Ed Cryer wrote:
> me@privacy.net wrote:
>> I don't know latin at all and could use some help in translating
>> the following sentence from "Annales Fuldenses" year 896
>>
>> "Pacem ergo Greci eodem anno cum Avaris, qui dicuntur Un­gari,
>> facientes; quod eorum concives Bulgari in pravum vertentes
>> hostili expeditione contra eos insurgunt et omnem regionem
>> illo­rum usque portam Constantinopolitanam devastando insecun­tur."
>>
>>
>> The translator of the text has difficulties with the meaning of
>> "eorum consives" which is something like "fellow (Roman)
>> citizen" in classical Latin, but certainly something different
>> in the middle ages.
>>
>
> "The Greci making peace that same year with the Avari (known as
> Ungari); because their "concives" the Bulgari turned to bad, rose
> up against them with a hostile expedition and laid waste all their
> land pushing them up to the gate of Constantinople."
>
> A "civis" is someone who lives in a "civitas". That was primarily
> a city-state (like the old Greek polis); usually a walled city
> with farms and farmland around it. But under the Roman empire it
> blossomed in meaning, until by the early 5th c. Augustine wrote
> about the "Civitas Dei" (the civitas of God).
>
> I've searched through the Latin text of Annales Fuldenses, and the
> word "concivis" occurs a lot. One phrase in particular struck me:
> "et ceteris quibusque exteris nationibus vel concivibus" (and all
> other foreign nations or "concives"). I think it obviously means
> "compatriots" there.
>
> You might find this site interesting;
> (http://macedonia.kroraina.com/en/ibmh/ibmh.htm#3_84)
>
> Ed

Thank you for your explanation. I'm not sure that the word
"compatriots" is really applicable, given the fact that Ungari and
Bulgari lived in two different semi-nomadic states, and were often
hostile to each other. However, they had the same origin,
consequences of which is denied by many historians. Secretly I
hoped that someone can confirm my bias and the latin word
"consives" would means something like "conceaved together".
(Probably a silly idea...)

me@privacy.net wrote:
> Ed Cryer wrote:
>> me@privacy.net wrote:
>>> I don't know latin at all and could use some help in translating the
>>> following sentence from "Annales Fuldenses" year 896
>>>
>>> "Pacem ergo Greci eodem anno cum Avaris, qui dicuntur Un­gari,
>>> facientes; quod eorum concives Bulgari in pravum vertentes
>>> hostili expeditione contra eos insurgunt et omnem regionem illo­rum
>>> usque portam Constantinopolitanam devastando insecun­tur."
>>>
>>>
>>> The translator of the text has difficulties with the meaning of
>>> "eorum consives" which is something like "fellow (Roman) citizen" in
>>> classical Latin, but certainly something different in the middle ages.
>>>
>>
>> "The Greci making peace that same year with the Avari (known as
>> Ungari); because their "concives" the Bulgari turned to bad, rose up
>> against them with a hostile expedition and laid waste all their land
>> pushing them up to the gate of Constantinople."
>>
>> A "civis" is someone who lives in a "civitas". That was primarily a
>> city-state (like the old Greek polis); usually a walled city with
>> farms and farmland around it. But under the Roman empire it blossomed
>> in meaning, until by the early 5th c. Augustine wrote about the
>> "Civitas Dei" (the civitas of God).
>>
>> I've searched through the Latin text of Annales Fuldenses, and the
>> word "concivis" occurs a lot. One phrase in particular struck me: "et
>> ceteris quibusque exteris nationibus vel concivibus" (and all other
>> foreign nations or "concives"). I think it obviously means
>> "compatriots" there.
>>
>> You might find this site interesting;
>> (http://macedonia.kroraina.com/en/ibmh/ibmh.htm#3_84)
>>
>> Ed
>
> Thank you for your explanation. I'm not sure that the word "compatriots"
> is really applicable, given the fact that Ungari and Bulgari lived in
> two different semi-nomadic states, and were often hostile to each other.
> However, they had the same origin, consequences of which is denied by
> many historians. Secretly I hoped that someone can confirm my bias and
> the latin word "consives" would means something like "conceaved
> together". (Probably a silly idea...)
>
>
At the end of Annales Fuldenses there's a Glossary; it says "concives" =
"vicini" (neighbours).
Ah, ah. Whoever wrote that glossary took the easiest way out!
The territorial political units at the time point to the borders of the
Byzantine Empire and the first Bulgarian Empire.
https://www.euratlas.net/history/europe/900/index.html
A choice of two "civitates".
Ed