On 27/08/2023 10:32, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
> On 2023-08-27, james...@alumni.caltech.edu <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> wrote:
>> Yes, that's the conversion that David was referring to, that screws up
>> makefiles. What's needed is an editor where tapping tab places a tab
>> character (and NOT 4 spaces) in the saved makefile.
>
> If your programer's editor does not recognize "Makefile" or
> "whatever.mk" and adjust its settings for makefile editing, here
> is a dime kid ...
>

Most editors can handle that. But I have used a large number of editors
over the years, on different OS's - some sophisticated, some less so,
depending on my needs at the time. And sometime I've accidentally
triggered a tab-to-space conversion.

On 8/27/2023 7:58 AM, David Brown wrote:
> On 27/08/2023 10:32, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
>> On 2023-08-27, james...@alumni.caltech.edu
>> <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> wrote:
>>> Yes, that's the conversion that David was referring to, that screws up
>>> makefiles. What's needed is an editor where tapping tab places a tab
>>> character (and NOT 4 spaces) in the saved makefile.
>>
>> If your programer's editor does not recognize "Makefile" or
>> "whatever.mk" and adjust its settings for makefile editing, here
>> is a dime kid ...
>>
>
> Most editors can handle that.

Yup. MSVC handles that. A tab is 4 spaces in my personal C++ code.
Actually, there is a funny scene in Silicon Valley about this very issue:

https://youtu.be/SsoOG6ZeyUI

> But I have used a large number of editors
> over the years, on different OS's - some sophisticated, some less so,
> depending on my needs at the time.  And sometime I've accidentally
> triggered a tab-to-space conversion.
>
>

On 8/27/2023 7:52 AM, David Brown wrote:
> On 27/08/2023 05:57, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
>> On 8/19/2023 4:19 AM, David Brown wrote:
>>> On 18/08/2023 23:34, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Have you ever forgot to use a tab in a makefile?
>>>
>>> I don't think so, because I use tabs generally for spacing.  (Some
>>> people prefer spaces, others tabs.)  But I /have/ had an editor
>>> convert tabs to spaces, or spaces to tabs, on saving a makefile - and
>>> that really does screw things up.
>>>
>>> I doubt if there is anyone that considers the distinction between
>>> tabs and spaces in makefiles to be a good idea.  That includes the
>>> original author of make.
>>>
>>
>> Tabs for spacing, humm, as in tap tab and 4 spaces are generated, right?
>
> No - press the tab key, and a tab character is generated.  I generally
> view files at 4 spaces per tab.  But I mostly use real tab characters in
> my files.  However, consistency is very important - if I'm working with
> a file with spaces, I keep it as spaces (unless I am making so many
> changes that I do a spaces-to-tab operation in my editor).
>

Right now, I have my editor setup where a single press of a tab
generates four spaces.

Tim Rentsch to Anton Shepelev:

> > A modular program is one comprising two or more moules,
> > such as introduced in Modula [...]
>
> Modules appeared earlier in the programming language Mesa.
> Modula copied them from Mesa.

Bad word choice on my part. I quoted Modula as an example of
a language with modules, not as the first programming
language on Earth to support them. Modula introduced its own
kind of module.

Now that I have looked up Mesa in Wikipedia, I see that
Mesa's modules are similar to C's header-source pairs in
that they consist of at least two files. Not so in Modula,
where a module is a single self-contained source file.
Furthermore, Wikipedia lists Modula as predating Mesa by a
year.

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Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> writes:

> Tim Rentsch to Anton Shepelev:
>
>>> A modular program is one comprising two or more moules,
>>> such as introduced in Modula [...]
>>
>> Modules appeared earlier in the programming language Mesa.
>> Modula copied them from Mesa.
>
> Bad word choice on my part. I quoted Modula as an example of
> a language with modules, not as the first programming
> language on Earth to support them. Modula introduced its own
> kind of module.

Okay.

> Now that I have looked up Mesa in Wikipedia, I see that
> Mesa's modules are similar to C's header-source pairs in
> that they consist of at least two files. Not so in Modula,
> where a module is a single self-contained source file.

Okay.

> Furthermore, Wikipedia lists Modula as predating Mesa by a
> year.

Niklaus Wirth was at Xerox PARC while Mesa was being developed.
It was after that experience that he started working on Modula.

nothing