I ran across this transcript in the ACM archives
https://dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.1145/142835.142850
which mentions a Forth book called "Programming for the Utter Beginner"
by Michael Ham of Laboratory Microsystems Inc.

I searched for a paper or electronic version in the usual places but was
unable to determine if it actually exists. Is anyone aware of where I
could view or obtain a copy?

Buzz McCool wrote:

> I ran across this transcript in the ACM archives
> https://dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.1145/142835.142850
> which mentions a Forth book called "Programming for the Utter Beginner"
> by Michael Ham of Laboratory Microsystems Inc.

> I searched for a paper or electronic version in the usual places but was
> unable to determine if it actually exists. Is anyone aware of where I
> could view or obtain a copy?

Are your sure it's not his DDJ column collection? (DDJ online is unusable,
unfortunately). The title does not look like something that would get past
a copy editor :--)

-marcel

mhx wrote:

> Are your sure it's not his DDJ column collection? (DDJ online is unusable,
> unfortunately). The title does not look like something that would get past
> a copy editor :--)

Too fast. All DDJ issues are available here in their full glory:
https://archive.org/details/1987-08-dr-dobbs-journal/page/n5/mode/2up .

-marcel

PS: I also see dozens of Forth books, manuals, and implementation guides.
No trace of any *book* by Michael Ham, though.

On 26/04/2024 1:09 am, Buzz McCool wrote:
> I ran across this transcript in the ACM archives
> https://dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.1145/142835.142850
> which mentions a Forth book called "Programming for the Utter Beginner" by Michael Ham of Laboratory Microsystems Inc.
>
> I searched for a paper or electronic version in the usual places but was unable to determine if it actually exists. Is anyone aware of where I could view or obtain a copy?

Never came across the book but the companion forth compiler bundled with it
is here:

ftp://ftp.taygeta.com/pub/Forth/Compilers/native/dos/FirstForth.zip

Perhaps someone knows the corresponding http link (assuming that still exists).
The Taygeta forth archive search facility at forth.org seems to be broken.

On Thu, 25 Apr 2024 20:26:26 +0000
mhx@iae.nl (mhx) wrote:

> mhx wrote:
>
> > Are your sure it's not his DDJ column collection? (DDJ online is unusable,
> > unfortunately). The title does not look like something that would get past
> > a copy editor :--)
>
> Too fast. All DDJ issues are available here in their full glory:
> https://archive.org/details/1987-08-dr-dobbs-journal/page/n5/mode/2up .
>
> -marcel
>
> PS: I also see dozens of Forth books, manuals, and implementation guides.
> No trace of any *book* by Michael Ham, though.

They (pun intended)'d be in trouble these days:

The program must meet users’ rea-
sonable expectations. For example,
in one program it is necessary to de-
termine the user’s sex. For consisten-
cy with earlier menus, the user is
asked to respond to the menu “1—
Female, 2—Male,” but the program
accepts F, f, M, and m in addition to 1
and 2. S

Yes, Sex <>Gender. But what is this program doing? Giving prostate/breast
cancer advise?
--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

On Fri, 26 Apr 2024 09:08:04 +1000
dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 26/04/2024 1:09 am, Buzz McCool wrote:
> > I ran across this transcript in the ACM archives
> > https://dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.1145/142835.142850
> > which mentions a Forth book called "Programming for the Utter Beginner" by Michael Ham of Laboratory Microsystems Inc.
> >
> > I searched for a paper or electronic version in the usual places but was unable to determine if it actually exists. Is anyone aware of where I could view or obtain a copy?
>
> Never came across the book but the companion forth compiler bundled with it
> is here:
>
> ftp://ftp.taygeta.com/pub/Forth/Compilers/native/dos/FirstForth.zip
>
> Perhaps someone knows the corresponding http link (assuming that still exists).
> The Taygeta forth archive search facility at forth.org seems to be broken.
>

It says in the 'read.me'

When your payment is received, you will be shipped a copy of
*Programming for the Utter Beginner*. Your registration will be
recorded so that you will receive information on any upgrades to
FIRST/FORTH and on other LMI products. In addition, you will
receive a credit of $20 toward the purchase of UR/FORTH or WinForth.

So the 'bundling' goes the other way!
--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

>> On 26/04/2024 1:09 am, Buzz McCool wrote:
>>> I ran across this transcript in the ACM archives
>>> https://dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.1145/142835.142850
>>> which mentions a Forth book called "Programming for the Utter Beginner" by Michael Ham of Laboratory Microsystems Inc.
>>>
>>> I searched for a paper or electronic version in the usual places but was unable to determine if it actually exists. Is anyone aware of where I could view or obtain a copy?

> On Fri, 26 Apr 2024 09:08:04 +1000 dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> wrote: ...

On 4/26/2024 12:56 PM, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote: ...

Thanks for the detective work.

