Some people keep a stash beyond what they have in their inventory and annotate the level to find it again.

Is this only if the bag of holding isn't found yet, or does stashing still
take place with that artifact?

Praetor Mandrake <eighty.yen.no@gmail.com> writes:

> Some people keep a stash beyond what they have in their inventory and
> annotate the level to find it again.
> Is this only if the bag of holding isn't found yet, or does stashing still
> take place with that artifact?

A bag of holding doesn't eliminate the weight of its contents, it only
reduces it to half (uncursed) or 1/4 (blessed), so you may still get
burdened if you carry lots of stuff in the bag.

--
Jukka Lahtinen

On Saturday, June 25, 2022 at 5:10:52 PM UTC-5, Jukka Lahtinen wrote:
> Praetor Mandrake <eighty...@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > Some people keep a stash beyond what they have in their inventory and
> > annotate the level to find it again.
> > Is this only if the bag of holding isn't found yet, or does stashing still
> > take place with that artifact?
> A bag of holding doesn't eliminate the weight of its contents, it only
> reduces it to half (uncursed) or 1/4 (blessed), so you may still get
> burdened if you carry lots of stuff in the bag.
>
> --
> Jukka Lahtinen

I wasn't very clear with my question (English isn't exactly my first language),
but I found a page on the nethack wiki what I was looking for:

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Stash#Location

On 25.06.2022 23:00, Praetor Mandrake wrote:
> Some people keep a stash beyond what they have in their inventory and annotate the level to find it again.
>
> Is this only if the bag of holding isn't found yet, or does stashing still
> take place with that artifact?

I stash items early game so that they don't get destroyed while
carrying them around; mainly unidentified items and mainly scrolls,
potions, spell-books. Locations for stashes are typically adjacent
to the downstairs, so that when leaving the level - exploring is
done top-down - the stashes don't get unattended and affected by
strolling monsters. The dungeon level 1 stash will finally contain
all the items I want to consider for taking to the planes, while
initially I visit these items once I have means to identify them.
If I find bags or chests I deposit the items in such a container
(besides the stairs) to keep them still safer. For carrying capacity
considerations I also makes food-stashes deeper down in the dungeon,
also besides the downstairs or (on a portal accessed branch) besides
the portal, here not at the main dungeon but on that special level.
Not sure about Elbereth in NH-36x+ but in NH-343 and Slashem I also
often secure that spot with an engraving.

Janis

On Saturday, June 25, 2022 at 11:39:04 PM UTC-5, Janis wrote:
> On 25.06.2022 23:00, Praetor Mandrake wrote:
> > Some people keep a stash beyond what they have in their inventory and annotate the level to find it again.
> >
> > Is this only if the bag of holding isn't found yet, or does stashing still
> > take place with that artifact?
> I stash items early game so that they don't get destroyed while
> carrying them around; mainly unidentified items and mainly scrolls,
> potions, spell-books. Locations for stashes are typically adjacent
> to the downstairs, so that when leaving the level - exploring is
> done top-down - the stashes don't get unattended and affected by
> strolling monsters. The dungeon level 1 stash will finally contain
> all the items I want to consider for taking to the planes, while
> initially I visit these items once I have means to identify them.
> If I find bags or chests I deposit the items in such a container
> (besides the stairs) to keep them still safer. For carrying capacity
> considerations I also makes food-stashes deeper down in the dungeon,
> also besides the downstairs or (on a portal accessed branch) besides
> the portal, here not at the main dungeon but on that special level.
> Not sure about Elbereth in NH-36x+ but in NH-343 and Slashem I also
> often secure that spot with an engraving.
>
> Janis

The main problem I am having is finding my stash again. It's like a
squirrel with acorns. I could go searching for it, but that takes time
and food energy. Paper notes don't seem to work, because I usually have
10 games going at once. I am looking for a formula. Like always in
Minetown etcetera.

On Sun, 26 Jun 2022 14:59:32 -0700 (PDT), Praetor Mandrake wrote:

> The main problem I am having is finding my stash again. It's like a
> squirrel with acorns. I could go searching for it, but that takes time
> and food energy. Paper notes don't seem to work, because I usually have
> 10 games going at once. I am looking for a formula. Like always in
> Minetown etcetera.

Use #annotate and #overview:
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Annotate
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Overview

And leave the items in containers (maybe on top of ? of scare monster
or Elbereth) near stairs, as Janis already suggested. For additional
protection use one-field corridor dead-ends with locked door before it.

