This is from Our Royal and titled Family web site:

Sir Richard Fortescue1,2
Last Edited 4 Aug 2013
M, #47669, b. circa 1406, d. 1455
Father Sir John Fortescue1 b. c 1380, d. c 1435
Mother Eleanor Norreys1 b. c 1376, d. b 12 Nov 1408
Sir Richard Fortescue was born circa 1406 at of Winston, Devonshire, England.1 He married Alice de Windsor, daughter of Walter de Windsor, circa 1439.1,2 Sir Richard Fortescue died in 1455.1
Family
Alice de Windsor b. c 1420
Child
Sir John Fortescue, Chief Butler of England, Sheriff of Herefordshire, Porter of Calais+1,2 b. c 1440, d. 28 Jul 1500
Citations
[S11581] Burke's Dormant & Extinct Peerages, p. 221.
[S4] Douglas Richardson, Royal Ancestry, Vol. III, p. 309.
Alice de Windsor1
Last Edited 4 Aug 2013
F, #47670, b. circa 1420

Does anyone know if this is the only Sir Richard in Devon at the time, and if this is in fact, this Elizabeth's family, and if so, can you point to a source for that. thanks.

BettyG

On Thursday, October 26, 2023 at 1:59:29 PM UTC-7, Betty Gorrie wrote:
> This is from Our Royal and titled Family web site:
>
> Sir Richard Fortescue1,2
> Last Edited 4 Aug 2013
> M, #47669, b. circa 1406, d. 1455
> Father Sir John Fortescue1 b. c 1380, d. c 1435
> Mother Eleanor Norreys1 b. c 1376, d. b 12 Nov 1408
> Sir Richard Fortescue was born circa 1406 at of Winston, Devonshire, England.1 He married Alice de Windsor, daughter of Walter de Windsor, circa 1439.1,2 Sir Richard Fortescue died in 1455.1
> Family
> Alice de Windsor b. c 1420
> Child
> Sir John Fortescue, Chief Butler of England, Sheriff of Herefordshire, Porter of Calais+1,2 b. c 1440, d. 28 Jul 1500
> Citations
> [S11581] Burke's Dormant & Extinct Peerages, p. 221.
> [S4] Douglas Richardson, Royal Ancestry, Vol. III, p. 309.
> Alice de Windsor1
> Last Edited 4 Aug 2013
> F, #47670, b. circa 1420
>
> Does anyone know if this is the only Sir Richard in Devon at the time, and if this is in fact, this Elizabeth's family, and if so, can you point to a source for that. thanks.
>
> BettyG

I found in De_Laudibus_Legum_Angliæ, Preface the pedigree of John Fortescue, Chief Justice of England, and it is as stated in the Visitations of Sussex for Fortescue. Does anyone have have Douglas Richard's work to review to see if he in fact means Chief Justice or is it as stated Chief Butler, and it is someone else, as Elizabeth Croker is noted in the Visitations as the sister of the Chief Justice, and therefore, not of Sir Richard at all. However, there seems to be some confusion in the sources, which lists her father as Sir Richard, in conflict with the Visitations.

Thanks.

BettyG

On Thursday, October 26, 2023 at 1:59:29 PM UTC-7, Betty Gorrie wrote:
> This is from Our Royal and titled Family web site:
>
> Sir Richard Fortescue1,2
> Last Edited 4 Aug 2013
> M, #47669, b. circa 1406, d. 1455
> Father Sir John Fortescue1 b. c 1380, d. c 1435
> Mother Eleanor Norreys1 b. c 1376, d. b 12 Nov 1408
> Sir Richard Fortescue was born circa 1406 at of Winston, Devonshire, England.1 He married Alice de Windsor, daughter of Walter de Windsor, circa 1439.1,2 Sir Richard Fortescue died in 1455.1
> Family
> Alice de Windsor b. c 1420
> Child
> Sir John Fortescue, Chief Butler of England, Sheriff of Herefordshire, Porter of Calais+1,2 b. c 1440, d. 28 Jul 1500
> Citations
> [S11581] Burke's Dormant & Extinct Peerages, p. 221.
> [S4] Douglas Richardson, Royal Ancestry, Vol. III, p. 309.
> Alice de Windsor1
> Last Edited 4 Aug 2013
> F, #47670, b. circa 1420
>
> Does anyone know if this is the only Sir Richard in Devon at the time, and if this is in fact, this Elizabeth's family, and if so, can you point to a source for that. thanks.
>
> BettyG

