On 13 Mar 2024 20:59:37 GMT, Leonard Blaisdell
<leoblaisdell@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 2024-03-13, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 13 Mar 2024, Bruce wrote:
>
>>> It's glyphosate. A significant portion of corn grown in the US is
>>> genetically modified to be glyphosate-resistant, so it can be applied
>>> to it liberally.
>
>> Hmm, interesting! I will read up on this.
>
>
>Bruce has glyphosate phobia. I believe it's a genetic defect. Poor guy.
>:(

Leo, on the other hand, loves his herbicides and pesticides. He thinks
it's cool to glow in the dark.

On 3/13/2024 4:59 PM, Leonard Blaisdell wrote:
> On 2024-03-13, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 13 Mar 2024, Bruce wrote:
>
>>> It's glyphosate. A significant portion of corn grown in the US is
>>> genetically modified to be glyphosate-resistant, so it can be applied
>>> to it liberally.
>
>> Hmm, interesting! I will read up on this.
>
>
> Bruce has glyphosate phobia. I believe it's a genetic defect. Poor guy.
> :(

Bruce has all sorts of phobias, most of them involving misinformation
about the US. The poor guy never tasted grilled corn on the cob. How
sad. :(

Jill

On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 17:20:56 -0400, jmcquown <j_mcquown@comcast.net>
wrote:

>On 3/13/2024 4:59 PM, Leonard Blaisdell wrote:
>> On 2024-03-13, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 13 Mar 2024, Bruce wrote:
>>
>>>> It's glyphosate. A significant portion of corn grown in the US is
>>>> genetically modified to be glyphosate-resistant, so it can be applied
>>>> to it liberally.
>>
>>> Hmm, interesting! I will read up on this.
>>
>> Bruce has glyphosate phobia. I believe it's a genetic defect. Poor guy.
>> :(
>
>Bruce has all sorts of phobias, most of them involving misinformation
>about the US. The poor guy never tasted grilled corn on the cob. How
>sad. :(

I probably have tasted it once or twice in a restaurant. Maybe also at
home when we grew a bit of corn ourselves.

But now I'm wondering what the misinformation is. I don't want to be
misinformed about my favourite superpower.

Graham wrote:

> On 2024-03-13 11:47 a.m., cshenk wrote:
>
> >
> > Welcome Daniel! I'll be making us some samwich bread today or
> > tommorow.
> >
> > Likely my old standby.
> >
> > 1 1/3 c buttermilk
> > 1/3 c water
> > 2 TB butter
> > 2 TB sugar
> > 2 ts active dry yeast
> > 2 ts salt
> >
> > Dough mode in bread machine, remove and shape then let rise in a
> > cold oven with light on for 1 hour. Remove and preheat to 400F
> > then bake 17 minutes.
> >
> Ideal for celiacs:-)

LOL!

Leonard Blaisdell wrote:
> On 2024-03-13, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 13 Mar 2024, Bruce wrote:
>
>>> It's glyphosate. A significant portion of corn grown in the US is
>>> genetically modified to be glyphosate-resistant, so it can be applied
>>> to it liberally.
>
>> Hmm, interesting! I will read up on this.
>
>
> Bruce has glyphosate phobia. I believe it's a genetic defect. Poor guy.
> :(
>

More problems than that. Remember when master bruce had his last grand
meltdown and posted hundreds of forged "dave smith" posts?

Maybe he couldn't get his medication.

He's really fucked in the head. But seems rational, if he can get the
psyche drugs delivered to the outback

On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 17:55:37 -0500, Hank Rogers <Hank@nospam.invalid>
wrote:

>Leonard Blaisdell wrote:
>> On 2024-03-13, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 13 Mar 2024, Bruce wrote:
>>
>>>> It's glyphosate. A significant portion of corn grown in the US is
>>>> genetically modified to be glyphosate-resistant, so it can be applied
>>>> to it liberally.
>>
>>> Hmm, interesting! I will read up on this.
>>
>>
>> Bruce has glyphosate phobia. I believe it's a genetic defect. Poor guy.
>> :(
>>
>
>More problems than that. Remember when master bruce had his last grand
>meltdown and posted hundreds of forged "dave smith" posts?

