Hello, I'm Antoni from Barcelona, just a newbie.
Thinking how to enhance gforth's console output, i stumbled on the ASCII big lettering generator figlet, it's online here so you can reate your own texts and choose and copy/paste the lettering that fits to your program.
https://www.askapache.com/online-tools/figlet-ascii/
So I copied and pasted one output of figlet in my code and made a word to handle it. It does'nt clip the text if it goes out of screen.
\ --------------------------------

create powered 8 ,
S" ______ _ _ ______ _ _ " 2,
S" | ___ \ | | | | ___| | | | | " 2,
S" | |_/ /____ _____ _ __ ___ __| | |__ _ _| |_ ___ _ __| |_| |__ " 2,
S" | __/ _ \ \ /\ / / _ \ '__/ _ \/ _` | '_ \| | | | _/ _ \| '__| __| '_ \ " 2,
S" | | | (_) \ V V / __/ | | __/ (_| | |_) | |_| | || (_) | | | |_| | | |" 2,
S" \_| \___/ \_/\_/ \___|_| \___|\__,_|_.__/ \__, \_| \___/|_| \__|_| |_|" 2,
S" __/ | " 2,
S" |___/ " 2,

: .logo ( x y txt -- )
dup @ 0 do -rot 2dup i + at-xy rot dup cell + i cells 2* + 2@ type loop 2drop drop ;

page
4 4 powered .logo
5 15 powered .logo
\ ----------------------------
hope you like it
Antonio

On 1/10/2023 8:53 pm, Antoni Gual Via wrote:
> Hello, I'm Antoni from Barcelona, just a newbie.
> Thinking how to enhance gforth's console output, i stumbled on the ASCII big lettering generator figlet, it's online here so you can reate your own texts and choose and copy/paste the lettering that fits to your program.
> https://www.askapache.com/online-tools/figlet-ascii/
> So I copied and pasted one output of figlet in my code and made a word to handle it. It does'nt clip the text if it goes out of screen.

It's also gforth-specific. A nice exercise would be to make it portable :)

Le lundi 2 octobre 2023 à 02:17:44 UTC+2, dxf a écrit :
> On 1/10/2023 8:53 pm, Antoni Gual Via wrote:
> > Hello, I'm Antoni from Barcelona, just a newbie.
> > Thinking how to enhance gforth's console output, i stumbled on the ASCII big lettering generator figlet, it's online here so you can reate your own texts and choose and copy/paste the lettering that fits to your program.
> > https://www.askapache.com/online-tools/figlet-ascii/
> > So I copied and pasted one output of figlet in my code and made a word to handle it. It does'nt clip the text if it goes out of screen.
> It's also gforth-specific. A nice exercise would be to make it portable :)

having also figlet an gforth you can call figlet system side
s" figlet TITLE > /dev/shm/title.txt" system ok
s" /dev/shm/title.txt" cr slurp-file type cr
_____ ___ _____ _ _____
|_ _|_ _|_ _| | | ____|
| | | | | | | | | _|
| | | | | | | |___| |___
|_| |___| |_| |_____|_____|

ok
BUT this method is also both gforth & system dependant

On Monday, October 2, 2023 at 12:22:14 PM UTC+2, gobli...@gmail.com wrote:
[..]
> BUT this method is also both gforth & system dependant

Amusing. Why is it gForth dependent (leave off /shmem/ to remove
OS-dependency)?
___ ___ ___ ___ ___
___ /\ \ /\ \ /\ \ /\ \ /\__\
/\ \ /::\ \ /::\ \ /::\ \ \:\ \ /:/ /
\:\ \ /:/\:\ \ /:/\:\ \ /:/\:\ \ \:\ \ /:/__/
/::\__\ /::\~\:\ \ /:/ \:\ \ /::\~\:\ \ /::\ \ /::\ \ ___
__/:/\/__/ /:/\:\ \:\__\ /:/__/ \:\__\ /:/\:\ \:\__\ /:/\:\__\ /:/\:\ /\__\
/\/:/ / \/__\:\ \/__/ \:\ \ /:/ / \/_|::\/:/ / /:/ \/__/ \/__\:\/:/ /
\::/__/ \:\__\ \:\ /:/ / |:|::/ / /:/ / \::/ /
\:\__\ \/__/ \:\/:/ / |:|\/__/ \/__/ /:/ /
\/__/ \::/ / |:| | /:/ /
\/__/ \|__| \/__/

On 3/10/2023 2:21 am, Marcel Hendrix wrote:
> On Monday, October 2, 2023 at 12:22:14 PM UTC+2, gobli...@gmail.com wrote:
> [..]
>> BUT this method is also both gforth & system dependant
>
> Amusing. Why is it gForth dependent (leave off /shmem/ to remove
> OS-dependency)?

