In article <335f55a3-9192-4e03-b4f3-621ef2a7925dn@googlegroups.com>,
Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Monday, July 24, 2023 at 1:17:46 AM UTC-7, none albert wrote:
>> >All of the Forth-200x committee disgust me. They are so desperate to
>> >appear to be leaders that they continue year after year to pretend that
>> >I'm their loyal little follower. I'm not their follower! They disgust me!
>> The Forth commitee and the conference organizer contribute greatly,
>> contrary to you-know-who.
>
>The Forth committee and the conference organizer have contributed
>exactly nothing in regard to a string-stack. All of the self-proclaimed
>Forth experts have failed miserably at implementing a string-stack
>in the the entire history of the Forth language, which is about 50 years.

I didn't know the task of a conference organizer is to debug string-stacks.

Groetjes Albert
--
Don't praise the day before the evening. One swallow doesn't make spring.
You must not say "hey" before you have crossed the bridge. Don't sell the
hide of the bear until you shot it. Better one bird in the hand than ten in
the air. First gain is a cat spinning. - the Wise from Antrim -

In article <u9o13b$12f5p$1@dont-email.me>, dxforth <dxforth@gmail.com> wrote:
>On 25/07/2023 12:51 pm, Hugh Aguilar wrote:
>>
>> Most likely the anonymous African's string-stack was
>> just a rework of Wil Baden's crap code that doesn't use COW.
>
>Which Wil Baden code was that? I'm not aware string stacks ever figured
>highly in Forth if the literature is any indicator. Low use and lack of
>development often go hand in hand. Even if someone advances the technology,
>there's no guarantee it will be picked up due to lack of demand. What
>definitely doesn't help is burying it.
>
I get by with statically organized storage and
$@ $! $+! $C+ and $^ $/ $\
Now I'm busy with Clojure mal. There is a lot of string handling
going on, but it probably would be a term project to adapt Aguilar
strings-stack. COW is worthless as future versions of Clojure needs
garbage collecting strings anyhow and Clojure shuns modification
of data structures. "Copy On Write but the Write never happens."

I seen dozen of "string stacks" by the way and no applications.
It is a favorite pass time of the likes of Aguilar to create these
package and then boast about them.
A tool can make into my library if it has been (!) used more
than 3 times, and occupies at most 3 screens.

$@ $! $+! $C+ fits in one screen and it doesn't burden the
memory. With $^ find-char-position $/ slash-from-the-front
and $\ slash-from-the back I happily analyse the comma separated
transaction lists from my bank for my taxes.

Groetjes Albert
--
Don't praise the day before the evening. One swallow doesn't make spring.
You must not say "hey" before you have crossed the bridge. Don't sell the
hide of the bear until you shot it. Better one bird in the hand than ten in
the air. First gain is a cat spinning. - the Wise from Antrim -

On 25/07/2023 7:17 pm, albert wrote:
> In article <u9o13b$12f5p$1@dont-email.me>, dxforth <dxforth@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 25/07/2023 12:51 pm, Hugh Aguilar wrote:
>>>
>>> Most likely the anonymous African's string-stack was
>>> just a rework of Wil Baden's crap code that doesn't use COW.
>>
>> Which Wil Baden code was that? I'm not aware string stacks ever figured
>> highly in Forth if the literature is any indicator. Low use and lack of
>> development often go hand in hand. Even if someone advances the technology,
>> there's no guarantee it will be picked up due to lack of demand. What
>> definitely doesn't help is burying it.
>>
> I get by with statically organized storage and
> $@ $! $+! $C+ and $^ $/ $\
> Now I'm busy with Clojure mal. There is a lot of string handling
> going on, but it probably would be a term project to adapt Aguilar
> strings-stack. COW is worthless as future versions of Clojure needs
> garbage collecting strings anyhow and Clojure shuns modification
> of data structures. "Copy On Write but the Write never happens."
>
> I seen dozen of "string stacks" by the way and no applications.
> It is a favorite pass time of the likes of Aguilar to create these
> package and then boast about them.
> A tool can make into my library if it has been (!) used more
> than 3 times, and occupies at most 3 screens.
>
> $@ $! $+! $C+ fits in one screen and it doesn't burden the
> memory. With $^ find-char-position $/ slash-from-the-front
> and $\ slash-from-the back I happily analyse the comma separated
> transaction lists from my bank for my taxes.

