On Friday, 15 February 2013 at 21:14:59 UTC, John Watson wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> A couple of weeks ago when I worked out that Margaret Skipwith, wife
> of Robert Constable of Flamborough was the daughter of John Skipwith
> and Alice Tilney, I wanted to know who were Alice Tilney's parents and
> ancestors and started searching on the internet. What I found was
> confusing and inconsistent and I decided to start from scratch and
> find every contemporary Tilney record available to me; fine rolls,
> patent rolls, etc. plus whatever was available on the TNA website,
> largely ignoring published pedigrees and secondary works. Below are
> the results for the main line. Of course there were other sons, but
> where they fit into the family is difficult to say from the few
> records I was able to find.
>
> Frederick Tilney of Boston
> The first of this family of any note was Frederick Tilney. His
> forebears probably originated in the village of Tilney, Norfolk. He
> may have been the son of a John de Tilney who occurs in the subsidy
> rolls for Boston in 1333 (Thompson, 374). In 1342, a John Tilney is
> mentioned in the Close Rolls as a collector of wool in Lincoln (CCR,
> Ed. 3, vi, 537), some of those in the same record were merchants of
> Boston. Frederick de Tilney of Boston, merchant, was a member of the
> Corpus Christi Guild of Boston in 1349, (Thompson, 374) which I think
> would place his birth date some time between 1320 and 1330. The first
> official record I can find of him is in January 1359, when William de
> Spayne and Frederick de Tylneye were elected as collectors of customs
> in the town and port of Boston (CPR, Ed. 3, xi, 320). In July 1360
> they delivered 240 pounds into the exchequer (CCR, Ed. 3, xi, 45) and
> in August 1360 they were requested to purvey 4,000 stokfissh, called
> 'winterfissh' to Southampton for the royal household (CPR, Ed. 3, xi,
> 453). In February 1363, Frederick was appointed collector of customs
> in Boston and places along the coast between Grimsby, Lincolnshire and
> Blakeney, Nofolk (CFR, vii, 252). In 1369, the staple of Lincoln was
> transferred to Boston and Frederic de Tilney was the first mayor of
> the staple (VCH Lincs, ii, 320). In October 1372 Frederick de Tylneye
> and William de Spaigne were again appointed as collectors of customs
> and duties on wool, hides and cloth in the ports near Boston (CFR,
> viii, 187).
>
> Between November 1363 and December 1377 Frederick served on several
> commissions of wallis and fossatis, commissions of the peace and a
> commission of oyer and terminer in Lincolnshire usually in the company
> of William de Spaigne [CPR]. From September 1372 to May 1378,
> Frederick Tilney appears in various records of property transactions
> in Boston and the manor of Thetford in Norfolk. In June 1376 Frederick
> de Tilney of Boston appointed his son Philip de Tilney to deliver
> seisin of the manor of Thetford to trustees (DD/4P/4/12). In November
> 1377 he was appointed deputy butler in Boston (CPR, Ric. 2, i, 67).
> The last record I can find of him is in 1378 and I assume that he died
> some time shortly afterwards. Despite numerous references in secondary
> works calling him Sir Frederick Tilney I have been unable to find any
> contemporary record where he is called a knight.
>
> He left a widow Margery, a son Philip, later knighted, possibly a son
> John who was a priest, and a daughter Alice who married John Skipwith.
> Thompson (p. 117) mentions a son called Frederick, but there are no
> contemporary records of this Frederick.
>
> Philip Tilney
> Sir Philip Tilney, son of Frederick and Margery appears in property
> records together with his father in 1376 and 1378, and was probably
> born some time between 1345 and 1355. He married, around 1378-80,
> Grace daughter of John son of Richard de Roos (de Ros) of Ringborough,
> Holderness, Yorkshire and Tydd St. Mary, Lincolnshire. Grace appears
> to have been the sole heiress of her father. After their marriage,
> Philip was holding her lands in Lincolnshire and Yorkshire and was
> eligible for knighthood.