Yes, that was fun. He loved that I was being frogged, so I got him
right back. But all my posts said towards the end that they weren't
really from Dave Smith, honest guy that I am.

>Maybe he couldn't get his medication.
>
>He's really fucked in the head. But seems rational, if he can get the
>psyche drugs delivered to the outback

:)

On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 22:54:06 +0000, "cshenk"
<cshenk@virginia-beach.net> wrote:

>Graham wrote:
>
>> On 2024-03-13 11:47 a.m., cshenk wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > Welcome Daniel! I'll be making us some samwich bread today or
>> > tommorow.
>> >
>> > Likely my old standby.
>> >
>> > 1 1/3 c buttermilk
>> > 1/3 c water
>> > 2 TB butter
>> > 2 TB sugar
>> > 2 ts active dry yeast
>> > 2 ts salt
>> >
>> > Dough mode in bread machine, remove and shape then let rise in a
>> > cold oven with light on for 1 hour. Remove and preheat to 400F
>> > then bake 17 minutes.
>> >
>> Ideal for celiacs:-)
>
>LOL!

But do you understand why Graham said that?

cshenk wrote:
....
> In 2001 that changed. The Navy moved me to Japan. Now they are a
> lovely people, and great cooks, but they like their bread (at least in
> Sasebo) undercooked by our standards. It's literally gummy. The
> alternative was wonderbread or roman meal, baked stateside and shipped
> frozen over a 3-4 month voyage to the commisary and sold frozen. It
> had no extra wrapper.
>
> Nothing like the impetuous of freezer burned bread to make you shift!

that would certainly put me off bread too! yuck!
i don't mind gummy breads though if the flavor is ok,
but on the whole these days bread is not a big part
of my diet. i could probably do ok with good crackers
instead.

though i do really appreciate it when Mom bakes
bread without a bread machine i am not sure i'll get
into baking bread all by hand again. maybe we'll
see...

> Pretty simple when you add it up with some background! Not magic or
> artistry. More like neccessity can be a great spur!

:)

songbird

Bruce wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 17:20:56 -0400, jmcquown <j_mcquown@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
>>On 3/13/2024 4:59 PM, Leonard Blaisdell wrote:
>>> On 2024-03-13, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, 13 Mar 2024, Bruce wrote:
>>>
>>>>> It's glyphosate. A significant portion of corn grown in the US is
>>>>> genetically modified to be glyphosate-resistant, so it can be applied
>>>>> to it liberally.
>>>
>>>> Hmm, interesting! I will read up on this.
>>>
>>> Bruce has glyphosate phobia. I believe it's a genetic defect. Poor guy.
>>> :(
>>
>>Bruce has all sorts of phobias, most of them involving misinformation
>>about the US. The poor guy never tasted grilled corn on the cob. How
>>sad. :(
>
> I probably have tasted it once or twice in a restaurant. Maybe also at
> home when we grew a bit of corn ourselves.
>
> But now I'm wondering what the misinformation is. I don't want to be
> misinformed about my favourite superpower.

sweet corn is usually not sprayed with glyphosate.

songbird

cshenk wrote:
> D wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 13 Mar 2024, Bruce wrote:
>>
>> >On Tue, 12 Mar 2024 21:42:52 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>> >
>> > > On Tue, 12 Mar 2024, cshenk wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > BTW if looking to investigate corn breads, Jill makes some
>> > > > really good ones. I do it too but only randomly.
>> > >
>> > > Yes, I like sour dough too. One of my staples, when I can get
>> > > them, is sour dough crisps. Amazing!
>> > >
>> > > Sadly the availability of corn flour where I live is next to
>> > > none, so I would have to buy it online in another country and
>> > > have it shipped, so never much experimented with that. I do have
>> > > a vision of baking my own tortillas because store bought are
>> > > horrible, but they seem to be heavily dependent on good quality
>> > > flour.
>> >
>> > What if you take wheat flour and add some Roundup to it? Wouldn't
>> > that come close?
>>
>> No idea... What's Roundup? Maybe you've saved me...
>
> That's one of the resident trolls for Australia. Roundup is a
> pesticide/dessicant and Bruce thinks every thing in America is soaked
> in it. Mostly it's used to kill grass and weeds.