I tend to assemble stuff for the ascension run on (or near) level 1
and in the altar room of the Valley of the Dead. Everything else can
be stored anywhere. - Just as opportunity and/or necessity occur.

Piles from surplus food are dropped every couple of levels. For the
planes I usually save every lembas encountered during the game. They,
therefore, go inside the ascension kit stashes. (A few are kept inside
the BoH for emergencies, though.)

Apart from this, I often assemble items in containers anywhere on any
level, like weapons, scrolls (not required for use or blanking), potions
(not required for use, diluting or alchemy), and wands. These are items
I will not (or cannot) sell, but also do not want monsters to have.
Because I do not need these items, myself, remembering the position of
the container doesn't matter.

BeAr
--
===========================================================================
= What do you mean with: "Perfection is always an illusion"? =
===============================================================--(Oops!)===

On 26.06.2022 23:59, Praetor Mandrake wrote:
>
> The main problem I am having is finding my stash again. It's like a
> squirrel with acorns. I could go searching for it, but that takes time
> and food energy. Paper notes don't seem to work, because I usually have
> 10 games going at once. I am looking for a formula. Like always in
> Minetown etcetera.

For in-game notes I individually name some persistent items.
For stashes that could be something like e.g.

f - a towel named stash@1,Min1,Sok,12,19,21
l - a magic lamp named altar@12Neu,20Law

The annotate function in the contemporary releases might also
support you here (but I can't tell since I don't know details).

Janis

On Monday, June 27, 2022 at 12:49:10 AM UTC-5, Janis wrote:
> On 26.06.2022 23:59, Praetor Mandrake wrote:
> >
> > The main problem I am having is finding my stash again. It's like a
> > squirrel with acorns. I could go searching for it, but that takes time
> > and food energy. Paper notes don't seem to work, because I usually have
> > 10 games going at once. I am looking for a formula. Like always in
> > Minetown etcetera.
> For in-game notes I individually name some persistent items.
> For stashes that could be something like e.g.
>
> f - a towel named stash@1,Min1,Sok,12,19,21
> l - a magic lamp named altar@12Neu,20Law
>
> The annotate function in the contemporary releases might also
> support you here (but I can't tell since I don't know details).
>
> Janis

Yes I checked and the #annotate message shows up in #overview, which
is always available. #overview skips levels that have no features.

I cut it down to two characters at a time. With ten, a guy will show up
on my play list that I don't know if he/she's going up or down. The new
moon was good practice for regular play. No way is a +4 chain mail
going to show up in the former, unless it's in your dywypi list.

On Saturday, July 2, 2022 at 2:23:44 PM UTC-7, eighty...@gmail.com wrote:
> [...] #overview skips levels that have no features.

Having an annotation, either an automatically generated one
for some of the special levels or known branch points, or a
player-supplied one, or both, counts as having a feature.

If you were to annotate every level, every level would be listed
in #overview even when having no other features of interest.
Viewing #overview during end-of-game disclosure shows every
level visited even when there is no annotation or other feature.

The exception is if you make it into the endgame. The levels
for the regular dungeon and its branches are discarded and
their annotations are suppressed (or possibly discarded too,
I don't recall) and only the portion of the endgame you've
visited gets listed. So if your overview has any notes that
you'd like to carry over from the dungeon to the planes, you
need to remember them as you go up the stairs and re-enter
them on the Plane of Earth. Since no game time elapses when
you use #annotate, the fact that you're about to encounter the
Wizard won't interfere with that.

I always leave chests next to downstairs and upstairs for stashing. Just go back to levels that have a chest next to the upstairs. it's easy.

Another nice place is placing a chest 4 squares from an altar. Having a stash next to an altar is quite helpful. If there's a fountain or water tile can be created on the level that's even better.

You can also #name things (which you already know) in your inventory to "take notes". You can name your Unicorn horn "level 4" to remind you of a unicorn on level 4.

You can even leave open stashes (without a chest) directly next to stairs. Don't do this with potions or wands or scrolls, but with things like spellbooks and tools (which monsters don't typically use) it's a very easy way to unburden yourself and remember where stuff is.

If you have permanent elbereth (if playing an old version) or use a scroll of scare monster (in the current version)

There are other ways to stash, for instance, you can simply dig out a cavern with a pickaxe and push a boulder in front of it. Very few monsters can bypass that (only giants and xorns, etc. Another way is to dig sideways from a one room closet and lock the door.