Multiple persistent S" strings outside a definition.

El dia dimarts, 3 d’octubre de 2023 a les 1:13:35 UTC+2, dxf va escriure:

> Multiple persistent S" strings outside a definition.
This is the third time I try to answer. I could open the thread but my answers are blocked, I don't know why...

@dxforth
Thanks for your advice. I have found a thread at reddit that gives alternative solutions. I'll try them this week end.
Antonio

On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 1:07:15 PM UTC+2, Antoni Gual Via wrote:
I got a library that does banners: https://sourceforge.net/p/forth-4th/code/HEAD/tree/trunk/4th.src/lib/banners.4th
You may not like the font, but it is what it is.

If a font has a fixed with, you may select the letters by making some very large string and clip 'em. I used
that technique with digits here (sorry: no Forth)..

https://sourceforge.net/p/forth-4th/code/HEAD/tree/trunk/4th.src/apps/basic/clock.bas

Hans Bezemer

On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 10:44:19 PM UTC+5:30, Hans Bezemer wrote:
> On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 1:07:15 PM UTC+2, Antoni Gual Via wrote:
> I got a library that does banners: https://sourceforge.net/p/forth-4th/code/HEAD/tree/trunk/4th.src/lib/banners.4th
> You may not like the font, but it is what it is.
>
> If a font has a fixed with, you may select the letters by making some very large string and clip 'em. I used
> that technique with digits here (sorry: no Forth)..
>
> https://sourceforge.net/p/forth-4th/code/HEAD/tree/trunk/4th.src/apps/basic/clock.bas
>
> Hans Bezemer
https://www.quickbookintegration.com

Hello Hans
I tried to run the banner library but it had some words specific to 4th, I will have to install it.
No problem with Basic, I have been using VBA and VBS for the last 20 years. In fact some of the VBS entries in Rosetta Code are mine.
I'm wrong or uBasic is programmed in Forth?
Antoni

On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 1:14:19 PM UTC-4, Hans Bezemer wrote:
> I got a library that does banners: https://sourceforge.net/p/forth-4th/code/HEAD/tree/trunk/4th.src/lib/banners.4th
> You may not like the font, but it is what it is.

I expect many Forths have graphics libraries that allow using any size font (and any font) one desires.
The text is easily directed to either the screen or the printer.
Of course this is not, and never will be, standardized.

In MFonVFX:

new.window TestW
50 50 400 1700 TestW w.bounds \ gives a 16 inch wide by 3.5 inch tall window

: drawTestW
200 _TextSize
c" Helvetica" get.font.number TextFont
outline textface
50 250 moveto
s" poweredByForth" DrawText ; \ 15.25 inches wide by 2.25 inches high text

TestW on.update drawTestW
TestW add.window

-Doug

On Thursday, October 5, 2023 at 8:47:37 AM UTC+2, Antoni Gual Via wrote:
> Hello Hans
> I tried to run the banner library but it had some words specific to 4th, I will have to install it.
No, you don't. I nicked the original from F-PC (much easier to adapt). So here it is. It does the same.
It's tested on Gforth and runs just fine.

