On 12/10/2023 1:51 am, Zbig wrote:
>>> Hmm... so maybe I shouldn't bother Mr. Duncan after all.
>> I'm unpleasantly surprised that people here rather draw
>> conclusions based on a posting than check for themselves.
>
> You know: my interest in UR/Forth is purely histori/techni/cal,
> so I'm not going to pay for it 400 USD.
> OTOH I wouldn't to make impression on Mr. Duncan that I'm going
> to rob him or something; that I wanted to extort anything from him.
> Just was curious if he meanwhile (maybe) released (or would be
> keen to) his Forth to the public, like to known place forth.org — even
> without the sources.

The following suggests Ray has long ago put Forth behind him.
According to SVFIG they received a box of stuff from Ray - mostly
printed material according to the inventory list. My impression
is he was clearing out the attic.

https://www.greenarraychips.com/home/documents/forth-archive.php

http://www.forth.org/svfig/kk/07-2019.html

In article <b0c80fb0-0057-49ac-bfef-1e0b5bc48103n@googlegroups.com>,
Marcel Hendrix <mhx@iae.nl> wrote:
>On Wednesday, October 11, 2023 at 8:32:00 AM UTC+2, Zbig wrote:
>[..]
>> Hmm... so maybe I shouldn't bother Mr. Duncan after all.
>
>I'm unpleasantly surprised that people here rather draw
>conclusions based on a posting than check for themselves.
In particular
http://www.forth.org/svfig/kk/07-2019.html
shows that
1. Ray Duncan is a responsable person who doesn't throw away
stuff willy nilly.

"
I may uncover more
later as I work my way through boxes that have been moved from one
storage unit to another over the years and finally to my garage,
there's a lot of stuff in there that I don't want to throw away but
don't know what to do with, but so much more that I remember throwing
away or giving away and wish I still had.
"
(This remembers me of Trump's bathroom at Maro Lago.)

Apparently he is willing to scan any material that appears
interesting.

"
Well, don't worry, scanning is not really a problem for me. I have
access to a high speed scanner at work that will blow through large
documents and generate PDFs in no time at all. It takes more time to
pry out the staples than to scan sometimes.
"

The Dutch chapter is in a similar situation, since the demise
of Hans Nieuwenhuyzen.
We are in the process of scanning and archiving stuff.

>
>-marcel

P.S.
Worrysome is the proprietary pdf format that may not be readable in a
matter of years.

Groetjes Albert
--
Don't praise the day before the evening. One swallow doesn't make spring.
You must not say "hey" before you have crossed the bridge. Don't sell the
hide of the bear until you shot it. Better one bird in the hand than ten in
the air. First gain is a cat spinning. - the Wise from Antrim -

On 12/10/2023 8:40 pm, albert wrote:
> In article <b0c80fb0-0057-49ac-bfef-1e0b5bc48103n@googlegroups.com>,
> Marcel Hendrix <mhx@iae.nl> wrote:
>> On Wednesday, October 11, 2023 at 8:32:00 AM UTC+2, Zbig wrote:
>> [..]
>>> Hmm... so maybe I shouldn't bother Mr. Duncan after all.
>>
>> I'm unpleasantly surprised that people here rather draw
>> conclusions based on a posting than check for themselves.
> In particular
> http://www.forth.org/svfig/kk/07-2019.html
> shows that
> 1. Ray Duncan is a responsable person who doesn't throw away
> stuff willy nilly.

As I read it, it appears he did give it away:

"We'll unbox packages of Forth material sent to the SVFIG archives by Ray
Duncan, a giant from the history of Forth."

In article <6527cd22$1@news.ausics.net>, dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> wrote:
>On 12/10/2023 8:40 pm, albert wrote:
>> In article <b0c80fb0-0057-49ac-bfef-1e0b5bc48103n@googlegroups.com>,
>> Marcel Hendrix <mhx@iae.nl> wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, October 11, 2023 at 8:32:00 AM UTC+2, Zbig wrote:
>>> [..]
>>>> Hmm... so maybe I shouldn't bother Mr. Duncan after all.
>>>
>>> I'm unpleasantly surprised that people here rather draw
>>> conclusions based on a posting than check for themselves.
>> In particular
>> http://www.forth.org/svfig/kk/07-2019.html
>> shows that
>> 1. Ray Duncan is a responsable person who doesn't throw away
>> stuff willy nilly.
>
>As I read it, it appears he did give it away:
>
>"We'll unbox packages of Forth material sent to the SVFIG archives by Ray
> Duncan, a giant from the history of Forth."