If you really, really want security, you can dig a pit next to a stair, drop items in (such as invocation items) and drop a boulder on top, and then a scare monster on top of that.

I'm not to strong on securing my stuff because it just so rare a monster takes it. A locked chest or even an unlocked one next to an altar or stair has served me well for many ascensions.

On 05.07.2022 05:55, Chris Bowers wrote:
>
> Another nice place is placing a chest 4 squares from an altar.

For me it's adjacent to an altar; here mainly to deposit all the
[for the player] uninteresting death drops. - Why 4 squares?

> Having
> a stash next to an altar is quite helpful. If there's a fountain or
> water tile can be created on the level that's even better.

Can you elaborate what that water is for? (Assuming you don't
mean as a source of snakes and nymphs for sacrificing purposes).

>
> If you really, really want security, you can dig a pit next to a
> stair, drop items in (such as invocation items) and drop a boulder on
> top, and then a scare monster on top of that.

I seem to recall that (decades ago) I've seen code in the source
that organic items that rot may vanish if buried. (Can someone
confirm that or correct me, please.) Would scrolls be affected?

>
> I'm not to strong on securing my stuff because it just so rare a
> monster takes it. A locked chest or even an unlocked one next to an
> altar or stair has served me well for many ascensions.

For me it had always been sufficient. To prevent from monsters
eating the container a (semi-)permanent Elbereth was helpful (in
NH-343 and Slashem).

Janis

On Tuesday, July 5, 2022 at 2:44:20 AM UTC-4, Janis wrote:
> On 05.07.2022 05:55, Chris Bowers wrote:
> >
> > Another nice place is placing a chest 4 squares from an altar.
> For me it's adjacent to an altar; here mainly to deposit all the
> [for the player] uninteresting death drops. - Why 4 squares?
> > Having
> > a stash next to an altar is quite helpful. If there's a fountain or
> > water tile can be created on the level that's even better.
> Can you elaborate what that water is for? (Assuming you don't
> mean as a source of snakes and nymphs for sacrificing purposes).
> >
> > If you really, really want security, you can dig a pit next to a
> > stair, drop items in (such as invocation items) and drop a boulder on
> > top, and then a scare monster on top of that.
> I seem to recall that (decades ago) I've seen code in the source
> that organic items that rot may vanish if buried. (Can someone
> confirm that or correct me, please.) Would scrolls be affected?
> >
> > I'm not to strong on securing my stuff because it just so rare a
> > monster takes it. A locked chest or even an unlocked one next to an
> > altar or stair has served me well for many ascensions.
> For me it had always been sufficient. To prevent from monsters
> eating the container a (semi-)permanent Elbereth was helpful (in
> NH-343 and Slashem).
>
> Janis

Water for blanking potions and scrolls and to make holy water.

Obviously if you have a chest, an altar and a water source all on the same level, you can instantly do a lot of conversion stuff with your stash. An altar and water source aren't always on the same level, but you should note the nearest water source you can. If you have a wand of cancellation you don't need the water source.

If there's stuff on a level and you want to unburden yourself, just do it in a chest and place the chest directly next to the upstairs or downstairs. Walking back through the dungeon you will always know where your stuff is. (Oh, look it's a chest next to a stair. That's where I put stuff.) Empty out all other chests and leave them. That way you know "Chests in previously visited levels are empty, except chests next to stairs. You can do this once or twice or six times. Six stashes should be enough even for those with the lowest Str score.

I put my chest 4 squares away from the altar off direct zap lines so I don't accidentally zap the chest with a wand (such as polymorph or striking), while I'm doing something with the altar. Just having the chest and stash in sort of different "zones" helps me not do anything stupid in either zone.
I also do the same with my polypile. I find a closet on the level then dig a personal cavern for my polypiles, and then lock the door. It isn't airtight security, but it keeps most monsters from messing with your junk piles, and who needs to take everything out, polypile it, and put it back in your stash? Wasted time.

I used to RELIGIOUSLY bury the invocation items and cover them with a boulder and burn elbereth on the spot. But getting stolen from out of a chest is super, super rare. I've only had it happen once in all my playthroughs, when a giant picked up a chest. Then I just killed the giant. It wasn't a big deal.

-Chris

On 06.07.2022 20:20, Chris Bowers wrote:
> If you have a wand of cancellation you don't need the water source.

For the all the non-magical potions (like fruit) that don't clear
it's still useful.

Janis