Hello,

I'm wondering if anyone here can provide further clarification regarding a phrase I encountered recently. That being "föddk aff Syskynna" (in what I think is 15th century Norwegian or Swedish) or "fødte af Sødskende" (in 18th century Danish).

I believe the term itself means "born of siblings" (that is, cousins, literally first cousins). What I want to know is whether the phrase pertains only to first cousins or if usage extends to more distant relatives. This is because I saw the term being used to describe individuals who would have been, at best, second cousins (namely Count Gerhard VI of Holstein, duke of Schleswig, and Ingeborg, daughter of King Valdemar IV of Denmark).

In a sense, I'm trying to determine whether the source (a letter written to or from the Norwegian privy council in 1449) was mistaken, using "fföddå aff syskenna" in a non-literal sense, or was deliberately misrepresenting the relationship. The latter interpretation is favored by the author of this: https://www.google.ca/books/edition/Skrifter_som_udi_det_Ki%C3%B8benhavske_Selsk/5g4_AAAAYAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=0 (which is where source in question is quoted, but the commentary is too old to take at face-value).

Jean

On Tuesday, July 25, 2023 at 5:11:04 PM UTC-4, Jean de Huit wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I'm wondering if anyone here can provide further clarification regarding a phrase I encountered recently. That being "föddk aff Syskynna" (in what I think is 15th century Norwegian or Swedish) or "fødte af Sødskende" (in 18th century Danish).
>
> I believe the term itself means "born of siblings" (that is, cousins, literally first cousins). What I want to know is whether the phrase pertains only to first cousins or if usage extends to more distant relatives. This is because I saw the term being used to describe individuals who would have been, at best, second cousins (namely Count Gerhard VI of Holstein, duke of Schleswig, and Ingeborg, daughter of King Valdemar IV of Denmark).
>
> In a sense, I'm trying to determine whether the source (a letter written to or from the Norwegian privy council in 1449) was mistaken, using "fföddå aff syskenna" in a non-literal sense, or was deliberately misrepresenting the relationship. The latter interpretation is favored by the author of this: https://www.google.ca/books/edition/Skrifter_som_udi_det_Ki%C3%B8benhavske_Selsk/5g4_AAAAYAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=0 (which is where source in question is quoted, but the commentary is too old to take at face-value).
>
> Jean

Of course, "siblings" usually means two children of the same parent or parents, i.e., brothers and sisters.

On Tuesday, July 25, 2023 at 5:15:52 PM UTC-4, Johnny Brananas wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 25, 2023 at 5:11:04 PM UTC-4, Jean de Huit wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > I'm wondering if anyone here can provide further clarification regarding a phrase I encountered recently. That being "föddk aff Syskynna" (in what I think is 15th century Norwegian or Swedish) or "fødte af Sødskende" (in 18th century Danish).
> >
> > I believe the term itself means "born of siblings" (that is, cousins, literally first cousins). What I want to know is whether the phrase pertains only to first cousins or if usage extends to more distant relatives. This is because I saw the term being used to describe individuals who would have been, at best, second cousins (namely Count Gerhard VI of Holstein, duke of Schleswig, and Ingeborg, daughter of King Valdemar IV of Denmark).
> >
> > In a sense, I'm trying to determine whether the source (a letter written to or from the Norwegian privy council in 1449) was mistaken, using "fföddå aff syskenna" in a non-literal sense, or was deliberately misrepresenting the relationship. The latter interpretation is favored by the author of this: https://www.google.ca/books/edition/Skrifter_som_udi_det_Ki%C3%B8benhavske_Selsk/5g4_AAAAYAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=0 (which is where source in question is quoted, but the commentary is too old to take at face-value).
> >
> > Jean
> Of course, "siblings" usually means two children of the same parent or parents, i.e., brothers and sisters.

Right, the idea is that the phrase means "born [to a pair] of siblings," but is being used to describe people who were not siblings and whose parents were not siblings. Their grandparents were siblings, but this is not the literal meaning of the word, hence the question about common usage.