---8<---
\ BANNER.SEQ Compliments of F83X mod to sequential by Tom Zimmer

CREATE CHAR-MATRIX \ build the character generator
HEX ( ) 00 C, 00 C, 00 C, 00 C, 00 C, 00 C, 00 C, 00 C,
( !) 20 C, 20 C, 20 C, 20 C, 20 C, 00 C, 20 C, 00 C,
( ") 50 C, 50 C, 50 C, 00 C, 00 C, 00 C, 00 C, 00 C,
( #) 50 C, 50 C, F8 C, 50 C, F8 C, 50 C, 50 C, 00 C,
( $) 20 C, 78 C, A0 C, 70 C, 28 C, F0 C, 20 C, 00 C,
( %) C0 C, C8 C, 10 C, 20 C, 40 C, 98 C, 18 C, 00 C,
( &) 40 C, A0 C, A0 C, 40 C, A8 C, 90 C, 68 C, 00 C,
( ') 30 C, 30 C, 10 C, 20 C, 00 C, 00 C, 00 C, 00 C,
( () 20 C, 40 C, 80 C, 80 C, 80 C, 40 C, 20 C, 00 C,
( ) 20 C, 10 C, 08 C, 08 C, 08 C, 10 C, 20 C, 00 C,
( *) 20 C, a8 C, 70 C, 20 C, 70 C, a8 C, 20 C, 00 C,
( +) 00 C, 20 C, 20 C, 70 C, 20 C, 20 C, 00 C, 00 C,
( ,) 00 C, 00 C, 00 C, 30 C, 30 C, 10 C, 20 C, 00 C,
( -) 00 C, 00 C, 00 C, 70 C, 00 C, 00 C, 00 C, 00 C,
( .) 00 C, 00 C, 00 C, 00 C, 00 C, 30 C, 30 C, 00 C,
( /) 00 C, 08 C, 10 C, 20 C, 40 C, 80 C, 00 C, 00 C,
( 0) 70 C, 88 C, 98 C, A8 C, C8 C, 88 C, 70 C, 00 C,
( 1) 20 C, 60 C, 20 C, 20 C, 20 C, 20 C, 70 C, 00 C,
( 2) 70 C, 88 C, 08 C, 30 C, 40 C, 80 C, F8 C, 00 C,
( 3) F8 C, 10 C, 20 C, 30 C, 08 C, 88 C, 70 C, 00 C,
( 4) 10 C, 30 C, 50 C, 90 C, F8 C, 10 C, 10 C, 00 C,
( 5) F8 C, 80 C, F0 C, 08 C, 08 C, 88 C, 70 C, 00 C,
( 6) 38 C, 40 C, 80 C, F0 C, 88 C, 88 C, 70 C, 00 C,
( 7) F8 C, 08 C, 10 C, 20 C, 40 C, 40 C, 40 C, 00 C,
( 8) 70 C, 88 C, 88 C, 70 C, 88 C, 88 C, 70 C, 00 C,
( 9) 70 C, 88 C, 88 C, 78 C, 08 C, 10 C, E0 C, 00 C,
( :) 00 C, 60 C, 60 C, 00 C, 60 C, 60 C, 00 C, 00 C,
( ;) 00 C, 60 C, 60 C, 00 C, 60 C, 60 C, 40 C, 00 C,
( <) 10 C, 20 C, 40 C, 80 C, 40 C, 20 C, 10 C, 00 C,
( =) 00 C, 00 C, F8 C, 00 C, F8 C, 00 C, 00 C, 00 C,
( >) 40 C, 20 C, 10 C, 08 C, 10 C, 20 C, 40 C, 00 C,
( ?) 70 C, 88 C, 10 C, 20 C, 20 C, 00 C, 20 C, 00 C,
( @) 70 C, 88 C, A8 C, B8 C, B0 C, 80 C, 78 C, 00 C,
( A) 20 C, 70 C, 88 C, 88 C, F8 C, 88 C, 88 C, 00 C,
( B) F0 C, 88 C, 88 C, F0 C, 88 C, 88 C, F0 C, 00 C,
( C) 70 C, 88 C, 80 C, 80 C, 80 C, 88 C, 70 C, 00 C,
( D) F0 C, 48 C, 48 C, 48 C, 48 C, 48 C, F0 C, 00 C,
( E) F8 C, 80 C, 80 C, F0 C, 80 C, 80 C, F8 C, 00 C,
( F) F8 C, 80 C, 80 C, F0 C, 80 C, 80 C, 80 C, 00 C,
( G) 78 C, 80 C, 80 C, 80 C, 98 C, 88 C, 78 C, 00 C,
( H) 88 C, 88 C, 88 C, F8 C, 88 C, 88 C, 88 C, 00 C,
( I) 70 C, 20 C, 20 C, 20 C, 20 C, 20 C, 70 C, 00 C,
( J) 08 C, 08 C, 08 C, 08 C, 08 C, 88 C, 78 C, 00 C,
( K) 88 C, 90 C, A0 C, C0 C, A0 C, 90 C, 88 C, 00 C,
( L) 80 C, 80 C, 80 C, 80 C, 80 C, 80 C, F8 C, 00 C,
( M) 88 C, D8 C, A8 C, A8 C, 88 C, 88 C, 88 C, 00 C,
( N) 88 C, 88 C, C8 C, A8 C, 98 C, 88 C, 88 C, 00 C,
( O) 70 C, 88 C, 88 C, 88 C, 88 C, 88 C, 70 C, 00 C,
( P) F0 C, 88 C, 88 C, F0 C, 80 C, 80 C, 80 C, 00 C,
( Q) 70 C, 88 C, 88 C, 88 C, A8 C, 90 C, 68 C, 00 C,
( R) F0 C, 88 C, 88 C, F0 C, A0 C, 90 C, 88 C, 00 C,
( S) 70 C, 88 C, 80 C, 70 C, 08 C, 88 C, 70 C, 00 C,
( T) F8 C, 20 C, 20 C, 20 C, 20 C, 20 C, 20 C, 00 C,
( U) 88 C, 88 C, 88 C, 88 C, 88 C, 88 C, 70 C, 00 C,
( V) 88 C, 88 C, 88 C, 88 C, 88 C, 50 C, 20 C, 00 C,
( W) 88 C, 88 C, 88 C, A8 C, A8 C, D8 C, 88 C, 00 C,
( X) 88 C, 88 C, 50 C, 20 C, 50 C, 88 C, 88 C, 00 C,
( Y) 88 C, 88 C, 50 C, 20 C, 20 C, 20 C, 20 C, 00 C,
( Z) F8 C, 08 C, 10 C, 20 C, 40 C, 80 C, F8 C, 00 C,
( [) 78 C, 40 C, 40 C, 40 C, 40 C, 40 C, 78 C, 00 C,
( \) 00 C, 80 C, 40 C, 20 C, 10 C, 08 C, 00 C, 00 C,
( ]) F0 C, 10 C, 10 C, 10 C, 10 C, 10 C, F0 C, 00 C,
( ^) 00 C, 00 C, 20 C, 50 C, 88 C, 00 C, 00 C, 00 C,
( _) 00 C, 00 C, 00 C, 00 C, 00 C, 00 C, 00 C, F8 C,