Found this old discussion which may interest new and old.

https://groups.google.com/g/comp.lang.forth/c/cISVDbPlR2E/m/7PSR0uv4KYoJ

none albert schrieb am Dienstag, 25. Juli 2023 um 11:17:18 UTC+2:
> In article <u9o13b$12f5p$1...@dont-email.me>, dxforth <dxf...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On 25/07/2023 12:51 pm, Hugh Aguilar wrote:
> >>
> >> Most likely the anonymous African's string-stack was
> >> just a rework of Wil Baden's crap code that doesn't use COW.
> >
> >Which Wil Baden code was that? I'm not aware string stacks ever figured
> >highly in Forth if the literature is any indicator. Low use and lack of
> >development often go hand in hand. Even if someone advances the technology,
> >there's no guarantee it will be picked up due to lack of demand. What
> >definitely doesn't help is burying it.
> >
> I get by with statically organized storage and
> $@ $! $+! $C+ and $^ $/ $\
> Now I'm busy with Clojure mal. There is a lot of string handling
> going on, but it probably would be a term project to adapt Aguilar
> strings-stack. COW is worthless as future versions of Clojure needs
> garbage collecting strings anyhow and Clojure shuns modification
> of data structures. "Copy On Write but the Write never happens."
>
> I seen dozen of "string stacks" by the way and no applications.
> It is a favorite pass time of the likes of Aguilar to create these
> package and then boast about them.
> A tool can make into my library if it has been (!) used more
> than 3 times, and occupies at most 3 screens.
>

I regularly use array-stacks with COW for signal processing.
Global arrays are available as natural extension of Forth VALUEs.

It would be trivial to use this for character arrays or strings. But I
never exhausted my small circular string buffer. Given that most strings
are anyhow small compared to available memory, a separate string stack
seems a rather superfluous tool.

On Tuesday, July 25, 2023 at 11:17:18 AM UTC+2, none albert wrote:
[..]
> A tool can make into my library if it has been (!) used more
> than 3 times, and occupies at most 3 screens.
>
> $@ $! $+! $C+ fits in one screen and it doesn't burden the
> memory. With $^ find-char-position $/ slash-from-the-front
> and $\ slash-from-the back I happily analyse the comma separated
> transaction lists from my bank for my taxes.

I've noticed that there are words one doesn't miss unless one sees
other use it. Here's a small selection from iForth's miscutil.frt .
In the process of writing iSPICE I needed many other string/parsing
words, but these are still in purgatory.

