On Thursday, November 7, 2019 at 12:43:49 AM UTC-5, Nathan Murphy wrote:
> > William Warren’s youngest son, Thomas Warren, was in line to inherit half of his father’s lands in Kent “in the nature and tenure of gavelkind.” William died a lunatic, intestate, in about 1636.[6] In 1647, William’s younger brother, John Warren, Gentleman, of Gray’s Inn, Middlesex sued William’s eldest son and heir, Albertus Warren, over a bond, in chancery. In this suit, it is recorded that William’s only other son was Thomas Warren and that “About a year and a half ago the said Thomas Warren departed this life without any issue of his body lawfully begotten.”[7] In 1658, Albertus Warren again informs the Lord Chancellor of England that he is the “brother and heir of Thomas Warren, late the other son and co-heir of the said William Warren.”[8]
> A descendant of the Warren family of Ripple, Kent may have indeed come to colonial Virginia. A slaveowner named Albertus Warren was buried in Bruton Parish, James City County, Virginia in 1703, see: http://heritagecenter.brutonparish.org/book/bruton-middleton-parish-register-1662-1797/bruton-middleton-parish-register-1662-1797-page-124
>
> The given name “Albertus” is so uncommon, it could represent a naming-pattern. The references below apply to multiple people named Albertus Warren. Albertus of Epping, Essex (1640s-1650) could be the same Albertus baptized at Ripple, Kent in 1622. Albertus doesn’t appear in Ripple, Kent parish register entries as an adult, but we know from the chancery proceedings that he reached adulthood. There were no Warrens at Ripple at the time of the 1664 hearth tax.
>
> Currer-Briggs argued that Albertus’s mother Katherine remarried John Sewall at London St Mary at Hill in 1632, and settled in Halstead, Essex.[1] He found that John Sewall, gent., of Halstead left a PCC will in 1640, which includes the following bequest: £100 unto Marie Warren daughter unto Katherine Sewall my late wife deceased at age 18. I would add that an Albertus Warren, gent., refused to do highway work in Halstead in 1663. The name Albertus Warren is also recorded on the 1670 hearth tax in Halstead.. (see below)
>
> 1622 Apr 22, Parish Register, Ripple, Kent, Albertus the sonne of William Warren gent[leman] was baptised Aprill 22th 1622
>
> 1641 May 09, Parish Register, London St Mary Ludgate, Albertus Warren m. Lucey Waller, license Faculties - there was a George Waller in chancery suit
>
> 1642, Parish Register, Sawbridgeworth, Herts, Luce Warren d/o Alberte & Luce bp.
>
> 1643, Parish Register, Epping, Essex, Albertus Warren s/o Albertus & Lucy bp.
>
> 1645, Parish Register, Epping, Essex, Albertus Warren s/o Albertus bur.
>
> 1645, Chancery, C8/126/240, Albertus Warren vs. John Browne, property in Alkham, Kent. Browne states he was not aware that John Warren who was seised of this land in 1613, had a son William Warren, nor that William Warren was a lunatic.
>
> 1646 Jun 03, Parish Register, Epping, Essex, Albertus Warren s/o Albertus & Lucye bp. (born 1 Jun 1646)
>
> 1646 Jun 03, Parish Register, Epping, Essex, John Warren s/o Albertus & Lucye bp. (born 1 Jun 1646)
>
> 1647, Chancery, C8/125/201, John Warren, of Gray’s Inn, Mdx, gent.. vs. Albert Warren and George Waller, property in Ripple, Kent; William Warren,late of Riple, Kent, in his lifetime was indebted to s’d John Warren. William Warren in his lifetime married Katherine Gookin, daughter of Thomas Gookin Esq. William died about 11th year Chas I., had only two sons at time of his death: Albert Warren, eldest, and Thomas Warren, youngest. Albert turned 21 after 1 Apr 21 Chas I. A year-and-a-half ago Thomas Warren died without issue.
>
> 1647, Author, A just vindication of the armie wherein all that doubt may have large satisfaction, in relation to their late proceedings. As touching the cause, beginning, continuance, and their end therein. Or, a book entituled, The examination of the late passages of the armie (especially of the grounds laid down for their justification in their declaration, June 14. 1647). / Examined, refuted, by A. Warren
>
> 1650 Oct 12, Parish Register, London St Mary Woolnoth, lawfully married Albertus Warren and Dorothy Barton both of the parishe of Eppinge in the County of Essex
>
> 1650, Author, The Royalist Reform’d (London, 1650)
>
> 1653, Author, Eight reasons categorical: wherein is examined and proved, that it's probable, the law-common will stand. And continue at London & Westminster: humbly tendred to the consideration of all ingenuous men; and for the incouragement of students. By Albertus Warren Gent. (London: Printed by E. Cotes, for John Place at Furnivals Inne-Gate in Holborn, 1653).
>
> 1654, Author, A New Plea for the Old Law by Albertus Warren (London 1654)
>
> 1657, Chancery, C7/443/126, Albertus Warren vs. Sir Robert Crawford, kt., money, Kent
>
> 1658, Chancery, Bundle 34, No. 65, Albertus Warren vs. John Warren, 1658, money, Kent. Albertus son of William Warren. William also had a son Thomas Warren “late the other son and co-heir.” Albertus was Thomas’s heir. Regarding a bond between William Warren and John Warren dated 1628.
>
> 1663, Sessions Rolls, Essex, Return of all such persons as have refused to work in the highways of Halstead this year 1663 … Albert Warren gent.
>
> 1670, Hearth Tax, Halstead, Essex, Albertus Warren [Sewall, whom Currer-Briggs thought married William Warren’s widow; lived at Halstead when he left his will.]
>
> 1676, Town Depositions, Albertus Warren
>
> 1676, Town Depositions, Albertus Warren
>
> 1677 Aug 02, Gunmaker’s Company apprenticeships, Charles Warren son of Albert Warren, of London, gent. to Robert Brookes, Gunmakers’ Co. Free 1684. Active 1690-1694. Gunmaker to Ordnance, 1697.
>
> 1680, Town Depositions, Albertus Warren
>
> 1680, Town Depositions, Albertus Warren
>
> 1680, Author, An Apology for the Discovery of Humane Reason, Written by Mr. Clifford, Esq. by Albertus Warren (London, 1680). [Albertus described as a radical protestant]
>
> 1686, Author, A panegyrick to His Excellency Richard Earl of Tirconnell by Albertus Warren (Dublin, 1686)
>
> 1703 Apr 25, Parish Register, Bruton Par., Va., Albertus Warren dec’d ye twenty fifth Apr bur.
>
> 1709[/10?], Order for Arrest, Bruton Par., Va., Angola peter at the plantac[i]on late of Albertus Warren Pamba his wife [ordered to be arrested]
>
> I haven’t been able to access this article to see if biographical information is provided:
>
> Albertus Warren on Milton and toleration: An unnoticed allusion, Notes and Queries, Vol. 46, No. 3 (1999):335-356.
> [1] Currer-Briggs conclusions discussed in J.O. Buck, A.E. Langston, and T.F. Beard, eds., Pedigrees of Some of the Emperor Charlemagne’s Descendants 3 (1978):308-311.

