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interests / rec.games.roguelike.nethack / [evilhack] Wishing suggestions?

SubjectAuthor
* [evilhack] Wishing suggestions?Janis Papanagnou
+* [evilhack] Wishing suggestions?Mobi Leuser
|+* [evilhack] Wishing suggestions?G. Raznop
||`* [evilhack] Wishing suggestions?Janis Papanagnou
|| `* [evilhack] Wishing suggestions?G. Raznop
||  `* [evilhack] Wishing suggestions?Janis Papanagnou
||   `* [evilhack] Ice Queen quest (was Re: Wishing suggestions?)Janis Papanagnou
||    +* [evilhack] Ice Queen quest (was Re: Wishing suggestions?)G. Raznop
||    |`- [evilhack] Ice Queen quest (was Re: Wishing suggestions?)Janis Papanagnou
||    `* [evilhack] Ice Queen quest (was Re: Wishing suggestions?)Janis Papanagnou
||     `* [evilhack] Ice Queen questJanis Papanagnou
||      `- [evilhack] Ice Queen questRecRanger
|+- [evilhack] Wishing suggestions?Janis Papanagnou
|`* [evilhack] Wishing suggestions?Janis Papanagnou
| `* [evilhack] Wishing suggestions?G. Raznop
|  +* [evilhack] Wishing suggestions?Janis Papanagnou
|  |`* [evilhack] Wishing suggestions?G. Raznop
|  | `* [evilhack] Wishing suggestions?Janis Papanagnou
|  |  `- [evilhack] Wishing suggestions?G. Raznop
|  `* [evilhack] Wishing suggestions?Janis Papanagnou
|   `* [evilhack] Wishing suggestions?Mobi Leuser
|    `* [evilhack] Wishing suggestions?Janis Papanagnou
|     `- [evilhack] Wishing suggestions?Mobi Leuser
`* [evilhack] Wishing suggestions?Janis Papanagnou
 +- [evilhack] Wishing suggestions?Mobi Leuser
 `- [evilhack] Wishing suggestions?Loggers VIII

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[evilhack] Wishing suggestions?

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From: janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com (Janis Papanagnou)
Newsgroups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack
Subject: [evilhack] Wishing suggestions?
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2023 14:58:15 +0200
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 by: Janis Papanagnou - Fri, 14 Apr 2023 12:58 UTC

My EvilHack tortle Monk has two wands of wishing (from a bones heap
and from the Castle) and some yet untested thrones. I am reluctant
to try the thrones, though, for I have no idea what to wish for.
My armor is restricted (for tortles) and the three pieces that are
allowed are already quite good. My weapon is also a good artifact.
Magic markers cannot be wished for (IIUC). - So what to wish for?
One thing I'd like is flying (from amulet), but my amulet slot is
already covered by an amulet of magic resistance. From the wikipage
the "Ring of P'hul" (free action, magic resistance when worn and
disease resistance) looks very interesting; it would also free the
amulet slot for flying. (Its disease resistance may not be that
interesting any more now since I genocided locusts.) - I suppose
I can safely wish for artifacts if I never wished for any? (IIUC,
number of existing artifacts doesn't matter for the wishing odds?)

Janis

Re: [evilhack] Wishing suggestions?

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Subject: Re: [evilhack] Wishing suggestions?
From: nethackmobileuser@gmail.com (Mobi Leuser)
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 by: Mobi Leuser - Fri, 14 Apr 2023 13:10 UTC

On Friday, 14 April 2023 at 14:58:20 UTC+2, Janis Papanagnou wrote:
> My EvilHack tortle Monk has two wands of wishing (from a bones heap
> and from the Castle) and some yet untested thrones. I am reluctant
> to try the thrones, though, for I have no idea what to wish for.
> My armor is restricted (for tortles) and the three pieces that are
> allowed are already quite good. My weapon is also a good artifact.
> Magic markers cannot be wished for (IIUC). - So what to wish for?
> One thing I'd like is flying (from amulet), but my amulet slot is
> already covered by an amulet of magic resistance. From the wikipage
> the "Ring of P'hul" (free action, magic resistance when worn and
> disease resistance) looks very interesting; it would also free the
> amulet slot for flying. (Its disease resistance may not be that
> interesting any more now since I genocided locusts.) - I suppose
> I can safely wish for artifacts if I never wished for any? (IIUC,
> number of existing artifacts doesn't matter for the wishing odds?)
>
> Janis

Magic markers can actually be wished for. Magic lamps too if you need permalight.
What is your alignment? I think you need to be chaotic to wish for Ring of P'hul.
Maybe this recent tortle monk ascension can give you some more ideas?
https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/G/Graznop/evilhack/dumplog/1680643929.evil.txt
Notice that Gauntlets of Purity and Ashmar can't be wished for, they need to be forged.
Dragonbane are gloves that grant reflection and acid resistance, it's a popular wish.