:ABOUT
??CR ." -- low-precision timing --"
CR ." TIMER-RESET \ ( -- )"
CR ." TIMER-PRESET \ ( u -- ) offset for .elapsed"
CR ." ?MS \ ( -- u ) ms since machine turned on"
CR ." MS? \ ( -- u ) ms since TIMER-RESET"
CR ." .ELAPSED \ ( -- ) prints number of ms since last TIMER-RESET"
CR
CR ." -- high-precision timing --"
CR ." USE-TSC-TIMER \ ( flag -- ) when true use TSC for the TICKS-GET, otherwise the system clock"
CR ." .TICKER-INFO \ ( -- ) gives information about the current TICKS-GET mode"
CR ." PROCESSOR-CLOCK \ ( -- mhz )
CR ." TICKS-INITED? \ ( -- TRUE=inited )"
CR ." CALIBRATE \ ( -- ) compute processor-clock"
CR ." RECALIBRATE \ ( -- ) recompute processor-clock"
CR ." TICKS-RESET \ ( -- )"
CR ." TICKS-GET \ ( -- ud ) ticks since machine turned on"
CR ." TICKS? \ ( -- ud ) ticks since TICKS-RESET"
CR ." TICKS>US \ ( ud -- ud ) convert to microseconds"
CR ." TICKS>MS \ ( ud -- u ) convert to milliseconds"
CR ." US? \ ( -- ud ) microseconds since last TICKS-RESET"
CR ." DTICKS-RESET \ ( -- )"
CR ." [TICKS \ ( -- )"
CR ." TICKS] \ ( -- ) accumulates ticks since [TICKS"
CR ." D-US? \ ( -- ud ) us since last DTICKS-RESET"
CR .~ .TICKS" \ ( <text>" -- ) time in clock ticks"
\ CR ." PMC@ \ ( u -- ud ) read performance monitor u (0|1)"
CR
CR ." -- formatting --"
CR ." ((n,3)) \ ( ud -- caddr u )"
CR ." (n,3) \ ( ud -- )"
CR ." ((.KB)) \ ( ud -- caddr u )"
CR ." (.KB) \ ( ud -- )"
CR ." .KB \ ( u -- ) prints 12345678 as 12,345.678"
CR ." .MB \ ( u -- ) prints 12345678 as 12.345"
CR ." .MSECS \ ( ud -- )"
CR ." .BOOL \ ( bool -- ) Type 'yes' or 'no' "
CR
CR ." BETWEEN \ ( n low high -- bool ) like WITHIN but inclusive
CR ." ENUM \ definer; ( init -- ) ENUM name: then use name: red name: blue etc."
CR ." 2^x \ ( x -- 2^x )"
CR ." SQRT \ ( u1 -- u2 )"
CR ." SQR \ ( u1 -- u2 )"
CR ." DSQRT \ ( ud -- u )"
CR ." LOG2 \ ( u -- hi_bit# | -1 )"
CR ." #BITS \ ( u -- #bits )"
CR ." LOWEST-BIT \ ( u -- lo_bit# | -1 )"
CR ." POWER-OF-2? \ ( u -- bool )"
CR ." 16B->S \ ( 16b -- n ) sign-extend a character/word"
CR ." DXOR \ ( d1 d2 -- d1^d2 )"
CR ." DAND \ ( d1 d2 -- d1&d2 )"
CR ." DOR \ ( d1 d2 -- d1|d2 )"
CR ." DINVERT \ ( d -- ~d )"
CR ." RANDOMIZE \ ( -- ) (Re)initialize random number generator"
CR ." RANDOM \ ( -- u ) Fairly random number (integer)"
CR ." CHOOSE \ ( n -- u ) 0 <= u < n pick random number from range"
CR ." FRANDOM \ ( F: -- r ) Random floating-point number < 2^31"
CR ." FCHOOSE \ ( n -- ) ( F: -- ur ) 0 <= ur < r pick random number from range"
CR ." FPREM \ ( F: r1 r2 -- rem[r1/r2] ) take FP remainder"
CR ." FP/REM \ ( F: r1 r2 -- rem[r1/r2] ) ( -- div[r1/r2] ) take FP remainder and quotient"
CR ." NOW? \ ( cfa -- ) Compile if compiling, else execute"
CR ." DEFER \ (compile) DEFER #<vector># define a vectored word"
CR ." \ (execute) #<vector># -- <addr>
CR ." IS [IS] \ ' <exectoken> IS #<vector># setup vector"
CR ." IS? [IS?] \ ( -- xt ) usage: vector IS?"
CR ." 32B, 16B, \ ( n -- ) comma 32 and 16-bit numbers without aligning"
CR ." F#80 \ text is ignored if package is not extended precision"
CR ." F#64 \ text is ignored if package is not double precision"
CR ." F#32 \ text is ignored if package is not single precision"
CR ." +E.R \ ( fieldwidth> -- ) ( F: r -- ) print in field"
CR ." +E. \ ( -- ) ( F: r -- ) print in default field"
CR ." (F.N1) \ ( -- c-addr u ) ( F: r -- ) format in engineering notation"
