Do you know of anyone working - or who has worked in the past - on the 12-15th C Northumberland/Yorkshire Percys and/or Vescys?
Thanks
Adrian

On 14-Jul-23 5:40 AM, A Broket wrote:
> Do you know of anyone working - or who has worked in the past - on the 12-15th C Northumberland/Yorkshire Percys and/or Vescys?

I don't know of any current or very recent work on these families, but
you may find useful references in the following articles:

Matthew HOLFORD, Family, lineage and society: medieval pedigrees of the
Percy family, in *Nottingham Medieval Studies* 52 (2008) 165-190

Keith STRINGER, Nobility and identity in medieval Britain and Ireland:
the de Vescy family, c.1120-1314, in *Britain and Ireland, 900-1300:
Insular Responses to Medieval European Change*, edited by Brendan Smith
(Cambridge, 1999) 199-239

Peter Stewart

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Extremely useful, Peter. This has led me on to a number of other references and leads. Thank you very much for your help.

On Friday, July 14, 2023 at 3:01:37 AM UTC+1, Peter Stewart wrote:
> On 14-Jul-23 5:40 AM, A Broket wrote:
> > Do you know of anyone working - or who has worked in the past - on the 12-15th C Northumberland/Yorkshire Percys and/or Vescys?
> I don't know of any current or very recent work on these families, but
> you may find useful references in the following articles:
>
> Matthew HOLFORD, Family, lineage and society: medieval pedigrees of the
> Percy family, in *Nottingham Medieval Studies* 52 (2008) 165-190
>
> Keith STRINGER, Nobility and identity in medieval Britain and Ireland:
> the de Vescy family, c.1120-1314, in *Britain and Ireland, 900-1300:
> Insular Responses to Medieval European Change*, edited by Brendan Smith
> (Cambridge, 1999) 199-239
>
> Peter Stewart
>
>
> --
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
> www.avg.com

On Friday, July 14, 2023 at 1:17:18 AM UTC-7, A Broket wrote:
> Extremely useful, Peter. This has led me on to a number of other references and leads. Thank you very much for your help.

An interesting item it led me to is a U of London PhD thesis by Helen Sarah Matthews addressing bastardy in Medieval England, that includes brief accounts of dozens and dozens of examples. It has several pages dedicated to the Vescys, and likewise to other cases discussed here in the past , such as the last Warenne Earl of Surrey, and many brief summaries regading families of frequent interest: Gaveston, Arundell, Montfort, Stafford and on and on.. Because it is directed toward analysis of the social phenomenon, one pretty much has to scan through the whole thing to see who receives mention, but I anticipate spending a good bit of time with it.

https://pure.royalholloway.ac.uk/ws/portalfiles/portal/16948954/2013matthewshsphd.pdf

taf

On Friday, July 14, 2023 at 5:30:26 PM UTC+1, taf wrote:
> On Friday, July 14, 2023 at 1:17:18 AM UTC-7, A Broket wrote:
> > Extremely useful, Peter. This has led me on to a number of other references and leads. Thank you very much for your help.
> An interesting item it led me to is a U of London PhD thesis by Helen Sarah Matthews addressing bastardy in Medieval England, that includes brief accounts of dozens and dozens of examples. It has several pages dedicated to the Vescys, and likewise to other cases discussed here in the past , such as the last Warenne Earl of Surrey, and many brief summaries regading families of frequent interest: Gaveston, Arundell, Montfort, Stafford and on and on. Because it is directed toward analysis of the social phenomenon, one pretty much has to scan through the whole thing to see who receives mention, but I anticipate spending a good bit of time with it.
>
> https://pure.royalholloway.ac.uk/ws/portalfiles/portal/16948954/2013matthewshsphd.pdf
>
> taf

