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interests / alt.english.usage / Re: just say anything

SubjectAuthor
* just say anythingarthurvv vart
`* just say anythingAnton Shepelev
 `* just say anythingEd Cryer
  `- just say anythingAnton Shepelev

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just say anything

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Subject: just say anything
From: arthurvarr@gmail.com (arthurvv vart)
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 by: arthurvv vart - Thu, 23 Nov 2023 11:22 UTC

1) Say anything and Tom will disagree with you.
2) Say whatever and Tom will disagree with you.

3) If she asks you a question, just say anything.
4) If she asks you a question, just say whatever.

Are '2' and '4' grammatical?
If they are, do they mean the same as '1' and '3'
respectively?

Gratefully,
Navi

Lost in the Twilight Zone of the English language
Interested in structures on the margins of grammaticality
Obsessed with ambiguity

Re: just say anything

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From: anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com (Anton Shepelev)
Newsgroups: alt.english.usage
Subject: Re: just say anything
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2023 15:17:22 +0300
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 by: Anton Shepelev - Thu, 23 Nov 2023 12:17 UTC

Navi:

> 1) Say anything and Tom will disagree with you.
> 2) Say whatever and Tom will disagree with you.
>
> 3) If she asks you a question, just say anything.
> 4) If she asks you a question, just say whatever.
>
> Are '2' and '4' grammatical?
> If they are, do they mean the same as '1' and '3'
> respectively?

Using `whatever' as a noun without a dependent phrase is
dubious. It introduces a predicate, for example:

Say whatever comes to your mind first.

Your 2) and 4) is sloppy English at best.

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Re: just say anything

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From: ed@somewhere.in.the.uk (Ed Cryer)
Newsgroups: alt.english.usage
Subject: Re: just say anything
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2023 21:21:10 +0000
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 by: Ed Cryer - Thu, 23 Nov 2023 21:21 UTC

Anton Shepelev wrote:
> Navi:
>
>> 1) Say anything and Tom will disagree with you.
>> 2) Say whatever and Tom will disagree with you.
>>
>> 3) If she asks you a question, just say anything.
>> 4) If she asks you a question, just say whatever.
>>
>> Are '2' and '4' grammatical?
>> If they are, do they mean the same as '1' and '3'
>> respectively?
>
> Using `whatever' as a noun without a dependent phrase is
> dubious. It introduces a predicate, for example:
>
> Say whatever comes to your mind first.
>
> Your 2) and 4) is sloppy English at best.
>

The usual test in such situations is to play with inversions and
rephrasings. That will show how far they're compatible.

Whatever you want, I'll give it to you.
Anything you want, I'll give it to you.
..........
I'll give you whatever you want.
I'll give you anything you want.
..........

Whatever, I'll give you what you want.
Anything, I'll give you what you want.

I think all of those are acceptable, although some sound more classical.
It's not as with complete grammatical howlers, such as "there's millions
who disagree"; which is more commonly used than "there are ....".

Ed

Re: just say anything

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From: anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com (Anton Shepelev)
Newsgroups: alt.english.usage
Subject: Re: just say anything
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 by: Anton Shepelev - Tue, 28 Nov 2023 10:09 UTC

Ed Cryer:

> The usual test in such situations is to play with
> inversions and rephrasings. That will show how far they're
> compatible.
>
> Whatever you want, I'll give it to you.
> Anything you want, I'll give it to you.
> .....
> I'll give you whatever you want.
> I'll give you anything you want.
> .....

This is merely an apperent compatibility. Syntatically, the
phrases are widely different:

I will give you whatever you want.
Whatever it is that you want, I will give it to you.

If you want anything, I will give it to you.
Name anything you want, and I will give it to you.

Your examples show that syntatically different constructions
can by elision be made seemingly similar.

> Whatever, I'll give you what you want. Anything, I'll
> give you what you want.

These make no sense to me at all.

I remember this episode from a lecture by professor
Wolfengagen on abstract categorical automata. Roundign up,
the profosser held a pause, and, raising his eyes toward the
sky (right through the ceiling), inquired: "What follows
from what I have spoken of today?" A student sitting next
to me, overwhelmed with the complexity of the subject,
mumbled in frustration: "Whatever at all, whatever at all!"

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