DECIMAL

CREATE BITS ( --- a1 )
128 C, 64 C, 32 C, 16 C, 8 C, 4 C, 2 C, 1 C,

: BIT ( N1 --- F1 )
BITS + C@ AND 0= 1+ ;

: LC>UC ( c -- )
DUP 96 128 WITHIN 32 AND - ;

: BANNER ( a n -- )
BOUNDS 8 0
DO CR 2DUP
?DO I C@ 127 AND LC>UC 32 -
8 * CHAR-MATRIX + J + C@
7 0
DO DUP I BIT
IF [CHAR] #
ELSE BL
THEN EMIT
LOOP DROP
LOOP
LOOP 2DROP ;

: DEMO ( --- ) \ print demonstration message
CR
" WELCOME" BANNER
" TO F-PC" BANNER
CR
" BANNER" BANNER
" PROGRAM" BANNER
" FROM F83X" BANNER ;
DEMO

---8<---

> No problem with Basic, I have been using VBA and VBS for the last 20 years. In fact some of the VBS entries in Rosetta Code are mine.
> I'm wrong or uBasic is programmed in Forth?
Yeah, it's written in 4tH. I started out with a (somewhat flawed) C framework,
ironed out the bugs, made a few additions (like <, =, > and # work like operators,
do a computed GOTO) and then added an array, a stack, an extended FOR..NEXT,
functions, user defined functions, local variables, strings, files and error handling.

In the meanwhile I've incorporated so many 4tH stuff it's practically impossible to
backport the whole shebang back to its C roots.

