Out of curiosity. how many children did he have? I know Edmund, Constance and Richard of York. ALL with Isabela of Castile. But he was married twice No Children with Joan??? I also do ne see any illegitimated Children. No Mistresses.

On Saturday, July 22, 2023 at 8:21:14 PM UTC-4, George Tsambourakis wrote:
> Out of curiosity. how many children did he have? I know Edmund, Constance and Richard of York. ALL with Isabela of Castile. But he was married twice No Children with Joan??? I also do ne see any illegitimated Children. No Mistresses.

This should not be entirely surprising; Joan was married 4x without any known children from any of her spouses.

Where have you looked to try and research this question so far? Being a child of a 14th century English Monarch, his life is not terribly obscure.

--Joe C

On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 10:51:19 AM UTC+10, joseph cook wrote:
> On Saturday, July 22, 2023 at 8:21:14 PM UTC-4, George Tsambourakis wrote:
> > Out of curiosity. how many children did he have? I know Edmund, Constance and Richard of York. ALL with Isabela of Castile. But he was married twice No Children with Joan??? I also do ne see any illegitimated Children. No Mistresses.
> This should not be entirely surprising; Joan was married 4x without any known children from any of her spouses.
>
> Where have you looked to try and research this question so far? Being a child of a 14th century English Monarch, his life is not terribly obscure.
>
> --Joe C
I started researching in 1955. In the '80 I was a member of a small number of Invitation only research groups (Italy and Germany). Those days I was very active. These groups were infiltrated by "religious" individuals with their own agenda and were forced to close. I continued to communicate with others when this group was not part of Google. Than to many Porno stories and pictures appeared in this group and left. Byzantium, Italy and Balkans are my main interest. Last few years, I more and more persons, predominantly from Great Britain, claim to be descendants of the Royal family, so, I decided to review my records. I cover the Plantagenets from day 1, with geoffrey I, De Chateau-Landon, Count of Gastinois (970-100); well before the name existed. It is time to correct any misunderstandings from the '80 and '90

On Saturday, July 22, 2023 at 6:46:31 PM UTC-7, George Tsambourakis wrote:
> On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 10:51:19 AM UTC+10, joseph cook wrote:
> > On Saturday, July 22, 2023 at 8:21:14 PM UTC-4, George Tsambourakis wrote:
> > > Out of curiosity. how many children did he have? I know Edmund, Constance and Richard of York. ALL with Isabela of Castile. But he was married twice No Children with Joan??? I also do ne see any illegitimated Children. No Mistresses.
> > This should not be entirely surprising; Joan was married 4x without any known children from any of her spouses.
> >
> > Where have you looked to try and research this question so far? Being a child of a 14th century English Monarch, his life is not terribly obscure.
> >
> > --Joe C
> I started researching in 1955. In the '80 I was a member of a small number of Invitation only research groups (Italy and Germany). Those days I was very active. These groups were infiltrated by "religious" individuals with their own agenda and were forced to close. I continued to communicate with others when this group was not part of Google. Than to many Porno stories and pictures appeared in this group and left. Byzantium, Italy and Balkans are my main interest. Last few years, I more and more persons, predominantly from Great Britain, claim to be descendants of the Royal family, so, I decided to review my records. I cover the Plantagenets from day 1, with geoffrey I, De Chateau-Landon, Count of Gastinois (970-100); well before the name existed. It is time to correct any misunderstandings from the '80 and '90

A good place to start of questions of this sort is
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmund_of_Langley,_1st_Duke_of_York

Often, we find extra children, even supposed children, of famous people, stuck into articles in WIkipedia
Here we don't see that, just the three.

On Tuesday, July 25, 2023 at 4:39:40 AM UTC+10, Will Johnson wrote:
> On Saturday, July 22, 2023 at 6:46:31 PM UTC-7, George Tsambourakis wrote:
> > On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 10:51:19 AM UTC+10, joseph cook wrote:
> > > On Saturday, July 22, 2023 at 8:21:14 PM UTC-4, George Tsambourakis wrote:
> > > > Out of curiosity. how many children did he have? I know Edmund, Constance and Richard of York. ALL with Isabela of Castile. But he was married twice No Children with Joan??? I also do ne see any illegitimated Children.. No Mistresses.
> > > This should not be entirely surprising; Joan was married 4x without any known children from any of her spouses.
> > >
> > > Where have you looked to try and research this question so far? Being a child of a 14th century English Monarch, his life is not terribly obscure.
> > >
> > > --Joe C
> > I started researching in 1955. In the '80 I was a member of a small number of Invitation only research groups (Italy and Germany). Those days I was very active. These groups were infiltrated by "religious" individuals with their own agenda and were forced to close. I continued to communicate with others when this group was not part of Google. Than to many Porno stories and pictures appeared in this group and left. Byzantium, Italy and Balkans are my main interest. Last few years, I more and more persons, predominantly from Great Britain, claim to be descendants of the Royal family, so, I decided to review my records. I cover the Plantagenets from day 1, with geoffrey I, De Chateau-Landon, Count of Gastinois (970-100); well before the name existed. It is time to correct any misunderstandings from the '80 and '90
> A good place to start of questions of this sort is
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmund_of_Langley,_1st_Duke_of_York
>
> Often, we find extra children, even supposed children, of famous people, stuck into articles in WIkipedia
> Here we don't see that, just the three.