>
> Philip de Tinley was appointed sheriff of Cambridgeshire and
> Huntingdonshire and keeper of the castle of Cambridge on 1 November
> 1383 (CFR, x, 7) and sheriff of Lincolnshire on 18 November 1386 (CFR,
> x, 151). He was knighted some time between 26 April and 22 November
> 1385 (CPR, Ric. 2, ii, 588 and CCR Ric. 2, iii, 95). He was on a
> commission to array men-at-arm in Lincolnshire in April 1385 (CPR,
> Ric. 2, ii, 588) and served as one of the knights of the shire for
> Lincolnshire in the Parliaments of 1385, 1388 (twice) and 1390 (CCR,
> Ric. 2, iii, 119, 494, 656 & iv, 178). He served on numerous
> commissions, mostly in Lincolnshire between 1385 and 1393 (CPR).
>
> Philip was alderman of the guild of Corpus Christi in Boston in 1387
> and 1388 (Thompson, 117) and in September 1392, he had a licence to
> form the fraternity of St. Mary in Boston together with Sir William de
> Spaigne (CPR, Ric. 2, v, 192, 195). In the following year his mother,
> Margery, late the wife of Frederic de Tylneye had licence for the
> alienation in mortmain of property in Boston to the alderman and
> brethren of the fraternity of St. Mary, Boston (CPR, Ric. 2, v, 217).
> In May 1392, Philip de Tilneye of Boston, knight had licence to
> alienate in mortmain property near Boston to John Rocheford alderman,
> and the brethren and sisters of the guild of Corpus Christi, Boston
> (CPR, Ric 2, v, 68). In the following month he was one of those
> licenced to alienate in mortmain the manor and advowson of Histon, to
> the abbess and convent of Denney, Cambridgeshire (CPR, Ric. 2, v, 74).
> On 25 January 1393, Philip de Tilney, knight, nobleman, and Grace his
> wife, noblewoman, of the diocese of Lincoln had a papal indult to
> choose their confessors (Cal. Pap. Reg, iv, 495).
>
> The will of Philip de Tylney of Tydd, is dated at Tydd, on 4 April
> 1394. He wished to be buried in the churchyard of St. Botulph
> [Boston]. He mentions sons Frederic and John and appoints as executors
> Margery his mother, Grace his wife, John Stransale rector of St.
> Botulph, Roger Welby of Multon, John Holinton and Henry Eston of St.
> Botulph (Early Linc. Wills, 83).
>
> Philip may also have had a daughter Margaret who was a member of the
> guild of Corpus Christi, Boston (Thompson, 178).
>
> In April 1398 Margery de Tylney and Grace de Tylney, of the diocese of
> Lincoln, noble women had indults to enter as often as they please,
> with six honest matrons, the monastery of enclosed nuns of the order
> of St. Clare, Denney, in the diocese of Ely (Cal. Pap. Reg., v, 91).
> In February 1398, Margaret (sic) de Tylney, relict of Frederic de
> Tylney, of Boston and Grace de Tylney, noble woman, relict of Philip
> Tylney, of Boston had papal indults to choose a confessor (Cal. Pap.
> Reg., v, 233-4). Margery was dead before 1415, when her granddaughter,
> Margaret Skipwith, widow of Robert Constable of Flamborough leaves 5
> marks in her will to find a chaplain to pray in the gallery of lady
> Margery de Tilney within the parish church of Boston (Test. Ebor. i,
> 362). Margaret also leaves a bequest to Grace Tilney who was still
> living in 1415.
>
> Frederick Tilney
> Frederick Tilney, son and heir of Sir Philip Tilney and Grace Roos,
> was a minor at the death of his father and probably born about 1380.
> Before 29 September 1394 he was married to Margaret, daughter of John
> de Rochford of Boston (DD/4P/4/15). From the pleadings given in a
> complicated and long-running legal case concerning the manor of
> Darlaston, near Wolverhampton, Staffordshire in 9 Henry VI (1430-1432)
> it appears that Margaret, then widow of Frederick Tilney, was one of
> the three daughters of Sir John Rochford and that her mother was Joan
> daughter of Sir Roger Hillary (d. 1356) (Coll. Hist. Staffs., xvii,
> 135).
