  Regarding the smell, I'm not convinced it
>> was a burned wire (or component).  Something hot, but maybe not
>> burned.  Given the past history with the dealer (many, many months
>> to get a slide out repair), I'm not sure I want to take it to
>> them.  It's still under warranty though, so it seems they would
>> be the best option.
>
> First, thanks for the report.  I enjoyed it and am heading that
> direction next week.
>
> As far as the smell is concerned, first question I would ask is it the
> first time the furnace was used?  If yes, I would say it is normal.  If
> it is the first time for the season, it also could be considered normal
> as dust and other unwanted things could have gotten in there and burned up.
> If it has been used before and it is not an initial burn off of machine
> oils and such, you have to pay attention to exactly what it smells like.
>  There are webpages that give various examples of the different smells
> and their causes and the action necessary if it fits the scenario.
>
> If you DO think it was a burned wire or electrical component, you should
> certainly do a full inspection.  If you are proficient in electrical
> diagnostics, I'm sure you could hook up a meter to make sure things are
> working within limits.  The specs should be all in your documentation
> manuals. If not, I'm sure the stealer could.  Good luck resolving this
> and getting peace of mind!
>

I think the scope of the work (unknown at this point) would determine
your plan of action. There are a lot of good mobile RV technicians. You
might find one to come out and do an assessment/inspection for a
relatively reasonable fee. He may or may not be cheaper in the long run
than hauling it off to the dealer.

We are getting into the heart of the RV season so leaving it gathering
dust at the dealership until it gets to the front of the line might not
appeal to you.

In article <ZVjNN.729426$xHn7.256498@fx14.iad>, redydog@rye.net says...
> Considering the 4 hour round trip and the other problems you've had,
> my opinion is: Sometimes, paid-for convenience is better than free
> aggravation. That assumes, of course, that there is a nearby place
> that's competent enough to find the problem and fix it.
>
> --
> bill
> Theory don't mean squat if it don't work.
>

You bring up a good point I hadn't thought of. For warranty work on
his apliances he isn't limited to the original dealer. If it needs to be
repaired any authorized service center can do the work on his furnace.

I originially learned how to wrench on RVs at a propane plant.
They only sold appliances, but they had warranty contracts with all the
major gas appliance companies. We repaired a lot of RVs and some of that
was warranty work. All I needed was the customer's signature and the old
part to return to the company that made it. Every now and then we found
problems that weren't covered under the warranty. In that case we had to
charge the customer and it was up to them to ask the dealer for a
reimbursement. For example, we got a furnace that had the 12 volt wires
running under it. Traveling around the furnace case had vibrated and was
shorting out its 12 volt supply intermittantly. There was nothing wrong
with the furnace and I didn't have anything to send in for the warranty
claim.

The propane plant wasn't making much money on repair work. The real
profit was in bulk sales. They liked the warranty work because it
brought in potential propane customers. We were all sort of Frank Hill.
IOW selling propane. I also worked at an independent RV shop that didn't
sell RVs. Most of the time you only break even on warranty work, but
they welcomed it because it brought in customers.

TB

TB

On Fri, 29 Mar 2024 07:10:27 -0700,
Technobarbarian <technobarbarian@gmail.com> wrote:
> In article <ZVjNN.729426$xHn7.256498@fx14.iad>, redydog@rye.net says...
> > Considering the 4 hour round trip and the other problems
> > you've had, my opinion is: Sometimes, paid-for convenience is
> > better than free aggravation. That assumes, of course, that
> > there is a nearby place that's competent enough to find the
> > problem and fix it.

> You bring up a good point I hadn't thought of. For
> warranty work on his apliances he isn't limited to the original
> dealer. If it needs to be repaired any authorized service
> center can do the work on his furnace.

Good suggestions, thanks. The U.S. headquarters for Truma are in
Elkhart, which isn't meaningfully farther than the dealer. If I
decide to get it looked at, I'm a lot more confident they would
get it right. I sent the dealer a description of the problem and
a request for their advice. We'll see what comes back.

--
Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> West Lafayette, IN, USA

On Thu, 28 Mar 2024 20:04:16 -0500,
George Anthony <ganthony@gmail.org> wrote:
> On 3/28/2024 3:09 PM, sticks wrote:
> > On 3/28/2024 8:29 AM, Ted Heise wrote:
> >> Very helpful, thanks. Regarding the smell, I'm not convinced
> >> it was a burned wire (or component). Something hot, but
> >> maybe not burned. Given the past history with the dealer
> >> (many, many months to get a slide out repair), I'm not sure I
> >> want to take it to them. It's still under warranty though,
> >> so it seems they would be the best option.
> >
> > First, thanks for the report. I enjoyed it and am heading
> > that direction next week.

Let me know if you would like any more details of where we stayed
and what we did. Happy to share. E-mail in the headers is good.

> > As far as the smell is concerned, first question I would ask
> > is it the first time the furnace was used? If yes, I would
> > say it is normal. If it is the first time for the season, it
> > also could be considered normal as dust and other unwanted
> > things could have gotten in there and burned up. If it has
> > been used before and it is not an initial burn off of machine
> > oils and such, you have to pay attention to exactly what it
> > smells like.