The Albertus who died in 1702-1703 was likely a son of Thomas. Thomas had a son named Albertus with Elizabeth Spencer. He is noted in the tithables in Surry in 1680. After which he likely moved elsewhere.

> The Albertus who died in 1702-1703 was likely a son of Thomas. Thomas had a son named Albertus with Elizabeth Spencer. He is noted in the tithables in Surry in 1680. After which he likely moved elsewhere.

Thanks for sharing. Details of the entry:

"Surry County May ye 28th 1680. A list of Tithables taken by Capt. Cha: Barham being p[ar]te of ye parish of Lawnes Creeke

"Cha. Amry, Albertas Warren, Wm. Cockram, Jno. Mathison, Tho: Beck, Jno. Tuckwell, 6 tithes."

Source: Edgar MacDonald and Richard Slatten, "Surry County Tithables 1680, 1681, 1682," Magazine of Virginia Genealogy 22:4 (Nov. 1984), 47 https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/6131/images/VGS_1984_01_01_0227?pId=515933411

Thomas Warren's sons Thomas and Allen were in a different tithe district that year:

"A List of Tithables taken by order of Cort May ye 22th 1680

"Samll. Plow, Tho: & Alling [Allen?] Warring [Warren?], 3 tithes.

Source: ditto, 49.

Interpretation: Albertas Warren was working for Charles Amry in 1680. Because he was a tithe, Albertas was age 16 or older, born no later than 1664. Albertas was living in the same county as Thomas's children, but in differing tithe districts. I haven't seen a source that states Albertas was Thomas's son. Edward what is your evidence for that conclusion?

Nathan

On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 8:24:49 PM UTC-4, Nathan Murphy wrote:
> > The Albertus who died in 1702-1703 was likely a son of Thomas. Thomas had a son named Albertus with Elizabeth Spencer. He is noted in the tithables in Surry in 1680. After which he likely moved elsewhere.
> Thanks for sharing. Details of the entry:
>
> "Surry County May ye 28th 1680. A list of Tithables taken by Capt. Cha: Barham being p[ar]te of ye parish of Lawnes Creeke
>
> "Cha. Amry, Albertas Warren, Wm. Cockram, Jno. Mathison, Tho: Beck, Jno. Tuckwell, 6 tithes."
>
> Source: Edgar MacDonald and Richard Slatten, "Surry County Tithables 1680, 1681, 1682," Magazine of Virginia Genealogy 22:4 (Nov. 1984), 47 https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/6131/images/VGS_1984_01_01_0227?pId=515933411
>
> Thomas Warren's sons Thomas and Allen were in a different tithe district that year:
>
> "A List of Tithables taken by order of Cort May ye 22th 1680
>
> "Samll. Plow, Tho: & Alling [Allen?] Warring [Warren?], 3 tithes.
>
> Source: ditto, 49.
>
> Interpretation: Albertas Warren was working for Charles Amry in 1680. Because he was a tithe, Albertas was age 16 or older, born no later than 1664. Albertas was living in the same county as Thomas's children, but in differing tithe districts. I haven't seen a source that states Albertas was Thomas's son. Edward what is your evidence for that conclusion?
>
> Nathan

New evidence suggests that Albertus Warren was likely a full brother to Elizabeth Warren wife of John Hunnicut.
Albertus has never been noted as a son of Thomas in any records. Yet his assumed father Willam did have another son of said name.
An Albertus appears in tithables in 1680, with William Cockerham a relative of the Spencers. He is not Allen like previously suggested as he appears with his father Thomas in the same year. He disappears right after 1680.
William Cockerham was the brother-in-law of Elizabeth Spencer mother of Elizabeth Warren.
Albertus Warren decd. the twenty-fifth Apr 1703 bur. Bruton & Middleton Parish Register 1662-1797 - Page 124
The will of William Sr lists personal property in 3 locations in 1718. Surry, Three Creeks in South Hampton, and York County
Isle of Wight notes John Hunnicut and Albertus Warren in a record circa 1690s