Re: [evilhack] Wishing suggestions?

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Subject: Re: [evilhack] Wishing suggestions?
From: peterg17986@gmail.com (G. Raznop)
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 by: G. Raznop - Fri, 14 Apr 2023 13:52 UTC

Re. the above ascension, in hindsight I wouldn't have made the Gauntlets of Purity - sticking with Dragonbane would have given me more flexibility elsewhere.
Your first wish for an artifact will be successful - the Wiki has more details: https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/EvilHack#Wishing_for_artifacts
If you are neutral, possibly The Eye of the Aethiopica?
The Eyes of the Overworld will allow you to free up the amulet slot for flying (have a backup plan for MR when the wizard is awake).
To partly answer your Master Kaen questions in the other thread, the above character had 195 HP and an AC of -20 when completing the quest. Master Kaen was defeated from within a boulder fort on the upstairs, throwing shuriken - but being helped by a tame Balrog on the outside - I suspect the Balrog did most of the damage.

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From: janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com (Janis Papanagnou)
Newsgroups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack
Subject: Re: [evilhack] Wishing suggestions?
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2023 21:10:45 +0200
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 by: Janis Papanagnou - Fri, 14 Apr 2023 19:10 UTC

On 14.04.2023 15:52, G. Raznop wrote:
> If you
> are neutral, possibly The Eye of the Aethiopica? The Eyes of the
> Overworld will allow you to free up the amulet slot for flying [...]

The Eyes are out of my reach, unfortunately, due to the permanent
alignment abuse record. (I wouldn't want that huge permanent luck
recovery penalty when killing the quest leader.)

> [...] - but being helped by a tame Balrog on the outside - I
> suspect the Balrog did most of the damage.

Where did you get that tame demon from? (I'm not yet in Gehennom.)

Janis

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Subject: Re: [evilhack] Wishing suggestions?
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 by: Janis Papanagnou - Fri, 14 Apr 2023 19:05 UTC

On 14.04.2023 15:10, Mobi Leuser wrote:
>
> Magic markers can actually be wished for.

Oh! - Okay. Good to know. (Not sure where I got that from that markers
can't be wished for; I probably confused that with polypile outcomes.)

> Magic lamps too if you need permalight.

I already have one.

> What is your alignment? I think you need to be chaotic to wish for Ring of P'hul.

I thought I was Chaotic, but actually I am Neutral, so no fine Ring
for me. :-( Would have fitted quite well.

> [...]
> Dragonbane are gloves that grant reflection and acid resistance, it's a popular wish.

I actually have these gauntlets, though stashed in my bag. Because of
the bad dexterity that tortles have I had decided to wear a fireproof
pair of +5 gauntlets of dexterity that I got from sacrifices (IIRC).

Janis

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Subject: Re: [evilhack] Wishing suggestions?
From: peterg17986@gmail.com (G. Raznop)
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 by: G. Raznop - Sat, 15 Apr 2023 10:04 UTC

On Friday, 14 April 2023 at 20:10:49 UTC+1, Janis Papanagnou wrote:
> The Eyes are out of my reach, unfortunately, due to the permanent
> alignment abuse record. (I wouldn't want that huge permanent luck
> recovery penalty when killing the quest leader.)

If you have "gravely abused your alignment", then yes, you'd need to kill your quest leader to win the game. If you have only "severely abused your alignment" then you have a good chance of being allowed to keep the quest artifact.
You can leave the quest branch with the Eyes without talking to the quest leader and worry about them later (the Bell won't work for the invocation until they've been dealt with) - flying makes exploring Gehonnom much more fun!
Even the permanent luck penalty isn't so bad - just maximise luck before starting the ascension run. I've never noticed an issue.

> Where did you get that tame demon from? (I'm not yet in Gehennom.)

I had the "Orc Temple" version of Mines' End, which always has a figurine of a Balrog.

G.

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Subject: Re: [evilhack] Wishing suggestions?
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 by: Janis Papanagnou - Sat, 15 Apr 2023 12:41 UTC

On 15.04.2023 12:04, G. Raznop wrote:
> On Friday, 14 April 2023 at 20:10:49 UTC+1, Janis Papanagnou wrote:
>> The Eyes are out of my reach, unfortunately, due to the permanent
>> alignment abuse record. (I wouldn't want that huge permanent luck
>> recovery penalty when killing the quest leader.)
>
> If you have "gravely abused your alignment", then yes, you'd need to
> kill your quest leader to win the game.

