Le lundi 15 juillet 1996 à 03:00:00 UTC-4, Todd A. Farmerie a écrit :
> In a previous article, jsar...@FIU.EDU (jms) says:
> >> 2. The first of the Braganzas (the original family, whose heiress passed
> >> the title to a younger son of the Portuguese royal family) is said to have
> >> kidnapped and forcibly married an armenian "princess" who had come on a
> >> pilgrimage to Santiago. She has been identified through a process of
> >> elimination with a particular armenian dynasty, and traced on back. (For
> >> what it's worth to all those Sancha de Ayala followers out there, I am
> >> relatively confident that she descended from the "princess".)
> >
> >hum, that sounds a bit far-fetched. who came up with this theory? is it
> >based on some historical facts? why armenian, exactly? could it have been
> >from cyprus or the latin orient instead?
> >
> The original statement appears in the earliest genealogical writings of
> Portugal, from a century or so after the fact, if I recall correctly. It
> specifically calls her armenian.
> >> The latter must be dismissed, since one can not expect even a near-
> >> contemporary portuguese source to correctly identify the rank of a
> >> kidnapped pilgrim from the other side of the world.
> >
> >i see. it sounds a little strange that they would come all the way from
> >armenia, and such an important person would have been mentioned by name in
> >chronicles, i would expect.
> >
> That they would come all the way from Armenia is not all that strange,
> since Santiago was one of the prefered sites of pilgrimage. That a
> princess would have been kidnapped without there being more press, that's
> another story.
> Todd

Hi group!
Does somebody know the origin of the Fortress of Lampron (Hethoumids) in Cilicia before the eleventh century?

On 25-Jul-23 10:42 AM, Micheline Lampron wrote:
> Le lundi 15 juillet 1996 à 03:00:00 UTC-4, Todd A. Farmerie a écrit :
>> In a previous article, jsar...@FIU.EDU (jms) says:
>>>> 2. The first of the Braganzas (the original family, whose heiress passed
>>>> the title to a younger son of the Portuguese royal family) is said to have
>>>> kidnapped and forcibly married an armenian "princess" who had come on a
>>>> pilgrimage to Santiago. She has been identified through a process of
>>>> elimination with a particular armenian dynasty, and traced on back. (For
>>>> what it's worth to all those Sancha de Ayala followers out there, I am
>>>> relatively confident that she descended from the "princess".)
>>>
>>> hum, that sounds a bit far-fetched. who came up with this theory? is it
>>> based on some historical facts? why armenian, exactly? could it have been
>> >from cyprus or the latin orient instead?
>>>
>> The original statement appears in the earliest genealogical writings of
>> Portugal, from a century or so after the fact, if I recall correctly. It
>> specifically calls her armenian.
>>>> The latter must be dismissed, since one can not expect even a near-
>>>> contemporary portuguese source to correctly identify the rank of a
>>>> kidnapped pilgrim from the other side of the world.
>>>
>>> i see. it sounds a little strange that they would come all the way from
>>> armenia, and such an important person would have been mentioned by name in
>>> chronicles, i would expect.
>>>
>> That they would come all the way from Armenia is not all that strange,
>> since Santiago was one of the prefered sites of pilgrimage. That a
>> princess would have been kidnapped without there being more press, that's
>> another story.
>> Todd
>
> Hi group!
> Does somebody know the origin of the Fortress of Lampron (Hethoumids) in Cilicia before the eleventh century?

I don't think any detailed history has been - or perhaps could be -
compiled: it was an old Byzantine stronghold in the Taurus mountains,
considered impregnable, that enters continuous history after it was
granted by Abulgharib Arsruni, governor of Tarsus, to his commander
Oshin of Gandzak, ancestor of the Cilician Hethoumids, in the 1070s.

Peter Stewart

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