On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 8:24:49 PM UTC-4, Nathan Murphy wrote:
> > The Albertus who died in 1702-1703 was likely a son of Thomas. Thomas had a son named Albertus with Elizabeth Spencer. He is noted in the tithables in Surry in 1680. After which he likely moved elsewhere.
> Thanks for sharing. Details of the entry:
>
> "Surry County May ye 28th 1680. A list of Tithables taken by Capt. Cha: Barham being p[ar]te of ye parish of Lawnes Creeke
>
> "Cha. Amry, Albertas Warren, Wm. Cockram, Jno. Mathison, Tho: Beck, Jno. Tuckwell, 6 tithes."
>
> Source: Edgar MacDonald and Richard Slatten, "Surry County Tithables 1680, 1681, 1682," Magazine of Virginia Genealogy 22:4 (Nov. 1984), 47 https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/6131/images/VGS_1984_01_01_0227?pId=515933411
>
> Thomas Warren's sons Thomas and Allen were in a different tithe district that year:
>
> "A List of Tithables taken by order of Cort May ye 22th 1680
>
> "Samll. Plow, Tho: & Alling [Allen?] Warring [Warren?], 3 tithes.
>
> Source: ditto, 49.
>
> Interpretation: Albertas Warren was working for Charles Amry in 1680. Because he was a tithe, Albertas was age 16 or older, born no later than 1664. Albertas was living in the same county as Thomas's children, but in differing tithe districts. I haven't seen a source that states Albertas was Thomas's son. Edward what is your evidence for that conclusion?
>
> Nathan

On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 11:17:39 PM UTC-4, Edward Brown wrote:
> On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 8:24:49 PM UTC-4, Nathan Murphy wrote:
> > > The Albertus who died in 1702-1703 was likely a son of Thomas. Thomas had a son named Albertus with Elizabeth Spencer. He is noted in the tithables in Surry in 1680. After which he likely moved elsewhere.
> > Thanks for sharing. Details of the entry:
> >
> > "Surry County May ye 28th 1680. A list of Tithables taken by Capt. Cha: Barham being p[ar]te of ye parish of Lawnes Creeke
> >
> > "Cha. Amry, Albertas Warren, Wm. Cockram, Jno. Mathison, Tho: Beck, Jno.. Tuckwell, 6 tithes."
> >
> > Source: Edgar MacDonald and Richard Slatten, "Surry County Tithables 1680, 1681, 1682," Magazine of Virginia Genealogy 22:4 (Nov. 1984), 47 https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/6131/images/VGS_1984_01_01_0227?pId=515933411
> >
> > Thomas Warren's sons Thomas and Allen were in a different tithe district that year:
> >
> > "A List of Tithables taken by order of Cort May ye 22th 1680
> >
> > "Samll. Plow, Tho: & Alling [Allen?] Warring [Warren?], 3 tithes.
> >
> > Source: ditto, 49.
> >
> > Interpretation: Albertas Warren was working for Charles Amry in 1680. Because he was a tithe, Albertas was age 16 or older, born no later than 1664. Albertas was living in the same county as Thomas's children, but in differing tithe districts. I haven't seen a source that states Albertas was Thomas's son. Edward what is your evidence for that conclusion?
> >
> > Nathan
> New evidence suggests that Albertus Warren was likely a full brother to Elizabeth Warren wife of John Hunnicut.
> Albertus has never been noted as a son of Thomas in any records. Yet his assumed father Willam did have another son of said name.
> An Albertus appears in tithables in 1680, with William Cockerham a relative of the Spencers. He is not Allen like previously suggested as he appears with his father Thomas in the same year. He disappears right after 1680.
> William Cockerham was the brother-in-law of Elizabeth Spencer mother of Elizabeth Warren.
> Albertus Warren decd. the twenty-fifth Apr 1703 bur. Bruton & Middleton Parish Register 1662-1797 - Page 124
> The will of William Hunnicut lists personal property in 3 locations in 1718. Surry, Three Creeks in South Hampton, and York County
> Isle of Wight notes John Hunnicut and Albertus Warren in a record circa 1690s
>William Cockerman died May 13 1669 Robert Sheppard was appointed guardian for his two orphan sons, after the death of their mother (1669)

Charles Army was the stepfather of William Cockerham 2 in this tithable.

His father William Cockerham 1 was the brother-in-law of Elizabeth Spencer when he died his widow Ann Spencer married Charles Amry. Elizabeth Spencer was the third wife of Thomas she was previously married to Robert Shepard. the mother of Elizabeth Warren who married John Hunnicutt.