I think that's it, meanwhile - I ate two giants, at least, in
addition to the already reported (three) deeds...

> If you have only "severely abused your alignment" then you have a
> good chance of being allowed to keep the quest artifact.

Another poster poster gave a hint that even with a low (lower)
value the odds are not guaranteeing it (are not that good), so
I abstained from following a conduct that quickly spoiled the
whole game to a severe degree from the beginning after having
violated it by accident.

> You can leave the quest branch with the Eyes without talking to the
> quest leader and worry about them later (the Bell won't work for the
> invocation until they've been dealt with)

You mean to use it during Gehennom exploration and give it back
to the quest leader just before the invocation rite? - Well,
that could be an option; to have it at least part time of the
game...

....but would it be worth the risk of doing that deadly quest?
(I fear the possibility of Kaen zapping the boulder fort open.)

And in Nethack or Slashem I rarely needed to rely on it. It's
fine to explore Gehennom faster, but (at least in those other
variants) I had MR mostly from dragon scales, and a magic lamp,
scrolls of magic mapping, and a pick-axe, were good enough for
fast exploration.

> - flying makes exploring Gehonnom much more fun!

Yeah, flying is my preferred way of late game traveling because
of the pool-casting spell-casters. The instant death-experience
is otherwise not fun (which I learned in Slashem). And all that
lava in the recent variants' Gehennom dungeon layouts makes it
yet more precious.

> Even the permanent luck penalty isn't so bad - just maximise luck
> before starting the ascension run. I've never noticed an issue.

I have no experience how it works out. Practically I travel and
handle the more difficult games (literally) at the bleeding edge,
so any bias in luck may be fatal. With additional restrictions,
like the armor (thus AC) restriction that tortles have I am very
reluctant to challenge my luck here.

>> Where did you get that tame demon from? (I'm not yet in Gehennom.)
>
> I had the "Orc Temple" version of Mines' End, which always has a
> figurine of a Balrog.

Ah, okay. I'd need to find some other means. - Maybe conflict
would turn the E and X against the quest nemesis? (Don't know.)

Now I first focus on the Ice Queen level. I downloaded from a
current Hardfought game today a ttyrec to see what to expect
there in practice; I've seen the player used a lot of attack
magic. And I must understand what it means when the Wiki entry
speaks about "defeating" but not killing these dogs that guard
the Ice Queen.[*]

Janis

[*] "Cannot be killed, but can be defeated and forced to submit"

[evilhack] Ice Queen quest (was Re: Wishing suggestions?)

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From: janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com (Janis Papanagnou)
Newsgroups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack
Subject: [evilhack] Ice Queen quest (was Re: Wishing suggestions?)
Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2023 16:21:36 +0200
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 by: Janis Papanagnou - Sat, 15 Apr 2023 14:21 UTC

On 15.04.2023 14:41, Janis Papanagnou wrote:
>
> Now I first focus on the Ice Queen level. I downloaded from a
> current Hardfought game today a ttyrec to see what to expect
> there in practice; I've seen the player used a lot of attack
> magic. And I must understand what it means when the Wiki entry
> speaks about "defeating" but not killing these dogs that guard
> the Ice Queen.

That player turned out to be a good spell-caster and was able
to cast fireballs that did _a lot_ of damage with every cast
to the targeted square and around; a very supporting spell for
the Ice quest's inhabitants. (But I'm no Wizard and haven't
the Eye of Aethiopica for fast PW restoration.) But probably
feasible. (I still have some concerns about the dragons there
and the 'Z' special monsters and some others.) The player did
that quest, but in the attempt to free Pegasus, he seems to
have hit him with acid. (The player tried to get access to
Pegasus' room by destroying the iron bars with acid potions.
Would that work? - That was also my idea to try [in Slashem]
but failed in that variant. - How else can Pegasus be freed?
I've seen in another game that striking would destroy such
iron bars, if I'm not mistaken?) Anyway; Pegasus got angry,
the pacified Ice queen got angry, and (IIRC) also her dogs.
So he left the place through a portal opened with the Eye. -
What would the (announced) prize for freeing Pegasus be?

Janis

Re: [evilhack] Ice Queen quest (was Re: Wishing suggestions?)

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Subject: Re: [evilhack] Ice Queen quest (was Re: Wishing suggestions?)
From: peterg17986@gmail.com (G. Raznop)
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 by: G. Raznop - Sat, 15 Apr 2023 17:20 UTC

On Saturday, 15 April 2023 at 15:24:10 UTC+1, Janis Papanagnou wrote:

> That player turned out to be a good spell-caster and was able
> to cast fireballs that did _a lot_ of damage with every cast
> to the targeted square and around;

This was the fireball spell, cast at a 'skilled' level - unfortunately monks can't get 'skilled' in attack magic. But there is another way to get a similar effect.