but it is used on corn to a large degree and also used
on wheat. two things many people buy here in various
forms.

since i don't eat a lot of corn it's not a personal
issue, but the wheat stuff is used by us more often.

what is a personal issue to me is the spray drift
from neighboring fields and the water pollution of a
poorly managed field and other land use practices
which aren't good for the environment (air, land and
water all move around but in their moving they also
carry along the pesticides, herbicides, fungicides
and fertilizers). the animals in this area often
use our property as their foraging site because the
fields around us are barren much of the year.

> Grin, I normally use organic flour but mostly because the better brands
> of flour just happen to be orgainic.

if i were baking regularly i'd be using those as
i did find they were better quality and had less
crud in them. but still we do use some mass-
produced flours because they are also consistent
enough and flavor is acceptable for the price.

songbird

Bruce wrote:
> On 13 Mar 2024 20:59:37 GMT, Leonard Blaisdell
><leoblaisdell@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>>On 2024-03-13, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 13 Mar 2024, Bruce wrote:
>>
>>>> It's glyphosate. A significant portion of corn grown in the US is
>>>> genetically modified to be glyphosate-resistant, so it can be applied
>>>> to it liberally.
>>
>>> Hmm, interesting! I will read up on this.
>>
>>
>>Bruce has glyphosate phobia. I believe it's a genetic defect. Poor guy.
>>:(
>
> Leo, on the other hand, loves his herbicides and pesticides. He thinks
> it's cool to glow in the dark.

he's well pickled by now so what does it matter what
he pumps down his own gullet? it's sad that people do
tolerate poisons and destructive farming practices, but
that's how it goes.

right now there's the effort by the cattle producing
states to make it illegal to call lab grown cultured
meats (not that i've ever had any of them myself) meat...
sounds like right out of 1984... but in the same way
Clinton argued about the meaning of the word "is" or
something...

songbird (apparently in a ... mood this morning...

cshenk wrote:
....
> I wasn't the only one unhappy with our bread stale-mate. Lots of us
> did a sort of loose collective purchase setup. The commissary only
> sold white flour and sometimes, whole wheat. There was probably closer
> sources for rye, cake flour and such but we only knew 1 in Fukuoka so
> we'd make a trip there and get specialty flours. 1 hour 20 minutes on
> the Midori express dropped you pretty close to it.

bread stale-mate. :)

Fukuoka was the home of an interesting organic farmer
look up these books if interested:

- Natural Farming, Masanobu Fukuoka
- _The One-Straw Revolution: An Introduction to Natural Farming_, 1978
- _The Natural Way of Farming_, 1985
- _The Road Back to Nature_, 1987
- a philosophical text, not too much detail on farming
- _Sowing Seeds in the Desert_, 2012
- some parts are similar to parts in _The Road Back to Nature_, deja vu all over again...

if i were ever in his area when he was alive and more open
to visitors it would have been interesting, but since he died
his son has gone on to his own thing and probably not maintained
the place to his father's standards.

songbird

On 2024-03-14, songbird <songbird@anthive.com> wrote:
> Bruce wrote:
>> On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 17:20:56 -0400, jmcquown <j_mcquown@comcast.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>On 3/13/2024 4:59 PM, Leonard Blaisdell wrote:
>>>> On 2024-03-13, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, 13 Mar 2024, Bruce wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> It's glyphosate. A significant portion of corn grown in the US is
>>>>>> genetically modified to be glyphosate-resistant, so it can be applied
>>>>>> to it liberally.
>>>>
>>>>> Hmm, interesting! I will read up on this.
>>>>
>>>> Bruce has glyphosate phobia. I believe it's a genetic defect. Poor guy.
>>>> :(
>>>
>>>Bruce has all sorts of phobias, most of them involving misinformation
>>>about the US. The poor guy never tasted grilled corn on the cob. How
>>>sad. :(
>>
>> I probably have tasted it once or twice in a restaurant. Maybe also at
>> home when we grew a bit of corn ourselves.
>>
>> But now I'm wondering what the misinformation is. I don't want to be
>> misinformed about my favourite superpower.
>
> sweet corn is usually not sprayed with glyphosate.