The fun part for me was that I never tried to emulate the traditional constructs. E.g.
DO.. LOOP is essentially FOR..NEXT with a few extensions. There are no dedicated
string variables. If you assign a string to a variable, it simply stores its address with
an additional flag. Parameters to functions are passed using the user stack.. DIM a(10)
doesn't create a new array, it just partitions the (single) existing array. And so on.

It makes for a very quirky language, but it's quite capable. It is, of course, limited by
its restrictions. E.g. the Damm algorithm can be expressed surprisingly compact:
https://www.rosettacode.org/wiki/Damm_algorithm#uBasic/4tH

The source code is here: https://sourceforge.net/p/forth-4th/code/HEAD/tree/trunk/4th.src/ubasic.4th

Don't try to port it - unless you got tons of time and patience - it heavily depends
on 4tH and it's libs.

Hans Bezemer

On Thursday, October 5, 2023 at 12:19:56 PM UTC-4, Hans Bezemer wrote:

> CR
> " WELCOME" BANNER
> " TO F-PC" BANNER
> CR
> " BANNER" BANNER
> " PROGRAM" BANNER
> " FROM F83X" BANNER ;

Replace, e.,g., [ " WELCOME" ] with [ s" WELCOME" ]
and then it will compile and run on Gforth 0.7.3

The unsophisticated output reminds me of when
I was a first year student at the university (1972) and
someone had written a Fortran program to print a
"picture" of a centerfold. The picture was less than
satisfactory but perhaps made for an interesting
programming exercise for someone. :-)

-Doug

On Thursday, October 5, 2023 at 8:47:24 PM UTC+2, Doug Hoffman wrote:
> On Thursday, October 5, 2023 at 12:19:56 PM UTC-4, Hans Bezemer wrote:
>
> > CR
> > " WELCOME" BANNER
> > " TO F-PC" BANNER
> > CR
> > " BANNER" BANNER
> > " PROGRAM" BANNER
> > " FROM F83X" BANNER ;
> Replace, e.,g., [ " WELCOME" ] with [ s" WELCOME" ]
> and then it will compile and run on Gforth 0.7.3
Oops, sorry - forgot that one!

I ran it on Gforth 0.7.9_20230726. Second conversion - thought I
caught them all, but forgot that one. Thx, Doug!

Hans Bezemer

On 6/10/2023 7:56 am, Hans Bezemer wrote:
> On Thursday, October 5, 2023 at 8:47:24 PM UTC+2, Doug Hoffman wrote:
>> On Thursday, October 5, 2023 at 12:19:56 PM UTC-4, Hans Bezemer wrote:
>>
>>> CR
>>> " WELCOME" BANNER
>>> " TO F-PC" BANNER
>>> CR
>>> " BANNER" BANNER
>>> " PROGRAM" BANNER
>>> " FROM F83X" BANNER ;
>> Replace, e.,g., [ " WELCOME" ] with [ s" WELCOME" ]
>> and then it will compile and run on Gforth 0.7.3
> Oops, sorry - forgot that one!
>
> I ran it on Gforth 0.7.9_20230726. Second conversion - thought I
> caught them all, but forgot that one. Thx, Doug!

Not just pre-ANS forths that present conversion problems. Differences
between "standard systems" has become pathological - and growing.
Forth has what it likes to call 'a minimal standard' - which is akin
to 'having your cake and eating it too'.

On Friday, October 6, 2023 at 3:35:29 AM UTC+2, dxf wrote:
> Not just pre-ANS forths that present conversion problems. Differences
> between "standard systems" has become pathological - and growing.
> Forth has what it likes to call 'a minimal standard' - which is akin
> to 'having your cake and eating it too'.

Guilty as charged! Now this is one I ported WAY back - when 4tH was still
lacking certain features (like C,), so nowadays I'd stay much closer to the
original.

But still - as a library I don't want any ANS Forth concessions - I want it to be
pure 4tH. The user doesn't want or need any conversion layers because of
source purity that will merely cost him speed and bloat.

Sometimes I will add these layers to converted application programs for
either compliance reasons - or because I just want to get the job done as
quickly and securely as possible.

I rarely have these considerations when writing new 4tH application programs.
With libraries - sometimes. I just want a working program, most often because
I need it (e.g. for work). Maintainability is then a much more prevalent issue than
portability.