CR ." F.N1 \ ( F: r -- ) print in engineering notation with trailing space"
CR ." (F.N2) \ ( -- c-addr u ) ( F: r -- ) format in engineering notation, no space"
CR ." F.N2 \ ( F: r -- ) print in engineering notation, no space"
CR ." FDUMP \ ( a-addr +n -- ) print +n floats from a-addr"
CR ." DFDUMP \ ( a-addr +n -- ) print +n dfloats from a-addr"
CR ." SFDUMP \ ( a-addr +n -- ) print +n sfloats from a-addr"
CR ." F>SR \ ( F: r -- ) ( -- r ) rounding version of F>S"
CR ." SOURCELINE# \ ( -- +n )"
CR ." SOURCEFILENAME \ ( -- c-addr u )"
CR ." EXEC: .. EXEC; \ ( index -- ? ) EXEC: in-line jump (call) table"
CR ." BIT? \ ( base bit# -- ? ) test a bit"
CR ." -BIT? \ ( base bit# -- bit# ? ) test a bit"
CR ." BIT-RESET \ ( base bit# -- ) reset a bit"
CR ." BIT-SET \ ( base bit# -- ) set a bit"
CR ." BIT-FLIP \ ( base bit# -- ) flip a bit"
CR ." NETWORK@ \ ( -- ) what's my ID, with how many are we?"
CR ." ?FILE \ ( error# -- ) Default error handler for file I/O"
CR ." PAD$ \ create: ( u -- ) use: ( -- addr )"
CR ." NPAD$ \ ( size -- ) "
CR ." RINGBUFFER \ ( number_8K_buffers -- ) ( -- addr )"
CR ." CELLPACK \ ( c-addr1 u1 addr2 -- addr2 )"
CR ." CELLPLACE+ \ ( c-addr1 u a2 -- )"
CR ." CELLCHAR+ \ ( char addr -- )"
CR
CR ." $TEMP \ ( c-addr1 u1 -- c-addr2 u2 )"
CR ." $FREE \ ( c-addr2 u2 -- )"
CR .~ OVERWRITES \ ( c-addr u "name" -- ) uses (overw) ( c-addr u c-addr2 u2 -- c-addr3 u3 )~
CR .~ $+TO \ ( c-addr u "name" -- ) uses (addto) ( c-addr u c-addr2 u2 -- c-addr3 u3 )~
CR
CR .~ MULTI-LINE \ ( quote "ccc<quote>" -- str len ) Limited to 4096 characters~
CR ." C!+ C+!+ D+!+ \ ( <type> addr1 -- addr2 )"
CR ." CHAR-APPEND \ ( c-addr u c -- c-addr2 u2 )"
CR ." CHAR-PREPEND \ ( c-addr u c -- c-addr2 u2 )"
CR ." CPLACE+ \ ( char addr -- )"
CR ." Split-At-WS \ ( addr1 n1 -- addr1 n2 addr1+n2 n1-n2 )"
CR ." Split-At-Char \ ( addr1 n1 char -- addr1 n2 addr1+n2 n1-n2 )"
CR ." Split-At-Char-NC \ ( addr1 n1 char -- addr1 n2 addr1+n2 n1-n2 ) not case-sensitive"
CR ." Split-At-LastChar \ ( addr1 n1 char -- addr1 n2 addr1+n2 n1-n2 )"
CR ." Split-At-LastChar-NC \ ( addr1 n1 char -- addr1 n2 addr1+n2 n1-n2 ) not case-sensitive"
CR ." Split-At-Word \ ( addr1 n1 addr2 n2 -- addr1 n3 addr1+n4 n1-n4 )"
CR ." Split-At-Word-NC \ ( addr1 n1 addr2 n2 -- addr1 n3 addr1+n4 n1-n4 ) not case-sensitive"
CR ." -LEADING \ ( c-addr u -- c-addr2 u2 )"
CR ." -LEADING-WS \ ( c-addr u -- c-addr2 u2 )"
CR ." -TRAILING-WS \ ( c-addr u -- c-addr2 u2 )"
CR
CR .~ MACRO% \ ( "param1" ... "paramn" -- ) Macro creation word allowing parameter insertion if "%" found.~
CR ." LOOP~ LOOP[ \ ( end start -- ) use % to insert compile-time loop index"
CR ." +LOOP~ +LOOP[ \ ( end start step -- ) use % to insert compile-time loop index"
CR
CR ." ?EXIT ?LEAVE"
CR
CR ." -- system --"
CR ." KILL-PROCESS \ ( c-addr u -- bool ) Kill program
CR ." QUERY-PROCESS \ ( c-addr u -- bool ) interrogate process
CR ." _PID" \ ( -- c-addr u ) return PID as string
CR ." SHAREDMEM \ ( c-addr u sz -- addr ) ask for a name shared memory segment of size = sz"
CR ." UNSHARED \ ( addr -- ) release shared memory"
CR ." HIDE-CONSOLE \ minimize window"
CR ." SHOW-CONSOLE \ raise window"
CR
CR ." -- debug --"
CR ." ]^^[ \ executing: show compiled line#, stacks (rstack if rstackdump? = TRUE), wait for not ^Q"
CR ." ^^ \ compilation: compile current line#, and call to (^^)."
CR .~ ?^^ \ compiles "IF ^^ ENDIF"~