No sign of that book, but I did stumble across this November 1983
Laboratory Microsystems price list which may of historical interest to
some of you: https://tinyurl.com/mwvtvyht

On 27/04/2024 5:56 am, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Apr 2024 09:08:04 +1000
> dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 26/04/2024 1:09 am, Buzz McCool wrote:
>>> I ran across this transcript in the ACM archives
>>> https://dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.1145/142835.142850
>>> which mentions a Forth book called "Programming for the Utter Beginner" by Michael Ham of Laboratory Microsystems Inc.
>>>
>>> I searched for a paper or electronic version in the usual places but was unable to determine if it actually exists. Is anyone aware of where I could view or obtain a copy?
>>
>> Never came across the book but the companion forth compiler bundled with it
>> is here:
>>
>> ftp://ftp.taygeta.com/pub/Forth/Compilers/native/dos/FirstForth.zip
>>
>> Perhaps someone knows the corresponding http link (assuming that still exists).
>> The Taygeta forth archive search facility at forth.org seems to be broken.
>>
>
> It says in the 'read.me'
>
> When your payment is received, you will be shipped a copy of
> *Programming for the Utter Beginner*. Your registration will be
> recorded so that you will receive information on any upgrades to
> FIRST/FORTH and on other LMI products. In addition, you will
> receive a credit of $20 toward the purchase of UR/FORTH or WinForth.
>
>
> So the 'bundling' goes the other way!

Nor a particularly attractive bundle. $50 bought you a book for a crippled (IIRC)
compiler. At this time F-PC was free and doing the rounds of bulletin boards.
One could buy 'Starting Forth' 2nd Ed ($29) and still have change in the pocket.

Found these old posts:

https://groups.google.com/g/comp.lang.forth/c/zPIjr10Sf54/m/m6Ygp7jXol8J

https://groups.google.com/g/comp.lang.forth/c/Sq8mpnyB5qA/m/VRXw7MNoQmsJ

dxf wrote:
[..]
> Nor a particularly attractive bundle.
[..]

The price alone says nothing. What was the quality of the compiler compared
to equivalent systems?

If (from that page) I add up the prices of all the packages that nowadays
seem essential, I come to $1,500. In 1986 this was equivalent in purchasing
power to about $4,274.62 today. In today's reality, that is about 40 to 100
times as much as people are prepared to pay for any piece of software based
on an add in their favorite magazine (or that I myself would have been *able*
to pay as a student in that era).

What does this say? I don't know.

> $50 bought you a book for a crippled (IIRC) compiler. At this time F-PC was
> free and doing the rounds of bulletin boards.

Are sure about that date? I thought F-PC came much later, in 1994.
Downloading 1 MBytes through a 300 Baud connection takes ~30,000 seconds
or 9 hours and 25 minutes.

-marcel

On 27/04/2024 4:21 pm, mhx wrote:
> dxf wrote:
> [..]
>> Nor a particularly attractive bundle. 
> [..]
>
> The price alone says nothing. What was the quality of the compiler compared
> to equivalent systems?

IIRC it was DTC which puts performance in the same class as F-PC. It came
with no sources - not even for the extensions (DOS, SFP). Only in its last
days did LMI offer 'shareware' products. To what extent LMI would have
supported these, we'll never know.

> If (from that page) I add up the prices of all the packages that nowadays seem essential, I come to $1,500. In 1986 this was equivalent in purchasing
> power to about $4,274.62 today. In today's reality, that is about 40 to 100
> times as much as people are prepared to pay for any piece of software based
> on an add in their favorite magazine (or that I myself would have been *able*
> to pay as a student in that era).
>
> What does this say? I don't know.

Today it's a buyer's market.

>> $50 bought you a book for a crippled (IIRC) compiler.  At this time F-PC was
>> free and doing the rounds of bulletin boards.
>
> Are sure about that date? I thought F-PC came much later, in 1994.
> Downloading 1 MBytes through a 300 Baud connection takes ~30,000 seconds or 9 hours and 25 minutes.
> -marcel

1994 is when ANS emerged effectively killing interest in F-FPC. F-PC was around
long before 1992.

mhx@iae.nl (mhx) writes:
> Are sure about that date? I thought F-PC came much later, in 1994.
> Downloading 1 MBytes through a 300 Baud connection takes ~30,000
> seconds or 9 hours and 25 minutes.

By 1994, modems were a lot faster (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USRobotics):

In 1986, USR introduced their Courier HST, short for "high speed
transfer". Using trellis encoding, HST provided 9,600 bit/s speeds,
leapfrogging the standards efforts and offering four times the
performance for about twice the price of a 2400 bit/s model. In 1989
HST was expanded to 14.4 kbit/s, 16.8 kbit/s in 1992,[6] and finally
to 21 kbit/s and 24 kbit/s.

Alas, when the Forth branch was falling off the programming tree

On 26/4/24 06:26, mhx wrote:
> mhx wrote:
>
>> Are your sure it's not his DDJ column collection? (DDJ online is
>> unusable,
>> unfortunately). The title does not look like something that would get
>> past a copy editor :--)
>
> Too fast. All DDJ issues are available here in their full glory:
> https://archive.org/details/1987-08-dr-dobbs-journal/page/n5/mode/2up .
>
> -marcel
>
> PS: I also see dozens of Forth books, manuals, and implementation guides.
> No trace of any *book* by Michael Ham, though.

--
Go well,
Colin