Thanks for the input. The smell was definitely not a "heating of
accumulated dust after extended unuse" but neither was it a strong
smell. My nose is pretty senstitive, so I'm kind of inclined to
write it off as not significant.

> >  There are webpages that give various examples of the
> > different smells and their causes and the action necessary if
> > it fits the scenario.
> >
> > If you DO think it was a burned wire or electrical component,
> > you should certainly do a full inspection. If you are
> > proficient in electrical diagnostics, I'm sure you could hook
> > up a meter to make sure things are working within limits.
> > The specs should be all in your documentation manuals. If not,
> > I'm sure the stealer could. Good luck resolving this and
> > getting peace of mind!

I'm not that proficient. I once let the smoke out of a bank of
resistors on a q-switch board for a pulsed laser (it was pretty
obvious which ones were affected when they all turned bright red!)
but that was mostly luck. Working on this furnace is further
complicated by it being shoehorned into a very small space under
the refrigerator. I'm not sure how one would actually work on it
without pulling it out somehow, and I'm not sure how that would be
done. :-/

> I think the scope of the work (unknown at this point) would
> determine your plan of action. There are a lot of good mobile
> RV technicians. You might find one to come out and do an
> assessment/inspection for a relatively reasonable fee. He may
> or may not be cheaper in the long run than hauling it off to
> the dealer.
>
> We are getting into the heart of the RV season so leaving it
> gathering dust at the dealership until it gets to the front of
> the line might not appeal to you.

Great points. This dealer has been extremely slow to get work
done in the past, so that's a real disincentive to asking them to
work on it.

--
Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> West Lafayette, IN, USA

In the way of an update regarding the issues I posted about a
month ago...

On Wed, 27 Mar 2024 17:29:30 -0000 (UTC),
Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> wrote:

> 1) The trailer has a Truma Combi Eco Plus furnace/water heater.
> It threw off error messages a couple of times. First was
> said to be from blocked intake our outflow (found no
> blockage) and second suggested there was a fault with the
> combustion air motor. On top of that, I noticed a
> hot/burning wire/electronics smell at one point. After a
> lot of googling, I worked off the motor cover and gave it a
> spin with my fingers. After replacing the cover, the unit
> seemed to work fine.
>
> I'm a little leery about this one, not wanting to get stuck
> without heat when we're out some freezing night. My plan is
> to call the dealer and discuss it with them. I'm not sure
> it's worth dragging the trailer to them (almost 2 hours each
> way), unless they feel strongly they should look at it. At
> the least, I'll get it on the record with them.

After reporting an additional bout of errors (when trying to start
it up on the 12 V battery while in storage) to the dealer, they
told me I should bring it in. They ended up replacing the
combustion fan motor and the control board, all under warranty.

> 2) I'm suspicious of the battery (Interstate SRM-24). It was
> dead after just 5-6 weeks in storage (fully disconnected).
> After conditioning and charging, it seemed fine--but after
> just a day on electric heating it was dead again. The
> refrigerator was on propane so there shouldn't have been a
> lot else drawing from the battery. Am I expecting too much?

I'm still not sold on this battery, but the dealer thought it was
(and should be) okay. On the other hand, it was at 84% when I
picked up the trailer on Saturday, and down to 70% after a couple
of hours towing--with the 7-pin connected. I checked the output
at the towing vehicle, and it read ~14 V. Not sure what to think
about this matter.

--
Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> West Lafayette, IN, USA

Ted Heise wrote:
> In the way of an update regarding the issues I posted about a
> month ago...
>
>
> On Wed, 27 Mar 2024 17:29:30 -0000 (UTC),
> Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> wrote:
>
>> 1) The trailer has a Truma Combi Eco Plus furnace/water heater.
>> It threw off error messages a couple of times. First was
>> said to be from blocked intake our outflow (found no
>> blockage) and second suggested there was a fault with the
>> combustion air motor. On top of that, I noticed a
>> hot/burning wire/electronics smell at one point. After a
>> lot of googling, I worked off the motor cover and gave it a
>> spin with my fingers. After replacing the cover, the unit
>> seemed to work fine.
>>
>> I'm a little leery about this one, not wanting to get stuck
>> without heat when we're out some freezing night. My plan is
>> to call the dealer and discuss it with them. I'm not sure
>> it's worth dragging the trailer to them (almost 2 hours each
>> way), unless they feel strongly they should look at it. At
>> the least, I'll get it on the record with them.
>
> After reporting an additional bout of errors (when trying to start
> it up on the 12 V battery while in storage) to the dealer, they
> told me I should bring it in. They ended up replacing the
> combustion fan motor and the control board, all under warranty.
>
>
>> 2) I'm suspicious of the battery (Interstate SRM-24). It was
>> dead after just 5-6 weeks in storage (fully disconnected).
>> After conditioning and charging, it seemed fine--but after
>> just a day on electric heating it was dead again. The
>> refrigerator was on propane so there shouldn't have been a
>> lot else drawing from the battery. Am I expecting too much?
>
> I'm still not sold on this battery, but the dealer thought it was
> (and should be) okay. On the other hand, it was at 84% when I
> picked up the trailer on Saturday, and down to 70% after a couple
> of hours towing--with the 7-pin connected. I checked the output
> at the towing vehicle, and it read ~14 V. Not sure what to think
> about this matter.
>
In my pseudoexpert opinion, I allege that you're having a run of bad
luck - or you're being held accountable for some indiscretion or other
generally unacceptable behavior which you have not yet revealed.

