https://youtu.be/LKiBlGDfRU8

On a brighter note ... or not

https://youtu.be/zpU_e3jh_FY

dxf wrote:

> https://youtu.be/LKiBlGDfRU8

> On a brighter note ... or not

> https://youtu.be/zpU_e3jh_FY

Ouite a bit brighter than most (videos). And interesting to
see that there are still quite a few people that think so, too.

-marcel

On 4/20/24 08:32, dxf wrote:
> https://youtu.be/LKiBlGDfRU8
>
> On a brighter note ... or not
>
> https://youtu.be/zpU_e3jh_FY
>

Sabine Hossenfelder is not a big fan of academia, having spent a good
deal of her career in it. In fact, she made a video entitled, "why
academia sucks." I can empathize with much of what she says, although I
don't agree with everything she says.

Regarding free will and the theoretically deterministic nature of future
possibilities, ... I've never lost any sleep over it.

--
Krishna

On 4/20/24 22:37, Krishna Myneni wrote:
> On 4/20/24 08:32, dxf wrote:
>> https://youtu.be/LKiBlGDfRU8
>>
>> On a brighter note ... or not
>>
>> https://youtu.be/zpU_e3jh_FY
>>
>
> Sabine Hossenfelder is not a big fan of academia, having spent a good
> deal of her career in it. In fact, she made a video entitled, "why
> academia sucks." I can empathize with much of what she says, although I
> don't agree with everything she says.
>
> Regarding free will and the theoretically deterministic nature of future
> possibilities, ... I've never lost any sleep over it.
>

Oh, I just now noticed that your first link was to the "why academia
sucks" video.

--
KM

Krishna Myneni wrote:

> Regarding free will and the theoretically deterministic nature of future
> possibilities, ... I've never lost any sleep over it.

I remember having sleepness mornings over the issue when I was 10 years
old or so. This was caused by my parents urging me to go to church
(I don't think they expected me to really listen what was being said).

I succeeded to work out both problems and have been extremely well-rested
on every Sunday since.

-marcel

On 4/21/24 04:11, mhx wrote:
> Krishna Myneni wrote:
>
>> Regarding free will and the theoretically deterministic nature of
>> future possibilities, ... I've never lost any sleep over it.
>
> I remember having sleepness mornings over the issue when I was 10 years
> old or so. This was caused by my parents urging me to go to church (I
> don't think they expected me to really listen what was being said).
> I succeeded to work out both problems and have been extremely well-rested
> on every Sunday since.

It's hard enough predicting simple physics of a few particles
interacting with each other. Forget about predicting a large scale
system like the human brain. Under special situations like coherent
quantum matter (Bose-Einstein condensates), the behavior of macroscopic
collection of particles can be described using "mean-field" theories;
otherwise, gross approximations are needed.

I tend to dismiss statements like "in principle it is possible to
determine the behavior of the brain" because it is neither a practical
possibility, nor can we see any way of applying fundamental rules of
quantum mechanics to such a complex, macroscopic object other than
simulation by a similarly complex quantum system which can be initialized.

--
Krishna

>
> I succeeded to work out both problems and have been extremely well-rested
> on every Sunday since.

Man hears train coming; sees he can beat it and gets killed by the
train on the second track coming from the other direction.

Many a successful man will happily boast of not being held back by
lack of education.

Neighbor kid started young mowing lawns. In a few months saw him
riding down the street on a small mower. Now he's full grown; has
many trucks, trailers, boat, mountain bike, rv, more than three
homes, land with cattle, all from mowing. His two x-wives liked his
toys but not his independence.

When I was young, deacon lectured me on the wisdom of standing on
the solid rock of Peter and not sinking in the shifting sands of
philosophy. I didn't know what philosophy was. Unintentionally
I spent most of my life traversing shifting sands of one sort
or another. Bruised and beaten but I can still smile thinking
back to that time.

Leaned a new word last week (already forgot it but will know it
if I see it again.) That very same day as I revisited some documents
I found that word in several of them. Until aware much of
one's surrounding is oblivious at the conscious level. Perhaps
that gives rise to the abundance of zombie movies.

Higher education is good but doesn't translate into street smarts on
its own. Many things have to be learned the hard way. One can read
all the advice on marriage but until the plunge is taken, for better
or worse, KNOW wont be really known (some people think they know 'KNOW
in the biblical sense', but that just may be the first train.)

--
me

sjack wrote:

[..]
> Higher education is good but doesn't translate into street smarts on
> its own.

It depends on what one calls 'higher education' and what one considers
to be street smart. At least in the technical professions it doesn't
(well, shouldn't) work to just read books and papers or listen to
people reciting them.