My interpretation is that if you send Forth material to archives,
that is a responable behaviour?

Groetjes Albert
>
>
--
Don't praise the day before the evening. One swallow doesn't make spring.
You must not say "hey" before you have crossed the bridge. Don't sell the
hide of the bear until you shot it. Better one bird in the hand than ten in
the air. First gain is a cat spinning. - the Wise from Antrim -

On 13/10/2023 12:48 am, albert wrote:
> In article <6527cd22$1@news.ausics.net>, dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 12/10/2023 8:40 pm, albert wrote:
>>> In article <b0c80fb0-0057-49ac-bfef-1e0b5bc48103n@googlegroups.com>,
>>> Marcel Hendrix <mhx@iae.nl> wrote:
>>>> On Wednesday, October 11, 2023 at 8:32:00 AM UTC+2, Zbig wrote:
>>>> [..]
>>>>> Hmm... so maybe I shouldn't bother Mr. Duncan after all.
>>>>
>>>> I'm unpleasantly surprised that people here rather draw
>>>> conclusions based on a posting than check for themselves.
>>> In particular
>>> http://www.forth.org/svfig/kk/07-2019.html
>>> shows that
>>> 1. Ray Duncan is a responsable person who doesn't throw away
>>> stuff willy nilly.
>>
>> As I read it, it appears he did give it away:
>>
>> "We'll unbox packages of Forth material sent to the SVFIG archives by Ray
>> Duncan, a giant from the history of Forth."
>
> My interpretation is that if you send Forth material to archives,
> that is a responable behaviour?

Responsible aside, stuff donated is just boxes moved around.
From what you say HCC Forth is sitting on a ton of material.
Is there any doubt it will eventually be thrown out?

On Wednesday, October 11, 2023 at 7:52:02 AM UTC-7, Zbig wrote:
> You know: my interest in UR/Forth is purely histori/techni/cal,
> so I'm not going to pay for it 400 USD.

In 1994 UR/Forth was worth $400 because it was the only Forth
capable of supporting MFX, and Testra needed MFX to make their
MiniForth processor usable, and they needed the MiniForth
to stay in business (their 80c320 motion-control board was not
competitive with the competitor's MC68000 board in speed, but the
MiniForth board was both less expensive and higher performing
than the MC68000 board). At that time the RTX-2000 was the
premier Forth chip, but it would not have been competitive with
the MC68000 in price (maybe not in speed either).
UR/Forth continues to be worthwhile for Testra (they presumably
spent a lot of money on getting it upgraded to run under 32-bit
Windows) because they still rely on MFX and other legacy
UR/Forth programs. If you don't have any legacy UR/Forth
code though, UR/Forth would not be worth any money to you.

> OTOH I wouldn't to make impression on Mr. Duncan that I'm going
> to rob him or something; that I wanted to extort anything from him.
> Just was curious if he meanwhile (maybe) released (or would be
> keen to) his Forth to the public, like to known place forth.org — even
> without the sources.

I doubt that SVFIG (www.forth.org) would accept a Windows version
of UR/Forth --- SVFIG just supports ANS-Forth and Forth-200x --- they
aren't going to support any non-standard Forth that is useful. They support
non-standard Forths that are not useful because this helps to bolster
the idea that Forth-200x has technical value (Forth-200x doesn't though).
A better bet would be Peter Forth's website.

On 12/10/2023 1:51 am, Zbig wrote:
>>> Hmm... so maybe I shouldn't bother Mr. Duncan after all.
>> I'm unpleasantly surprised that people here rather draw
>> conclusions based on a posting than check for themselves.
>
> You know: my interest in UR/Forth is purely histori/techni/cal,
> so I'm not going to pay for it 400 USD.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/155817878968

"If you are a collector you will want to have this rare piece of
history for your vintage collection."

> https://www.ebay.com/itm/155817878968
>
> "If you are a collector you will want to have this rare piece of
> history for your vintage collection."

Maybe, but not at the listed price.
I bought four years ago original Super-Forth for C-64,
I gave IIRC about 70 USD — for complete package,
software and manual (and including porto, if I'm correct).
But 100 USD for a manual alone… only in case when
I „really really” need it; not as a „collectible”.