>
> Frederick makes almost no appearances in any official records so it is
> difficult to say much about him. In April 1406 he was one of the
> mainpermors for John Rochefort knight, that he shall do or procure no
> hurt or harm to Robert Kervylle (CCR, Hen. 4, iii, 115). He was dead
> before May 1421, when Margaret is described as his widow in a legal
> case (Coll. Hist. Staffs., xvii, 78). I can find no contemporary
> records where Frederick is called a knight.
>
> In August 1434 Ralph Rochford and Margaret wife of the late Frederic,
> son of Philip Tilney, knight demised the manor of Thetford to John
> Odham of Tydd St. Mary, chaplain (DD/4P/4/19).
>
> Frederick and Margaret had at least one son, Philip.
>
> Philip Tilney.
> Philip son of Frederick Tilney and Margaret Rochford was probably born
> about 1400. Philip is described as 'gentilman' of Lincolnshire in 1425
> (CCR, Hen. 6, i, 257) and occurs as Philip Tylney of Boston in
> December 1437 (CCR, Hen. 6, iii, 144). He married Isabel, daughter of
> Sir Edmund Thorpe. Isabel died on 10 November 1436 according to her
> monumental inscription in Ashwellthorpe church (McLeod, 25). On 7
> November 1437, Philip Tylney was appointed as sheriff of Lincolnshire
> (CFR, xvii, 3, 42). Philip later became a secular canon of Lincoln
> Cathedral and died in October 1453, and was buried in Lincoln
> cathedral (McLeod, 25-6). His writ of diem clausit extremum issued on
> 5 November 1453 describes him as Philip Tylney, clerk, so I doubt that
> he was a knight (CFR, ixx, 54).
>
> Frederick Tilney
> Frederick son and heir of Philip Tilney and Isabel Thorpe was probably
> born about 1420. Frederick married Elizabeth, daughter of Lawrence
> Cheyne of Ditton Cambridgeshire (CP, 12/1, 725). He was dead before 1
> December 1446, when Elizabeth was married to John Say yeoman of the
> crown (CCR, Hen. 6, iv, 442).
>
> Elizabeth Tilney
> Elizabeth, only daughter of Frederick Tilney and Elizabeth Cheyne was
> probably born about 1442. She married firstly, Sir Humphrey Bourchier
> (son and heir apparent of Sir John Bourchier [Lord Berners]), who died
> v.p., being slain at Barnet, on 14 April 1471. She married secondly,
> as his first wife, on 30 April 1472, Thomas (Howard) later Earl of
> Surrey and Duke of Norfolk (CP, 12/1, 725). She died as Countess of
> Surrey on 4 April 1497 (CIPM, Hen. 7, ii, 22, No. 18).
>
> Regards,
>
> John
>
> References:
> Calendars of Patent Rolls, Close Rolls, Fine Rolls, Papal Registers,
> etc.
> Pishey Thompson, History and Antiquities of Boston (1856)
> Ronald F. McLeod, Massingham Parva, Past and Present (London: 1882)
> Nottinghamshire Archives, Portland of Welbeck (4th Deposit): Estate
> Papers [DD/4P/4/1 to 19]
> Complete Peerage, Vol. 12/1, p. 725

This may have occurred in the archives already but it bears repeating that Margery Rochford who married Frederick /Tilney/ of Boston, co Linc; Knt, was herself the Co-heiress of her father; "30 years" old 1422

http://books.google.com/books?id=HS8EAAAAIAAJ&ots=vMXZmoyIHL&dq=frederick%20tilney%20margaret%20rochford&pg=PA288#v=onepage&q=tilney&f=false

IPM of Alice Dorlaston, Staffordhsire Writ 12 October 1422:

"The kin and heirs of Roger Hillary, knight, are Elizabeth Lady de Clynton, daughter of Elizabeth, one of his daughters and heirs; Margery who was the wife of Fraticius Tylney and one of the daughters and heirs of John Rocheford, knight, son of Joan the other daughter and heir of Roger Hillary; Elizabeth Gibthorp, daughter of John son of Alice second daughter and heir of John Rocheford; and Margaret Roos, daughter of Joan, third daughter and heir of John Rocheford. Elizabeth Lady Clinton is aged 60 years, Margery 30 years, Elizabeth 1 1/2 years and Margaret 6 years."