> that quest, but in the attempt to free Pegasus, he seems to
> have hit him with acid. (The player tried to get access to
> Pegasus' room by destroying the iron bars with acid potions.
> Would that work?

Wielding a potion of acid and then fighting ('F') in the direction of the bars will dissolve the bars. Pegasus can be tamed like a normal horse.

> What would the (announced) prize for freeing Pegasus be?

The prize is the Bag of the Hesperides.
Hope this helps. Good luck!

G.

Re: [evilhack] Ice Queen quest (was Re: Wishing suggestions?)

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From: janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com (Janis Papanagnou)
Newsgroups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack
Subject: Re: [evilhack] Ice Queen quest (was Re: Wishing suggestions?)
Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2023 19:59:35 +0200
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 by: Janis Papanagnou - Sat, 15 Apr 2023 17:59 UTC

On 15.04.2023 19:20, G. Raznop wrote:
> On Saturday, 15 April 2023 at 15:24:10 UTC+1, Janis Papanagnou
> wrote:
>
>> That player turned out to be a good spell-caster and was able to
>> cast fireballs that did _a lot_ of damage with every cast to the
>> targeted square and around;
>
> This was the fireball spell, cast at a 'skilled' level -
> unfortunately monks can't get 'skilled' in attack magic.

(I'm currently training to get at least to Basic.)

> But there is another way to get a similar effect.

Mind to spoil me, please?

What comes to my mind is just the ordinary zap pf a wand of fire,
a fire horn, and a burning potion of oil cocktail. But these are
rare resources. Scrolls of fire are also [in other variants] not
that effective. And grenades [Slashem] seem to not be existing?

> Wielding a potion of acid and then fighting ('F') in the direction of
> the bars will dissolve the bars. Pegasus can be tamed like a normal
> horse.

Thanks!

>> What would the (announced) prize for freeing Pegasus be?
>
> The prize is the Bag of the Hesperides. Hope this helps. Good luck!

Ah, of course; that was the whole point of doing that quest. :-)

Janis

Re: [evilhack] Ice Queen quest (was Re: Wishing suggestions?)

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Newsgroups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack
Subject: Re: [evilhack] Ice Queen quest (was Re: Wishing suggestions?)
Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2023 09:41:27 +0200
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 by: Janis Papanagnou - Sun, 16 Apr 2023 07:41 UTC

> On 15.04.2023 14:41, Janis Papanagnou wrote:
>>
>> Now I first focus on the Ice Queen level. [...]

Entered the Ice Queen quest...
First surprise was ...
I threw my +6 spears at a monster and noticed that some of the spears
were missing; I walked across that "unlit" area to pick them up, but
I couldn't find them.
....the chasm. I'm glad that before entering the quest a wish went for
the amulet of flying that I immediately put on to replace my amulet of
magic resistance. So only _by accident_ I survived the first level of
that quest. I mistook the chasm for the typical well known dark areas.
(It seems that I found another instance of instant-death surprise for
the unaware. Or would the game have prevented stepping on that area
without flying/levitation? - Certainly I'm not inclined to try that.)
The second surprise was that my special artifact weapon insta-killed
that Abominable Snowman - yes I weakened it before with spears but
he still had a lot of HPs -, and also (one of) the woolly mammoth(s).
Since these foes were marked with difficulty level 5 I didn't expect
that short work.
Meanwhile reached the third quest level... - very populated - enough
room for deaths...

Janis

Re: [evilhack] Ice Queen quest

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From: janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com (Janis Papanagnou)
Newsgroups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack
Subject: Re: [evilhack] Ice Queen quest
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 by: Janis Papanagnou - Sun, 16 Apr 2023 14:10 UTC

On 16.04.2023 09:41, Janis Papanagnou wrote:
>> On 15.04.2023 14:41, Janis Papanagnou wrote:
>>> Now I first focus on the Ice Queen level. [...]
> Entered the Ice Queen quest... First surprise was ... [...]

Finished that quest. - Got the Bag, got the tame Pegasus.
Next surprise - still at Ice Queen quest level 3 - was that monsters
use wands of polymorph against player. A zap at my Monk, he changes
form and his armor dropped to the floor. Another zap at him polymorphed
his three pieces of highly enchanted magical armor to something mundane
(that, as a turtle, my Monk cannot even wear). - Not really fun to
restart the game, all the preparation effort, anew ("Do not pass Go").
(Or was it just a hint from the RNG-god; an excellent moment to #quit?)
Next step; continuing almost naked back to the Monk's level 1 stash.