Peter's references aren't apparently online, so I haven't yet had a chance to follow them up, but I had a quick look at taf's reference to Helen Sarah Matthews' thesis. Her chapter 5 with its details of what estates a particular Vescy held and when is the sort of information that could well be useful to my enquiry, e.g. that the bastard Willliam de Vescy of Kildare held Brompton in Yorkshire in 1301 (Matthews p 132 n 15). And Matthews' simplified Vescy pedigree on p 131 is also useful. However my actual interest is not so much in the genealogies of the Percys and Vescys themselves or their estates per se, but in what became of their retainers who stayed in their estates as Feudalism was ending. For example in the tax return for Brumpton Salden in 1301 William and Isabella de Vescy separately paid the lord of the manor rate (YASRS, 1897 vol 21 pp 59-60). This William was presumably the bastard Willliam de Vescy of Kildare, but which Isabella de Vescy was this? Was she Isabella de Periton, widow of William de Vescy III (d 1297, father of the bastard William Willliam de Vescy of Kildare)? Or might she have been Isabella de Beaumont (widow of John de Vescy, uncle of Willliam de Vescy of Kildare)? The latter Isabella apparently died in 1334, and among her many estates was Bolton Percy in Yorkshire. Which Vescy was which and what was their relationship to Percys is all very interesting and useful, but only because my enquiry is actually about retainers, and in this case whether the other 36 taxpayers in Brumpton in 1301 were all in the Vescy retinue or had been, and, as another example, whether the 1379 taxpayers of Bolton Percy and nearby vills or their forbears were former Vescy or Percy retainers?

On 15-Jul-23 2:30 AM, taf wrote:
> On Friday, July 14, 2023 at 1:17:18 AM UTC-7, A Broket wrote:
>> Extremely useful, Peter. This has led me on to a number of other references and leads. Thank you very much for your help.
>
> An interesting item it led me to is a U of London PhD thesis by Helen Sarah Matthews addressing bastardy in Medieval England, that includes brief accounts of dozens and dozens of examples. It has several pages dedicated to the Vescys, and likewise to other cases discussed here in the past , such as the last Warenne Earl of Surrey, and many brief summaries regading families of frequent interest: Gaveston, Arundell, Montfort, Stafford and on and on. Because it is directed toward analysis of the social phenomenon, one pretty much has to scan through the whole thing to see who receives mention, but I anticipate spending a good bit of time with it.
>
> https://pure.royalholloway.ac.uk/ws/portalfiles/portal/16948954/2013matthewshsphd.pdf

A version of this (or spin-off, without footnotes) was published in 2019
as *The Legitimacy of Bastards: The Place of Illegitimate Children in
Later Medieval England* (Pen & Sword Books).

As to genealogy, in this she disconcertingly states: "One of the
earliest known coats of arms for an illegitimate son were those of
William Longspée, Earl of Salisbury (c.1176–1226), the bastard son of
Henry II (1154–89) and his mistress Fair Rosamund".

Ho - to use an exclamation she may not have caught up with yet - hum.

Peter Stewart

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This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
www.avg.com

On 15-Jul-23 6:09 AM, A Broket wrote:
> On Friday, July 14, 2023 at 5:30:26 PM UTC+1, taf wrote:
>> On Friday, July 14, 2023 at 1:17:18 AM UTC-7, A Broket wrote:
>>> Extremely useful, Peter. This has led me on to a number of other references and leads. Thank you very much for your help.
>> An interesting item it led me to is a U of London PhD thesis by Helen Sarah Matthews addressing bastardy in Medieval England, that includes brief accounts of dozens and dozens of examples. It has several pages dedicated to the Vescys, and likewise to other cases discussed here in the past , such as the last Warenne Earl of Surrey, and many brief summaries regading families of frequent interest: Gaveston, Arundell, Montfort, Stafford and on and on. Because it is directed toward analysis of the social phenomenon, one pretty much has to scan through the whole thing to see who receives mention, but I anticipate spending a good bit of time with it.
>>
>> https://pure.royalholloway.ac.uk/ws/portalfiles/portal/16948954/2013matthewshsphd.pdf
>>
>> taf
>
> Peter's references aren't apparently online, so I haven't yet had a chance to follow them up,

Matthew Holford's 2008 article is available here:
https://www.brepolsonline.net/doi/abs/10.1484/J.NMS.3.432. The cost is
high but you may find a library providing free access, as I have done.