So, although these choices for non-portable code are conscious and deliberate,
I (and others) are still creating non-portable code.

We also have to be aware that there are areas that lack standardization - and
unjustly so. Take strings (we still can't store or retrieve them in an abstract way)
or command line arguments. Take well-established COMUS words. That certainly
doesn't help. For object orientation it's too late - that train has passed the station
for a long time.

Controversies don't help either. Take DO..LOOP or LOCALs. Personal preferences
don't help either. I still find programs posted on c.l.f with words outside ANS, 20xx
or COMUS - which you only find in one or two Forth compilers.

There are lots of reasons why Forth standards fail. In some sense, it's like the
BASICs in the 1980s. Yes, there was some common ground, but it was near
impossible to make a non-trivial C64 BASIC program run on a ZX Spectrum. Gee,
even porting ZX81 BASIC to ZX Spectrum BASIC required a LOT of expertise (I
did it several times, but sometimes needed some additional assembly).

So it's not new - and not restricted to Forth. It's just annoying at times.

Hans Bezemer

Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> writes:
>On Thursday, October 5, 2023 at 8:47:24=E2=80=AFPM UTC+2, Doug Hoffman wrot=
>e:
>> Replace, e.,g., [ " WELCOME" ] with [ s" WELCOME" ]=20
>> and then it will compile and run on Gforth 0.7.3=20
>Oops, sorry - forgot that one!
>
>I ran it on Gforth 0.7.9_20230726.

Note that in recent Gforth snapshots S" WELCOME" is equivalent to
"WELCOME", not " WELCOME".

- anton
--
M. Anton Ertl http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
New standard: https://forth-standard.org/
EuroForth 2023: https://euro.theforth.net/2023

In article <2023Oct6.132456@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at>,
Anton Ertl <anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> wrote:
>Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> writes:
>>On Thursday, October 5, 2023 at 8:47:24=E2=80=AFPM UTC+2, Doug Hoffman wrot=
>>e:
>>> Replace, e.,g., [ " WELCOME" ] with [ s" WELCOME" ]=20
>>> and then it will compile and run on Gforth 0.7.3=20
>>Oops, sorry - forgot that one!
>>
>>I ran it on Gforth 0.7.9_20230726.
>
>Note that in recent Gforth snapshots S" WELCOME" is equivalent to
>"WELCOME", not " WELCOME".

I urge everybody to add normal-looking strings like "WELCOME" with
unrestricted life span to their Forths. We have a million fold
progress in storage space since Forth began.

>
>- anton

Groetjes Albert
--
Don't praise the day before the evening. One swallow doesn't make spring.
You must not say "hey" before you have crossed the bridge. Don't sell the
hide of the bear until you shot it. Better one bird in the hand than ten in
the air. First gain is a cat spinning. - the Wise from Antrim -

none albert schrieb am Freitag, 6. Oktober 2023 um 13:37:00 UTC+2:
> In article <2023Oct...@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at>,
> Anton Ertl <an...@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> wrote:
> >Hans Bezemer <the.bee...@gmail.com> writes:
> >>On Thursday, October 5, 2023 at 8:47:24=E2=80=AFPM UTC+2, Doug Hoffman wrot=
> >>e:
> >>> Replace, e.,g., [ " WELCOME" ] with [ s" WELCOME" ]=20
> >>> and then it will compile and run on Gforth 0.7.3=20
> >>Oops, sorry - forgot that one!
> >>
> >>I ran it on Gforth 0.7.9_20230726.
> >
> >Note that in recent Gforth snapshots S" WELCOME" is equivalent to
> >"WELCOME", not " WELCOME".
> I urge everybody to add normal-looking strings like "WELCOME" with
> unrestricted life span to their Forths. We have a million fold
> progress in storage space since Forth began.