On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 11:28:29 PM UTC-4, Edward Brown wrote:
> On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 11:17:39 PM UTC-4, Edward Brown wrote:
> > On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 8:24:49 PM UTC-4, Nathan Murphy wrote:
> > > > The Albertus who died in 1702-1703 was likely a son of Thomas. Thomas had a son named Albertus with Elizabeth Spencer. He is noted in the tithables in Surry in 1680. After which he likely moved elsewhere.
> > > Thanks for sharing. Details of the entry:
> > >
> > > "Surry County May ye 28th 1680. A list of Tithables taken by Capt. Cha: Barham being p[ar]te of ye parish of Lawnes Creeke
> > >
> > > "Cha. Amry, Albertas Warren, Wm. Cockram, Jno. Mathison, Tho: Beck, Jno. Tuckwell, 6 tithes."
> > >
> > > Source: Edgar MacDonald and Richard Slatten, "Surry County Tithables 1680, 1681, 1682," Magazine of Virginia Genealogy 22:4 (Nov. 1984), 47 https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/6131/images/VGS_1984_01_01_0227?pId=515933411
> > >
> > > Thomas Warren's sons Thomas and Allen were in a different tithe district that year:
> > >
> > > "A List of Tithables taken by order of Cort May ye 22th 1680
> > >
> > > "Samll. Plow, Tho: & Alling [Allen?] Warring [Warren?], 3 tithes.
> > >
> > > Source: ditto, 49.
> > >
> > > Interpretation: Albertas Warren was working for Charles Amry in 1680. Because he was a tithe, Albertas was age 16 or older, born no later than 1664. Albertas was living in the same county as Thomas's children, but in differing tithe districts. I haven't seen a source that states Albertas was Thomas's son. Edward what is your evidence for that conclusion?
> > >
> > > Nathan
> > New evidence suggests that Albertus Warren was likely a full brother to Elizabeth Warren wife of John Hunnicut.
> > Albertus has never been noted as a son of Thomas in any records. Yet his assumed father Willam did have another son of said name.
> > An Albertus appears in tithables in 1680, with William Cockerham a relative of the Spencers. He is not Allen like previously suggested as he appears with his father Thomas in the same year. He disappears right after 1680.
> > William Cockerham was the brother-in-law of Elizabeth Spencer mother of Elizabeth Warren.
> > Albertus Warren decd. the twenty-fifth Apr 1703 bur. Bruton & Middleton Parish Register 1662-1797 - Page 124
> > The will of William Hunnicut lists personal property in 3 locations in 1718. Surry, Three Creeks in South Hampton, and York County
> > Isle of Wight notes John Hunnicut and Albertus Warren in a record circa 1690s
> >William Cockerman died May 13 1669 Robert Sheppard was appointed guardian for his two orphan sons, after the death of their mother (1669)
>
> Charles Army was the stepfather of William Cockerham 2 in this tithable.
>
> His father William Cockerham 1 was the brother-in-law of Elizabeth Spencer when he died his widow Ann Spencer married Charles Amry. Elizabeth Spencer was the third wife of Thomas she was previously married to Robert Shepard.. the mother of Elizabeth Warren who married John Hunnicutt.
1679 tithable
Charles Amry - with John Mathison, William Cockerham, Isaac Vary, John Berry, Thomas Beck - (third);

On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 11:44:24 PM UTC-4, Edward Brown wrote:
> On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 11:28:29 PM UTC-4, Edward Brown wrote:
> > On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 11:17:39 PM UTC-4, Edward Brown wrote:
> > > On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 8:24:49 PM UTC-4, Nathan Murphy wrote:
> > > > > The Albertus who died in 1702-1703 was likely a son of Thomas. Thomas had a son named Albertus with Elizabeth Spencer. He is noted in the tithables in Surry in 1680. After which he likely moved elsewhere.
> > > > Thanks for sharing. Details of the entry:
> > > >
> > > > "Surry County May ye 28th 1680. A list of Tithables taken by Capt. Cha: Barham being p[ar]te of ye parish of Lawnes Creeke
> > > >
> > > > "Cha. Amry, Albertas Warren, Wm. Cockram, Jno. Mathison, Tho: Beck, Jno. Tuckwell, 6 tithes."
> > > >
> > > > Source: Edgar MacDonald and Richard Slatten, "Surry County Tithables 1680, 1681, 1682," Magazine of Virginia Genealogy 22:4 (Nov. 1984), 47 https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/6131/images/VGS_1984_01_01_0227?pId=515933411
> > > >
> > > > Thomas Warren's sons Thomas and Allen were in a different tithe district that year:
> > > >
> > > > "A List of Tithables taken by order of Cort May ye 22th 1680
> > > >
> > > > "Samll. Plow, Tho: & Alling [Allen?] Warring [Warren?], 3 tithes.
> > > >
> > > > Source: ditto, 49.
> > > >
> > > > Interpretation: Albertas Warren was working for Charles Amry in 1680. Because he was a tithe, Albertas was age 16 or older, born no later than 1664. Albertas was living in the same county as Thomas's children, but in differing tithe districts. I haven't seen a source that states Albertas was Thomas's son. Edward what is your evidence for that conclusion?
> > > >
> > > > Nathan
> > > New evidence suggests that Albertus Warren was likely a full brother to Elizabeth Warren wife of John Hunnicut.
> > > Albertus has never been noted as a son of Thomas in any records. Yet his assumed father Willam did have another son of said name.
> > > An Albertus appears in tithables in 1680, with William Cockerham a relative of the Spencers. He is not Allen like previously suggested as he appears with his father Thomas in the same year. He disappears right after 1680.
> > > William Cockerham was the brother-in-law of Elizabeth Spencer mother of Elizabeth Warren.
> > > Albertus Warren decd. the twenty-fifth Apr 1703 bur. Bruton & Middleton Parish Register 1662-1797 - Page 124
> > > The will of William Hunnicut lists personal property in 3 locations in 1718. Surry, Three Creeks in South Hampton, and York County
> > > Isle of Wight notes John Hunnicut and Albertus Warren in a record circa 1690s
> > >William Cockerman died May 13 1669 Robert Sheppard was appointed guardian for his two orphan sons, after the death of their mother (1669)
> >
> > Charles Army was the stepfather of William Cockerham 2 in this tithable..
> >
> > His father William Cockerham 1 was the brother-in-law of Elizabeth Spencer when he died his widow Ann Spencer married Charles Amry. Elizabeth Spencer was the third wife of Thomas she was previously married to Robert Shepard. the mother of Elizabeth Warren who married John Hunnicutt.
> 1679 tithable
> Charles Amry - with John Mathison, William Cockerham, Isaac Vary, John Berry, Thomas Beck - (third);

Noteworthy is that Edward Warren of Surry married ALICE (CROXON) CARTER and became the stepfather to Augustine Honeycut's wife Alice Carter and his father-in-law. John was Augustine's oldest son ( this has now been proven through a lot of circumstantial evidence. ). There seems to be a strong link between the Edward Warren family and the Thomas family in Surry. It is my strong belief that Edward Warren is Thomas's uncle as Alice was noted to be born in 1599 in a disposition.