CR ." #^^ \ ( n -- ) compiles n instead of line#"
CR
CR ." -- relative file paths --"
CR ." CD$ \ ( -- c-addr u ) Current working directory"
CR ." ONLY-PATH \ ( c-addr u1 -- c-addr u2 ) Only path"
CR ." ONLY-FILENAME \ ( c-addr u1 -- c-addr u2 ) Only filename"
CR ." ONLY-BASEFILENAME \ ( c-addr1 u1 -- c-addr2 u2 ) filename without extension ( .xxxxxx )"
CR ." FILE-HERE \ ( -- c-addr u ) The name (without path) of the file currently being interpreted"
CR ." PATH-HERE \ ( -- c-addr u ) The dirpath to the file currently being interpreted"
CR ." +INCLUDED \ ( c-addr u -- ) INCLUDE the file (c-addr u), in the same directory as the current file"
CR .~ +INCLUDE \ ( "name" -- ) Parsing version of +INCLUDED~
CR ." FILE-EXISTS? \ ( c-addr u -- TRUE=exists ) TRUE if the file exists (See: FILE-STATUS)."
CR ." FILE-TIME \ ( c-addr u -- ftime|0 ) 100ns increments since the last write to this file (0 is probably FILE NOT FOUND)."
CR ." FILE-BIRTH \ ( c-addr u -- u ) Alias for FILE-TIME"
CR ." UNTAB \ ( c-addr u -- addr2 u2 ) remove TABs from this string (note: in-place!)"
CR ." /SLASHING \ ( c-addr u -- addr2 u2 ) normalize to Linux slashes (note: in-place!)"
CR ." \SLASHING \ ( c-addr u -- addr2 u2 ) normalize to Windows slashes (note: in-place!)"
CR ." UNSLASH \ ( c-addr u -- addr2 u2 ) according to the OS, exchange '\' and '/' in this path-string (note: in-place!)"
CR ." UNQUOTE \ ( c-addr u -- addr2 u2 ) Remove a leading and trailing double quote character"
CR ." +QUOTES? \ ( c-addr u -- addr2 u2 ) Add a leading and trailing double quote character if there is none"
CR .~ UNEXE \ ( c-addr u -- addr2 u2 ) Remove a trailing ".exe" string~
CR .~ +SLASH? \ ( c-addr u -- addr2 u2 ) Add a trailing "\" or "/" when it is not there yet~
CR ." SLURP-FILE \ ( c-addr u -- addr2 u2 ) The location addr2 is transient"
CR ." SLURP-FILE(1) \ ( c-addr u -- addr2 u2 ) Skips space at HERE (2 slurps), also: SLURP-FILE(2) and (3)"
CR
CR .~ $" \ ( 'cccc' -- addr ) compile string, leave address~
CR .~ :INLINE \ ( "text ;" -- ) define hybrid text macro. Not WORDLIST safe~
CR ." PLACE+ \ ( c-addr u 'sum$ -- ) add string to sum"
CR ." $+ \ ( c-addr1 u1 c-addr2 u2 -- c-addr3 u3 ) add str2 to str1. Result str3 is member of a bufferpool"
CR ." $>UPC \ ( c-addr u -- c-addr u ) convert (in place) to uppercase"
CR ." $>LWC \ ( c-addr u -- c-addr u ) convert (in place) to lowercase"
CR ." ZCOUNT \ ( zaddr -- addr u ) length of a C-string"
CR
CR ." LOCATE name find file and source line for `name'"
CR ." HEAD' name LOCATED alternative syntax"
CR .~ S" name" $LOCATE alternative syntax~
CR ." INSPECT after a successful LOCATE, jump to file at line"
CR ." /locate-context the number of lines actually printed"
CR
CR ." WHERE name ??? \ ( -- ) reads name from input and searches files for whitespace limited 'name'."
CR ." WHERE+ name ??? \ ( -- ) reads name from input and searches files for 'name'."
CR ." $WHERE ??? \ ( a l -- ) searches files for a text string given"
CR ." list files and matches, you can press ESC to exit, CASESENSITIVE is respected, ??? can be"
CR ." empty old style behaviour, search all files visited by LOCATE (excluding kernel source)"
CR ." * search the complete dfwforth directory tree."
CR ." directory any dfwforth subdirectory."
CR ." TREE-WALKER ( <baseaddr> <baselen> <maskaddr> <masklen> xt par -- ), see DOC in miscutil" ;