Janis

Re: [evilhack] Wishing suggestions?

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From: janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com (Janis Papanagnou)
Newsgroups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack
Subject: Re: [evilhack] Wishing suggestions?
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2023 14:45:56 +0200
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 by: Janis Papanagnou - Wed, 19 Apr 2023 12:45 UTC

On 14.04.2023 15:10, Mobi Leuser wrote:
>
> Maybe this recent tortle monk ascension can give you some more ideas?
> https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/G/Graznop/evilhack/dumplog/1680643929.evil.txt
> Notice that Gauntlets of Purity and Ashmar can't be wished for, they need to be forged.

I've read that the Gauntlets of Purity cannot be worn with abused
alignment, so they are out of reach. The Ashmar looks quite fine,
but as a tortle I've already hungerless regeneration, so not all
advantages actually improve my tortle. I'd probably also need the
shield slot for reflection (but don't recall my gear at the moment
and don't recall whether I have the artifacts necessary to forge).

Janis

Re: [evilhack] Wishing suggestions?

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Subject: Re: [evilhack] Wishing suggestions?
From: peterg17986@gmail.com (G. Raznop)
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 by: G. Raznop - Wed, 19 Apr 2023 16:43 UTC

On Wednesday, 19 April 2023 at 13:46:01 UTC+1, Janis Papanagnou wrote:
> I've read that the Gauntlets of Purity cannot be worn with abused
> alignment, so they are out of reach.
You need to be piously aligned to wear the Gaunlets of Purity - but this is your normal alignment record (as shown by a stethoscope to self), not the permanent one. Further down in the dumplog you'll see "You have gravely abused your alignment" - this isn't a problem.
>The Ashmar looks quite fine,
> but as a tortle I've already hungerless regeneration, so not all
> advantages actually improve my tortle. I'd probably also need the
> shield slot for reflection (but don't recall my gear at the moment
> and don't recall whether I have the artifacts necessary to forge).
Ashmar also provides acid resistance and half physical damage. I was wearing it at the time of ascension for the Plane of Air, and never bothered to take it off afterwards.
By the way, congratulations on defeating the Ice Queen. Also being polymorphed and then having your equipment polymorphed is one of the worst things the game can throw at you - well done for pushing on!
G.

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Subject: Re: [evilhack] Wishing suggestions?
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 by: Janis Papanagnou - Wed, 19 Apr 2023 18:40 UTC

On 19.04.2023 18:43, G. Raznop wrote:
> On Wednesday, 19 April 2023 at 13:46:01 UTC+1, Janis Papanagnou
> wrote:
>> I've read that the Gauntlets of Purity cannot be worn with abused
>> alignment, so they are out of reach.

> You need to be piously aligned to wear the Gaunlets of Purity - but
> this is your normal alignment record (as shown by a stethoscope to
> self), not the permanent one. [...]

Ah, okay. (But there's still the [Lawful] Grayswandir I'd need.)

> Ashmar also provides acid resistance and half physical damage. I was
> wearing it at the time of ascension for the Plane of Air, and never
> bothered to take it off afterwards.

Yeah, I see its advantages. It's only the fewer slots I have that
makes me hesitate where I then should get reflection from.

Another thing is that I lost my helm of speed; tortles are slow,
and they cannot wear boots. - I do have a strong bias for speed
and ponder where to best get that from now.

And magic resistance; swapping the amulet of MR (I think I even
wished for that) with flying (or reflection, if I'd get it) is
also an ambiguous decision.

> By the way, congratulations on defeating the Ice Queen.

Thanks.

> Also being polymorphed and then having your
> equipment polymorphed is one of the worst things the game can throw
> at you - [...]

Well, my experiences thus far make me believe that there's yet
much worse to expect around the next (and then again after the
next) corner. But "_one_ of the worst" also doesn't soothe me. ;-)

(At the moment my game is paused; my Monk is on Quest level 4,
at the downstairs.)

Janis

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Subject: Re: [evilhack] Wishing suggestions?
From: peterg17986@gmail.com (G. Raznop)
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 by: G. Raznop - Wed, 19 Apr 2023 20:05 UTC

On Wednesday, 19 April 2023 at 19:40:08 UTC+1, Janis Papanagnou wrote:

> Ah, okay. (But there's still the [Lawful] Grayswandir I'd need.)
Using a Helm of Opposite Alignment (the right one of course, your character is neutral) and sacrificing for Grayswandir would work, though possibly a bit of a grind. Or a wish - the Gauntlets of Purity's power regeneration and giant strength is probably worth it.

>... where I then should get reflection from.
Both Dragonbane (which I think you already have?) and the Gauntlets of Purity both provide reflection.