Thanks.
There are anomalies in the report.
The mother is mentioned as Philppa of Hainault. In the old days, she was known as Philippa d'Avesnes of Hainault, daughter of William "The Good" d'Avesnes, Count of Hainault and Joan of Valois. Philippa was born in Belgium 24 Jun 1311 and died in England 15 Aug 1369. But her birthday and place of birth are also disputed today.
Everything has changed. Now her grandfather was the last of d'Avesnes, the Counts of Hainault followed.
The boundaries keep changing.

On Tuesday, July 25, 2023 at 7:28:01 AM UTC+10, George Tsambourakis wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 25, 2023 at 4:39:40 AM UTC+10, Will Johnson wrote:
> > On Saturday, July 22, 2023 at 6:46:31 PM UTC-7, George Tsambourakis wrote:
> > > On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 10:51:19 AM UTC+10, joseph cook wrote:
> > > > On Saturday, July 22, 2023 at 8:21:14 PM UTC-4, George Tsambourakis wrote:
> > > > > Out of curiosity. how many children did he have? I know Edmund, Constance and Richard of York. ALL with Isabela of Castile. But he was married twice No Children with Joan??? I also do ne see any illegitimated Children. No Mistresses.
> > > > This should not be entirely surprising; Joan was married 4x without any known children from any of her spouses.
> > > >
> > > > Where have you looked to try and research this question so far? Being a child of a 14th century English Monarch, his life is not terribly obscure.
> > > >
> > > > --Joe C
> > > I started researching in 1955. In the '80 I was a member of a small number of Invitation only research groups (Italy and Germany). Those days I was very active. These groups were infiltrated by "religious" individuals with their own agenda and were forced to close. I continued to communicate with others when this group was not part of Google. Than to many Porno stories and pictures appeared in this group and left. Byzantium, Italy and Balkans are my main interest. Last few years, I more and more persons, predominantly from Great Britain, claim to be descendants of the Royal family, so, I decided to review my records. I cover the Plantagenets from day 1, with geoffrey I, De Chateau-Landon, Count of Gastinois (970-100); well before the name existed. It is time to correct any misunderstandings from the '80 and '90
> > A good place to start of questions of this sort is
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmund_of_Langley,_1st_Duke_of_York
> >
> > Often, we find extra children, even supposed children, of famous people, stuck into articles in WIkipedia
> > Here we don't see that, just the three.
> Thanks.
> There are anomalies in the report.
> The mother is mentioned as Philppa of Hainault. In the old days, she was known as Philippa d'Avesnes of Hainault, daughter of William "The Good" d'Avesnes, Count of Hainault and Joan of Valois. Philippa was born in Belgium 24 Jun 1311 and died in England 15 Aug 1369. But her birthday and place of birth are also disputed today.
> Everything has changed. Now her grandfather was the last of d'Avesnes, the Counts of Hainault followed.
> The boundaries keep changing.
I did not mentioned that Philippas ancestors were firstly mentioned in Greece, they were Barons of Evia, also rulers of Athens, They moved to the Nederland's some 100 -150 years later, by marriage to "Flanders", etc etc.