On 13/10/2023 6:14 pm, Zbig wrote:
>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/155817878968
>>
>> "If you are a collector you will want to have this rare piece of
>> history for your vintage collection."
>
> Maybe, but not at the listed price.
> I bought four years ago original Super-Forth for C-64,
> I gave IIRC about 70 USD — for complete package,
> software and manual (and including porto, if I'm correct).
> But 100 USD for a manual alone… only in case when
> I „really really” need it; not as a „collectible”.

You must have more space for boxes than I :) I had the impression
SuperForth 64 s/w and docs were already available online.

> You must have more space for boxes than I :) I had the impression
> SuperForth 64 s/w and docs were already available online.

Indeed — but that price was what I was eager to pay for a „collectible”. :D
Yes, Super Forth — and its manual — can be downloaded. Still I have
an original now. :)

In article <65289611$1@news.ausics.net>, dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> wrote:
>On 13/10/2023 12:48 am, albert wrote:
>> In article <6527cd22$1@news.ausics.net>, dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 12/10/2023 8:40 pm, albert wrote:
>>>> In article <b0c80fb0-0057-49ac-bfef-1e0b5bc48103n@googlegroups.com>,
>>>> Marcel Hendrix <mhx@iae.nl> wrote:
>>>>> On Wednesday, October 11, 2023 at 8:32:00 AM UTC+2, Zbig wrote:
>>>>> [..]
>>>>>> Hmm... so maybe I shouldn't bother Mr. Duncan after all.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm unpleasantly surprised that people here rather draw
>>>>> conclusions based on a posting than check for themselves.
>>>> In particular
>>>> http://www.forth.org/svfig/kk/07-2019.html
>>>> shows that
>>>> 1. Ray Duncan is a responsable person who doesn't throw away
>>>> stuff willy nilly.
>>>
>>> As I read it, it appears he did give it away:
>>>
>>> "We'll unbox packages of Forth material sent to the SVFIG archives by Ray
>>> Duncan, a giant from the history of Forth."
>>
>> My interpretation is that if you send Forth material to archives,
>> that is a responable behaviour?
>
>Responsible aside, stuff donated is just boxes moved around.
>From what you say HCC Forth is sitting on a ton of material.
>Is there any doubt it will eventually be thrown out?

Define "thrown out". Define "eventually".

Groetjes Albert
>
>
--
Don't praise the day before the evening. One swallow doesn't make spring.
You must not say "hey" before you have crossed the bridge. Don't sell the
hide of the bear until you shot it. Better one bird in the hand than ten in
the air. First gain is a cat spinning. - the Wise from Antrim -

On Friday, October 13, 2023 at 10:46:56 AM UTC+2, none albert wrote:
> Define "thrown out". Define "eventually".
"Thrown out"
(1) removed from someones immediate vicinity;
(2) destroyed or submitted for destruction.

"Eventually"
An action or event that will take place at an indeterminate moment in the future.

Hans Bezemer

> "Eventually"
> An action or event that will take place at an indeterminate moment in the future.

…or simply: „in the end”.

On Friday, October 13, 2023 at 5:19:12 PM UTC+2, Zbig wrote:
> > "Eventually"
> > An action or event that will take place at an indeterminate moment in the future.
> …or simply: „in the end”.
synonym define synonym ok

define thrown out ok
define eventually . ok

Hans Bezemer

On 10/10/2023 2:31 am, Zbig wrote:
>
> No trace of UR/Forth anywhere in the Internet (I once was
> seaching for maybe some "shareware" version for download).

Googling brought up LMI PC/FORTH+ 2.00 1984

https://forum.winworldpc.com/discussion/11778/offer-lmi-pc-forth-2-0

Boots up with 593890 bytes free! Can't recall the differences from the
regular (64K) PC/FORTH other than it ran slower.