On Tuesday, July 25, 2023 at 10:26:20 AM UTC-5, minforth wrote:
>
> It would be trivial to use this for character arrays or strings. But I
> never exhausted my small circular string buffer. Given that most strings
> are anyhow small compared to available memory, a separate string stack
> seems a rather superfluous tool.

(Beating the dead horse)
I've been getting by well with string ring buffer.
Have a string stack since time of the flood but
have never needed it. Many years ago I was impressed
with string headers, most powerful but with
cost of three cells; consider them overkill for
run-of-mill jobs. Forced myself to use them some
awhile back just because they were there.
Strings in Forth generally are a no-brainer with
plethora ways of building and dealing with them.
Choosing a standard string is a can of worms that
I can elect to avoid.
--
me

In article <3a10d701-d8b2-4fda-8a27-b9bf9d3461can@googlegroups.com>,
Marcel Hendrix <mhx@iae.nl> wrote:
>On Tuesday, July 25, 2023 at 11:17:18 AM UTC+2, none albert wrote:
>[..]
>> A tool can make into my library if it has been (!) used more
>> than 3 times, and occupies at most 3 screens.
>>
>> $@ $! $+! $C+ fits in one screen and it doesn't burden the
>> memory. With $^ find-char-position $/ slash-from-the-front
>> and $\ slash-from-the back I happily analyse the comma separated
>> transaction lists from my bank for my taxes.
>
>I've noticed that there are words one doesn't miss unless one sees
>other use it. Here's a small selection from iForth's miscutil.frt .
>In the process of writing iSPICE I needed many other string/parsing
>words, but these are still in purgatory.
>
>:ABOUT
>??CR ." -- low-precision timing --"
>CR ." TIMER-RESET \ ( -- )"
>CR ." TIMER-PRESET \ ( u -- ) offset for .elapsed"
>CR ." ?MS \ ( -- u ) ms since machine turned on"

<SNIP>

>CR ." * search the complete dfwforth directory tree."
>CR ." directory any dfwforth subdirectory."
>CR ." TREE-WALKER ( <baseaddr> <baselen> <maskaddr> <masklen> xt par
>-- ), see DOC in miscutil" ;

All useful words but at any given time 90% are not needed.
I prefer to tuck these stuff in a block file and then say
WANT TICKS
if I need the word TICKS.
(I have pontificated about additional advantages about WANT before.)
>
>-marcel
--
Don't praise the day before the evening. One swallow doesn't make spring.
You must not say "hey" before you have crossed the bridge. Don't sell the
hide of the bear until you shot it. Better one bird in the hand than ten in
the air. First gain is a cat spinning. - the Wise from Antrim -

On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 1:25:19 PM UTC+2, none albert wrote:
[..]
> >CR ." TREE-WALKER ( <baseaddr> <baselen> <maskaddr> <masklen> xt par
> >-- ), see DOC in miscutil" ;
> All useful words but at any given time 90% are not needed.
> I prefer to tuck these stuff in a block file and then say
> WANT TICKS
> if I need the word TICKS.
> (I have pontificated about additional advantages about WANT before.)

What I've also noted (and suffer from myself) is that even a tiny obstacle
(having to load a screen or typing 'WANT sumthin') causes some people
to choose a more lengthy and clumsy solution (e.g. most teenagers
nowadays access several levels of menus to 'Copy' and 'Paste' instead
of using control keys). Consequently, I preload everything that doesn't
need a manual, and all useful words display help texts when they load
last in the queue.

-marcel

On Monday, July 24, 2023 at 1:17:46 AM UTC-7, none albert wrote:
> In article <7d943c24-0236-47ff...@googlegroups.com>,
> Hugh Aguilar <hughag...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >Well, I sent a message to that contact page.
> >I have already told Stephen Pelc multiple times to stop distributing
> >my software against my will and he has not complied. I doubt that
> >there is anybody at Forth-200x who can overrule him.
> Given that it was original distributed under a free license
> you cannot "tell" people anything. You can politely ask to
> not distribute, but that's all.

I got an email from Peter Forth and he politely asked that he continue
to be allowed to distribute my novice package, and he insisted that
he is not associated with the Forth-200x committee in any way,
so I agreed that he can continue doing distributing it.

When Stephen Pelc insulted me, saying that anybody can write
a better string-stack than I can and some anonymous African
did write a far superior string-stack thirty years ago, I resolved
to never provide Stephen Pelc with my source-code. I forgot that
I had already allowed Peter Forth to post my source-code on
his website, so Stephen Pelc has most likely already got it.