Edward's age is often debated but he appears to be a generation older than Thomas. Edward was likely the father of

John Warren ( born 1730 ) married as 2nd wife his later stepsister MAUDLIN CREED

A. Many people think his issue is being conflated with the grandchildren of Thomas Warren

Robert Warren ( born 1728 ) who patented land in 1749 and married Sarah.

A. John who married Mary and died in 1674.

01..ROBERT WARREN

02..JOHN WARREN

03..JAMES WARREN

On Friday, September 29, 2023 at 12:08:40 AM UTC-4, Edward Brown wrote:
> On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 11:44:24 PM UTC-4, Edward Brown wrote:
> > On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 11:28:29 PM UTC-4, Edward Brown wrote:
> > > On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 11:17:39 PM UTC-4, Edward Brown wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 8:24:49 PM UTC-4, Nathan Murphy wrote:
> > > > > > The Albertus who died in 1702-1703 was likely a son of Thomas. Thomas had a son named Albertus with Elizabeth Spencer. He is noted in the tithables in Surry in 1680. After which he likely moved elsewhere.
> > > > > Thanks for sharing. Details of the entry:
> > > > >
> > > > > "Surry County May ye 28th 1680. A list of Tithables taken by Capt.. Cha: Barham being p[ar]te of ye parish of Lawnes Creeke
> > > > >
> > > > > "Cha. Amry, Albertas Warren, Wm. Cockram, Jno. Mathison, Tho: Beck, Jno. Tuckwell, 6 tithes."
> > > > >
> > > > > Source: Edgar MacDonald and Richard Slatten, "Surry County Tithables 1680, 1681, 1682," Magazine of Virginia Genealogy 22:4 (Nov. 1984), 47 https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/6131/images/VGS_1984_01_01_0227?pId=515933411
> > > > >
> > > > > Thomas Warren's sons Thomas and Allen were in a different tithe district that year:
> > > > >
> > > > > "A List of Tithables taken by order of Cort May ye 22th 1680
> > > > >
> > > > > "Samll. Plow, Tho: & Alling [Allen?] Warring [Warren?], 3 tithes.
> > > > >
> > > > > Source: ditto, 49.
> > > > >
> > > > > Interpretation: Albertas Warren was working for Charles Amry in 1680. Because he was a tithe, Albertas was age 16 or older, born no later than 1664. Albertas was living in the same county as Thomas's children, but in differing tithe districts. I haven't seen a source that states Albertas was Thomas's son. Edward what is your evidence for that conclusion?
> > > > >
> > > > > Nathan
> > > > New evidence suggests that Albertus Warren was likely a full brother to Elizabeth Warren wife of John Hunnicut.
> > > > Albertus has never been noted as a son of Thomas in any records. Yet his assumed father Willam did have another son of said name.
> > > > An Albertus appears in tithables in 1680, with William Cockerham a relative of the Spencers. He is not Allen like previously suggested as he appears with his father Thomas in the same year. He disappears right after 1680.
> > > > William Cockerham was the brother-in-law of Elizabeth Spencer mother of Elizabeth Warren.
> > > > Albertus Warren decd. the twenty-fifth Apr 1703 bur. Bruton & Middleton Parish Register 1662-1797 - Page 124
> > > > The will of William Hunnicut lists personal property in 3 locations in 1718. Surry, Three Creeks in South Hampton, and York County
> > > > Isle of Wight notes John Hunnicut and Albertus Warren in a record circa 1690s
> > > >William Cockerman died May 13 1669 Robert Sheppard was appointed guardian for his two orphan sons, after the death of their mother (1669)
> > >
> > > Charles Army was the stepfather of William Cockerham 2 in this tithable.
> > >
> > > His father William Cockerham 1 was the brother-in-law of Elizabeth Spencer when he died his widow Ann Spencer married Charles Amry. Elizabeth Spencer was the third wife of Thomas she was previously married to Robert Shepard. the mother of Elizabeth Warren who married John Hunnicutt.
> > 1679 tithable
> > Charles Amry - with John Mathison, William Cockerham, Isaac Vary, John Berry, Thomas Beck - (third);
> Noteworthy is that Edward Warren of Surry married ALICE (CROXON) CARTER and became the stepfather to Augustine Honeycut's wife Alice Carter and his father-in-law. John was Augustine's oldest son ( this has now been proven through a lot of circumstantial evidence. ). There seems to be a strong link between the Edward Warren family and the Thomas family in Surry. It is my strong belief that Edward Warren is Thomas's uncle as Alice was noted to be born in 1599 in a disposition.
>
> Edward's age is often debated but he appears to be a generation older than Thomas. Edward was likely the father of
>
> John Warren ( born 1730 ) married as 2nd wife his later stepsister MAUDLIN CREED
>
> A. Many people think his issue is being conflated with the grandchildren of Thomas Warren
>
> Robert Warren ( born 1728 ) who patented land in 1749 and married Sarah.
>
> A. John who married Mary and died in 1674.
>
> 01..ROBERT WARREN
>
> 02..JOHN WARREN
>
> 03..JAMES WARREN