On Monday, July 24, 2023 at 2:39:43 PM UTC-7, George Tsambourakis wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 25, 2023 at 7:28:01 AM UTC+10, George Tsambourakis wrote:
> > On Tuesday, July 25, 2023 at 4:39:40 AM UTC+10, Will Johnson wrote:
> > > On Saturday, July 22, 2023 at 6:46:31 PM UTC-7, George Tsambourakis wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 10:51:19 AM UTC+10, joseph cook wrote:
> > > > > On Saturday, July 22, 2023 at 8:21:14 PM UTC-4, George Tsambourakis wrote:
> > > > > > Out of curiosity. how many children did he have? I know Edmund, Constance and Richard of York. ALL with Isabela of Castile. But he was married twice No Children with Joan??? I also do ne see any illegitimated Children. No Mistresses.
> > > > > This should not be entirely surprising; Joan was married 4x without any known children from any of her spouses.
> > > > >
> > > > > Where have you looked to try and research this question so far? Being a child of a 14th century English Monarch, his life is not terribly obscure.
> > > > >
> > > > > --Joe C
> > > > I started researching in 1955. In the '80 I was a member of a small number of Invitation only research groups (Italy and Germany). Those days I was very active. These groups were infiltrated by "religious" individuals with their own agenda and were forced to close. I continued to communicate with others when this group was not part of Google. Than to many Porno stories and pictures appeared in this group and left. Byzantium, Italy and Balkans are my main interest. Last few years, I more and more persons, predominantly from Great Britain, claim to be descendants of the Royal family, so, I decided to review my records. I cover the Plantagenets from day 1, with geoffrey I, De Chateau-Landon, Count of Gastinois (970-100); well before the name existed. It is time to correct any misunderstandings from the '80 and '90
> > > A good place to start of questions of this sort is
> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmund_of_Langley,_1st_Duke_of_York
> > >
> > > Often, we find extra children, even supposed children, of famous people, stuck into articles in WIkipedia
> > > Here we don't see that, just the three.
> > Thanks.
> > There are anomalies in the report.
> > The mother is mentioned as Philppa of Hainault. In the old days, she was known as Philippa d'Avesnes of Hainault, daughter of William "The Good" d'Avesnes, Count of Hainault and Joan of Valois. Philippa was born in Belgium 24 Jun 1311 and died in England 15 Aug 1369. But her birthday and place of birth are also disputed today.
> > Everything has changed. Now her grandfather was the last of d'Avesnes, the Counts of Hainault followed.
> > The boundaries keep changing.
> I did not mentioned that Philippas ancestors were firstly mentioned in Greece, they were Barons of Evia, also rulers of Athens, They moved to the Nederland's some 100 -150 years later, by marriage to "Flanders", etc etc.

Well Philippa's ancestors were also Counts of Luxembourg, Kings of France and Kings of Hungary
Among other things.

On 25-Jul-23 7:39 AM, George Tsambourakis wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 25, 2023 at 7:28:01 AM UTC+10, George Tsambourakis wrote:
>> On Tuesday, July 25, 2023 at 4:39:40 AM UTC+10, Will Johnson wrote:
>>> On Saturday, July 22, 2023 at 6:46:31 PM UTC-7, George Tsambourakis wrote:
>>>> On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 10:51:19 AM UTC+10, joseph cook wrote:
>>>>> On Saturday, July 22, 2023 at 8:21:14 PM UTC-4, George Tsambourakis wrote:
>>>>>> Out of curiosity. how many children did he have? I know Edmund, Constance and Richard of York. ALL with Isabela of Castile. But he was married twice No Children with Joan??? I also do ne see any illegitimated Children. No Mistresses.
>>>>> This should not be entirely surprising; Joan was married 4x without any known children from any of her spouses.
>>>>>
>>>>> Where have you looked to try and research this question so far? Being a child of a 14th century English Monarch, his life is not terribly obscure.
>>>>>
>>>>> --Joe C
>>>> I started researching in 1955. In the '80 I was a member of a small number of Invitation only research groups (Italy and Germany). Those days I was very active. These groups were infiltrated by "religious" individuals with their own agenda and were forced to close. I continued to communicate with others when this group was not part of Google. Than to many Porno stories and pictures appeared in this group and left. Byzantium, Italy and Balkans are my main interest. Last few years, I more and more persons, predominantly from Great Britain, claim to be descendants of the Royal family, so, I decided to review my records. I cover the Plantagenets from day 1, with geoffrey I, De Chateau-Landon, Count of Gastinois (970-100); well before the name existed. It is time to correct any misunderstandings from the '80 and '90
>>> A good place to start of questions of this sort is
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmund_of_Langley,_1st_Duke_of_York
>>>
>>> Often, we find extra children, even supposed children, of famous people, stuck into articles in WIkipedia
>>> Here we don't see that, just the three.
>> Thanks.
>> There are anomalies in the report.
>> The mother is mentioned as Philppa of Hainault. In the old days, she was known as Philippa d'Avesnes of Hainault, daughter of William "The Good" d'Avesnes, Count of Hainault and Joan of Valois. Philippa was born in Belgium 24 Jun 1311 and died in England 15 Aug 1369. But her birthday and place of birth are also disputed today.
>> Everything has changed. Now her grandfather was the last of d'Avesnes, the Counts of Hainault followed.
>> The boundaries keep changing.
> I did not mentioned that Philippas ancestors were firstly mentioned in Greece, they were Barons of Evia, also rulers of Athens, They moved to the Nederland's some 100 -150 years later, by marriage to "Flanders", etc etc.

