All ya'll,

I've changed tires by hand (tire irons, lube, gloves) forever. I thought the roadrace slicks I changed long ago were the worst I'd ever have to change but a 10" scooter wheel just proved that theory wrong. Getting the old tire over both rim edges was not a big deal. But then getting the wheel out of the middle was a freaking study in frustration and a test of strength. Then, once I was spent and had lube everywhere including my right ear lobe, getting the first side of the new tire on was impossible. The first side wouldn't go easily on a full half way around the rim so it would squirt out every time I applied an iron at 160 degrees. Geeze it was a pain.

Please don't ask me to change your scooter tires.

Go fast. Take chances.
Mike S.

On Sun, 20 Nov 2022 14:37:42 -0800 (PST), Michael Sturdevant wrote:
> I've changed tires by hand (tire irons, lube, gloves) forever. I
> thought the roadrace slicks I changed long ago were the worst I'd
> ever have to change but a 10" scooter wheel just proved that theory
> wrong.

Even harder than a 15 year old Metzeler MCE Sixdays Extreme in 18"?
Until now, I didn't believe something even remotely similar to this was
possible. When I changed that POS, blood was shed. My knuckles were
toast, back was hurting and let's better not talk about lube. I found
traces on body parts completely unrelated to the massacre several
_days_ after the surgery.

As the usual trash can doesn't accept 18" objects, I first took my XXL
bolt cutters to solve the issue but then ver soon updated to an angle
grinder. Who would have thought that melting rubber makes quite a
decent smoke machine...?

Volker

On 11/20/22 3:11 PM, Volker Bartheld wrote:
> On Sun, 20 Nov 2022 14:37:42 -0800 (PST), Michael Sturdevant wrote:
>> I've changed tires by hand (tire irons, lube, gloves) forever. I
>> thought the roadrace slicks I changed long ago were the worst I'd
>> ever have to change but a 10" scooter wheel just proved that theory
>> wrong.

I've changed MC tires, but I was a lot stronger 30 years ago. Never
pleasant. Even bicycle tires suck. I can't imagine people willing to
deal with sew-ups.

> Even harder than a 15 year old Metzeler MCE Sixdays Extreme in 18"?
> Until now, I didn't believe something even remotely similar to this was
> possible. When I changed that POS, blood was shed. My knuckles were
> toast, back was hurting and let's better not talk about lube. I found
> traces on body parts completely unrelated to the massacre several
> _days_ after the surgery.

There is no such thing as too many tire irons/big screwdrivers.

> As the usual trash can doesn't accept 18" objects, I first took my XXL
> bolt cutters to solve the issue but then ver soon updated to an angle
> grinder. Who would have thought that melting rubber makes quite a
> decent smoke machine...?

You've obviously never watched Roadkill Garage. The guys love to do
burnouts. Why, I have no idea. Seems kind of sick, but there it is.
The shows are otherwise really enjoyable. They're California guys (one
nearby, one up in almond country) which means we get to figure out where
they are from the surroundings. We're mostly correct.

--
Cheers, Bev
"Everything sucks; reverse the wires and everything will blow."
-- Desert Ed

Volker asks:

> Even harder than a 15 year old Metzeler MCE Sixdays Extreme in 18"?

Yep. The slicks had the stiffest, shortest sidewalls you can imagine. The only thing close is an ice race tire. The way they do it around here is cut the sidewalls off a street tire of the same size as the ice tire, put what's left of the street tire inside the ice tire, then run screws from the outside in all the way into the street piece. Makes the sidewalls almost as stiff as the roadrace tires.

These scooter tires were worse, for different reasons. I'm sore today.

Go fast. Take chances.
Mike S.

On Mon, 21 Nov 2022 05:16:44 -0800 (PST), Michael Sturdevant wrote:
> Volker asks:
>> Even harder than a 15 year old Metzeler MCE Sixdays Extreme in 18"?
> Yep. The slicks had the stiffest, shortest sidewalls you can imagine.
> The only thing close is an ice race tire.

OMG! Demons!

> These scooter tires were worse, for different reasons. I'm sore today.

At some point, I bought something like...

https://www.metallbau-woitek.de/motorradbedarf/motorradwerkstatt/easytire-dass-mobile-reifenmontagesystem/
http://hama-racing.de/14.html
https://www.gp503.de/index.php/reifenmontage/montiergeraet-edelstahl-model-gp503.html

.... because I was fed up dinging my rims with tire irons e. g. if tires
for hard terrain refuse to come off. For the Metzeler mentioned above,
I actually put some heavy duty concrete anchors in the garage floor to
secure the device. Sometimes even cheater bars were necessary, more so
with 21" tires than with 19" and 18".

The soft 17" roadraciong tires I use for my Supermotard rims (Michelin
Pilot Power 150/60ZR17) would probably go on with just bare hands on a
warm summer day.

These run flat bastards for cars I even refuse to handle with the badass
pneumatic machine. 15€ well spent to let the pros hurt themselves.