The Early Spencer Family
Major Robert Sheppard and Captain William Cockerham of the colonial militia appear to have inherited William Spencer's land because they were his sons-in-law and married to Elizabeth and Anne.
William Cockerham died May 13, 1669, Robert Sheppard was appointed guardian for his two orphan sons, after the death of their mother (1669)
Mrs. Elizabeth Shepherd wrote a letter to her brother- William Cockerham, Surry Co. 1654 noted to be now in Va. Court Records
Robert Sheppard married Elizabeth Spencer. He is noted to have died in 1653.. She was later Thomas Warren.
Ann Spencer William Cockerham's widow later remarried Charles Amry. We can find William Cockerham Jr. in the tithable’s with Charles.
An Albertus Warren appears in the tithable’s in 1680 in Surry with Charles Amry and William Cockerham as well.
Since we know that Charles Amry was married to Ann Spencer and her sister Elizabeth was married to Thomas Warren it is likely that Albertus is the child of Thomas and Elizabeth Spencer.
Thomas and Elizabeth Warren's known child was Elizabeth Warren who married John Honeycut. It is likely Albertus was her full brother.
Albertus disappears from Surry records in 1680. An Albertus Warren is later noted to have a plantation in James City County.
An Albertus died in Bruton Parish in 1703. This is likely the same man. It is possible Albertus inherited some of the said land held by William Spencer and panted land elsewhere are the records are lost.

William Cockerham and William Warren Connection
On 17 September 1639, Robert Eley was granted 600 acres in Isle of Wight County; 50 for his personal adventure and 550 for the transport of 11 persons including William Cockerham and William Warren.
William Warren arrived in Virginia in 1639 and disappears from history.
I would suggest this William Warren is the same man who is noted as the father of Thomas and Albertus in England and that Albertus of Surry and later Bruton Parish is named after his uncle.
The later marriage of William Cockerham's sister-in-law to Thomas Warren would suggest that the two families knew each other previously in the New World.

On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 8:24:49 PM UTC-4, Nathan Murphy wrote:
> > The Albertus who died in 1702-1703 was likely a son of Thomas. Thomas had a son named Albertus with Elizabeth Spencer. He is noted in the tithables in Surry in 1680. After which he likely moved elsewhere.
> Thanks for sharing. Details of the entry:
>
> "Surry County May ye 28th 1680. A list of Tithables taken by Capt. Cha: Barham being p[ar]te of ye parish of Lawnes Creeke
>
> "Cha. Amry, Albertas Warren, Wm. Cockram, Jno. Mathison, Tho: Beck, Jno. Tuckwell, 6 tithes."
>
> Source: Edgar MacDonald and Richard Slatten, "Surry County Tithables 1680, 1681, 1682," Magazine of Virginia Genealogy 22:4 (Nov. 1984), 47 https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/6131/images/VGS_1984_01_01_0227?pId=515933411
>
> Thomas Warren's sons Thomas and Allen were in a different tithe district that year:
>
> "A List of Tithables taken by order of Cort May ye 22th 1680
>
> "Samll. Plow, Tho: & Alling [Allen?] Warring [Warren?], 3 tithes.
>
> Source: ditto, 49.
>
> Interpretation: Albertas Warren was working for Charles Amry in 1680. Because he was a tithe, Albertas was age 16 or older, born no later than 1664. Albertas was living in the same county as Thomas's children, but in differing tithe districts. I haven't seen a source that states Albertas was Thomas's son. Edward what is your evidence for that conclusion?
>
> Nathan

The Early Spencer Family

Major Robert Sheppard and Captain William Cockerham of the colonial militia appear to have inherited William Spencer's land because they were his sons-in-law and married to Elizabeth and Anne.

William Cockerham died May 13, 1669, Robert Sheppard was appointed guardian for his two orphan sons, after the death of their mother (1669)
Mrs. Elizabeth Shepherd wrote a letter to her brother- William Cockerham, Surry Co. 1654 noted to be now in Va. Court Records

Robert Sheppard married Elizabeth Spencer. He is noted to have died in 1653.. She was later Thomas Warren.

Ann Spencer William Cockerham's widow later remarried Charles Amry. We can find William Cockerham Jr. in the tithable’s with Charles.

An Albertus Warren appears in the tithable’s in 1680 in Surry with Charles Amry and William Cockerham as well.

Since we know that Charles Amry was married to Ann Spencer and her sister Elizabeth was married to Thomas Warren it is likely that Albertus is the child of Thomas and Elizabeth Spencer.

Thomas and Elizabeth Warren's known child was Elizabeth Warren who married John Honeycut. It is likely Albertus was her full brother.

Albertus disappears from Surry records in 1680. An Albertus Warren is later noted to have a plantation in James City County.

An Albertus died in Bruton Parish in 1703. This is likely the same man. It is possible Albertus inherited some of the said land held by William Spencer and panted land elsewhere are the records are lost.

William Cockerham and William Warren Connection

On 17 September 1639, Robert Eley was granted 600 acres in Isle of Wight County; 50 for his personal adventure and 550 for the transport of 11 persons including William Cockerham and William Warren.

William Warren arrived in Virginia in 1639 and disappears from history.

I would suggest this William Warren is the same man who is noted as the father of Thomas and Albertus in England and that Albertus of Surry and later Bruton Parish is named after his uncle.

The later marriage of William Cockerham's sister-in-law to Thomas Warren would suggest that the two families knew each other previously in the New World.