Vivian's Visitations of Cornwall, and his Visitations of the County of Devon both have Fortescue pedigrees that show Chief Justice John as brother of Sir Richard. Unfortunately all they say of Sir Richard is: "3 son. A quo Fortescue of Punsborne, Falkborne, and Seldon." Both pedigrees give him a nephew, Richard (not Sir), married to Margaret Hill. This contradicts the 1564 visitation of Devon, which shows Justice John as brother of the younger Richard.

taf

On Thursday, October 26, 2023 at 5:10:55 PM UTC-7, taf wrote:
> On Thursday, October 26, 2023 at 1:59:29 PM UTC-7, Betty Gorrie wrote:
> > This is from Our Royal and titled Family web site:
> >
> > Sir Richard Fortescue1,2
> > Last Edited 4 Aug 2013
> > M, #47669, b. circa 1406, d. 1455
> > Father Sir John Fortescue1 b. c 1380, d. c 1435
> > Mother Eleanor Norreys1 b. c 1376, d. b 12 Nov 1408
> > Sir Richard Fortescue was born circa 1406 at of Winston, Devonshire, England.1 He married Alice de Windsor, daughter of Walter de Windsor, circa 1439.1,2 Sir Richard Fortescue died in 1455.1
> > Family
> > Alice de Windsor b. c 1420
> > Child
> > Sir John Fortescue, Chief Butler of England, Sheriff of Herefordshire, Porter of Calais+1,2 b. c 1440, d. 28 Jul 1500
> > Citations
> > [S11581] Burke's Dormant & Extinct Peerages, p. 221.
> > [S4] Douglas Richardson, Royal Ancestry, Vol. III, p. 309.
> > Alice de Windsor1
> > Last Edited 4 Aug 2013
> > F, #47670, b. circa 1420
> >
> > Does anyone know if this is the only Sir Richard in Devon at the time, and if this is in fact, this Elizabeth's family, and if so, can you point to a source for that. thanks.
> >
> > BettyG
> Vivian's Visitations of Cornwall, and his Visitations of the County of Devon both have Fortescue pedigrees that show Chief Justice John as brother of Sir Richard. Unfortunately all they say of Sir Richard is: "3 son. A quo Fortescue of Punsborne, Falkborne, and Seldon." Both pedigrees give him a nephew, Richard (not Sir), married to Margaret Hill. This contradicts the 1564 visitation of Devon, which shows Justice John as brother of the younger Richard.
>
> taf

Yeah, I looked at all of the Fortescue things, including Edmundson's Plate 442 which shoes Henry John and Richard to be brothers, [which is available from Familysearch as individual Plates in order] I also looked at the Parliamentary History for Henry and John and they say Henry was the younger brother of John, I think the 2nd of the 3 of them, , and that was the most helpful as it told the date of service as MP's. They must be modifying Henry's bio as his profile is missing the text today. However, I seem to remember seeing it about 1428 or so, whereas John was Gov of Grey's Inn in 1424. So they are both the generation before Elizabeth, based on the dates of service and Edmundsen, I see them as same way. The Visitations of Fortescue shows Elizabeth who married Croker in the wrong spot. What I was hoping to find more than her position within Fortescue, was confirmation of her marriage to Croker, beyond the Visitations. I seem to remember someone saying what the primary source for this marriage was, but for whatever reason I can't place it.