I know mathematicians that are proud of not being able to program
a single line, that can tell you exactly why you should use the
symmetric successive over-relaxation method with Chebyshev
semi-iterative acceleration, without ever having used it themselves
(why, they can derive the proof that it works). On the other hand,
there are lots of people that solve their electrostatic field
problems with Excel, or are able to squeeze a floppydisk-based
telephone answering program in a 3 Kbyte RAM micro.

And then, there is Knuth.

-marcel

You old fogies are so retro! Just CO2-emitting f..ts!
Study Post-Capitalist Queer Astrology for the progress of humanity!

On 4/21/24 13:32, mhx wrote:
> sjack wrote:
>
> [..]
>> Higher education is good but doesn't translate into street smarts on
>> its own.
>
....
> On the other hand, there
> are lots of people that solve their electrostatic field problems with
> Excel, ...

Using Excel for electrostatic field problems! They're in for a nasty
surprise if they code the Coulomb force as -A1^2.

--
Krishna

OT: is novabbs compromised ?????????????????
(see the last lunatic message using my account)

On 4/21/24 17:47, minforth wrote:
> OT: is novabbs compromised ?????????????????
> (see the last lunatic message using my account)

I thought it was snark. :-)

-- KM

minforth@gmx.net (minforth) writes:
>OT: is novabbs compromised ?????????????????
>(see the last lunatic message using my account)

Usenet in general and NNTP in particular does not authenticate. I
could change the name and email address in the From: line to be
"minforth@gmx.net (minforth)"; I might get problems with my NNTP
provider, but I expect that there are providers who don't care (Google
groups used to be one who was used for injecting huge amounts of
illegitimate messages).

One can inspect the headers of the message to discover traces of the
spoofing, but 1) you don't provide a Message-Id for the supposedly
spoofed message and 2) if the spoofed message was really from your
account (i.e., your account is compromised rather than somebody
exploiting the lack of authentication in Usenet), one will not see a
difference in the headers.

- anton
--
M. Anton Ertl http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
New standard: https://forth-standard.org/
EuroForth 2023: https://euro.theforth.net/2023

On Mon, 22 Apr 2024 07:41:46 GMT
anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) wrote:

> minforth@gmx.net (minforth) writes:
> >OT: is novabbs compromised ?????????????????
> >(see the last lunatic message using my account)
>
> Usenet in general and NNTP in particular does not authenticate. I
> could change the name and email address in the From: line to be
> "minforth@gmx.net (minforth)"; I might get problems with my NNTP
> provider, but I expect that there are providers who don't care (Google
> groups used to be one who was used for injecting huge amounts of
> illegitimate messages).
>
> One can inspect the headers of the message to discover traces of the
> spoofing, but 1) you don't provide a Message-Id for the supposedly
> spoofed message and 2) if the spoofed message was really from your
> account (i.e., your account is compromised rather than somebody
> exploiting the lack of authentication in Usenet), one will not see a
> difference in the headers.

It was this one:

-----------------------------------------------------
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!
feeder3.eternal-september.org!i2pn.org!i2pn2.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: minforth@gmx.net (minforth) Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Re: OT: Academia
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2024 18:46:38 +0000
Organization: novaBBS
Message-ID: <b1fdbdaa4ccda8151bf8ee7d33139d78@www.novabbs.com>
References: <6623c3e8$1@news.ausics.net> <v021lg$4541$1@dont-email.me>
<4dff8140dcc9ccc26c74e4bb3e95660f@www.novabbs.com> <v03e8i$csg7
$1@dont-email.me> <4147c32974b77d4e7ca7ecdb2c3b3e07@www.novabbs.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: i2pn2.org;
logging-data="1920641"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@i2pn2.org";
posting-account="0+ejqm+s29REto3A2x2P4fP+XaUXf51pZgtYBR0nEqI";
User-Agent: Rocksolid Light
X-Rslight-Site: $2y$10
$lkFDaqz9/GjvD6VlgZonSOKINyX8VMNHYUCHdFbTYxkJR7o6td4JC
X-Rslight-Posting-User: d2a19558f194e2f1f8393b8d9be9ef51734a4da3
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 4.0.0 Xref:
news.eternal-september.org comp.lang.forth:123618
-----------------------------------------------------
[abusive content deleted]

Newer post is (sadly wrapped by my pasting)

