Hello
I have found some code in the Net that claim to be ANS Forth, but require miscutils.frt. I'm unabel to Google it.
Where can I get that file?

Antonio

In article <97ead41d-e2ee-45dc-933c-7b7aa6cc83efn@googlegroups.com>,
Antoni Gual Via <antonigualvia@gmail.com> wrote:
>Hello
>I have found some code in the Net that claim to be ANS Forth, but
>require miscutils.frt. I'm unabel to Google it.
>Where can I get that file?

In 1993 I worked with Marcel Hendrix on the transputer Forth and
he had the habit to include "goodies.frt". I convinced him
that that was a ridiculous name, and took my proposal to renamed
it in "miscutil.frt".
If you can find a tforth or an iforth it probably contains
a file named such.
As the name implies it is not meant to be portable and actually
more of a haphazard heap of words that fit nowhere.
(Except in a fine grained library that I promote in ciforth)

You can find tforth here
https://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst/tforth.html
You need an MS-DOS system or DOSBOX to extract the doubly compressed
files. (It had to fit on a floppy)/

I tried it in DOSBOX and I had good luck with running install.bat ,
finding miscutil.frt in the INCLUDE directory.

I don't guarantee that mhx hasn't update the file in 25+ years.
The words present are well explained at the end of the file.
iforth is gone commercial and I don't have a copy.

>
>Antonio

Groetjes Albert
--
Don't praise the day before the evening. One swallow doesn't make spring.
You must not say "hey" before you have crossed the bridge. Don't sell the
hide of the bear until you shot it. Better one bird in the hand than ten in
the air. First gain is a cat spinning. - the Wise from Antrim -

Hello Albert
I got tforth and i was lucky WinRar could understand the lzh compression used. I have my miscutils.frth
What surprises me it's dated pre ANS94 and programs claiming to be complying with ANS94 use it.
Thanks for your help!
I will have a look at wina, it looks interesting.

Kind regards
Antonio
PS: Its the third time i write this messsage, as Google freezes after i fill the Captcha and the message does'n get published...

In article <e8be69b6-b55f-4548-8a00-e5be18184f2dn@googlegroups.com>,
Antoni Gual Via <antonigualvia@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>Hello Albert
>I got tforth and i was lucky WinRar could understand the lzh compression
>used. I have my miscutils.frth
>What surprises me it's dated pre ANS94 and programs claiming to be
>complying with ANS94 use it.

First version was undated pre-91. Header is boilerplate.
If Marcel Hendrix claims ANSI compliance, take it with a grain of
salt. For example in miscutil.frt hex prefix '$' is used with impunity.

>Thanks for your help!
>I will have a look at wina, it looks interesting.

>
>Kind regards
>Antonio
>PS: Its the third time i write this messsage, as Google freezes after i
>fill the Captcha and the message does'n get published...
>
--
Don't praise the day before the evening. One swallow doesn't make spring.
You must not say "hey" before you have crossed the bridge. Don't sell the
hide of the bear until you shot it. Better one bird in the hand than ten in
the air. First gain is a cat spinning. - the Wise from Antrim -

albert@cherry.(none) (albert) writes:
>If Marcel Hendrix claims ANSI compliance, take it with a grain of
>salt. For example in miscutil.frt hex prefix '$' is used with impunity.

Given that number prefixes (including '$') have been standardized in
Forth-2012 and that ANSI considers ANS Forth (aka Forth-94) to be
retired, does it really matter? Of course it would be more precise if
he claimed Forth-2012 conformance rather than "ANS Forth".

- anton
--
M. Anton Ertl http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
New standard: https://forth-standard.org/
EuroForth 2023: https://euro.theforth.net/2023

On 4/12/2023 12:48 am, Anton Ertl wrote:
> albert@cherry.(none) (albert) writes:
>> If Marcel Hendrix claims ANSI compliance, take it with a grain of
>> salt. For example in miscutil.frt hex prefix '$' is used with impunity.
>
> Given that number prefixes (including '$') have been standardized in
> Forth-2012 and that ANSI considers ANS Forth (aka Forth-94) to be
> retired, does it really matter? Of course it would be more precise if
> he claimed Forth-2012 conformance rather than "ANS Forth".

Not with all the iForthisms present. Had 200x distinguished itself from
Forth-94, asserting conformance to the former might actually mean something.
But sadly it never did, too afraid to step outside ANS' considerable shadow.
20 years of tinkering at the edges was about it.

In article <2023Dec3.144835@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at>,
Anton Ertl <anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> wrote:
>albert@cherry.(none) (albert) writes:
>>If Marcel Hendrix claims ANSI compliance, take it with a grain of
>>salt. For example in miscutil.frt hex prefix '$' is used with impunity.
>
>Given that number prefixes (including '$') have been standardized in
>Forth-2012 and that ANSI considers ANS Forth (aka Forth-94) to be
>retired, does it really matter? Of course it would be more precise if
>he claimed Forth-2012 conformance rather than "ANS Forth".

According to the header:
AH has made the last update in 1997. AH would not be prescient
enough to claim conformity to ANSI-2012.

Good to know that the claim "conforms to ANSI FORTH" means
nowadays FORTH-2012. I wasn't aware of that.