Philippa's agnatic great-great-grandfather Bouchard of Avesnes (died
1244) was the first husband of Margaret II, countess of Flanders and
Hainaut. Their son Jean ruled Hainaut, and his namesake son was
Philippa's paternal grandfather.

The ancestors of Bouchard were certainly not "firstly mentioned in
Greece ... moved to the Netherlands": his agnatic line traced back to
Fastradus I of Oisy, who was advocate of Tournai in the mid-11th century
- well before the crusades carried any of his descendants towards the
Aegean.

Peter Stewart

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
www.avg.com

On Tuesday, July 25, 2023 at 9:22:43 AM UTC+10, Peter Stewart wrote:
> On 25-Jul-23 7:39 AM, George Tsambourakis wrote:
> > On Tuesday, July 25, 2023 at 7:28:01 AM UTC+10, George Tsambourakis wrote:
> >> On Tuesday, July 25, 2023 at 4:39:40 AM UTC+10, Will Johnson wrote:
> >>> On Saturday, July 22, 2023 at 6:46:31 PM UTC-7, George Tsambourakis wrote:
> >>>> On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 10:51:19 AM UTC+10, joseph cook wrote:
> >>>>> On Saturday, July 22, 2023 at 8:21:14 PM UTC-4, George Tsambourakis wrote:
> >>>>>> Out of curiosity. how many children did he have? I know Edmund, Constance and Richard of York. ALL with Isabela of Castile. But he was married twice No Children with Joan??? I also do ne see any illegitimated Children. No Mistresses.
> >>>>> This should not be entirely surprising; Joan was married 4x without any known children from any of her spouses.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Where have you looked to try and research this question so far? Being a child of a 14th century English Monarch, his life is not terribly obscure.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --Joe C
> >>>> I started researching in 1955. In the '80 I was a member of a small number of Invitation only research groups (Italy and Germany). Those days I was very active. These groups were infiltrated by "religious" individuals with their own agenda and were forced to close. I continued to communicate with others when this group was not part of Google. Than to many Porno stories and pictures appeared in this group and left. Byzantium, Italy and Balkans are my main interest. Last few years, I more and more persons, predominantly from Great Britain, claim to be descendants of the Royal family, so, I decided to review my records. I cover the Plantagenets from day 1, with geoffrey I, De Chateau-Landon, Count of Gastinois (970-100); well before the name existed. It is time to correct any misunderstandings from the '80 and '90
> >>> A good place to start of questions of this sort is
> >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmund_of_Langley,_1st_Duke_of_York
> >>>
> >>> Often, we find extra children, even supposed children, of famous people, stuck into articles in WIkipedia
> >>> Here we don't see that, just the three.
> >> Thanks.
> >> There are anomalies in the report.
> >> The mother is mentioned as Philppa of Hainault. In the old days, she was known as Philippa d'Avesnes of Hainault, daughter of William "The Good" d'Avesnes, Count of Hainault and Joan of Valois. Philippa was born in Belgium 24 Jun 1311 and died in England 15 Aug 1369. But her birthday and place of birth are also disputed today.
> >> Everything has changed. Now her grandfather was the last of d'Avesnes, the Counts of Hainault followed.
> >> The boundaries keep changing.
> > I did not mentioned that Philippas ancestors were firstly mentioned in Greece, they were Barons of Evia, also rulers of Athens, They moved to the Nederland's some 100 -150 years later, by marriage to "Flanders", etc etc.
> Philippa's agnatic great-great-grandfather Bouchard of Avesnes (died
> 1244) was the first husband of Margaret II, countess of Flanders and
> Hainaut. Their son Jean ruled Hainaut, and his namesake son was
> Philippa's paternal grandfather.
>
> The ancestors of Bouchard were certainly not "firstly mentioned in
> Greece ... moved to the Netherlands": his agnatic line traced back to
> Fastradus I of Oisy, who was advocate of Tournai in the mid-11th century
> - well before the crusades carried any of his descendants towards the
> Aegean.
>
> Peter Stewart
>
> --
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
> www.avg.com
Nicholas "Le Beau" d'Oisy married Mahau De La Roche. His son James d"avesnes was the Baron of Evia (Eubia) around 1170 married the Ameline of Guise. Well connected with the De La Roche of Athens. In fact although his father was known as d'Oisy Lord of Avesnes, his three children were the first ones to use "the name" d'Avesnes.
But does not really matter, your are the best. I am probably wrong,