> Another thing is that I lost my helm of speed; tortles are slow,
> and they cannot wear boots. - I do have a strong bias for speed
> and ponder where to best get that from now.
I too have a strong bias for speed. Luckily the player monsters are usually well equipped, so there is a good chance to find another helm of speed.

> Well, my experiences thus far make me believe that there's yet
> much worse to expect around the next (and then again after the
> next) corner. But "_one_ of the worst" also doesn't soothe me. ;-)
What doesn't kill you makes you stronger :-)

G.

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From: janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com (Janis Papanagnou)
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Subject: Re: [evilhack] Wishing suggestions?
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 by: Janis Papanagnou - Thu, 20 Apr 2023 02:23 UTC

On 19.04.2023 22:05, G. Raznop wrote:
> On Wednesday, 19 April 2023 at 19:40:08 UTC+1, Janis Papanagnou
> wrote:
>
>> Ah, okay. (But there's still the [Lawful] Grayswandir I'd need.)

> Using a Helm of Opposite Alignment (the right one of course, your
> character is neutral) and sacrificing for Grayswandir would work,

Okay, since I already lost my divine protection (by a mishap),
that might be feasible (but it also has its cost at the moment,
a wish, since I didn't find one until now).

> though possibly a bit of a grind. Or a wish - the Gauntlets of
> Purity's power regeneration and giant strength is probably worth it.

That would have to be very well tuned since the few armor options
turtles have will have impact on spell casting (ability), thus my
"daily-use" spell power demands are not that high. The strength
factor I also consider not a primary factor since as a turtle I
already have higher strength and the Ice Queen's artifact bag
greatly extends carrying capacity. Only the option of picking up
and carrying boulders would be a distinct feature, but one I not
(not yet, to be honest) value that high.

>
>> Well, my experiences thus far make me believe that there's yet much
>> worse to expect around the next (and then again after the next)
>> corner. But "_one_ of the worst" also doesn't soothe me. ;-)

> What doesn't kill you makes you stronger :-)

"Famous last words!" before sending folks to war and death. :-)

Janis

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Subject: Re: [evilhack] Wishing suggestions?
From: peterg17986@gmail.com (G. Raznop)
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 by: G. Raznop - Thu, 20 Apr 2023 10:58 UTC

On Thursday, 20 April 2023 at 03:23:13 UTC+1, Janis Papanagnou wrote:
> On 19.04.2023 22:05, G. Raznop wrote:
> > On Wednesday, 19 April 2023 at 19:40:08 UTC+1, Janis Papanagnou

> > though possibly a bit of a grind. Or a wish - the Gauntlets of
> > Purity's power regeneration and giant strength is probably worth it.
> That would have to be very well tuned since the few armor options
> turtles have will have impact on spell casting (ability), thus my
> "daily-use" spell power demands are not that high. The strength
> factor I also consider not a primary factor since as a turtle I
> already have higher strength and the Ice Queen's artifact bag
> greatly extends carrying capacity. Only the option of picking up
> and carrying boulders would be a distinct feature, but one I not
> (not yet, to be honest) value that high.
Helms of speed are an exception to the usual objects material rules - they can be made out of leather, cloth or dragonhide, which don't interfere with spellcasting.
"Giant strength" gives you a strength of 25, but (unfortunately) does not allow you to pick up boulders - only actual giants can do that.
Gauntlets of Purity are also made of silver for extra silver damage. They don't interfere with spellcasting.

G.

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Subject: Re: [evilhack] Wishing suggestions?
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 by: Janis Papanagnou - Thu, 20 Apr 2023 16:36 UTC

On 19.04.2023 18:43, G. Raznop wrote:
> On Wednesday, 19 April 2023 at 13:46:01 UTC+1, Janis Papanagnou
> wrote:

>> The Ashmar looks quite fine, but as a tortle I've already
>> hungerless regeneration, so not all advantages actually improve my
>> tortle. I'd probably also need the shield slot for reflection (but
>> don't recall my gear at the moment and don't recall whether I have
>> the artifacts necessary to forge).

> Ashmar also provides acid resistance and half physical damage. I was
> wearing it at the time of ascension for the Plane of Air, and never
> bothered to take it off afterwards.

Okay, I had the two artifacts necessary for the Ashmar in my stash,
and so I forged it. Two surprises; it was of enchantment -1, and it
blasted me when I put it on. (The NH-Wiki says it's a 'non-aligned'
artifact, that's why I'm a bit surprised - or is it once again the
alignment record that makes it blast me?)

Two blessed enchantment scrolls made the Ashmar +2 now, and it seems
I can stash my two shields (a blessed +4 steel shield of light, and
an uncursed +0 gold shield of reflection named Perseus'); especially
the golden shield is very heavy (66), and the shield of light is as
heavy as the Ashmar (37). (I'm carrying too much, as usual.)