But field corn products are in practically everything. FWIW,
CDC found glyphosate in 87% of a sample of 650 children and in
81% of 2310 samples taken from people 6 years or older.

And then there are the effects on the rest of the biota. For
example, pollinators.

--
Cindy Hamilton

On Thu, 14 Mar 2024, songbird wrote:

> Bruce wrote:
>> On 13 Mar 2024 20:59:37 GMT, Leonard Blaisdell
>> <leoblaisdell@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2024-03-13, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, 13 Mar 2024, Bruce wrote:
>>>
>>>>> It's glyphosate. A significant portion of corn grown in the US is
>>>>> genetically modified to be glyphosate-resistant, so it can be applied
>>>>> to it liberally.
>>>
>>>> Hmm, interesting! I will read up on this.
>>>
>>>
>>> Bruce has glyphosate phobia. I believe it's a genetic defect. Poor guy.
>>> :(
>>
>> Leo, on the other hand, loves his herbicides and pesticides. He thinks
>> it's cool to glow in the dark.
>
> he's well pickled by now so what does it matter what
> he pumps down his own gullet? it's sad that people do
> tolerate poisons and destructive farming practices, but
> that's how it goes.
>
> right now there's the effort by the cattle producing
> states to make it illegal to call lab grown cultured
> meats (not that i've ever had any of them myself) meat...
> sounds like right out of 1984... but in the same way
> Clinton argued about the meaning of the word "is" or
> something...
>
>
> songbird (apparently in a ... mood this morning...
>

What's wrong with that? I would like lab grown meat to be called lab grown
meat. Then I can decide myself if I want to buy it or not. Same with GMO.
Do what you want as long as you tell me it's GMO and I can decide myself
if I want it or not.

songbird wrote :

> but it
it = RoundUp/glyphosate
>is used on corn to a large degree and also used
> on wheat.

And oats! Buy organic oatmeal.
Is there such a thing as organic Cheerios?

--
Fruit arithmetic:
2 apples + 2 oranges = 2 pairs

On 2024-03-14, songbird wrote:

> right now there's the effort by the cattle producing
> states to make it illegal to call lab grown cultured
> meats (not that i've ever had any of them myself) meat...
> sounds like right out of 1984... but in the same way

It's called 'truth in advertising'. Butchers should just
start using the adjective 'metazoan' to distinguish it
from the 'protozoan' lab-cultured product.

That should make everyone happy. And now is the time
to do it. We have already lost the battle to prevent
people from calling fungi a type of 'vegetable'.

On 2024-03-14, Cindy Hamilton <hamilton@invalid.com> wrote:

> But field corn products are in practically everything. FWIW,
> CDC found glyphosate in 87% of a sample of 650 children and in
> 81% of 2310 samples taken from people 6 years or older.

Would that approach the percentage of Adderall and hormone suppressors
in the sample?

D wrote:

>
>
> On Wed, 13 Mar 2024, cshenk wrote:
>
> > D wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, 12 Mar 2024, cshenk wrote:
> > >
> > > > D wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, 12 Mar 2024, Bruce wrote:
> > > > >
> >>>>>On Mon, 11 Mar 2024 21:51:29 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Mon, 11 Mar 2024, Graham wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I often bake sourdough. The techniques and recipes
> > > > > > > > given by Maurizio Leo at www.theperfectloaf.com that
> > > > > > > > are very reliable. However, sometimes I cheat by
> > > > > > > > mixing half of the flour with all of the water and a
> > > > > > > > dollop of sourdough culture and leaving it overnight.
> > > > > > > > Then in the morning, I add the rest of the flour some
> > > > > > > > salt and a tsp of instant yeast to speed thing up.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > But isn't it very complicated with the sourdough culture
> > > > > > > and all of that? I thought about it, but discarded it as
> > > > > > > being too cumbersome, but maybe I should reconsider?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It requires a bit of maintenance, but not every day and it
> > > > > > can take weeks long sleeps and still be woken up.
> > > > > >
> > > > > Hmm, maybe not the thing for me. =(
> > > >
> > > > It generally doesn't work for me either but the reason is bread
> > > > machines demand a static yeast amount because of timed events.
> > > > SD cultures in practise vary enough to throw it all off. I got
> > > > tired of having to start again. I like SD breads, but just as
> > > > one of many types. I don't want them all that way.
> > > >
> > > > When I say I make most of our breads, it's because I buy the
> > > > random english muffin or sour dough.
> > > >
> > > > BTW if looking to investigate corn breads, Jill makes some
> > > > really good ones. I do it too but only randomly.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Yes, I like sour dough too. One of my staples, when I can get
> > > them, is sour dough crisps. Amazing!
> > >
> > > Sadly the availability of corn flour where I live is next to
> > > none, so I would have to buy it online in another country and
> > > have it shipped, so never much experimented with that. I do have
> > > a vision of baking my own tortillas because store bought are
> > > horrible, but they seem to be heavily dependent on good quality
> > > flour.
> >
> > Can you get 'vital wheat gluten? I get it from Amazon as best
> > price.
> >
> > BTW, all the talk on bread, I started one. I used 1 c milk, 1/4 c
> > buttermilk and 1/4 cup water for this one. Rest was 4 c flour mixed
> > with spelt, 2 TB sugar the 2 tsp each salt and yeast. (needed to
> > use up some milk before it spoils).
> >
>
> Very interesting question! I live in eastern europe and never even
> thought about looking for flour on amazon! I wonder what the customs
> will think? Probably they will think drugs.

Dunno on customs but be sure to sort the products by price.

D wrote:

>
>
> On Wed, 13 Mar 2024, cshenk wrote:
>
> > D wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, 12 Mar 2024, cshenk wrote:
> > >
> > > > D wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, 11 Mar 2024, cshenk wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > D wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Good evening,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I changed from wheat flour to spelt today. I can report
> > > > > > > that the experiment was a success and that the taste was
> > > > > > > improved!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Below is my extremely easy bread recipe shamelessly stolen
> > > > > > > from some web site I no longer remember.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > > > Daniel
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > * 3 cups (450g) flour, bread or plain/all purpose * 2 tsp
> > > > > > > instant or rapid rise yeast * 2 tsp cooking / kosher salt,
> > > > > > > NOT table salt * 1 1/2 cups (375 ml) very warm tap water,
> > > > > > > NOT boiling or super hot (ie up to 55°C/130°F) *
> > > > > > > Possibly, 100g of walnuts.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Cook in dutch owen at 230 C for 30 minutes, and then 12
> > > > > > > minutes without lid.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Enjoy!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Not bad but the water seems off on amount (too little for 3
> > > > > > cups flour). I've done einkorn and spelt, both separately
> > > > > > and mixed.
> > > > >
> > > > > Interesting point. I never made the bread with more water,
> > > > > and it turns out really good.
> > > > >
> > > > > With the current amount of water and with wheat flour, the
> > > > > dough is actually quite "runny" and with spelt it's more of a
> > > > > normal dough.
> > > >
> > > > It may taste good but try a higher hydration mix. Also, how
> > > > long is your rising time? That's critical to flavor
> > > > development.
> > > >
> > > > Example, me using a bread machine in dough mode, I get initial
> > > > mix then rise then 2nd mix (advanced topic on uses there but
> > > > only works right in a bread machine) then 2nd rise. 1 hour 35
> > > > minutes (1.5 is rising time). Out of the machine and shaped
> > > > gets 3rd rise of 1 hour. 2.5 hours total rise time.
> > > >
> > > > (recipe snipped)
> > >
> > > That's a good point, never thought of that! The rising time is
> > > usually 75 to 105 minutes depending on what I'm doing. Should I go
> > > for more you think?
> >
> > If that's the total you give it, yes. Mine gets a total of nearly
> > 2hours and about 15-20 minutes. There's 2 pauses in it (mix then
> > punch down mix about 45 minutes into it).
> >
> > I've never actually timed the mixing stages. Right now it looks
> > perfect for it's stage of the process.
> >
> > I'll follow up with pictures once it's done.
> >
>
> Thank you! That's a good point and very easy to test. Next time I'll
> definitely let it sit for longer and knead it more. I also read
> somewhere (haven't tested) that you can let the dough sit in the
> refrigerator for better taste. Maybe you've tried that?