On Monday, July 24, 2023 at 4:34:28 PM UTC-7, George Tsambourakis wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 25, 2023 at 9:22:43 AM UTC+10, Peter Stewart wrote:
> > On 25-Jul-23 7:39 AM, George Tsambourakis wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, July 25, 2023 at 7:28:01 AM UTC+10, George Tsambourakis wrote:
> > >> On Tuesday, July 25, 2023 at 4:39:40 AM UTC+10, Will Johnson wrote:
> > >>> On Saturday, July 22, 2023 at 6:46:31 PM UTC-7, George Tsambourakis wrote:
> > >>>> On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 10:51:19 AM UTC+10, joseph cook wrote:
> > >>>>> On Saturday, July 22, 2023 at 8:21:14 PM UTC-4, George Tsambourakis wrote:
> > >>>>>> Out of curiosity. how many children did he have? I know Edmund, Constance and Richard of York. ALL with Isabela of Castile. But he was married twice No Children with Joan??? I also do ne see any illegitimated Children. No Mistresses.
> > >>>>> This should not be entirely surprising; Joan was married 4x without any known children from any of her spouses.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Where have you looked to try and research this question so far? Being a child of a 14th century English Monarch, his life is not terribly obscure.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> --Joe C
> > >>>> I started researching in 1955. In the '80 I was a member of a small number of Invitation only research groups (Italy and Germany). Those days I was very active. These groups were infiltrated by "religious" individuals with their own agenda and were forced to close. I continued to communicate with others when this group was not part of Google. Than to many Porno stories and pictures appeared in this group and left. Byzantium, Italy and Balkans are my main interest. Last few years, I more and more persons, predominantly from Great Britain, claim to be descendants of the Royal family, so, I decided to review my records. I cover the Plantagenets from day 1, with geoffrey I, De Chateau-Landon, Count of Gastinois (970-100); well before the name existed. It is time to correct any misunderstandings from the '80 and '90
> > >>> A good place to start of questions of this sort is
> > >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmund_of_Langley,_1st_Duke_of_York
> > >>>
> > >>> Often, we find extra children, even supposed children, of famous people, stuck into articles in WIkipedia
> > >>> Here we don't see that, just the three.
> > >> Thanks.
> > >> There are anomalies in the report.
> > >> The mother is mentioned as Philppa of Hainault. In the old days, she was known as Philippa d'Avesnes of Hainault, daughter of William "The Good" d'Avesnes, Count of Hainault and Joan of Valois. Philippa was born in Belgium 24 Jun 1311 and died in England 15 Aug 1369. But her birthday and place of birth are also disputed today.
> > >> Everything has changed. Now her grandfather was the last of d'Avesnes, the Counts of Hainault followed.
> > >> The boundaries keep changing.
> > > I did not mentioned that Philippas ancestors were firstly mentioned in Greece, they were Barons of Evia, also rulers of Athens, They moved to the Nederland's some 100 -150 years later, by marriage to "Flanders", etc etc..
> > Philippa's agnatic great-great-grandfather Bouchard of Avesnes (died
> > 1244) was the first husband of Margaret II, countess of Flanders and
> > Hainaut. Their son Jean ruled Hainaut, and his namesake son was
> > Philippa's paternal grandfather.
> >
> > The ancestors of Bouchard were certainly not "firstly mentioned in
> > Greece ... moved to the Netherlands": his agnatic line traced back to
> > Fastradus I of Oisy, who was advocate of Tournai in the mid-11th century
> > - well before the crusades carried any of his descendants towards the
> > Aegean.
> >
> > Peter Stewart
> >
> > --
> > This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
> > www.avg.com
> Nicholas "Le Beau" d'Oisy married Mahau De La Roche. His son James d"avesnes was the Baron of Evia (Eubia) around 1170 married the Ameline of Guise. Well connected with the De La Roche of Athens. In fact although his father was known as d'Oisy Lord of Avesnes, his three children were the first ones to use "the name" d'Avesnes.
> But does not really matter, your are the best. I am probably wrong,

I wonder where you are getting these names
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_of_Avesnes

"James (also Jacques or Jacob; 1152 – 7 September 1191) was a son of Nicholas d'Oisy, Lord of Avesnes and Matilda de la Roche. He was the lord of Avesnes, Condé, and Leuze from 1171. "