It occurs to me that, having my novice package publicly
available helps to prevent Stephen Pelc from making any
part of it (such as the string-stack) proprietary to MPE.

Note that Peter Forth doesn't claim that he can
"rip my NOVICE package to the last byte" against my will.
It is only soulless maintenance programmers who strive to rip off
software written by real programmers --- Hell is full of such --- c.l.f. too.

On Sunday, February 26, 2023 at 7:37:35 AM UTC-7, Hans Bezemer wrote:
> On Sunday, February 26, 2023 at 12:26:27 AM UTC+1, Hugh Aguilar wrote:
> > I can't associate with soulless maintenance programmers such as DXforth,
> > Albert van der Horst, Hans Bezemer, etc.. This just gives Tom Hart the
> > opportunity to say: "Birds of a feather stick together." Guilt by association!
> Let me begin this by publicly stating that I don't want, need, require or ask
> for any association with you in any way, shape or form. So relax.
> ...
> But I'm not a maintenance programmer.
> ...
> But maybe now you understand why I don't care about you, Hugh. Or anything
> you say about me. Or make me stop what I'm doing. To me, you're just a nobody
> with a crazy opinion I don't care for.
>
> Hans Bezemer
>
> BTW, I can rip your NOVICE package till the last byte. You clearly released it under
> the BSD license - and you can't revoke that. You can change the license on the next
> version, but not the previous one.

On 27/07/2023 8:46 am, Hugh Aguilar wrote:
> ...
> I got an email from Peter Forth and he politely asked that he continue
> to be allowed to distribute my novice package, and he insisted that
> he is not associated with the Forth-200x committee in any way,
> so I agreed that he can continue doing distributing it.

What of updates? An out of date and/or buggy 'novice pack' will either
dissuade use or result in attempts to fix it by third parties.

In article <15e0cc0c-64af-49d6-8047-dda75537a72bn@googlegroups.com>,
Marcel Hendrix <mhx@iae.nl> wrote:
>On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 1:25:19 PM UTC+2, none albert wrote:
>[..]
>> >CR ." TREE-WALKER ( <baseaddr> <baselen> <maskaddr> <masklen> xt par
>> >-- ), see DOC in miscutil" ;
>> All useful words but at any given time 90% are not needed.
>> I prefer to tuck these stuff in a block file and then say
>> WANT TICKS
>> if I need the word TICKS.
>> (I have pontificated about additional advantages about WANT before.)
>
>What I've also noted (and suffer from myself) is that even a tiny obstacle
>(having to load a screen or typing 'WANT sumthin') causes some people
>to choose a more lengthy and clumsy solution (e.g. most teenagers
>nowadays access several levels of menus to 'Copy' and 'Paste' instead
>of using control keys). Consequently, I preload everything that doesn't
>need a manual, and all useful words display help texts when they load
>last in the queue.

Therefore if you start lina normally (lina -e) you get the advise
"
TYPE "WANT AUTOLOAD" for automatic loading.
"
Future versions will have the -n (newbie) options that does
^E ( electives ) LOAD
WANTED AUTOLOAD

(Granted AUTOLOAD may fail sometimes.)

Your scheme fails under the circumstance that different configurations
are wanted.
For example the noforth folks need an absolute adherence to
non-written conventions, that ciforth may not adhere to.
That is available by
WANT -traditional-
without interference with other stuff that is available.

The granular structure of a block library make it possible
to have one library for 32/64 bit linux/mswindows/mac.
(Pontificating again ...)
>
>-marcel
--
Don't praise the day before the evening. One swallow doesn't make spring.
You must not say "hey" before you have crossed the bridge. Don't sell the
hide of the bear until you shot it. Better one bird in the hand than ten in
the air. First gain is a cat spinning. - the Wise from Antrim -

On Thursday, July 27, 2023 at 5:06:28 PM UTC+2, none albert wrote:
[..]
> The granular structure of a block library make it possible
> to have one library for 32/64 bit linux/mswindows/mac.

I like the concept, but the implementation is based on hardware
details that are completely irrelevant by today's state of the art.