On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 8:24:49 PM UTC-4, Nathan Murphy wrote:
> > The Albertus who died in 1702-1703 was likely a son of Thomas. Thomas had a son named Albertus with Elizabeth Spencer. He is noted in the tithables in Surry in 1680. After which he likely moved elsewhere.
> Thanks for sharing. Details of the entry:
>
> "Surry County May ye 28th 1680. A list of Tithables taken by Capt. Cha: Barham being p[ar]te of ye parish of Lawnes Creeke
>
> "Cha. Amry, Albertas Warren, Wm. Cockram, Jno. Mathison, Tho: Beck, Jno. Tuckwell, 6 tithes."
>
> Source: Edgar MacDonald and Richard Slatten, "Surry County Tithables 1680, 1681, 1682," Magazine of Virginia Genealogy 22:4 (Nov. 1984), 47 https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/6131/images/VGS_1984_01_01_0227?pId=515933411
>
> Thomas Warren's sons Thomas and Allen were in a different tithe district that year:
>
> "A List of Tithables taken by order of Cort May ye 22th 1680
>
> "Samll. Plow, Tho: & Alling [Allen?] Warring [Warren?], 3 tithes.
>
> Source: ditto, 49.
>
> Interpretation: Albertas Warren was working for Charles Amry in 1680. Because he was a tithe, Albertas was age 16 or older, born no later than 1664. Albertas was living in the same county as Thomas's children, but in differing tithe districts. I haven't seen a source that states Albertas was Thomas's son. Edward what is your evidence for that conclusion?
>
> Nathan
The Early Spencer Family

Major Robert Sheppard and Captain William Cockerham of the colonial militia appear to have inherited William Spencer's land because they were his sons-in-law and married to Elizabeth and Anne.

William Cockerham died May 13, 1669, Robert Sheppard was appointed guardian for his two orphan sons, after the death of their mother (1669)
Mrs. Elizabeth Shepherd wrote a letter to her brother- William Cockerham, Surry Co. 1654 noted to be now in Va. Court Records

Robert Sheppard married Elizabeth Spencer. He is noted to have died in 1653.. She was later Thomas Warren.

Ann Spencer William Cockerham's widow later remarried Charles Amry. We can find William Cockerham Jr. in the tithable’s with Charles.

An Albertus Warren appears in the tithable’s in 1680 in Surry with Charles Amry and William Cockerham as well.

Since we know that Charles Amry was married to Ann Spencer and her sister Elizabeth was married to Thomas Warren it is likely that Albertus is the child of Thomas and Elizabeth Spencer.

Thomas and Elizabeth Warren's known child was Elizabeth Warren who married John Honeycut. It is likely Albertus was her full brother.

Albertus disappears from Surry records in 1680. An Albertus Warren is later noted to have a plantation in James City County.

An Albertus died in Bruton Parish in 1703. This is likely the same man. It is possible Albertus inherited some of the said land held by William Spencer and panted land elsewhere are the records are lost.

William Cockerham and William Warren Connection

On 17 September 1639, Robert Eley was granted 600 acres in Isle of Wight County; 50 for his personal adventure and 550 for the transport of 11 persons including William Cockerham and William Warren.

William Warren arrived in Virginia in 1639 and disappears from history.

I would suggest this William Warren is the same man who is noted as the father of Thomas and Albertus in England and that Albertus of Surry and later Bruton Parish is named after his uncle.

The later marriage of William Cockerham's sister-in-law to Thomas Warren would suggest that the two families knew each other previously in the New World.

On Thursday, October 12, 2023 at 9:04:00 AM UTC-4, Edward Brown wrote:
> On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 8:24:49 PM UTC-4, Nathan Murphy wrote:
> > > The Albertus who died in 1702-1703 was likely a son of Thomas. Thomas had a son named Albertus with Elizabeth Spencer. He is noted in the tithables in Surry in 1680. After which he likely moved elsewhere.
> > Thanks for sharing. Details of the entry:
> >
> > "Surry County May ye 28th 1680. A list of Tithables taken by Capt. Cha: Barham being p[ar]te of ye parish of Lawnes Creeke
> >
> > "Cha. Amry, Albertas Warren, Wm. Cockram, Jno. Mathison, Tho: Beck, Jno.. Tuckwell, 6 tithes."
> >
> > Source: Edgar MacDonald and Richard Slatten, "Surry County Tithables 1680, 1681, 1682," Magazine of Virginia Genealogy 22:4 (Nov. 1984), 47 https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/6131/images/VGS_1984_01_01_0227?pId=515933411
> >
> > Thomas Warren's sons Thomas and Allen were in a different tithe district that year:
> >
> > "A List of Tithables taken by order of Cort May ye 22th 1680
> >
> > "Samll. Plow, Tho: & Alling [Allen?] Warring [Warren?], 3 tithes.
> >
> > Source: ditto, 49.
> >
> > Interpretation: Albertas Warren was working for Charles Amry in 1680. Because he was a tithe, Albertas was age 16 or older, born no later than 1664. Albertas was living in the same county as Thomas's children, but in differing tithe districts. I haven't seen a source that states Albertas was Thomas's son. Edward what is your evidence for that conclusion?
> >
> > Nathan
> The Early Spencer Family
>
> Major Robert Sheppard and Captain William Cockerham of the colonial militia appear to have inherited William Spencer's land because they were his sons-in-law and married to Elizabeth and Anne.
>
> William Cockerham died May 13, 1669, Robert Sheppard was appointed guardian for his two orphan sons, after the death of their mother (1669)
> Mrs. Elizabeth Shepherd wrote a letter to her brother- William Cockerham, Surry Co. 1654 noted to be now in Va. Court Records
>
> Robert Sheppard married Elizabeth Spencer. He is noted to have died in 1653. She was later Thomas Warren.
>
> Ann Spencer William Cockerham's widow later remarried Charles Amry. We can find William Cockerham Jr. in the tithable’s with Charles.
>
> An Albertus Warren appears in the tithable’s in 1680 in Surry with Charles Amry and William Cockerham as well.
>
> Since we know that Charles Amry was married to Ann Spencer and her sister Elizabeth was married to Thomas Warren it is likely that Albertus is the child of Thomas and Elizabeth Spencer.
>
> Thomas and Elizabeth Warren's known child was Elizabeth Warren who married John Honeycut. It is likely Albertus was her full brother.
>
> Albertus disappears from Surry records in 1680. An Albertus Warren is later noted to have a plantation in James City County.
>
> An Albertus died in Bruton Parish in 1703. This is likely the same man. It is possible Albertus inherited some of the said land held by William Spencer and panted land elsewhere are the records are lost.
>
> William Cockerham and William Warren Connection
>
> On 17 September 1639, Robert Eley was granted 600 acres in Isle of Wight County; 50 for his personal adventure and 550 for the transport of 11 persons including William Cockerham and William Warren.
>
> William Warren arrived in Virginia in 1639 and was in James County.
>
> I would suggest that William Warren is a close relative of Thomas Warren. Likely a son of John
>
> The later marriage of William Cockerham's sister-in-law to Thomas Warren would suggest that the two families knew each other previously in the New World.