--
bill
Theory don't mean squat if it don't work.

On Mon, 29 Apr 2024 12:54:13 -0400,
bfh <redydog@rye.net> wrote:
> Ted Heise wrote:
> > In the way of an update regarding the issues I posted about a
> > month ago...

> >> 2) I'm suspicious of the battery (Interstate SRM-24). It
> >> was dead after just 5-6 weeks in storage (fully
> >> disconnected). After conditioning and charging, it
> >> seemed fine--but after just a day on electric heating it
> >> was dead again. The refrigerator was on propane so
> >> there shouldn't have been a lot else drawing from the
> >> battery. Am I expecting too much?
> >
> > I'm still not sold on this battery, but the dealer thought it
> > was (and should be) okay. On the other hand, it was at 84%
> > when I picked up the trailer on Saturday, and down to 70%
> > after a couple of hours towing--with the 7-pin connected. I
> > checked the output at the towing vehicle, and it read ~14 V.
> > Not sure what to think about this matter.
>
> In my pseudoexpert opinion, I allege that you're having a run
> of bad luck - or you're being held accountable for some
> indiscretion or other generally unacceptable behavior which you
> have not yet revealed.

Gremlins! I just *knew* it!

--
Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> West Lafayette, IN, USA

Ted Heise wrote:
> On Mon, 29 Apr 2024 12:54:13 -0400,
> bfh <redydog@rye.net> wrote:
>> Ted Heise wrote:
>>> In the way of an update regarding the issues I posted about a
>>> month ago...
>
>>>> 2) I'm suspicious of the battery (Interstate SRM-24). It
>>>> was dead after just 5-6 weeks in storage (fully
>>>> disconnected). After conditioning and charging, it
>>>> seemed fine--but after just a day on electric heating it
>>>> was dead again. The refrigerator was on propane so
>>>> there shouldn't have been a lot else drawing from the
>>>> battery. Am I expecting too much?
>>>
>>> I'm still not sold on this battery, but the dealer thought it
>>> was (and should be) okay. On the other hand, it was at 84%
>>> when I picked up the trailer on Saturday, and down to 70%
>>> after a couple of hours towing--with the 7-pin connected. I
>>> checked the output at the towing vehicle, and it read ~14 V.
>>> Not sure what to think about this matter.
>>
>> In my pseudoexpert opinion, I allege that you're having a run
>> of bad luck - or you're being held accountable for some
>> indiscretion or other generally unacceptable behavior which you
>> have not yet revealed.
>
> Gremlins! I just *knew* it!
>
damn. I hope not. They're significantly statistically worse than just
normal bad luck, and will require that you put all of the tools in
your toolbox on the table.

--
bill
Theory don't mean squat if it don't work.

On 4/29/2024 9:19 AM, Ted Heise wrote:
> In the way of an update regarding the issues I posted about a
> month ago...
>
>
> On Wed, 27 Mar 2024 17:29:30 -0000 (UTC),
> Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> wrote:
>
>> 1) The trailer has a Truma Combi Eco Plus furnace/water heater.
>> It threw off error messages a couple of times. First was
>> said to be from blocked intake our outflow (found no
>> blockage) and second suggested there was a fault with the
>> combustion air motor. On top of that, I noticed a
>> hot/burning wire/electronics smell at one point. After a
>> lot of googling, I worked off the motor cover and gave it a
>> spin with my fingers. After replacing the cover, the unit
>> seemed to work fine.
>>
>> I'm a little leery about this one, not wanting to get stuck
>> without heat when we're out some freezing night. My plan is
>> to call the dealer and discuss it with them. I'm not sure
>> it's worth dragging the trailer to them (almost 2 hours each
>> way), unless they feel strongly they should look at it. At
>> the least, I'll get it on the record with them.
>
> After reporting an additional bout of errors (when trying to start
> it up on the 12 V battery while in storage) to the dealer, they
> told me I should bring it in. They ended up replacing the
> combustion fan motor and the control board, all under warranty.
>
>
>> 2) I'm suspicious of the battery (Interstate SRM-24). It was
>> dead after just 5-6 weeks in storage (fully disconnected).
>> After conditioning and charging, it seemed fine--but after
>> just a day on electric heating it was dead again. The
>> refrigerator was on propane so there shouldn't have been a
>> lot else drawing from the battery. Am I expecting too much?
>
> I'm still not sold on this battery, but the dealer thought it was
> (and should be) okay. On the other hand, it was at 84% when I
> picked up the trailer on Saturday, and down to 70% after a couple
> of hours towing--with the 7-pin connected. I checked the output
> at the towing vehicle, and it read ~14 V. Not sure what to think
> about this matter.
>

I may have missed it but did you check the specific gravity of each
cell? Check the voltage at the trailer battery (while connected to tow
vehicle with the engine running. Also, be sure you have good ground
connections.