On Monday, July 24, 2023 at 8:46:03 PM UTC-7, Will Johnson wrote:
> On Monday, July 24, 2023 at 4:34:28 PM UTC-7, George Tsambourakis wrote:
> > On Tuesday, July 25, 2023 at 9:22:43 AM UTC+10, Peter Stewart wrote:
> > > On 25-Jul-23 7:39 AM, George Tsambourakis wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday, July 25, 2023 at 7:28:01 AM UTC+10, George Tsambourakis wrote:
> > > >> On Tuesday, July 25, 2023 at 4:39:40 AM UTC+10, Will Johnson wrote:
> > > >>> On Saturday, July 22, 2023 at 6:46:31 PM UTC-7, George Tsambourakis wrote:
> > > >>>> On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 10:51:19 AM UTC+10, joseph cook wrote:
> > > >>>>> On Saturday, July 22, 2023 at 8:21:14 PM UTC-4, George Tsambourakis wrote:
> > > >>>>>> Out of curiosity. how many children did he have? I know Edmund, Constance and Richard of York. ALL with Isabela of Castile. But he was married twice No Children with Joan??? I also do ne see any illegitimated Children. No Mistresses.
> > > >>>>> This should not be entirely surprising; Joan was married 4x without any known children from any of her spouses.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Where have you looked to try and research this question so far? Being a child of a 14th century English Monarch, his life is not terribly obscure.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> --Joe C
> > > >>>> I started researching in 1955. In the '80 I was a member of a small number of Invitation only research groups (Italy and Germany). Those days I was very active. These groups were infiltrated by "religious" individuals with their own agenda and were forced to close. I continued to communicate with others when this group was not part of Google. Than to many Porno stories and pictures appeared in this group and left. Byzantium, Italy and Balkans are my main interest. Last few years, I more and more persons, predominantly from Great Britain, claim to be descendants of the Royal family, so, I decided to review my records. I cover the Plantagenets from day 1, with geoffrey I, De Chateau-Landon, Count of Gastinois (970-100); well before the name existed. It is time to correct any misunderstandings from the '80 and '90
> > > >>> A good place to start of questions of this sort is
> > > >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmund_of_Langley,_1st_Duke_of_York
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Often, we find extra children, even supposed children, of famous people, stuck into articles in WIkipedia
> > > >>> Here we don't see that, just the three.
> > > >> Thanks.
> > > >> There are anomalies in the report.
> > > >> The mother is mentioned as Philppa of Hainault. In the old days, she was known as Philippa d'Avesnes of Hainault, daughter of William "The Good" d'Avesnes, Count of Hainault and Joan of Valois. Philippa was born in Belgium 24 Jun 1311 and died in England 15 Aug 1369. But her birthday and place of birth are also disputed today.
> > > >> Everything has changed. Now her grandfather was the last of d'Avesnes, the Counts of Hainault followed.
> > > >> The boundaries keep changing.
> > > > I did not mentioned that Philippas ancestors were firstly mentioned in Greece, they were Barons of Evia, also rulers of Athens, They moved to the Nederland's some 100 -150 years later, by marriage to "Flanders", etc etc.
> > > Philippa's agnatic great-great-grandfather Bouchard of Avesnes (died
> > > 1244) was the first husband of Margaret II, countess of Flanders and
> > > Hainaut. Their son Jean ruled Hainaut, and his namesake son was
> > > Philippa's paternal grandfather.
> > >
> > > The ancestors of Bouchard were certainly not "firstly mentioned in
> > > Greece ... moved to the Netherlands": his agnatic line traced back to
> > > Fastradus I of Oisy, who was advocate of Tournai in the mid-11th century
> > > - well before the crusades carried any of his descendants towards the
> > > Aegean.
> > >
> > > Peter Stewart
> > >
> > > --
> > > This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
> > > www.avg.com
> > Nicholas "Le Beau" d'Oisy married Mahau De La Roche. His son James d"avesnes was the Baron of Evia (Eubia) around 1170 married the Ameline of Guise. Well connected with the De La Roche of Athens. In fact although his father was known as d'Oisy Lord of Avesnes, his three children were the first ones to use "the name" d'Avesnes.
> > But does not really matter, your are the best. I am probably wrong,
> I wonder where you are getting these names
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_of_Avesnes
>
> "James (also Jacques or Jacob; 1152 – 7 September 1191) was a son of Nicholas d'Oisy, Lord of Avesnes and Matilda de la Roche. He was the lord of Avesnes, Condé, and Leuze from 1171. "