-marcel

In article <4da35c81-c287-4d0a-9484-9b98628c4da7n@googlegroups.com>,
Marcel Hendrix <mhx@iae.nl> wrote:
>On Thursday, July 27, 2023 at 5:06:28 PM UTC+2, none albert wrote:
>[..]
>> The granular structure of a block library make it possible
>> to have one library for 32/64 bit linux/mswindows/mac.
>
>I like the concept, but the implementation is based on hardware
>details that are completely irrelevant by today's state of the art.

Hardware??? It is a maintenance issue.

>
>-marcel
--
Don't praise the day before the evening. One swallow doesn't make spring.
You must not say "hey" before you have crossed the bridge. Don't sell the
hide of the bear until you shot it. Better one bird in the hand than ten in
the air. First gain is a cat spinning. - the Wise from Antrim -

On Friday, July 28, 2023 at 10:22:46 AM UTC+2, none albert wrote:
[..]
> >> The granular structure of a block library make it possible
> >> to have one library for 32/64 bit linux/mswindows/mac.
> >
> >I like the concept, but the implementation is based on hardware
> >details that are completely irrelevant by today's state of the art.
> Hardware??? It is a maintenance issue.

Oh, sorry, I thought you were using blocks with 16 lines of 64
characters.

-marcel

In article <1f040381-6c14-40d4-88a6-323a145b55e5n@googlegroups.com>,
Marcel Hendrix <mhx@iae.nl> wrote:
>On Friday, July 28, 2023 at 10:22:46 AM UTC+2, none albert wrote:
>[..]
>> >> The granular structure of a block library make it possible
>> >> to have one library for 32/64 bit linux/mswindows/mac.
>> >
>> >I like the concept, but the implementation is based on hardware
>> >details that are completely irrelevant by today's state of the art.
>> Hardware??? It is a maintenance issue.
>
>Oh, sorry, I thought you were using blocks with 16 lines of 64
>characters.

I do. That is a practical size. I bet that the size of the drawers
in your home is within 20% of the size of the drawers in mine.
My bicycles are about the same size than 1900's bicycles.

>
>-marcel

Groetjes Albert
--
Don't praise the day before the evening. One swallow doesn't make spring.
You must not say "hey" before you have crossed the bridge. Don't sell the
hide of the bear until you shot it. Better one bird in the hand than ten in
the air. First gain is a cat spinning. - the Wise from Antrim -

albert@cherry.(none) (albert) writes:
> Marcel Hendrix <mhx@iae.nl> wrote:
> >Oh, sorry, I thought you were using blocks with 16 lines of 64
> >characters.
> I do. That is a practical size. I bet that the size of the drawers
> in your home is within 20% of the size of the drawers in mine.
> My bicycles are about the same size than 1900's bicycles.

16 lines of 64 chars always seemed a little cramped to me, even though
the 1k size fits nicely on a pair of (floppy) sectors. CRT terminals
settled upon 80x24 (or 80x25) which is probably a better indicator of the
"ANSI standard drawer size" for displays. Thus ForthOS went with 80x25
with the shadow screen built in and 96 bytes at the end for filesystem
metadata (i.e., 4k blocks).

Wasteful? Sure. But not wasteful enough to matter on any platform
ForthOS could run upon. It's a 32-bit OS, so Apple ]['s were not an
issue.

Andy Valencia
Home page: https://www.vsta.org/andy/
To contact me: https://www.vsta.org/contact/andy.html

On 4/08/2023 2:17 am, Andy Valencia wrote:
> albert@cherry.(none) (albert) writes:
>> Marcel Hendrix <mhx@iae.nl> wrote:
>>> Oh, sorry, I thought you were using blocks with 16 lines of 64
>>> characters.
>> I do. That is a practical size. I bet that the size of the drawers
>> in your home is within 20% of the size of the drawers in mine.
>> My bicycles are about the same size than 1900's bicycles.
>
> 16 lines of 64 chars always seemed a little cramped to me, even though
> the 1k size fits nicely on a pair of (floppy) sectors. CRT terminals
> settled upon 80x24 (or 80x25) which is probably a better indicator of the
> "ANSI standard drawer size" for displays. Thus ForthOS went with 80x25
> with the shadow screen built in and 96 bytes at the end for filesystem
> metadata (i.e., 4k blocks).

Even 80x25 has gone the way of the dodo. Back in the day apps came
with configuration programs as terminals varied a lot (128 cols with
52 visible for the Osborne 1). Tying an app to 80 cols risked losing
sales. 64 isn't a bad fit for forth, being less reliant on indenting
than other languages.