Bg

On Thursday, October 26, 2023 at 1:59:29 PM UTC-7, Betty Gorrie wrote:
> This is from Our Royal and titled Family web site:
>
> Sir Richard Fortescue1,2
> Last Edited 4 Aug 2013
> M, #47669, b. circa 1406, d. 1455
> Father Sir John Fortescue1 b. c 1380, d. c 1435
> Mother Eleanor Norreys1 b. c 1376, d. b 12 Nov 1408
> Sir Richard Fortescue was born circa 1406 at of Winston, Devonshire, England.1 He married Alice de Windsor, daughter of Walter de Windsor, circa 1439.1,2 Sir Richard Fortescue died in 1455.1
> Family
> Alice de Windsor b. c 1420
> Child
> Sir John Fortescue, Chief Butler of England, Sheriff of Herefordshire, Porter of Calais+1,2 b. c 1440, d. 28 Jul 1500
> Citations
> [S11581] Burke's Dormant & Extinct Peerages, p. 221.
> [S4] Douglas Richardson, Royal Ancestry, Vol. III, p. 309.
> Alice de Windsor1
> Last Edited 4 Aug 2013
> F, #47670, b. circa 1420
>
> Does anyone know if this is the only Sir Richard in Devon at the time, and if this is in fact, this Elizabeth's family, and if so, can you point to a source for that. thanks.
>
> BettyG

Warning that Our Royal and Titled Family website is a hopeless mishmash of actual useful sources and wild speculation
The author doesn't distinguish the two, so this website should not be consulted

On Friday, November 3, 2023 at 8:46:59 AM UTC-7, Will Johnson wrote:
> On Thursday, October 26, 2023 at 1:59:29 PM UTC-7, Betty Gorrie wrote:
> > This is from Our Royal and titled Family web site:
> >
> > Sir Richard Fortescue1,2
> > Last Edited 4 Aug 2013
> > M, #47669, b. circa 1406, d. 1455
> > Father Sir John Fortescue1 b. c 1380, d. c 1435
> > Mother Eleanor Norreys1 b. c 1376, d. b 12 Nov 1408
> > Sir Richard Fortescue was born circa 1406 at of Winston, Devonshire, England.1 He married Alice de Windsor, daughter of Walter de Windsor, circa 1439.1,2 Sir Richard Fortescue died in 1455.1
> > Family
> > Alice de Windsor b. c 1420
> > Child
> > Sir John Fortescue, Chief Butler of England, Sheriff of Herefordshire, Porter of Calais+1,2 b. c 1440, d. 28 Jul 1500
> > Citations
> > [S11581] Burke's Dormant & Extinct Peerages, p. 221.
> > [S4] Douglas Richardson, Royal Ancestry, Vol. III, p. 309.
> > Alice de Windsor1
> > Last Edited 4 Aug 2013
> > F, #47670, b. circa 1420
> >
> > Does anyone know if this is the only Sir Richard in Devon at the time, and if this is in fact, this Elizabeth's family, and if so, can you point to a source for that. thanks.
> >
> > BettyG
> Warning that Our Royal and Titled Family website is a hopeless mishmash of actual useful sources and wild speculation
> The author doesn't distinguish the two, so this website should not be consulted

As one example, Richard Fortesque (or Fortescue) was Slain at the Battle of St Albans in 1455
Although we are told from this source

https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Works_of_Sir_John_Fortescue_Knight/J2gvAQAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=agnes%20windsor%20richard%20fortescue&pg=PA152-IA1&printsec=frontcover&bsq=agnes%20windsor%20richard%20fortescue

that he was the third or later son
we have *no clue whatsoever* what year he was born
sometime between 1382 and 1420 which is a rather wide mark to decide it must be 1406

His first child was born *by* 1442
His daughter Elizabeth, herself had a child (John) *by* 1458
His third child John had a son *by* 1469

By dates are not *in* dates, his son John wasn't born IN 1469 only BY 1469