On Mon, 29 Apr 2024 13:36:58 -0500,
George Anthony <ganthony@gmail.org> wrote:
> On 4/29/2024 9:19 AM, Ted Heise wrote:
> > In the way of an update regarding the issues I posted about a
> > month ago...

> >> 2) I'm suspicious of the battery (Interstate SRM-24). It
> >> was dead after just 5-6 weeks in storage (fully
> >> disconnected). After conditioning and charging, it
> >> seemed fine--but after just a day on electric heating it
> >> was dead again. The refrigerator was on propane so
> >> there shouldn't have been a lot else drawing from the
> >> battery. Am I expecting too much?
> >
> > I'm still not sold on this battery, but the dealer thought it
> > was (and should be) okay. On the other hand, it was at 84%
> > when I picked up the trailer on Saturday, and down to 70%
> > after a couple of hours towing--with the 7-pin connected. I
> > checked the output at the towing vehicle, and it read ~14 V.
> > Not sure what to think about this matter.
>
> I may have missed it but did you check the specific gravity of
> each cell? Check the voltage at the trailer battery (while
> connected to tow vehicle with the engine running. Also, be sure
> you have good ground connections.

Ah, good suggestions. I got rid of my spec grav tester when I
quit working on my own cars, but will pick up a new one. I'll
also check the other pieces you pointed out.

Thanks!

--
Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> West Lafayette, IN, USA

In article <slrnv2vb4f.85.theise@panix2.panix.com>, theise@panix.com
says...
>
> In the way of an update regarding the issues I posted about a
> month ago...
>
>
> On Wed, 27 Mar 2024 17:29:30 -0000 (UTC),
> Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> wrote:
>
> > 1) The trailer has a Truma Combi Eco Plus furnace/water heater.
> > It threw off error messages a couple of times. First was
> > said to be from blocked intake our outflow (found no
> > blockage) and second suggested there was a fault with the
> > combustion air motor. On top of that, I noticed a
> > hot/burning wire/electronics smell at one point. After a
> > lot of googling, I worked off the motor cover and gave it a
> > spin with my fingers. After replacing the cover, the unit
> > seemed to work fine.
> >
> > I'm a little leery about this one, not wanting to get stuck
> > without heat when we're out some freezing night. My plan is
> > to call the dealer and discuss it with them. I'm not sure
> > it's worth dragging the trailer to them (almost 2 hours each
> > way), unless they feel strongly they should look at it. At
> > the least, I'll get it on the record with them.
>
> After reporting an additional bout of errors (when trying to start
> it up on the 12 V battery while in storage) to the dealer, they
> told me I should bring it in. They ended up replacing the
> combustion fan motor and the control board, all under warranty.
>
>
> > 2) I'm suspicious of the battery (Interstate SRM-24). It was
> > dead after just 5-6 weeks in storage (fully disconnected).
> > After conditioning and charging, it seemed fine--but after
> > just a day on electric heating it was dead again. The
> > refrigerator was on propane so there shouldn't have been a
> > lot else drawing from the battery. Am I expecting too much?
>
> I'm still not sold on this battery, but the dealer thought it was
> (and should be) okay. On the other hand, it was at 84% when I
> picked up the trailer on Saturday, and down to 70% after a couple
> of hours towing--with the 7-pin connected. I checked the output
> at the towing vehicle, and it read ~14 V. Not sure what to think
> about this matter.

Thanks for the update.

What you are describing sounds like an internal short in the
battery. The battery is likely to be covered under a manufacturer's
warranty. I'd suggest that you take it somewhere that sells that brand
and have them check it.

TB

In article <MPG.409b18ebf311de4e989780@reader80.eternal-september.org>,
technobarbarian@gmail.com says...
> > I'm still not sold on this battery, but the dealer thought it was
> > (and should be) okay. On the other hand, it was at 84% when I
> > picked up the trailer on Saturday, and down to 70% after a couple
> > of hours towing--with the 7-pin connected. I checked the output
> > at the towing vehicle, and it read ~14 V. Not sure what to think
> > about this matter.
>
> Thanks for the update.
>
> What you are describing sounds like an internal short in the
> battery. The battery is likely to be covered under a manufacturer's
> warranty. I'd suggest that you take it somewhere that sells that brand
> and have them check it.
>
> TB
>

I had a second thought about your RV problems. It's unusual for two
components in a furnace to fail at the same time. Along with you hinky
battery I'm starting to wonder if your RV got too much electical power
at some point along the way. If you don't have a surge protector you
might want to consider adding one.