Keith Stringer's article is available here:
https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/abs/britain-and-ireland-9001300/nobility-and-identity-in-medieval-britain-and-ireland-the-de-vescy-family-c-11201314/BA27A96760546147DA00219BEE9953CE.
Ditto.

but I had a quick look at taf's reference to Helen Sarah Matthews'
thesis. Her chapter 5 with its details of what estates a particular
Vescy held and when is the sort of information that could well be useful
to my enquiry, e.g. that the bastard Willliam de Vescy of Kildare held
Brompton in Yorkshire in 1301 (Matthews p 132 n 15). And Matthews'
simplified Vescy pedigree on p 131 is also useful. However my actual
interest is not so much in the genealogies of the Percys and Vescys
themselves or their estates per se, but in what became of their
retainers who stayed in their estates as Feudalism was ending. For
example in the tax return for Brumpton Salden in 1301 William and
Isabella de Vescy separately paid the lord of the manor rate (YASRS,
1897 vol 21 pp 59-60). This William was presumably the bastard Willliam
de Vescy of Kildare, but which Isabella de Vescy was this? Was she
Isabella de Periton, widow of William de Vescy III (d 1297, father of
the bastard William Willliam de Vescy of Kildare)? Or might she have
been Isabella de Beaumont (widow of John de Vescy, uncle of Willliam de
Vescy of Kildare)? The latter Isabella apparently died in 1334, and
among her many estates was Bolton Percy in Yorkshire. Which Vescy was
which and what was their relationship to Percys is all very interesting
and useful, but only because my enquiry is actually about retainers, and
in this case whether the other 36 taxpayers in Brumpton in 1301 were all
in the Vescy retinue or had been, and, as another example, whether the
1379 taxpayers of Bolton Percy and nearby vills or their forbears were
former Vescy or Percy retainers?

You might try:

*Border Liberties and Loyalties: North-East England, c. 1200-c. 1400*,
edited by Holford and Stringer (Edinburgh, 2010), available here:
https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.3366/j.ctt1r27j9

and

*North-East England in the Later Middle Ages*, edited by Christian Liddy
and Richard Britnell (Woodbridge, 2005), available here:
https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.7722/j.ctt9qdh53

Many public and university libraries will provide free access to these.

Peter Stewart

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
www.avg.com

On Friday, July 14, 2023 at 4:28:56 PM UTC-7, Peter Stewart wrote:
> On 15-Jul-23 2:30 AM, taf wrote:
> > On Friday, July 14, 2023 at 1:17:18 AM UTC-7, A Broket wrote:
> >> Extremely useful, Peter. This has led me on to a number of other references and leads. Thank you very much for your help.
> >
> > An interesting item it led me to is a U of London PhD thesis by Helen Sarah Matthews addressing bastardy in Medieval England, that includes brief accounts of dozens and dozens of examples. It has several pages dedicated to the Vescys, and likewise to other cases discussed here in the past , such as the last Warenne Earl of Surrey, and many brief summaries regading families of frequent interest: Gaveston, Arundell, Montfort, Stafford and on and on. Because it is directed toward analysis of the social phenomenon, one pretty much has to scan through the whole thing to see who receives mention, but I anticipate spending a good bit of time with it.
> >
> > https://pure.royalholloway.ac.uk/ws/portalfiles/portal/16948954/2013matthewshsphd.pdf
> A version of this (or spin-off, without footnotes) was published in 2019
> as *The Legitimacy of Bastards: The Place of Illegitimate Children in
> Later Medieval England* (Pen & Sword Books).
>
> As to genealogy, in this she disconcertingly states: "One of the
> earliest known coats of arms for an illegitimate son were those of
> William Longspée, Earl of Salisbury (c.1176–1226), the bastard son of
> Henry II (1154–89) and his mistress Fair Rosamund".
>

Well. That's unfortunate.

On Saturday, July 15, 2023 at 8:50:45 AM UTC-7, taf wrote:
> On Friday, July 14, 2023 at 4:28:56 PM UTC-7, Peter Stewart wrote:
> > As to genealogy, in this she disconcertingly states: "One of the
> > earliest known coats of arms for an illegitimate son were those of
> > William Longspée, Earl of Salisbury (c.1176–1226), the bastard son of
> > Henry II (1154–89) and his mistress Fair Rosamund".
> >
> Well. That's unfortunate.

I will add that care is always warranted when using theses/dissertations, which by their very nature generally are the works of relatively new scholars who have garnered for themselves knowledge that is deep, but quite narrow.. The main value is in their collation of relevant primary materials. The quality of their synthesis is variable.

taf

On Friday, July 14, 2023 at 5:40:50 AM UTC+10, A Broket wrote:
> Do you know of anyone working - or who has worked in the past - on the 12-15th C Northumberland/Yorkshire Percys and/or Vescys?
> Thanks
> Adrian
Do you have a specific Question?