NG data files LMI released for PC/FORTH+ 3.2 and UR/FORTH386 are here:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1kh2WcPUc3hQpLcz7TQ-YQiowrozvxfGw

A reader for NG files can be found here:
https://www.davep.org/norton-guides/

On 14/10/2023 9:47 pm, dxf wrote:
> On 10/10/2023 2:31 am, Zbig wrote:
>>
>> No trace of UR/Forth anywhere in the Internet (I once was
>> seaching for maybe some "shareware" version for download).
>
> Googling brought up LMI PC/FORTH+ 2.00 1984
>
> https://forum.winworldpc.com/discussion/11778/offer-lmi-pc-forth-2-0
>
> Boots up with 593890 bytes free! Can't recall the differences from the
> regular (64K) PC/FORTH other than it ran slower.
>
> NG data files LMI released for PC/FORTH+ 3.2 and UR/FORTH386 are here:
> https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1kh2WcPUc3hQpLcz7TQ-YQiowrozvxfGw
>
> A reader for NG files can be found here:
> https://www.davep.org/norton-guides/

Rick (SwiftForth) VanNorman put out several pd forths. One was along the
lines of LMI PC/FORTH+ (pseudo 32bit) and a DPMI-based forth. The latter
is packaged as S4.ZIP and is in the Taygeta forth archives. Can't seem to
find a link for it but have a copy somewhere.

> Rick (SwiftForth) VanNorman put out several pd forths. One was along the
> lines of LMI PC/FORTH+ (pseudo 32bit) and a DPMI-based forth. The latter
> is packaged as S4.ZIP and is in the Taygeta forth archives. Can't seem to
> find a link for it but have a copy somewhere.

Sure it would be an interesting example; tried to google for that,
but indeed it cannot be found.
But I have found something like FORTH32, and there's a remark
„Author: Rick VanNorman”:
https://github.com/OS2World/DEV-FORTH-FORTH32

In article <c6958e4f-5f7f-4735-8b2c-96d0db6de96fn@googlegroups.com>,
Zbig <zbigniew2011@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Rick (SwiftForth) VanNorman put out several pd forths. One was along the
>> lines of LMI PC/FORTH+ (pseudo 32bit) and a DPMI-based forth. The latter
>> is packaged as S4.ZIP and is in the Taygeta forth archives. Can't seem to
>> find a link for it but have a copy somewhere.
>
>Sure it would be an interesting example; tried to google for that,
>but indeed it cannot be found.
>But I have found something like FORTH32, and there's a remark
>„Author: Rick VanNorman”:
>https://github.com/OS2World/DEV-FORTH-FORTH32

Who wants a DPMI Forth? Anyhow.
https://forth.hcc.nl/producten/ciforth.html
Go to the obsolete section.
Download "wina versie 4"

At least this is documented and the source comes with it.

Groetjes Albert
--
Don't praise the day before the evening. One swallow doesn't make spring.
You must not say "hey" before you have crossed the bridge. Don't sell the
hide of the bear until you shot it. Better one bird in the hand than ten in
the air. First gain is a cat spinning. - the Wise from Antrim -

> Who wants a DPMI Forth? Anyhow.
> https://forth.hcc.nl/producten/ciforth.html
> Go to the obsolete section.
> Download "wina versie 4"
>
> At least this is documented and the source comes with it.

Thanks!
But all I've downloaded was a short note:
„This archive is obsolete and a better version is available.
This archive may still be available upon request:
mailto (your_address)”

> Go to the obsolete section.
> Download "wina versie 4"

No, sorry — it was „version 5” replaced by that note.
Got the version 4 — thanks again!

On 15/10/2023 10:37 pm, albert wrote:
> In article <c6958e4f-5f7f-4735-8b2c-96d0db6de96fn@googlegroups.com>,
> Zbig <zbigniew2011@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Rick (SwiftForth) VanNorman put out several pd forths. One was along the
>>> lines of LMI PC/FORTH+ (pseudo 32bit) and a DPMI-based forth. The latter
>>> is packaged as S4.ZIP and is in the Taygeta forth archives. Can't seem to
>>> find a link for it but have a copy somewhere.
>>
>> Sure it would be an interesting example; tried to google for that,
>> but indeed it cannot be found.
>> But I have found something like FORTH32, and there's a remark
>> „Author: Rick VanNorman”:
>> https://github.com/OS2World/DEV-FORTH-FORTH32
>
> Who wants a DPMI Forth? Anyhow.
> https://forth.hcc.nl/producten/ciforth.html
> Go to the obsolete section.
> Download "wina versie 4"
>
> At least this is documented and the source comes with it.

Yes but treasures within easy reach are not so alluring :)