Using since decades:
"STRING" with embeddable ' apostrophes, or equivalent
'STRING' with embeddable " quotes
(but single 'c' means char c as expected)

On Friday, October 6, 2023 at 1:26:47 PM UTC+2, Anton Ertl wrote:
> Hans Bezemer <the.bee...@gmail.com> writes:
> >On Thursday, October 5, 2023 at 8:47:24=E2=80=AFPM UTC+2, Doug Hoffman wrot=
> >e:
> >> Replace, e.,g., [ " WELCOME" ] with [ s" WELCOME" ]=20
> >> and then it will compile and run on Gforth 0.7.3=20
> >Oops, sorry - forgot that one!
> >
> >I ran it on Gforth 0.7.9_20230726.
> Note that in recent Gforth snapshots S" WELCOME" is equivalent to
> "WELCOME", not " WELCOME".
>
> - anton
> --
> M. Anton Ertl http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
> comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
> New standard: https://forth-standard.org/
> EuroForth 2023: https://euro.theforth.net/2023
I was looking out for errors, not (huge) superfluous spaces - so I missed that one.

Hans Bezemer

On 6/10/2023 9:42 pm, Hans Bezemer wrote:
>
> There are lots of reasons why Forth standards fail. In some sense, it's like the
> BASICs in the 1980s. Yes, there was some common ground, but it was near
> impossible to make a non-trivial C64 BASIC program run on a ZX Spectrum. Gee,
> even porting ZX81 BASIC to ZX Spectrum BASIC required a LOT of expertise (I
> did it several times, but sometimes needed some additional assembly).
>
> So it's not new - and not restricted to Forth. It's just annoying at times.

I don't recall much talk of a 'Standard BASIC'. Back then folks purchased machines
based on features - not portability. As BASIC was built-in there was an expectation
those machine features would be supported. Commodore BASIC 2 provided on the C64
was an enormous disappointment to users who were expecting something more comprehensive.
Similar disappointment has run through the Forth standards. Folks felt they got less
than what they were expecting. To add insult to injury the wording was such that it
allowed for difference - sometimes substantial.

If language standards came with a user-satisfaction rating, I suspect Forth's wouldn't
do so well. In contrast I do sense support for individual forth systems - the 4tH's,
8th's and so on. Moore said he couldn't vote on matters of truth and beauty. If one
is looking for a standard, that's not a bad one!

In article <f3b587e2-982f-4726-8f22-adb22ad12a46n@googlegroups.com>,
minforth <minforth@arcor.de> wrote:
>none albert schrieb am Freitag, 6. Oktober 2023 um 13:37:00 UTC+2:
>> In article <2023Oct...@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at>,
>> Anton Ertl <an...@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> wrote:
>> >Hans Bezemer <the.bee...@gmail.com> writes:
>> >>On Thursday, October 5, 2023 at 8:47:24=E2=80=AFPM UTC+2, Doug Hoffman wrot=
>> >>e:
>> >>> Replace, e.,g., [ " WELCOME" ] with [ s" WELCOME" ]=20
>> >>> and then it will compile and run on Gforth 0.7.3=20
>> >>Oops, sorry - forgot that one!
>> >>
>> >>I ran it on Gforth 0.7.9_20230726.
>> >
>> >Note that in recent Gforth snapshots S" WELCOME" is equivalent to
>> >"WELCOME", not " WELCOME".
>> I urge everybody to add normal-looking strings like "WELCOME" with
>> unrestricted life span to their Forths. We have a million fold
>> progress in storage space since Forth began.
>
>Using since decades:
>"STRING" with embeddable ' apostrophes, or equivalent
>'STRING' with embeddable " quotes
>(but single 'c' means char c as expected)

I adopted the convention of algol 68. The convention with then
single, then double is silly. You still don't be able to have
single and double quotes in the same string.
The Forth 2012 is reasonable, but it goes for escapes.
Almost all languages do that but then the escape conventions
are different.
The best way is to have a single simple string denotation like mine
and then
"ksjdl lk whatever ,. ,. ." $>forth2012
"ksjdl lk whatever ,. ,. ." $>perl
"ksjdl lk whatever ,. ,. ." $>c
"ksjdl lk whatever ,. ,. ." $>clojure
"ksjdl lk whatever ,. ,. ." $>chinese

I like this better, because I can leave out conversions hat
I don't need, probably all of them.