You could try here:
http://genealogy.euweb.cz/flanders/flanders3.html

On Tuesday, July 25, 2023 at 1:46:03 PM UTC+10, Will Johnson wrote:
> On Monday, July 24, 2023 at 4:34:28 PM UTC-7, George Tsambourakis wrote:
> > On Tuesday, July 25, 2023 at 9:22:43 AM UTC+10, Peter Stewart wrote:
> > > On 25-Jul-23 7:39 AM, George Tsambourakis wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday, July 25, 2023 at 7:28:01 AM UTC+10, George Tsambourakis wrote:
> > > >> On Tuesday, July 25, 2023 at 4:39:40 AM UTC+10, Will Johnson wrote:
> > > >>> On Saturday, July 22, 2023 at 6:46:31 PM UTC-7, George Tsambourakis wrote:
> > > >>>> On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 10:51:19 AM UTC+10, joseph cook wrote:
> > > >>>>> On Saturday, July 22, 2023 at 8:21:14 PM UTC-4, George Tsambourakis wrote:
> > > >>>>>> Out of curiosity. how many children did he have? I know Edmund, Constance and Richard of York. ALL with Isabela of Castile. But he was married twice No Children with Joan??? I also do ne see any illegitimated Children. No Mistresses.
> > > >>>>> This should not be entirely surprising; Joan was married 4x without any known children from any of her spouses.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Where have you looked to try and research this question so far? Being a child of a 14th century English Monarch, his life is not terribly obscure.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> --Joe C
> > > >>>> I started researching in 1955. In the '80 I was a member of a small number of Invitation only research groups (Italy and Germany). Those days I was very active. These groups were infiltrated by "religious" individuals with their own agenda and were forced to close. I continued to communicate with others when this group was not part of Google. Than to many Porno stories and pictures appeared in this group and left. Byzantium, Italy and Balkans are my main interest. Last few years, I more and more persons, predominantly from Great Britain, claim to be descendants of the Royal family, so, I decided to review my records. I cover the Plantagenets from day 1, with geoffrey I, De Chateau-Landon, Count of Gastinois (970-100); well before the name existed. It is time to correct any misunderstandings from the '80 and '90
> > > >>> A good place to start of questions of this sort is
> > > >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmund_of_Langley,_1st_Duke_of_York
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Often, we find extra children, even supposed children, of famous people, stuck into articles in WIkipedia
> > > >>> Here we don't see that, just the three.
> > > >> Thanks.
> > > >> There are anomalies in the report.
> > > >> The mother is mentioned as Philppa of Hainault. In the old days, she was known as Philippa d'Avesnes of Hainault, daughter of William "The Good" d'Avesnes, Count of Hainault and Joan of Valois. Philippa was born in Belgium 24 Jun 1311 and died in England 15 Aug 1369. But her birthday and place of birth are also disputed today.
> > > >> Everything has changed. Now her grandfather was the last of d'Avesnes, the Counts of Hainault followed.
> > > >> The boundaries keep changing.
> > > > I did not mentioned that Philippas ancestors were firstly mentioned in Greece, they were Barons of Evia, also rulers of Athens, They moved to the Nederland's some 100 -150 years later, by marriage to "Flanders", etc etc.
> > > Philippa's agnatic great-great-grandfather Bouchard of Avesnes (died
> > > 1244) was the first husband of Margaret II, countess of Flanders and
> > > Hainaut. Their son Jean ruled Hainaut, and his namesake son was
> > > Philippa's paternal grandfather.
> > >
> > > The ancestors of Bouchard were certainly not "firstly mentioned in
> > > Greece ... moved to the Netherlands": his agnatic line traced back to
> > > Fastradus I of Oisy, who was advocate of Tournai in the mid-11th century
> > > - well before the crusades carried any of his descendants towards the
> > > Aegean.
> > >
> > > Peter Stewart
> > >
> > > --
> > > This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
> > > www.avg.com
> > Nicholas "Le Beau" d'Oisy married Mahau De La Roche. His son James d"avesnes was the Baron of Evia (Eubia) around 1170 married the Ameline of Guise. Well connected with the De La Roche of Athens. In fact although his father was known as d'Oisy Lord of Avesnes, his three children were the first ones to use "the name" d'Avesnes.
> > But does not really matter, your are the best. I am probably wrong,
> I wonder where you are getting these names
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_of_Avesnes
>
> "James (also Jacques or Jacob; 1152 – 7 September 1191) was a son of Nicholas d'Oisy, Lord of Avesnes and Matilda de la Roche. He was the lord of Avesnes, Condé, and Leuze from 1171. "
My data is from the 80's and 90's. Matilda de La Roche was known as "Mahaut de la Roche" those days and Adela was "Ameline". etc. He was in Greece. I don't dispute that he had other titles. But Baron of evia was one of his first ones, I can't say if the title was real or not but Evia was under the control of many European families. those days.