>
>- anton

Groetjes Albert
--
Don't praise the day before the evening. One swallow doesn't make spring.
You must not say "hey" before you have crossed the bridge. Don't sell the
hide of the bear until you shot it. Better one bird in the hand than ten in
the air. First gain is a cat spinning. - the Wise from Antrim -

albert@cherry.(none) (albert) writes:
>In article <2023Dec3.144835@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at>,
>Anton Ertl <anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> wrote:
>>albert@cherry.(none) (albert) writes:
>>>If Marcel Hendrix claims ANSI compliance, take it with a grain of
>>>salt. For example in miscutil.frt hex prefix '$' is used with impunity.
>>
>>Given that number prefixes (including '$') have been standardized in
>>Forth-2012 and that ANSI considers ANS Forth (aka Forth-94) to be
>>retired, does it really matter? Of course it would be more precise if
>>he claimed Forth-2012 conformance rather than "ANS Forth".
>
>According to the header:
>AH has made the last update in 1997. AH would not be prescient
>enough to claim conformity to ANSI-2012.

I don't know who this AH is, and why the last update by AH would be
relevant. I looked at the miscutil.frt that came with
iforth-5.1-mini. That file had its last change in 2017. No
prescience necessary.

- anton
--
M. Anton Ertl http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
New standard: https://forth-standard.org/
EuroForth 2023: https://euro.theforth.net/2023

none wrote:

> In article <2023Dec3.144835@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at>,
> Anton Ertl <anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> wrote:
>>albert@cherry.(none) (albert) writes:
>>>If Marcel Hendrix claims ANSI compliance, take it with a grain of
>>>salt. For example in miscutil.frt hex prefix '$' is used with impunity.

Marcel Hendrix can't have claimed ANS compliance for miscutil.frt because
that file is not in the latest tForth source distribution (~1995).

The file is present in almost all releases of iForth, and Albert
van der Horst has the first LAST CHANGE entry:
---
* LAST CHANGE : 911002 AH Split into source and configuration parts
---

I vaguely recall that somebody took offense with an ANS Forth
compatibility phrase (before 2005, the oldest backup I can find).
Currently, the header reads
---
(*
* LANGUAGE : ANS Forth
* PROJECT : Forth Environments
* DESCRIPTION : Useful words
* CATEGORY : Configuration
* AUTHOR : Marcel Hendrix
* LAST CHANGE : 2020-09-06 15:35:06 hs; CIRCBUFFER sets first cell to 0 at runtime
* LAST CHANGE : 2019-02-08 07:17:21 hs; @CPUTICKS uses @cpuid as a serializing instruction ...
---

iForth can (still) be made to warn for non ANS-2012 words.

-marcel

In article <f09cedd6937a47ef584fe642e15b5a8e@news.novabbs.com>,
mhx <mhx@iae.nl> wrote:
>none wrote:
>
>> In article <2023Dec3.144835@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at>,
>> Anton Ertl <anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> wrote:
>>>albert@cherry.(none) (albert) writes:
>>>>If Marcel Hendrix claims ANSI compliance, take it with a grain of
>>>>salt. For example in miscutil.frt hex prefix '$' is used with impunity.
>
>Marcel Hendrix can't have claimed ANS compliance for miscutil.frt because
>that file is not in the latest tForth source distribution (~1995).

So I presume this comment applies to the version you have on
your website.

You conveniently forget the conflict that arose in the 90's.
I was the librarian and I rejected your whole sale replacement
of the source. I continued with documenting each defect and
solving it, possibly analysing your source whether it was a solution
of the problem.
From that time one each change was documented with the
defect or wish list item it solved.

So I'm sorry but the latest source distribution is on my site and
it is much more recent. That was the version we supplied to
the one paying customer we had. I have been never relieved from
the librarian function.

It is GPL after all. You are perfectly legit to keep a fork
on your website.

>The file is present in almost all releases of iForth, and Albert
>van der Horst has the first LAST CHANGE entry:
>---
> * LAST CHANGE : 911002 AH Split into source and configuration parts
>---
The change was done before the file was renamed miscutil.frt.
I was merely the first to record changes in the file header.

>
>I vaguely recall that somebody took offense with an ANS Forth
>compatibility phrase (before 2005, the oldest backup I can find).
>Currently, the header reads
>---
>(*
> * LANGUAGE : ANS Forth
> * PROJECT : Forth Environments
> * DESCRIPTION : Useful words
> * CATEGORY : Configuration
> * AUTHOR : Marcel Hendrix
> * LAST CHANGE : 2020-09-06 15:35:06 hs; CIRCBUFFER sets first cell to 0
>at runtime
> * LAST CHANGE : 2019-02-08 07:17:21 hs; @CPUTICKS uses @cpuid as a
>serializing instruction ...
>---
>
>iForth can (still) be made to warn for non ANS-2012 words.

You could add a caption in your documentation, to run this facility
for people who publish a program developed using iforth and
add it to the header of the file, assuming all other words are
ANSI.

>
>-marcel

Groetjes Albert
--
Don't praise the day before the evening. One swallow doesn't make spring.
You must not say "hey" before you have crossed the bridge. Don't sell the
hide of the bear until you shot it. Better one bird in the hand than ten in
the air. First gain is a cat spinning. - the Wise from Antrim -

On Sunday, December 3, 2023 at 10:22:27 AM UTC+1, Antoni Gual Via wrote:
> (..) I was lucky WinRar could understand the lzh compression used. I have my miscutils.frth

For those using a real operating system: sudo apt install lhasa

HB

On 27/01/2024 12:21 am, Hans Bezemer wrote:
> On Sunday, December 3, 2023 at 10:22:27 AM UTC+1, Antoni Gual Via wrote:
>> (..) I was lucky WinRar could understand the lzh compression used. I have my miscutils.frth
>
> For those using a real operating system: sudo apt install lhasa

While hell has many doors, computing only offers three :)