Janis

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Subject: Re: [evilhack] Wishing suggestions?
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 by: Mobi Leuser - Fri, 21 Apr 2023 09:22 UTC

> Okay, I had the two artifacts necessary for the Ashmar in my stash,
> and so I forged it. Two surprises; it was of enchantment -1, and it
> blasted me when I put it on. (The NH-Wiki says it's a 'non-aligned'
> artifact, that's why I'm a bit surprised - or is it once again the
> alignment record that makes it blast me?)

I see in the commit that it's aligned to dwarves, that very likely explains the blast (same happens with Dramborleg).
The -1 enchantment sounds like a bug to me... normally the result of forging takes the enchantment of the second item.

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Subject: Re: [evilhack] Wishing suggestions?
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 by: Janis Papanagnou - Fri, 21 Apr 2023 10:18 UTC

On 21.04.2023 11:22, Mobi Leuser wrote:
>> Okay, I had the two artifacts necessary for the Ashmar in my stash,
>> and so I forged it. Two surprises; it was of enchantment -1, [...]
>
> The -1 enchantment sounds like a bug to me... normally the result of
> forging takes the enchantment of the second item.

I don't know whether the second artifact had a negative enchantment,
both artifacts had been unidentified... - but the second one in the
forge process was a gift from my deity so I'd suppose it was fine?

Got the Ogreshmasher from a deathdrop at the Sokoban zoo.

Got the Trollsbane from a sacrifice at my lucky dlvl:1 altar.

Forging: "You place the heavy war hammer named Ogresmasher,
then the morning star named Trollsbane inside the forge.
Raising your heavy war hammer named Mjollnir, you begin to
forge the artifacts together...
You have successfully forged a mithril dwarvish roundshield
named Ashmar (37 aum)."

Janis

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Subject: Re: [evilhack] Wishing suggestions?
From: nethackmobileuser@gmail.com (Mobi Leuser)
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 by: Mobi Leuser - Fri, 21 Apr 2023 12:41 UTC

On Friday, 21 April 2023 at 12:18:44 UTC+2, Janis Papanagnou wrote:
> On 21.04.2023 11:22, Mobi Leuser wrote:
> >> Okay, I had the two artifacts necessary for the Ashmar in my stash,
> >> and so I forged it. Two surprises; it was of enchantment -1, [...]
> >
> > The -1 enchantment sounds like a bug to me... normally the result of
> > forging takes the enchantment of the second item.
> I don't know whether the second artifact had a negative enchantment,
> both artifacts had been unidentified... - but the second one in the
> forge process was a gift from my deity so I'd suppose it was fine?
>
> Got the Ogreshmasher from a deathdrop at the Sokoban zoo.
>
> Got the Trollsbane from a sacrifice at my lucky dlvl:1 altar.
>
> Forging: "You place the heavy war hammer named Ogresmasher,
> then the morning star named Trollsbane inside the forge.
> Raising your heavy war hammer named Mjollnir, you begin to
> forge the artifacts together...
> You have successfully forged a mithril dwarvish roundshield
> named Ashmar (37 aum)."
>
> Janis

I just heard it's actually a bug that's fixed in an upcoming version.

Re: [evilhack] Wishing suggestions?

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Subject: Re: [evilhack] Wishing suggestions?
From: nethackmobileuser@gmail.com (Mobi Leuser)
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 by: Mobi Leuser - Sun, 23 Apr 2023 19:32 UTC

On Sunday, 23 April 2023 at 16:01:49 UTC+2, Janis Papanagnou wrote:
> On 14.04.2023 14:58, Janis Papanagnou wrote:
> > [...]
>
> I've seen a wish-tracker at the EU Hardfought server. It contains
> the text as typed by the player, it seems. I edited, structured,
> sorted, and summarized the entries; you can find it below...
>
> Quite some questions arise, but one I'd like to ask; why are there
> so many wishes for "dragon scale mail"? (I thought I've read that
> you won't ever get one by wishing, but you'll get only the scales.)
>
> Janis
>

Nice overview! The wishes for dragon scale mail are probably from older versions when they still existed.
Not sure if it gets logged if a new player who doesn't know the new rules wishes for them.

Re: [evilhack] Wishing suggestions?

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From: janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com (Janis Papanagnou)
Newsgroups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack
Subject: Re: [evilhack] Wishing suggestions?
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2023 16:01:45 +0200
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 by: Janis Papanagnou - Sun, 23 Apr 2023 14:01 UTC

On 14.04.2023 14:58, Janis Papanagnou wrote:
> [...]