I tried the fridge method once but it didn't seem better. I know some
swear by it.

On 2024-03-14, cshenk <cshenk@virginia-beach.net> wrote:
> D wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 13 Mar 2024, cshenk wrote:
>>
>> > D wrote:
>> >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Tue, 12 Mar 2024, cshenk wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > D wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > On Mon, 11 Mar 2024, cshenk wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > > D wrote:
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Good evening,
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > I changed from wheat flour to spelt today. I can report
>> > > > > > > that the experiment was a success and that the taste was
>> > > > > > > improved!
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Below is my extremely easy bread recipe shamelessly stolen
>> > > > > > > from some web site I no longer remember.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Best regards,
>> > > > > > > Daniel
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > * 3 cups (450g) flour, bread or plain/all purpose * 2 tsp
>> > > > > > > instant or rapid rise yeast * 2 tsp cooking / kosher salt,
>> > > > > > > NOT table salt * 1 1/2 cups (375 ml) very warm tap water,
>> > > > > > > NOT boiling or super hot (ie up to 55°C/130°F) *
>> > > > > > > Possibly, 100g of walnuts.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Cook in dutch owen at 230 C for 30 minutes, and then 12
>> > > > > > > minutes without lid.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Enjoy!
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Not bad but the water seems off on amount (too little for 3
>> > > > > > cups flour). I've done einkorn and spelt, both separately
>> > > > > > and mixed.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Interesting point. I never made the bread with more water,
>> > > > > and it turns out really good.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > With the current amount of water and with wheat flour, the
>> > > > > dough is actually quite "runny" and with spelt it's more of a
>> > > > > normal dough.
>> > > >
>> > > > It may taste good but try a higher hydration mix. Also, how
>> > > > long is your rising time? That's critical to flavor
>> > > > development.
>> > > >
>> > > > Example, me using a bread machine in dough mode, I get initial
>> > > > mix then rise then 2nd mix (advanced topic on uses there but
>> > > > only works right in a bread machine) then 2nd rise. 1 hour 35
>> > > > minutes (1.5 is rising time). Out of the machine and shaped
>> > > > gets 3rd rise of 1 hour. 2.5 hours total rise time.
>> > > >
>> > > > (recipe snipped)
>> > >
>> > > That's a good point, never thought of that! The rising time is
>> > > usually 75 to 105 minutes depending on what I'm doing. Should I go
>> > > for more you think?
>> >
>> > If that's the total you give it, yes. Mine gets a total of nearly
>> > 2hours and about 15-20 minutes. There's 2 pauses in it (mix then
>> > punch down mix about 45 minutes into it).
>> >
>> > I've never actually timed the mixing stages. Right now it looks
>> > perfect for it's stage of the process.
>> >
>> > I'll follow up with pictures once it's done.
>> >
>>
>> Thank you! That's a good point and very easy to test. Next time I'll
>> definitely let it sit for longer and knead it more. I also read
>> somewhere (haven't tested) that you can let the dough sit in the
>> refrigerator for better taste. Maybe you've tried that?
>
> I tried the fridge method once but it didn't seem better. I know some
> swear by it.

How long did you keep it in the fridge?

I've heard that cold-ferment requires a slightly different amount
of yeast. And kneading.