Groetjes Albert
--
Don't praise the day before the evening. One swallow doesn't make spring.
You must not say "hey" before you have crossed the bridge. Don't sell the
hide of the bear until you shot it. Better one bird in the hand than ten in
the air. First gain is a cat spinning. - the Wise from Antrim -

none albert schrieb am Samstag, 7. Oktober 2023 um 12:36:51 UTC+2:
> In article <f3b587e2-982f-4726...@googlegroups.com>,
> minforth <minf...@arcor.de> wrote:
> >Using since decades:
> >"STRING" with embeddable ' apostrophes, or equivalent
> >'STRING' with embeddable " quotes
> >(but single 'c' means char c as expected)
>
> I adopted the convention of algol 68. The convention with then
> single, then double is silly. You still don't be able to have
> single and double quotes in the same string.

Call it silly, but it is as simple as can be, without parsing for escape characters
and string conversion while eliminating the escape backslash.

But then I never had to work with strings that contained both ' and ".
Lucky me. ;-)

In article <2f9687ed-7cf8-4057-9922-9bd613e58062n@googlegroups.com>,
minforth <minforth@arcor.de> wrote:
>none albert schrieb am Samstag, 7. Oktober 2023 um 12:36:51 UTC+2:
>> In article <f3b587e2-982f-4726...@googlegroups.com>,
>> minforth <minf...@arcor.de> wrote:
>> >Using since decades:
>> >"STRING" with embeddable ' apostrophes, or equivalent
>> >'STRING' with embeddable " quotes
>> >(but single 'c' means char c as expected)
>>
>> I adopted the convention of algol 68. The convention with then
>> single, then double is silly. You still don't be able to have
>> single and double quotes in the same string.
>
>Call it silly, but it is as simple as can be, without parsing for escape characters
>and string conversion while eliminating the escape backslash.

Doubling convention is likewise simple. Parse until ". The following char
should be a blank, give an error message. In the case it is a " ,
parse until " and append.

I don't like the triple function of ' (xt , char denotation, string
denotation).
In my own programs I use &A instead of 'A' .

>
>But then I never had to work with strings that contained both ' and ".
>Lucky me. ;-)

You must admit, that you have never thought of it. That is the situation
that makes debugging hard.

Groetjes Albert
--
Don't praise the day before the evening. One swallow doesn't make spring.
You must not say "hey" before you have crossed the bridge. Don't sell the
hide of the bear until you shot it. Better one bird in the hand than ten in
the air. First gain is a cat spinning. - the Wise from Antrim -

On Saturday, October 7, 2023 at 3:07:30 PM UTC+2, none albert wrote:
> >Call it silly, but it is as simple as can be, without parsing for escape characters
> >and string conversion while eliminating the escape backslash.
> Doubling convention is likewise simple. Parse until ". The following char
> should be a blank, give an error message. In the case it is a " ,
> parse until " and append.
I used that trick in my parsing library: https://sourceforge.net/p/forth-4th/code/HEAD/tree/trunk/4th.src/lib/parsing.4th
If it's not followed by a blank, parse again. I use this lib quite extensively for work.
It has served me well for many years.

I cannot do this trick within 4tH, since the tokenizer is (in that regard)
very simple. It can parse for a given delimiter, but that's it.

Hans Bezemer

On Thursday, October 5, 2023 at 6:19:56 PM UTC+2, Hans Bezemer wrote:
> On Thursday, October 5, 2023 at 8:47:37 AM UTC+2, Antoni Gual Via wrote:
> > Hello Hans
> > I tried to run the banner library but it had some words specific to 4th, I will have to install it.
> No, you don't. I nicked the original from F-PC (much easier to adapt). So here it is. It does the same.
> It's tested on Gforth and runs just fine.

I just reported the original Tom Zimmer source and this time it was much easier. I just had to cater
for BIT (a well formed flag in 4tH is 1, not -1, but why Tom Zimmer chose that construct, I dunno.
The routine doesn't need a 1 or 0, any set of bits will do) and convert the CREATE to OFFSET. A
defined OFFSET does its own indexing, so adding it to the address is not required:

: OFFSET CREATE DOES> SWAP CHARS + C@ ;

And after that, it ran flawlessly. Since I converted this lib (must have been in the early noughties) a
lot of features have been added to 4tH, so now conversion was much, much easier.

Hans Bezemer