I've seen a wish-tracker at the EU Hardfought server. It contains
the text as typed by the player, it seems. I edited, structured,
sorted, and summarized the entries; you can find it below...

Quite some questions arise, but one I'd like to ask; why are there
so many wishes for "dragon scale mail"? (I thought I've read that
you won't ever get one by wishing, but you'll get only the scales.)

Janis

Summarized from various amounts/enchantments/BUC-states/materials
(based on data from 2023-04-21):

230x Tools
167x magic marker
20x magic lamp
13x bag of holding
10x magic harp
5x figurine
3x The Platinum Yendorian Express Card
3x magic whistle
2x drum of earthquake
2x unicorn horn
1x horn of plenty
1x saddle
1x tinning kit
1x tin opener
1x The Iron Ball Of Liberation

189x Magical Stuff (amulets, rings, spellbooks, wands, scrolls, potions)

62x Amulets
19x amulet of magical breathing
17x amulet of flying
16x The Eye of the Aethiopica
12x amulet of magic resistance
3x amulet of reflection
1x amulet of unchanging

49x Rings
21x ring of free action
9x The Ring of P'hul
8x ring of teleport control
5x ring of slow digestion
3x ring of levitation
2x ring of polymorph control
1x ring of conflict

33x Spellbooks
7 spellbook of acid blast
5 spellbook of finger of death
4 spellbook of polymorph
4 spellbook of identify
3 spellbook of cure sickness
2 spellbook of repair armor
2 spellbook of magic missile
2 spellbook of magic mapping
2 spellbook of create monster
1 spellbook of poison blast
1 spellbook of jumping

20x Wands
14x wand of death
2x wand of probing
2x wand of undead turning
1x wand of cold
1x wand of cancellation

15x Scrolls
10x scrolls of charging
5x scrolls of genocide

10x Potions
7x potions of gain level
1x potions of holy water
1x potions of water
1x potions of full healing

618x Armor

126x Body armor
76x gray dragon scale mail
22x silver dragon scale mail
12x gold dragon scale mail
8x yellow dragon scale mail
5x large splint mail
1x black dragon scale mail
1x blue dragon scale mail
1x crystal plate mail

120x Gauntlets
57x gauntlets of power
39x The Dragonbane
17x gauntlets of protection
5x gauntlets of dexterity
1x silver riding gloves
1x silver gauntlets

110x Shirts
65x T-shirt
8x T-shirt of drain resistance
20x hawaiian shirt
9x hawaiian shirt of decay
2x hawaiian shirt of warning
1x hawaiian shirt of ESP
2x striped shirt
3x striped shirt of telepathy

99x Helmets
38x helm of speed
31x elven helm
19x fedora
5x helm of opposite alignment
2x cornuthaum
2x toque
1x helm of brilliance
1x hat

81x Boots
56x speed boots
17x jumping boots
6x water walking boots
1x jumping boots
1x high boots

66x Cloaks
50x cloak of magic resistance
8x cloak of protection
4x robe
2x alchemy smock
1x oilskin cloak
1x leather cloak

16x Shields
11x shield of reflection
2x small shield
1x small shield of decay
1x large shield
1x elven shield

67x Weapons

22x Artifact Weapons
7x The Magicbane
5x The Frost Brand
3x The Grayswandir
3x The Ogresmasher
1x The Angelslayer
1x The Secespita
1x The Tsurugi of Muramasa
1x The Staff of Aesculapius

40x Mundane Melee Weapons
13x tsurugi
9x aklys
4x trident
1x trident of excellence
3x lance
2x triple-headed flail
2x elven short sword
1x halberd
1x elven broadsword
1x mattock
1x dwarvish short sword
1x katana
1x crysknife

5x Missile Weapons
2x boomerang
2x silver dart
1x shuriken

Other items
1x boulder

Unknown entities
4x atlatl
2x The Sword of Bheleu

Re: [evilhack] Wishing suggestions?

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Subject: Re: [evilhack] Wishing suggestions?
From: loggersviii@gmail.com (Loggers VIII)
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 by: Loggers VIII - Mon, 24 Apr 2023 03:20 UTC

> Unknown entities
> 4x atlatl
> 2x The Sword of Bheleu

An atlatl is the base item for the new archaeologist quest artifact, Xiuhcoatl. It's basically just a stronger spear. You can't obtain it in any way other than wishing or bones, similar to vanilla's stormbringer, so I guess someone just wished for one for the hell of it.
The Sword of Bheleu was an artifact that was planned to be placed into a side branch, but was repurposed into the Sword of Kas. It was technically in the game, so maybe you could wish for it? I'm not sure, I started playing evilhack long after its original version was repurposed.

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