Here are quotes from a couple of renowned bakers on the subject
of cold fermentation:

https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/12397/cold-fermentation-vs-room-temp-fermentation

--
Cindy Hamilton

On Thu, 14 Mar 2024, cshenk wrote:

> D wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 13 Mar 2024, cshenk wrote:
>>
>>> D wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, 12 Mar 2024, cshenk wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> D wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, 11 Mar 2024, cshenk wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> D wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Good evening,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I changed from wheat flour to spelt today. I can report
>>>>>>>> that the experiment was a success and that the taste was
>>>>>>>> improved!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Below is my extremely easy bread recipe shamelessly stolen
>>>>>>>> from some web site I no longer remember.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>> Daniel
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> * 3 cups (450g) flour, bread or plain/all purpose * 2 tsp
>>>>>>>> instant or rapid rise yeast * 2 tsp cooking / kosher salt,
>>>>>>>> NOT table salt * 1 1/2 cups (375 ml) very warm tap water,
>>>>>>>> NOT boiling or super hot (ie up to 55°C/130°F) *
>>>>>>>> Possibly, 100g of walnuts.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cook in dutch owen at 230 C for 30 minutes, and then 12
>>>>>>>> minutes without lid.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Enjoy!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not bad but the water seems off on amount (too little for 3
>>>>>>> cups flour). I've done einkorn and spelt, both separately
>>>>>>> and mixed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Interesting point. I never made the bread with more water,
>>>>>> and it turns out really good.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> With the current amount of water and with wheat flour, the
>>>>>> dough is actually quite "runny" and with spelt it's more of a
>>>>>> normal dough.
>>>>>
>>>>> It may taste good but try a higher hydration mix. Also, how
>>>>> long is your rising time? That's critical to flavor
>>>>> development.
>>>>>
>>>>> Example, me using a bread machine in dough mode, I get initial
>>>>> mix then rise then 2nd mix (advanced topic on uses there but
>>>>> only works right in a bread machine) then 2nd rise. 1 hour 35
>>>>> minutes (1.5 is rising time). Out of the machine and shaped
>>>>> gets 3rd rise of 1 hour. 2.5 hours total rise time.
>>>>>
>>>>> (recipe snipped)
>>>>
>>>> That's a good point, never thought of that! The rising time is
>>>> usually 75 to 105 minutes depending on what I'm doing. Should I go
>>>> for more you think?
>>>
>>> If that's the total you give it, yes. Mine gets a total of nearly
>>> 2hours and about 15-20 minutes. There's 2 pauses in it (mix then
>>> punch down mix about 45 minutes into it).
>>>
>>> I've never actually timed the mixing stages. Right now it looks
>>> perfect for it's stage of the process.
>>>
>>> I'll follow up with pictures once it's done.
>>>
>>
>> Thank you! That's a good point and very easy to test. Next time I'll
>> definitely let it sit for longer and knead it more. I also read
>> somewhere (haven't tested) that you can let the dough sit in the
>> refrigerator for better taste. Maybe you've tried that?
>
> I tried the fridge method once but it didn't seem better. I know some
> swear by it.
>

Strange! I know a chef, I'll have to ask him about it next time I meet
him!

On Thu, 14 Mar 2024 22:36:47 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:

>On Thu, 14 Mar 2024, cshenk wrote:
>
>> D wrote:
>>
>>> Thank you! That's a good point and very easy to test. Next time I'll
>>> definitely let it sit for longer and knead it more. I also read
>>> somewhere (haven't tested) that you can let the dough sit in the
>>> refrigerator for better taste. Maybe you've tried that?
>>
>> I tried the fridge method once but it didn't seem better. I know some
>> swear by it.
>
>Strange! I know a chef, I'll have to ask him about it next time I meet
>him!

Time = Flavour

On 2024-03-14, Leonard Blaisdell <leoblaisdell@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> On 2024-03-14, Cindy Hamilton <hamilton@invalid.com> wrote:
>
>> But field corn products are in practically everything. FWIW,
>> CDC found glyphosate in 87% of a sample of 650 children and in
>> 81% of 2310 samples taken from people 6 years or older.
>
>
> Would that approach the percentage of Adderall and hormone suppressors
> in the sample?

Dunno. How much Adderall and hormone suppressors do you take? Your
cohort is included in that second sample.