TB

On Tue, 30 Apr 2024 17:07:58 -0700,
Technobarbarian <technobarbarian@gmail.com> wrote:
> In article <MPG.409b18ebf311de4e989780@reader80.eternal-september.org>,
> technobarbarian@gmail.com says...
> > > I'm still not sold on this battery, but the dealer thought
> > > it was (and should be) okay. On the other hand, it was at
> > > 84% when I picked up the trailer on Saturday, and down to
> > > 70% after a couple of hours towing--with the 7-pin
> > > connected. I checked the output at the towing vehicle, and
> > > it read ~14 V. Not sure what to think about this matter.
> >
> > Thanks for the update.
> >
> > What you are describing sounds like an internal short in
> > the battery. The battery is likely to be covered under a
> > manufacturer's warranty. I'd suggest that you take it
> > somewhere that sells that brand and have them check it.
>
> I had a second thought about your RV problems. It's
> unusual for two components in a furnace to fail at the same
> time. Along with you hinky battery I'm starting to wonder if
> your RV got too much electical power at some point along the
> way. If you don't have a surge protector you might want to
> consider adding one.

Good observation! The dealer told me that only one of the two
parts was bad (sounded like they or Truma might not have been sure
which) and that it was best to just replace them both.

--
Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> West Lafayette, IN, USA

On 5/1/2024 6:37 PM, Ted Heise wrote:
> On Tue, 30 Apr 2024 17:07:58 -0700,
> Technobarbarian <technobarbarian@gmail.com> wrote:
>> In article <MPG.409b18ebf311de4e989780@reader80.eternal-september.org>,
>> technobarbarian@gmail.com says...
>>>> I'm still not sold on this battery, but the dealer thought
>>>> it was (and should be) okay. On the other hand, it was at
>>>> 84% when I picked up the trailer on Saturday, and down to
>>>> 70% after a couple of hours towing--with the 7-pin
>>>> connected. I checked the output at the towing vehicle, and
>>>> it read ~14 V. Not sure what to think about this matter.
>>>
>>> Thanks for the update.
>>>
>>> What you are describing sounds like an internal short in
>>> the battery. The battery is likely to be covered under a
>>> manufacturer's warranty. I'd suggest that you take it
>>> somewhere that sells that brand and have them check it.
>>
>> I had a second thought about your RV problems. It's
>> unusual for two components in a furnace to fail at the same
>> time. Along with you hinky battery I'm starting to wonder if
>> your RV got too much electical power at some point along the
>> way. If you don't have a surge protector you might want to
>> consider adding one.
>
> Good observation! The dealer told me that only one of the two
> parts was bad (sounded like they or Truma might not have been sure
> which) and that it was best to just replace them both.
>

What ever happened to analysts, troubleshooters and problem solvers? All
they are these days are parts changers.. especially for warranty work.
That kind of stuff is not that hard to figure out if you have even a
rudimentary knowlege of RV electrical systems.

In article <v0uqfo$3fmbi$1@dont-email.me>, ganthony@gmail.org says...
>
> On 5/1/2024 6:37 PM, Ted Heise wrote:
> > On Tue, 30 Apr 2024 17:07:58 -0700,
> > Technobarbarian <technobarbarian@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> In article <MPG.409b18ebf311de4e989780@reader80.eternal-september.org>,
> >> technobarbarian@gmail.com says...
> >>>> I'm still not sold on this battery, but the dealer thought
> >>>> it was (and should be) okay. On the other hand, it was at
> >>>> 84% when I picked up the trailer on Saturday, and down to
> >>>> 70% after a couple of hours towing--with the 7-pin
> >>>> connected. I checked the output at the towing vehicle, and
> >>>> it read ~14 V. Not sure what to think about this matter.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks for the update.
> >>>
> >>> What you are describing sounds like an internal short in
> >>> the battery. The battery is likely to be covered under a
> >>> manufacturer's warranty. I'd suggest that you take it
> >>> somewhere that sells that brand and have them check it.
> >>
> >> I had a second thought about your RV problems. It's
> >> unusual for two components in a furnace to fail at the same
> >> time. Along with you hinky battery I'm starting to wonder if
> >> your RV got too much electical power at some point along the
> >> way. If you don't have a surge protector you might want to
> >> consider adding one.
> >
> > Good observation! The dealer told me that only one of the two
> > parts was bad (sounded like they or Truma might not have been sure
> > which) and that it was best to just replace them both.
> >
>
> What ever happened to analysts, troubleshooters and problem solvers? All
> they are these days are parts changers.. especially for warranty work.
> That kind of stuff is not that hard to figure out if you have even a
> rudimentary knowlege of RV electrical systems.

They might have been right. Even if they were wrong, sometimes it's
best to err on the side of caution. If you screw up a furnace repair
it's possible for the furnace to self-destruct. If you get the right
mixture of propane and air in the furnace's combustion chamber, and a
delayed spark, the resulting explosion will ruin the furnance. I've only
seen this once and the damage was limited to the furnace. That was back
in the early days of electronic ignition.

You should also keep in mind that traditionally RV techs are
poorly paid. I had to get out of wrenching on RVs because I could make
better money doing anything else. The result is that most RV techs are
young men who don't have a lot of experience. Most of the time they got
all of their training on the job.