On Saturday, July 15, 2023 at 8:19:17 PM UTC+1, taf wrote:
> On Saturday, July 15, 2023 at 8:50:45 AM UTC-7, taf wrote:
> > On Friday, July 14, 2023 at 4:28:56 PM UTC-7, Peter Stewart wrote:
> > > As to genealogy, in this she disconcertingly states: "One of the
> > > earliest known coats of arms for an illegitimate son were those of
> > > William Longspée, Earl of Salisbury (c.1176–1226), the bastard son of
> > > Henry II (1154–89) and his mistress Fair Rosamund".
> > >
> > Well. That's unfortunate.
> I will add that care is always warranted when using theses/dissertations, which by their very nature generally are the works of relatively new scholars who have garnered for themselves knowledge that is deep, but quite narrow. The main value is in their collation of relevant primary materials. The quality of their synthesis is variable.
>
> taf

Another message was posted here but I think it has been deleted; it asked if I had a specific question.
I have noticed that most (perhaps all?) of the dozen or so 14th C records from Yorkshire, Northumberland and Lincolnshire that I have found of people called Broket seem to come from settlements that were held by Percys. Brompton, I think was Vescy territory, but I think they were Percy allies? I know very little about Percy or Vescy retinues, but I am wondering whether it's reasonable to assume that these people called Broket, or perhaps their forbears, would have been Percy retainers? And if so, what that meant and how might they have settled where they did? Thanks for any observations.

On 19-Jul-23 2:20 AM, A Broket wrote:
> On Saturday, July 15, 2023 at 8:19:17 PM UTC+1, taf wrote:
>> On Saturday, July 15, 2023 at 8:50:45 AM UTC-7, taf wrote:
>>> On Friday, July 14, 2023 at 4:28:56 PM UTC-7, Peter Stewart wrote:
>>>> As to genealogy, in this she disconcertingly states: "One of the
>>>> earliest known coats of arms for an illegitimate son were those of
>>>> William Longspée, Earl of Salisbury (c.1176–1226), the bastard son of
>>>> Henry II (1154–89) and his mistress Fair Rosamund".
>>>>
>>> Well. That's unfortunate.
>> I will add that care is always warranted when using theses/dissertations, which by their very nature generally are the works of relatively new scholars who have garnered for themselves knowledge that is deep, but quite narrow. The main value is in their collation of relevant primary materials. The quality of their synthesis is variable.
>>
>> taf
>
>
> Another message was posted here but I think it has been deleted; it asked if I had a specific question.
> I have noticed that most (perhaps all?) of the dozen or so 14th C records from Yorkshire, Northumberland and Lincolnshire that I have found of people called Broket seem to come from settlements that were held by Percys. Brompton, I think was Vescy territory, but I think they were Percy allies? I know very little about Percy or Vescy retinues, but I am wondering whether it's reasonable to assume that these people called Broket, or perhaps their forbears, would have been Percy retainers? And if so, what that meant and how might they have settled where they did? Thanks for any observations.

You may find useful mentions of the Percy, Vescy and Broket families in
Bethany Hamblen's 2008 PhD thesis here:
https://etheses.whiterose.ac.uk/11085/1/495878.pdf (she is now the
archivist at Balliol College in Oxford if you want to contact her).

Peter Stewart

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
www.avg.com

On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 9:29:37 AM UTC+10, Peter Stewart wrote:
> On 19-Jul-23 2:20 AM, A Broket wrote:
> > On Saturday, July 15, 2023 at 8:19:17 PM UTC+1, taf wrote:
> >> On Saturday, July 15, 2023 at 8:50:45 AM UTC-7, taf wrote:
> >>> On Friday, July 14, 2023 at 4:28:56 PM UTC-7, Peter Stewart wrote:
> >>>> As to genealogy, in this she disconcertingly states: "One of the
> >>>> earliest known coats of arms for an illegitimate son were those of
> >>>> William Longspée, Earl of Salisbury (c.1176–1226), the bastard son of
> >>>> Henry II (1154–89) and his mistress Fair Rosamund".
> >>>>
> >>> Well. That's unfortunate.
> >> I will add that care is always warranted when using theses/dissertations, which by their very nature generally are the works of relatively new scholars who have garnered for themselves knowledge that is deep, but quite narrow. The main value is in their collation of relevant primary materials. The quality of their synthesis is variable.
> >>
> >> taf
> >
> >
> > Another message was posted here but I think it has been deleted; it asked if I had a specific question.
> > I have noticed that most (perhaps all?) of the dozen or so 14th C records from Yorkshire, Northumberland and Lincolnshire that I have found of people called Broket seem to come from settlements that were held by Percys. Brompton, I think was Vescy territory, but I think they were Percy allies? I know very little about Percy or Vescy retinues, but I am wondering whether it's reasonable to assume that these people called Broket, or perhaps their forbears, would have been Percy retainers? And if so, what that meant and how might they have settled where they did? Thanks for any observations.
> You may find useful mentions of the Percy, Vescy and Broket families in
> Bethany Hamblen's 2008 PhD thesis here:
> https://etheses.whiterose.ac.uk/11085/1/495878.pdf (she is now the
> archivist at Balliol College in Oxford if you want to contact her).
> Peter Stewart
>
> --
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
> www.avg.com
Theoretically the two of you maybe related: Percy and Steward are or maybe related going back 800 years.