On 25-Jul-23 2:59 PM, George Tsambourakis wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 25, 2023 at 1:46:03 PM UTC+10, Will Johnson wrote:
>> On Monday, July 24, 2023 at 4:34:28 PM UTC-7, George Tsambourakis wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, July 25, 2023 at 9:22:43 AM UTC+10, Peter Stewart wrote:
>>>> On 25-Jul-23 7:39 AM, George Tsambourakis wrote:
>>>>> On Tuesday, July 25, 2023 at 7:28:01 AM UTC+10, George Tsambourakis wrote:
>>>>>> On Tuesday, July 25, 2023 at 4:39:40 AM UTC+10, Will Johnson wrote:
>>>>>>> On Saturday, July 22, 2023 at 6:46:31 PM UTC-7, George Tsambourakis wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 10:51:19 AM UTC+10, joseph cook wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, July 22, 2023 at 8:21:14 PM UTC-4, George Tsambourakis wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Out of curiosity. how many children did he have? I know Edmund, Constance and Richard of York. ALL with Isabela of Castile. But he was married twice No Children with Joan??? I also do ne see any illegitimated Children. No Mistresses.
>>>>>>>>> This should not be entirely surprising; Joan was married 4x without any known children from any of her spouses.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Where have you looked to try and research this question so far? Being a child of a 14th century English Monarch, his life is not terribly obscure.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --Joe C
>>>>>>>> I started researching in 1955. In the '80 I was a member of a small number of Invitation only research groups (Italy and Germany). Those days I was very active. These groups were infiltrated by "religious" individuals with their own agenda and were forced to close. I continued to communicate with others when this group was not part of Google. Than to many Porno stories and pictures appeared in this group and left. Byzantium, Italy and Balkans are my main interest. Last few years, I more and more persons, predominantly from Great Britain, claim to be descendants of the Royal family, so, I decided to review my records. I cover the Plantagenets from day 1, with geoffrey I, De Chateau-Landon, Count of Gastinois (970-100); well before the name existed. It is time to correct any misunderstandings from the '80 and '90
>>>>>>> A good place to start of questions of this sort is
>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmund_of_Langley,_1st_Duke_of_York
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Often, we find extra children, even supposed children, of famous people, stuck into articles in WIkipedia
>>>>>>> Here we don't see that, just the three.
>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>> There are anomalies in the report.
>>>>>> The mother is mentioned as Philppa of Hainault. In the old days, she was known as Philippa d'Avesnes of Hainault, daughter of William "The Good" d'Avesnes, Count of Hainault and Joan of Valois. Philippa was born in Belgium 24 Jun 1311 and died in England 15 Aug 1369. But her birthday and place of birth are also disputed today.
>>>>>> Everything has changed. Now her grandfather was the last of d'Avesnes, the Counts of Hainault followed.
>>>>>> The boundaries keep changing.
>>>>> I did not mentioned that Philippas ancestors were firstly mentioned in Greece, they were Barons of Evia, also rulers of Athens, They moved to the Nederland's some 100 -150 years later, by marriage to "Flanders", etc etc.
>>>> Philippa's agnatic great-great-grandfather Bouchard of Avesnes (died
>>>> 1244) was the first husband of Margaret II, countess of Flanders and
>>>> Hainaut. Their son Jean ruled Hainaut, and his namesake son was
>>>> Philippa's paternal grandfather.
>>>>
>>>> The ancestors of Bouchard were certainly not "firstly mentioned in
>>>> Greece ... moved to the Netherlands": his agnatic line traced back to
>>>> Fastradus I of Oisy, who was advocate of Tournai in the mid-11th century
>>>> - well before the crusades carried any of his descendants towards the
>>>> Aegean.
>>>>
>>>> Peter Stewart
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
>>>> www.avg.com
>>> Nicholas "Le Beau" d'Oisy married Mahau De La Roche. His son James d"avesnes was the Baron of Evia (Eubia) around 1170 married the Ameline of Guise. Well connected with the De La Roche of Athens. In fact although his father was known as d'Oisy Lord of Avesnes, his three children were the first ones to use "the name" d'Avesnes.
>>> But does not really matter, your are the best. I am probably wrong,
>> I wonder where you are getting these names
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_of_Avesnes
>>
>> "James (also Jacques or Jacob; 1152 – 7 September 1191) was a son of Nicholas d'Oisy, Lord of Avesnes and Matilda de la Roche. He was the lord of Avesnes, Condé, and Leuze from 1171."
> My data is from the 80's and 90's. Matilda de La Roche was known as "Mahaut de la Roche" those days and Adela was "Ameline". etc. He was in Greece. I don't dispute that he had other titles. But Baron of evia was one of his first ones, I can't say if the title was real or not but Evia was under the control of many European families. those days.

You are conflating two different men named Jacques d'Avesnes - the one
who married Amelina (aka Adelvia) of Guise was killed at Arsuf in
Palestine on 7 September 1191; he was seigneur of Avesnes, Condé and
Leuze, father of Philippa's great-great-grandfather Bouchard. His
namesake in Greece, who held a fief in Negroponte, was in the service of
Bonifacio of Montferrat when he was gravely wounded at the siege of
Corinth in the spring of 1205 - he is never heard of again and probably
died of his wounds before August of that year. His connection to the
seigneurial family in France is probable but uncertain.

Peter Stewart