And repairing RVs isn't as simple as you think it is. These days
to properly check the circuit board in a furnace you need a fancy bit of
test equipment that the dealership may or may not have available. Back
in the early days circuit board failures were common. That ended a long
time ago.

TB

On 5/2/2024 9:02 AM, Technobarbarian wrote:
> In article <v0uqfo$3fmbi$1@dont-email.me>, ganthony@gmail.org says...
>>
>> On 5/1/2024 6:37 PM, Ted Heise wrote:
>>> On Tue, 30 Apr 2024 17:07:58 -0700,
>>> Technobarbarian <technobarbarian@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> In article <MPG.409b18ebf311de4e989780@reader80.eternal-september.org>,
>>>> technobarbarian@gmail.com says...
>>>>>> I'm still not sold on this battery, but the dealer thought
>>>>>> it was (and should be) okay. On the other hand, it was at
>>>>>> 84% when I picked up the trailer on Saturday, and down to
>>>>>> 70% after a couple of hours towing--with the 7-pin
>>>>>> connected. I checked the output at the towing vehicle, and
>>>>>> it read ~14 V. Not sure what to think about this matter.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for the update.
>>>>>
>>>>> What you are describing sounds like an internal short in
>>>>> the battery. The battery is likely to be covered under a
>>>>> manufacturer's warranty. I'd suggest that you take it
>>>>> somewhere that sells that brand and have them check it.
>>>>
>>>> I had a second thought about your RV problems. It's
>>>> unusual for two components in a furnace to fail at the same
>>>> time. Along with you hinky battery I'm starting to wonder if
>>>> your RV got too much electical power at some point along the
>>>> way. If you don't have a surge protector you might want to
>>>> consider adding one.
>>>
>>> Good observation! The dealer told me that only one of the two
>>> parts was bad (sounded like they or Truma might not have been sure
>>> which) and that it was best to just replace them both.
>>>
>>
>> What ever happened to analysts, troubleshooters and problem solvers? All
>> they are these days are parts changers.. especially for warranty work.
>> That kind of stuff is not that hard to figure out if you have even a
>> rudimentary knowlege of RV electrical systems.
>
> They might have been right. Even if they were wrong, sometimes it's
> best to err on the side of caution. If you screw up a furnace repair
> it's possible for the furnace to self-destruct. If you get the right
> mixture of propane and air in the furnace's combustion chamber, and a
> delayed spark, the resulting explosion will ruin the furnance. I've only
> seen this once and the damage was limited to the furnace. That was back
> in the early days of electronic ignition.
>
> You should also keep in mind that traditionally RV techs are
> poorly paid. I had to get out of wrenching on RVs because I could make
> better money doing anything else. The result is that most RV techs are
> young men who don't have a lot of experience. Most of the time they got
> all of their training on the job.
>
> And repairing RVs isn't as simple as you think it is. These days
> to properly check the circuit board in a furnace you need a fancy bit of
> test equipment that the dealership may or may not have available. Back
> in the early days circuit board failures were common. That ended a long
> time ago.
>
> TB
>

Electricity is electricity. RV or otherwise it doesn't change. These
"technicians" at dealerships should have the necessary equipment to work
with. And even if they are low paid, even a democrat can be trained.

In the case of circuit boards, that is in my opinion in most cases, one
instance where just replacing the whole board makes sense. These things
are chump change to manufacture and on a pure cost basis, replacement is
a lot cheaper than trying to troubleshoot the issue, especially if it is
intermittent.

On Mon, 29 Apr 2024 23:01:13 -0000 (UTC),
Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 29 Apr 2024 13:36:58 -0500,
> George Anthony <ganthony@gmail.org> wrote:
> > On 4/29/2024 9:19 AM, Ted Heise wrote:
> > > In the way of an update regarding the issues I posted about a
> > > month ago...
>
> > >> 2) I'm suspicious of the battery (Interstate SRM-24).
> > >> It was dead after just 5-6 weeks in storage (fully
> > >> disconnected). After conditioning and charging, it
> > >> seemed fine--but after just a day on electric heating
> > >> it was dead again. The refrigerator was on propane so
> > >> there shouldn't have been a lot else drawing from the
> > >> battery. Am I expecting too much?
> > >
> > > I'm still not sold on this battery, but the dealer thought
> > > it was (and should be) okay. On the other hand, it was at
> > > 84% when I picked up the trailer on Saturday, and down to
> > > 70% after a couple of hours towing--with the 7-pin
> > > connected. I checked the output at the towing vehicle, and
> > > it read ~14 V. Not sure what to think about this matter.
> >
> > I may have missed it but did you check the specific gravity
> > of each cell? Check the voltage at the trailer battery (while
> > connected to tow vehicle with the engine running. Also, be
> > sure you have good ground connections.
>
> Ah, good suggestions. I got rid of my spec grav tester when I
> quit working on my own cars, but will pick up a new one. I'll
> also check the other pieces you pointed out.

Okay, so I just got my tow vehicle back from repair (bashed in the
lift gate backing into a telephone pole, DOH!) and was finally
able to look into this further.