--
Cindy Hamilton

On 15 Mar 2024 09:09:28 GMT, Cindy Hamilton <hamilton@invalid.com>
wrote:

>On 2024-03-14, Leonard Blaisdell <leoblaisdell@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> On 2024-03-14, Cindy Hamilton <hamilton@invalid.com> wrote:
>>
>>> But field corn products are in practically everything. FWIW,
>>> CDC found glyphosate in 87% of a sample of 650 children and in
>>> 81% of 2310 samples taken from people 6 years or older.
>>
>>
>> Would that approach the percentage of Adderall and hormone suppressors
>> in the sample?
>
>Dunno. How much Adderall and hormone suppressors do you take? Your
>cohort is included in that second sample.

You said 'cohort'. Now Leo thinks you called him a communist.

Cindy Hamilton wrote:

> On 2024-03-14, cshenk <cshenk@virginia-beach.net> wrote:
> > D wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, 13 Mar 2024, cshenk wrote:
> >>
> >> > D wrote:
> >> >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > On Tue, 12 Mar 2024, cshenk wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > > D wrote:
> >> > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > On Mon, 11 Mar 2024, cshenk wrote:
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > > D wrote:
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > Good evening,
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > I changed from wheat flour to spelt today. I can report
> >> > > > > > > that the experiment was a success and that the taste
> was >> > > > > > > improved!
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > Below is my extremely easy bread recipe shamelessly
> stolen >> > > > > > > from some web site I no longer remember.
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > Best regards,
> >> > > > > > > Daniel
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > * 3 cups (450g) flour, bread or plain/all purpose * 2
> tsp >> > > > > > > instant or rapid rise yeast * 2 tsp cooking /
> kosher salt, >> > > > > > > NOT table salt * 1 1/2 cups (375 ml) very
> warm tap water, >> > > > > > > NOT boiling or super hot (ie up to
> 55°C/130°F) * >> > > > > > > Possibly, 100g of walnuts.
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > Cook in dutch owen at 230 C for 30 minutes, and then 12
> >> > > > > > > minutes without lid.
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > Enjoy!
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > Not bad but the water seems off on amount (too little
> for 3 >> > > > > > cups flour). I've done einkorn and spelt, both
> separately >> > > > > > and mixed.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Interesting point. I never made the bread with more water,
> >> > > > > and it turns out really good.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > With the current amount of water and with wheat flour, the
> >> > > > > dough is actually quite "runny" and with spelt it's more
> of a >> > > > > normal dough.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > It may taste good but try a higher hydration mix. Also, how
> >> > > > long is your rising time? That's critical to flavor
> >> > > > development.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Example, me using a bread machine in dough mode, I get
> initial >> > > > mix then rise then 2nd mix (advanced topic on uses
> there but >> > > > only works right in a bread machine) then 2nd
> rise. 1 hour 35 >> > > > minutes (1.5 is rising time). Out of the
> machine and shaped >> > > > gets 3rd rise of 1 hour. 2.5 hours total
> rise time. >> > > >
> >> > > > (recipe snipped)
> >> > >
> >> > > That's a good point, never thought of that! The rising time is
> >> > > usually 75 to 105 minutes depending on what I'm doing. Should
> I go >> > > for more you think?
> >> >
> >> > If that's the total you give it, yes. Mine gets a total of
> nearly >> > 2hours and about 15-20 minutes. There's 2 pauses in it
> (mix then >> > punch down mix about 45 minutes into it).
> >> >
> >> > I've never actually timed the mixing stages. Right now it looks
> >> > perfect for it's stage of the process.
> >> >
> >> > I'll follow up with pictures once it's done.
> >> >
> >>
> >> Thank you! That's a good point and very easy to test. Next time
> I'll >> definitely let it sit for longer and knead it more. I also
> read >> somewhere (haven't tested) that you can let the dough sit in
> the >> refrigerator for better taste. Maybe you've tried that?
> >
> > I tried the fridge method once but it didn't seem better. I know
> > some swear by it.
>
> How long did you keep it in the fridge?

I don't remember but I had looked it up and followed the directions.
> I've heard that cold-ferment requires a slightly different amount
> of yeast. And kneading.
>
> Here are quotes from a couple of renowned bakers on the subject
> of cold fermentation:
>
>
https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/12397/cold-fermentation-vs-room-temp-fermentation

It would have probably been 12 hours or more.