On Friday, October 27, 2023 at 12:20:30 PM UTC-4, Edward Brown wrote:
> On Thursday, October 12, 2023 at 9:04:00 AM UTC-4, Edward Brown wrote:
> > On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 8:24:49 PM UTC-4, Nathan Murphy wrote:
> > > > The Albertus who died in 1702-1703 was likely a son of Thomas. Thomas had a son named Albertus with Elizabeth Spencer. He is noted in the tithables in Surry in 1680. After which he likely moved elsewhere.
> > > Thanks for sharing. Details of the entry:
> > >
> > > "Surry County May ye 28th 1680. A list of Tithables taken by Capt. Cha: Barham being p[ar]te of ye parish of Lawnes Creeke
> > >
> > > "Cha. Amry, Albertas Warren, Wm. Cockram, Jno. Mathison, Tho: Beck, Jno. Tuckwell, 6 tithes."
> > >
> > > Source: Edgar MacDonald and Richard Slatten, "Surry County Tithables 1680, 1681, 1682," Magazine of Virginia Genealogy 22:4 (Nov. 1984), 47 https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/6131/images/VGS_1984_01_01_0227?pId=515933411
> > >
> > > Thomas Warren's sons Thomas and Allen were in a different tithe district that year:
> > >
> > > "A List of Tithables taken by order of Cort May ye 22th 1680
> > >
> > > "Samll. Plow, Tho: & Alling [Allen?] Warring [Warren?], 3 tithes.
> > >
> > > Source: ditto, 49.
> > >
> > > Interpretation: Albertas Warren was working for Charles Amry in 1680. Because he was a tithe, Albertas was age 16 or older, born no later than 1664. Albertas was living in the same county as Thomas's children, but in differing tithe districts. I haven't seen a source that states Albertas was Thomas's son. Edward what is your evidence for that conclusion?
> > >
> > > Nathan
> > The Early Spencer Family
> >
> > Major Robert Sheppard and Captain William Cockerham of the colonial militia appear to have inherited William Spencer's land because they were his sons-in-law and married to Elizabeth and Anne.
> >
> > William Cockerham died May 13, 1669, Robert Sheppard was appointed guardian for his two orphan sons, after the death of their mother (1669)
> > Mrs. Elizabeth Shepherd wrote a letter to her brother- William Cockerham, Surry Co. 1654 noted to be now in Va. Court Records
> >
> > Robert Sheppard married Elizabeth Spencer. He is noted to have died in 1653. She was later Thomas Warren.
> >
> > Ann Spencer William Cockerham's widow later remarried Charles Amry. We can find William Cockerham Jr. in the tithable’s with Charles.
> >
> > An Albertus Warren appears in the tithable’s in 1680 in Surry with Charles Amry and William Cockerham as well.
> >
> > Since we know that Charles Amry was married to Ann Spencer and her sister Elizabeth was married to Thomas Warren it is likely that Albertus is the child of Thomas and Elizabeth Spencer.
> >
> > Thomas and Elizabeth Warren's known child was Elizabeth Warren who married John Honeycut. It is likely Albertus was her full brother.
> >
> > Albertus disappears from Surry records in 1680. An Albertus Warren is later noted to have a plantation in James City County.
> >
> > An Albertus died in Bruton Parish in 1703. This is likely the same man. It is possible Albertus inherited some of the said land held by William Spencer and panted land elsewhere are the records are lost.
> >
> > William Cockerham and William Warren Connection
> >
> > On 17 September 1639, Robert Eley was granted 600 acres in Isle of Wight County; 50 for his personal adventure and 550 for the transport of 11 persons including William Cockerham and William Warren.
> >
> > William Warren arrived in Virginia in 1639 and was in James County.
> >
> > I would suggest that William Warren is a close relative of Thomas Warren. Likely a son of John and Thomas's first cousin
> >
> > The later marriage of William Cockerham's sister-in-law to Thomas Warren would suggest that the two families knew each other previously in the New World.