Battery read just over 12 V across the terminals with the trailer
disconnect switch off. After turning it on, the multimeter gave
the same reading and the monitor in the trailer was consistent
with that...

http://panix.com/~theise/off-tow.jpg

Next I hooked up the 7-pin plug to the tow vehicle. It read about
14 V at the terminals and on the battery monitor...

http://panix.com/~theise/on-tow.jpg

FWIW, the gauge on the tow vehicle dashboard also read ~14 V.

A few minutes later, all readings had dropped to a bit over 12.
Not sure what to make of that. The tow vehicle has been showing
that same fluctuation, and its battery and alternator checked out
fine at the dealer. The tech said it might just drop when nothing
needs to be charging. That makes sense to me in theory, but it
seems the trailer battery still needed some charging.

Next, I took the trailer battery in to Interstate. They said it
checked out okay, Specifically, their device reported 80% health,
53% charge, 12.22 V, and 552 of 690 CCA capacity. He indicated
with the monitor readings I had and his test results it was
probably going to need replacing before too long.

I asked him to check the cells, and one of them had markedly lower
specific gravity than the other five. He didn't have any
suggestions for addressing this finding.

A few more questions for the brain trust:

1) The battery monitor (Go Power! GP-BMK-25) is a bit mysterious
to me, and the info I find online is not that helpful. For
example, the voltage, current, and power all go up when on the
running tow vehicle, but the time remaining drops from 52:54 to
08:57 -- WTF? Maybe it's just not a valid measurement when
charging.

2) How do I check that the ground connection is good? I'm a bit
of a dummy on much of this.

3) Think I'll put the battery on a reconditioning cycle (again)
and try it one more time before replacing. Last time I ran
overnight without shore power the battery was dead in the
morning. Any other suggestions?

4) My sense is that even when in top condition this type of
battery doesn't have enough capacity for much boondocking.
I'm considering going to a pair of 6 V golf cart batteries in
series to get more than double the capacity. Does that seem
reasonable?

Thanks again for the help so far!

--
Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> West Lafayette, IN, USA

On 5/9/2024 4:26 PM, Ted Heise wrote:
> On Mon, 29 Apr 2024 23:01:13 -0000 (UTC),
> Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 29 Apr 2024 13:36:58 -0500,
>> George Anthony <ganthony@gmail.org> wrote:
>>> On 4/29/2024 9:19 AM, Ted Heise wrote:
>>>> In the way of an update regarding the issues I posted about a
>>>> month ago...
>>
>>>>> 2) I'm suspicious of the battery (Interstate SRM-24).
>>>>> It was dead after just 5-6 weeks in storage (fully
>>>>> disconnected). After conditioning and charging, it
>>>>> seemed fine--but after just a day on electric heating
>>>>> it was dead again. The refrigerator was on propane so
>>>>> there shouldn't have been a lot else drawing from the
>>>>> battery. Am I expecting too much?
>>>>
>>>> I'm still not sold on this battery, but the dealer thought
>>>> it was (and should be) okay. On the other hand, it was at
>>>> 84% when I picked up the trailer on Saturday, and down to
>>>> 70% after a couple of hours towing--with the 7-pin
>>>> connected. I checked the output at the towing vehicle, and
>>>> it read ~14 V. Not sure what to think about this matter.
>>>
>>> I may have missed it but did you check the specific gravity
>>> of each cell? Check the voltage at the trailer battery (while
>>> connected to tow vehicle with the engine running. Also, be
>>> sure you have good ground connections.
>>
>> Ah, good suggestions. I got rid of my spec grav tester when I
>> quit working on my own cars, but will pick up a new one. I'll
>> also check the other pieces you pointed out.
>
> Okay, so I just got my tow vehicle back from repair (bashed in the
> lift gate backing into a telephone pole, DOH!) and was finally
> able to look into this further.
>
> Battery read just over 12 V across the terminals with the trailer
> disconnect switch off. After turning it on, the multimeter gave
> the same reading and the monitor in the trailer was consistent
> with that...
>
> http://panix.com/~theise/off-tow.jpg
>
> Next I hooked up the 7-pin plug to the tow vehicle. It read about
> 14 V at the terminals and on the battery monitor...
>
> http://panix.com/~theise/on-tow.jpg
>
> FWIW, the gauge on the tow vehicle dashboard also read ~14 V.
>
> A few minutes later, all readings had dropped to a bit over 12.
> Not sure what to make of that. The tow vehicle has been showing
> that same fluctuation, and its battery and alternator checked out
> fine at the dealer. The tech said it might just drop when nothing
> needs to be charging. That makes sense to me in theory, but it
> seems the trailer battery still needed some charging.
>
> Next, I took the trailer battery in to Interstate. They said it
> checked out okay, Specifically, their device reported 80% health,
> 53% charge, 12.22 V, and 552 of 690 CCA capacity. He indicated
> with the monitor readings I had and his test results it was
> probably going to need replacing before too long.
>
> I asked him to check the cells, and one of them had markedly lower
> specific gravity than the other five. He didn't have any
> suggestions for addressing this finding.