On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 12:29:37 AM UTC+1, Peter Stewart wrote:
> On 19-Jul-23 2:20 AM, A Broket wrote:
> > On Saturday, July 15, 2023 at 8:19:17 PM UTC+1, taf wrote:
> >> On Saturday, July 15, 2023 at 8:50:45 AM UTC-7, taf wrote:
> >>> On Friday, July 14, 2023 at 4:28:56 PM UTC-7, Peter Stewart wrote:
> >>>> As to genealogy, in this she disconcertingly states: "One of the
> >>>> earliest known coats of arms for an illegitimate son were those of
> >>>> William Longspée, Earl of Salisbury (c.1176–1226), the bastard son of
> >>>> Henry II (1154–89) and his mistress Fair Rosamund".
> >>>>
> >>> Well. That's unfortunate.
> >> I will add that care is always warranted when using theses/dissertations, which by their very nature generally are the works of relatively new scholars who have garnered for themselves knowledge that is deep, but quite narrow. The main value is in their collation of relevant primary materials. The quality of their synthesis is variable.
> >>
> >> taf
> >
> >
> > Another message was posted here but I think it has been deleted; it asked if I had a specific question.
> > I have noticed that most (perhaps all?) of the dozen or so 14th C records from Yorkshire, Northumberland and Lincolnshire that I have found of people called Broket seem to come from settlements that were held by Percys. Brompton, I think was Vescy territory, but I think they were Percy allies? I know very little about Percy or Vescy retinues, but I am wondering whether it's reasonable to assume that these people called Broket, or perhaps their forbears, would have been Percy retainers? And if so, what that meant and how might they have settled where they did? Thanks for any observations.
> You may find useful mentions of the Percy, Vescy and Broket families in
> Bethany Hamblen's 2008 PhD thesis here:
> https://etheses.whiterose.ac.uk/11085/1/495878.pdf (she is now the
> archivist at Balliol College in Oxford if you want to contact her).
> Peter Stewart
>
> --
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
> www.avg.com

Well this is an excellent lead, Peter, many thanks. I will certainly contact her. Thank you very much.

On Wednesday, 19 July 2023 at 10:02:33 UTC+2, A Broket wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 12:29:37 AM UTC+1, Peter Stewart wrote:
> > On 19-Jul-23 2:20 AM, A Broket wrote:
> > > On Saturday, July 15, 2023 at 8:19:17 PM UTC+1, taf wrote:
> > >> On Saturday, July 15, 2023 at 8:50:45 AM UTC-7, taf wrote:
> > >>> On Friday, July 14, 2023 at 4:28:56 PM UTC-7, Peter Stewart wrote:
> > >>>> As to genealogy, in this she disconcertingly states: "One of the
> > >>>> earliest known coats of arms for an illegitimate son were those of
> > >>>> William Longspée, Earl of Salisbury (c.1176–1226), the bastard son of
> > >>>> Henry II (1154–89) and his mistress Fair Rosamund".
> > >>>>
> > >>> Well. That's unfortunate.
> > >> I will add that care is always warranted when using theses/dissertations, which by their very nature generally are the works of relatively new scholars who have garnered for themselves knowledge that is deep, but quite narrow. The main value is in their collation of relevant primary materials.. The quality of their synthesis is variable.
> > >>
> > >> taf
> > >
> > >
> > > Another message was posted here but I think it has been deleted; it asked if I had a specific question.
> > > I have noticed that most (perhaps all?) of the dozen or so 14th C records from Yorkshire, Northumberland and Lincolnshire that I have found of people called Broket seem to come from settlements that were held by Percys. Brompton, I think was Vescy territory, but I think they were Percy allies? I know very little about Percy or Vescy retinues, but I am wondering whether it's reasonable to assume that these people called Broket, or perhaps their forbears, would have been Percy retainers? And if so, what that meant and how might they have settled where they did? Thanks for any observations.
> > You may find useful mentions of the Percy, Vescy and Broket families in
> > Bethany Hamblen's 2008 PhD thesis here:
> > https://etheses.whiterose.ac.uk/11085/1/495878.pdf (she is now the
> > archivist at Balliol College in Oxford if you want to contact her).
> > Peter Stewart
> >
> > --
> > This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
> > www.avg.com
> Well this is an excellent lead, Peter, many thanks. I will certainly contact her. Thank you very much.
I don't know whether this would be of any help, but this has helped me with both Percy and my Chamberlayne research.
Early Yorkshire Charters - The Percy Fee. Retrieved from Google e-Books [https://books.google.de/books?id=EkB2UdPlD4sC&pg=PA399&dq=Joan+Chamberlain+Lely&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjwj42x6qKAAxWpg_0HHeAWCrMQ6AF6BAgEEAI#v=snippet&q=%22North%20Reston%22&f=false (Here;)] Accessed 22 Jul 2023.