-----------------------------------------------------
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!
feeder3.eternal-september.org!i2pn.org!i2pn2.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: minforth@gmx.net (minforth) Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Re: OT: Academia
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2024 22:47:59 +0000
Organization: novaBBS
Message-ID: <781c1b2c1ed15bc9f8a86188583779b1@www.novabbs.com>
References: <6623c3e8$1@news.ausics.net> <v021lg$4541$1@dont-email.me>
<4dff8140dcc9ccc26c74e4bb3e95660f@www.novabbs.com> <v03e8i$csg7
$1@dont-email.me> <4147c32974b77d4e7ca7ecdb2c3b3e07@www.novabbs.com>
<v03tel$g3dd$1@dont-email.me> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Info: i2pn2.org; logging-data="1938704";
mail-complaints-to="usenet@i2pn2.org"; posting-account="0+ejqm
+s29REto3A2x2P4fP+XaUXf51pZgtYBR0nEqI"; User-Agent: Rocksolid Light
X-Rslight-Site: $2y$10
$0LPwYyVQ/WQsubh5XDk2ROzeHvp23u8P.baHQ5Z7.M1.ZmK8kY/Ra
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 4.0.0 X-Rslight-Posting-User:
d2a19558f194e2f1f8393b8d9be9ef51734a4da3 Xref: news.eternal-september.org
comp.lang.forth:123620

OT: is novabbs compromised ?????????????????
(see the last lunatic message using my account)
-----------------------------------------------------

Looks highly similar.

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

Thanks for looking into this. I tried to delete the account.
But either I am too stupid, or novabbs does not seem to offer it.
Strange.

mhx <mhx@iae.nl> wrote:
>
> It depends on what one calls 'higher education' and what one considers
> to be street smart. At least in the technical professions it doesn't

'street smarts' more along the line of navigating outside of one's own
turf (can you survive getting on the wrong subway in New York?).

Achilles was of noble character and the most highly skilled soldier on
the battle field but the troops put more faith in the 'sob' Aggamenom
to see them through the turbulence of war.

Had a colleague who was outstandingly brilliant, technically. Highly
bright, hard core engineers would stand in awe watching him operate.
However, all he knew of the outside world was the garbage the media
fed him. He did make a million playing options in the stock market but
the last I saw him he was off to take on the casinos. He was a nice
guy; I wish him well.

Modern day philosophers don't put much stock in Plato's idealism. But
I found it very relatable to the creative activity. An engineer or
artist has an idea that's maybe worked out on paper. But the crucial
effort is adapting it to the material that will contain it. The ideal
is good and interesting but realization takes getting intimate with
the material and dealing with some crud.

Now blind men do 'see' the elephant differently. To some its not so
bad but those are generally the ones that didn't spend much time under
the tail.

minforth <minforth@gmx.net> wrote:
> You old fogies are so retro! Just CO2-emitting f..ts!

Can't deny it :(

On 21/04/2024 11:23 pm, Krishna Myneni wrote:
> On 4/21/24 04:11, mhx wrote:
>> Krishna Myneni wrote:
>>
>>> Regarding free will and the theoretically deterministic nature of future possibilities, ... I've never lost any sleep over it.
>>
>> I remember having sleepness mornings over the issue when I was 10 years
>> old or so. This was caused by my parents urging me to go to church (I don't think they expected me to really listen what was being said).
>> I succeeded to work out both problems and have been extremely well-rested
>> on every Sunday since.
>
> It's hard enough predicting simple physics of a few particles interacting with each other. Forget about predicting a large scale system like the human brain. Under special situations like coherent quantum matter (Bose-Einstein condensates), the behavior of macroscopic collection of particles can be described using "mean-field" theories; otherwise, gross approximations are needed.
>
> I tend to dismiss statements like "in principle it is possible to determine the behavior of the brain" because it is neither a practical possibility, nor can we see any way of applying fundamental rules of quantum mechanics to such a complex, macroscopic object other than simulation by a similarly complex quantum system which can be initialized.

What is there to predict? Humans pursue gratification through accumulation.
And then like to claim they are individuals with free will :)

On 4/22/24 09:08, sjack wrote:
> minforth <minforth@gmx.net> wrote:
>> You old fogies are so retro! Just CO2-emitting f..ts!
>
> Can't deny it :(

When I read it, I laughed out loud (LOL'd ?) and my wife asked me what I
was laughing about.

Now, if you will excuse me, I have to get back to listening to the
latest album "dropped" by Taylor Swift.

--
Krishna

On 22/04/2024 4:46 am, minforth wrote:
> You old fogies are so retro! Just CO2-emitting f..ts!
> Study Post-Capitalist Queer Astrology for the progress of humanity!

Is that like Post-Moore Forth where one consults the Standards to
ascertain whether one's actions align with what has been ordained?