Replace the battery, preferably with a deep cycle one.

>
> A few more questions for the brain trust:
>
> 1) The battery monitor (Go Power! GP-BMK-25) is a bit mysterious
> to me, and the info I find online is not that helpful. For
> example, the voltage, current, and power all go up when on the
> running tow vehicle, but the time remaining drops from 52:54 to
> 08:57 -- WTF? Maybe it's just not a valid measurement when
> charging.

I think you have checked this already but voltage at the trailer battery
should be between 13 and 14 volts with engine running with trailer
connected. Usually around 13.8. You would likely see this voltage even
on a battery with a bad cell. If it's lower than that you probably have
a problem with the charging system/circuit.
>
> 2) How do I check that the ground connection is good? I'm a bit
> of a dummy on much of this.

Difficult to isolate some time. I find the easiest way for me is to just
find all the ground connections, make sure they are free of corrosion
and not loose. It can be a process.
>
> 3) Think I'll put the battery on a reconditioning cycle (again)
> and try it one more time before replacing. Last time I ran
> overnight without shore power the battery was dead in the
> morning. Any other suggestions?
>
> 4) My sense is that even when in top condition this type of
> battery doesn't have enough capacity for much boondocking.
> I'm considering going to a pair of 6 V golf cart batteries in
> series to get more than double the capacity. Does that seem
> reasonable?

Yes. Again, deep cycle batteries. Regular 12v auto batteries are not
made to be discharged and recharged over and over. Of course, if you hit
the lottery you could go with lithium.

If within your budget, I would just replace the trailer battery with one
12v or two 6v as you suggested.

>
> Thanks again for the help so far!
>

On Thu, 9 May 2024 17:46:07 -0500,
George Anthony <ganthony@gmail.org> wrote:
> On 5/9/2024 4:26 PM, Ted Heise wrote:

> > Okay, so I just got my tow vehicle back from repair (bashed in
> > the lift gate backing into a telephone pole, DOH!) and was
> > finally able to look into this further.
> >
> > Battery read just over 12 V across the terminals with the
> > trailer disconnect switch off. After turning it on, the
> > multimeter gave the same reading and the monitor in the
> > trailer was consistent with that...
> >
> > http://panix.com/~theise/off-tow.jpg
> >
> > Next I hooked up the 7-pin plug to the tow vehicle. It read
> > about 14 V at the terminals and on the battery monitor...
> >
> > http://panix.com/~theise/on-tow.jpg
> >
> > FWIW, the gauge on the tow vehicle dashboard also read ~14 V.
> >
> > A few minutes later, all readings had dropped to a bit over
> > 12. Not sure what to make of that. The tow vehicle has been
> > showing that same fluctuation, and its battery and alternator
> > checked out fine at the dealer. The tech said it might just
> > drop when nothing needs to be charging. That makes sense to
> > me in theory, but it seems the trailer battery still needed
> > some charging.
> >
> > Next, I took the trailer battery in to Interstate. They said
> > it checked out okay, Specifically, their device reported 80%
> > health, 53% charge, 12.22 V, and 552 of 690 CCA capacity. He
> > indicated with the monitor readings I had and his test results
> > it was probably going to need replacing before too long.
> >
> > I asked him to check the cells, and one of them had markedly
> > lower specific gravity than the other five. He didn't have
> > any suggestions for addressing this finding.
>
> Replace the battery, preferably with a deep cycle one.

THanks, George.

FWIW, the current battery is a deep cycle model.

> > 1) The battery monitor (Go Power! GP-BMK-25) is a bit
> > mysterious
> > to me, and the info I find online is not that helpful.
> > For example, the voltage, current, and power all go up
> > when on the running tow vehicle, but the time remaining
> > drops from 52:54 to 08:57 -- WTF? Maybe it's just not a
> > valid measurement when charging.
>
> I think you have checked this already but voltage at the
> trailer battery should be between 13 and 14 volts with engine
> running with trailer connected. Usually around 13.8. You would
> likely see this voltage even on a battery with a bad cell. If
> it's lower than that you probably have a problem with the
> charging system/circuit.

Yep, this checks out okay.

> > 2) How do I check that the ground connection is good? I'm a
> > bit
> > of a dummy on much of this.
>
> Difficult to isolate some time. I find the easiest way for me
> is to just find all the ground connections, make sure they are
> free of corrosion and not loose. It can be a process.

Thanks.

> > 4) My sense is that even when in top condition this type of
> > battery doesn't have enough capacity for much boondocking.
> > I'm considering going to a pair of 6 V golf cart batteries
> > in series to get more than double the capacity. Does that
> > seem reasonable?
>
> Yes. Again, deep cycle batteries. Regular 12v auto batteries
> are not made to be discharged and recharged over and over. Of
> course, if you hit the lottery you could go with lithium.
>
> If within your budget, I would just replace the trailer battery
> with one 12v or two 6v as you suggested.

> > Thanks again for the help so far!

Ditto.

--
Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> West Lafayette, IN, USA