On Monday, July 31, 2023 at 7:05:54 AM UTC+1, Frances Piercy-Reins wrote:
> On Wednesday, 19 July 2023 at 10:02:33 UTC+2, A Broket wrote:
> > On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 12:29:37 AM UTC+1, Peter Stewart wrote:
> > > On 19-Jul-23 2:20 AM, A Broket wrote:
> > > > On Saturday, July 15, 2023 at 8:19:17 PM UTC+1, taf wrote:
> > > >> On Saturday, July 15, 2023 at 8:50:45 AM UTC-7, taf wrote:
> > > >>> On Friday, July 14, 2023 at 4:28:56 PM UTC-7, Peter Stewart wrote:
> > > >>>> As to genealogy, in this she disconcertingly states: "One of the
> > > >>>> earliest known coats of arms for an illegitimate son were those of
> > > >>>> William Longspée, Earl of Salisbury (c.1176–1226), the bastard son of
> > > >>>> Henry II (1154–89) and his mistress Fair Rosamund".
> > > >>>>
> > > >>> Well. That's unfortunate.
> > > >> I will add that care is always warranted when using theses/dissertations, which by their very nature generally are the works of relatively new scholars who have garnered for themselves knowledge that is deep, but quite narrow. The main value is in their collation of relevant primary materials. The quality of their synthesis is variable.
> > > >>
> > > >> taf
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Another message was posted here but I think it has been deleted; it asked if I had a specific question.
> > > > I have noticed that most (perhaps all?) of the dozen or so 14th C records from Yorkshire, Northumberland and Lincolnshire that I have found of people called Broket seem to come from settlements that were held by Percys. Brompton, I think was Vescy territory, but I think they were Percy allies? I know very little about Percy or Vescy retinues, but I am wondering whether it's reasonable to assume that these people called Broket, or perhaps their forbears, would have been Percy retainers? And if so, what that meant and how might they have settled where they did? Thanks for any observations.
> > > You may find useful mentions of the Percy, Vescy and Broket families in
> > > Bethany Hamblen's 2008 PhD thesis here:
> > > https://etheses.whiterose.ac.uk/11085/1/495878.pdf (she is now the
> > > archivist at Balliol College in Oxford if you want to contact her).
> > > Peter Stewart
> > >
> > > --
> > > This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
> > > www.avg.com
> > Well this is an excellent lead, Peter, many thanks. I will certainly contact her. Thank you very much.
> I don't know whether this would be of any help, but this has helped me with both Percy and my Chamberlayne research.
> Early Yorkshire Charters - The Percy Fee. Retrieved from Google e-Books [https://books.google.de/books?id=EkB2UdPlD4sC&pg=PA399&dq=Joan+Chamberlain+Lely&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjwj42x6qKAAxWpg_0HHeAWCrMQ6AF6BAgEEAI#v=snippet&q=%22North%20Reston%22&f=false (Here;)] Accessed 22 Jul 2023.
Thanks very much Frances. I had chapter II, but have now found the rest. A fantastic 1963 work. I was also wondering if any more recent work had been done, and the other references from Peter Stewart and taf have been very useful too. This is a brilliant forum :)