Dear DICOM experts,

we are currently updating the DCS of our DICOM library to the latest Part 2.. I can tell it is a lot of work :-D.

I have a question about the IOD tables.N.9 A.A names a list of terms for the "Source" column. It says they "can be used" and does not explicitly state that other values "can not be used". But I am interpreting it this way.

Question 1: Correct? It is not allowed / desired that authors of the DCS would extend the terms?

Supposed that the answer is "Correct, you may only use these terms in Part 2"...my "problem" refers to the Referenced Performed Procedure Step Sequence (0008,1111). Technically, the source is "MPPS" here, but this is not an allowed term. The best approximation seems to be "GENERATED" to me, but that's a very generic term, and I wonder why "from MWL" can be explicitly expressed while "from MPPS" can not.

Question 2: Any hint how I should go about that?

Thank you very much

Markus

Hi Markus,

Fair question, made me curious, too.
There is the following instruction: "For the "Source" column use one of the pre-defined terms above [...]". This sounds straight and would not need a term like "shall" because it directly addresses the reader.
So, maybe therein lies the answer.

Regarding "MPPS" vs "GENERATED" it can be argued that MPPS information is indeed "generated by the system".
It's like: A breed of a dog is a dog, yet a dog can be of any breed.
Maybe either of the columns "Value" or "Comments" are the intended means to tell the breed.
How your sw archticture manages procedure steps and created objects might not be relevant, here.

Anyway, let's see if there will be more certain replies.

Best regards,
Peter

Peter Chripunow schrieb am Mittwoch, 30. August 2023 um 09:05:03 UTC+2:
> Hi Markus,
>
> Maybe either of the columns "Value" or "Comments" are the intended means to tell the breed.

Good idea. If there is no better suggestion, I'll go ahead this way. Source = "CONVERTED" and Comment = "from MPPS" would tell the story. Thanks for your suggestion.

Markus,

you might also want to contact DICOM WG-31 (Conformance) [1] and ask what their intention was when they wrote "can be used" :-)

[1] https://www.dicomstandard.org/activity/wgs/wg-31

Regards,
Jörg

Hi Markus,

I have written a few DICOM Conformance Statements for customers in the past, and am still offering this as a service through https://www.workshopfor.me/. So I think I can help you with this :).

If the information for this attribute was received by MPPS, then MPPS should be specified in the source column, and the value MPPS should also be defined in the beginning of this section, after the sentence "In the "Source" column, the following Values can be used". If e.g. your system would also have a HL7 interface, then HL7 could also be used in the source column in the same way. The most important thing here is that the reader of the DCS knows where all information for a created SOP Instances comes from, and the reader would expect to see this in the Source column, and not in other columns..

Also note "[For all SOP Instances of supported Storage SOP Classes (including Real-Time Video objects) that can be created by the system".
I was not able to find Referenced Performed Procedure Step Sequence (0008,1111) in part 3, so I am wondering if the information you are describing actually belongs in the N.9 AA section?

Regards,
Marco

Hi Marco,

thank you very much for your thoughts. Sure I could do as you suggest (that was actually my question), but I just wanted to make sure that this extension of the possible values for the "Source" column is fine with the authors of part 2. The new style of part 2 and the DCS is much more formalized than before, so I was hesitant to just extend the list of possible values.
@Jörg Riesmeier: Thank you for your advice, which I followed. But yet I have not received a reply from the WG-31. If I receive any information, I will share it here.

About your question: The Refererenced PPS Sequence (0008,1111) is part of the General Series Module (https://dicom.nema.org/medical/Dicom/2016e/output/chtml/part03/sect_C.7.3.html), hence part of almost any DICOM object to reference the PPS to which the object belongs. It is type 3 in the General Series Module, but an IHE requirement for attribute transfer in SWF.b.

Best,

Markus

Marco Kemper schrieb am Sonntag, 3. September 2023 um 21:36:03 UTC+2:
> Hi Markus,
> [...]
> Marco