Greets,
Volker

On Sun, 20 Nov 2022 15:33:37 -0800, The Real Bev wrote:
> On 11/20/22 3:11 PM, Volker Bartheld wrote:
>> On Sun, 20 Nov 2022 14:37:42 -0800 (PST), Michael Sturdevant wrote:
>>> I've changed tires by hand (tire irons, lube, gloves) forever. I
>>> thought the roadrace slicks I changed long ago were the worst I'd
>>> ever have to change but a 10" scooter wheel just proved that theory
>>> wrong.
> I've changed MC tires, but I was a lot stronger 30 years ago. Never
> pleasant. Even bicycle tires suck.

For bicycle tires it's more a matter of size and technique. I had pretty
stubborn 26" MTB tires, but more than two of the flimsy Schwalbe plastic
tools were never necessary.

People are telling horror stories about mounting offroad tires with Bib
Mousse
(https://www.michelin.co.uk/motorbike/tips-and-advice/tips-motorbike/michelin-bib-mousse).
Imagine mounting a tire where the tube is already inflated to 15 PSI.

>> As the usual trash can doesn't accept 18" objects, I first took my XXL
>> bolt cutters to solve the issue but then ver soon updated to an angle
>> grinder. Who would have thought that melting rubber makes quite a
>> decent smoke machine...?

> You've obviously never watched Roadkill Garage. The guys love to do
> burnouts. Why, I have no idea.

Good way of having fun with tires that are so worn down that you might
face a hefty fine if the cops spot you riding one of these. 60€ and an
entry in the Flensburg list of evildoers is minimum
(https://www.bussgeldkatalog.org/mindestprofiltiefe/). PER TIRE!

Whenever I'm riding the orange turd (now with new forged piston,
replated cylinder, new gaskets, bearings, seals and carburator tuned on
the dyno), I'm more than prepared for a wild chase against the cops.
Just too many things that are not "original", too many questions to be
asked, too much risk to earn a ticket.

> Seems kind of sick, but there it is.

Doing sick stuff is the only reason why we're riding bikes, isn't it?

Volker

On 11/20/2022 5:37 PM, Michael Sturdevant wrote:
> All ya'll,
>
> I've changed tires by hand (tire irons, lube, gloves) forever. I thought the roadrace slicks I changed long ago were the worst I'd ever have to change but a 10" scooter wheel just proved that theory wrong. Getting the old tire over both rim edges was not a big deal. But then getting the wheel out of the middle was a freaking study in frustration and a test of strength. Then, once I was spent and had lube everywhere including my right ear lobe, getting the first side of the new tire on was impossible. The first side wouldn't go easily on a full half way around the rim so it would squirt out every time I applied an iron at 160 degrees. Geeze it was a pain.
>
> Please don't ask me to change your scooter tires.
>
> Go fast. Take chances.
> Mike S.
>

<mike has tiny fat tire woes>
A Tie down ratchet strap around the circumference
of the tire helps a-lot. I use this technique
on tractor tires, works kinda on Vespa tires...
john

john instructs:

> A Tie down ratchet strap around the circumference
> of the tire helps a-lot. I use this technique
> on tractor tires, works kinda on Vespa tires...

I understand that for getting the bead to seat - the scooter tires are tubeless. But how does that help get the first side of the tire back onto the rim? I need instruction!

Go fast. Take chances.
Mike S.

On 11/21/2022 10:52 AM, Michael Sturdevant wrote:
> john instructs:
>
>> A Tie down ratchet strap around the circumference
>> of the tire helps a-lot. I use this technique
>> on tractor tires, works kinda on Vespa tires...
>
> I understand that for getting the bead to seat - the scooter tires are tubeless. But how does that help get the first side of the tire back onto the rim? I need instruction!
>
> Go fast. Take chances.
> Mike S.

the strap separates the two beads from each other when you're putting
the 1st bead over the rim. it makes it easier for me to put the one side
of the bead into the center of the rim. small diameter tires need all
the slack you can get to get them on... also i typically heat up the
tires before i install them. guys that do this a lot don't need the
strap they have magic knees that push the one side over the rim just
right. i put the rims on an old square of carpet on the ground.
if this guy was close to me I'd just use a cell phone and have
him change the tire...but he's not... https://youtu.be/Bn5N_WT7eIs
john

john elucidates:
> the strap separates the two beads from each other when you're putting
> the 1st bead over the rim. it makes it easier for me to put the one side
> of the bead into the center of the rim. small diameter tires need all
> the slack you can get to get them on... also i typically heat up the
> tires before i install them. guys that do this a lot don't need the
> strap they have magic knees that push the one side over the rim just
> right. i put the rims on an old square of carpet on the ground.
> if this guy was close to me I'd just use a cell phone and have
> him change the tire...but he's not... https://youtu.be/Bn5N_WT7eIs

That makes sense.

Dynabeads do not. I guess if you're in tropical paradise like scooter boy, they do.

Thanksgiving morning ride is ON. 9am to noon. Be there or be rhomboid.

Go fast. Take chances.
Mike S.