Encrypted communications app Signal is mulling an exit from the UK
market in response to a new law threatening its core operational model,
while E2EE email service provider Tutanota is taking the opposite
approach, pledging to stay and help the British protect their
communications from government scrutiny.

The law in question is the “Online Safety Bill,” which is a proposed
legislation in the UK that threatens to eliminate encrypted
communications in the country by adding a backdoor for law enforcement
agencies, and a new regulator, the Online Safety Commissioner.

While the UK government maintains that the law’s aggressive provisions
are required to protect vulnerable internet users like children, privacy
advocates criticize the proposal for the impact it could have on free
speech and privacy.

Signal to Exit
Signal’s president Meredith Whittaker stated earlier this week that the
proposed bill undermines people’s right to communicate securely and
privately, and encryption cannot work only for those who respect the
law. “Encryption is either protecting everyone or it is broken for
everyone,” commented Whittaker.

Moreover, Signal’s president said that if any backdoor exists on
software, it will be targeted by malicious state actors who want to
leverage it for their own intelligence collection purposes, so this
approach will inevitably weaken secure communication products.

In conclusion, Whittaker said Signal would “absolutely, 100% walk” from
the UK if the Online Safety Bill passes, forcing it to weaken the
privacy of its users and betray their trust.

Tutanota to Stay
Today, Germany-based secure email service provider Tutanota published a
post stating that they will not walk out of the UK, and they also do not
plan to comply with any of the UK government’s requests to backdoor
their encryption.

“If Prime Minister Rishi Sunak and his government want to stop people in
the UK from using strong encryption – like provided by our secure email
service Tutanota – he must block access to Tutanota – just like Russia
and Iran are already doing,” stated Tutanota’s co-founder Matthias Pfau
in a strong message to the UK government.

“By doing so, the UK would put itself on the same level as authoritarian
regimes like Russia, Iran, North Korea, and China, who are known for
setting up Great Firewalls to limit their people’s access to the
internet and online services.”

Pfau calls the decision-makers in the UK to reconsider their approach on
the matter, warning them that there can be no safe backdoor reserved
only for the good guys, and there can not be real security when it’s
punched even with good intentions.

The company criticized Online Safety Bill extensively in a dedicated
post back in November 2022, developing several arguments against the
various provisions of the law, as well as sending an open letter to UK’s
Prime Minister.

Tutanota’s founder further warns that secure communications aren’t
threatened only in the UK. There are many politicians arguing in favor
of encryption backdoors in the EU, USA, and Australia, too, lobbying for
the implementation of associated laws.

Currently, the Online Safety Bill has been approved by the House of
Commons in the UK’s Parliament and is in the House of Lords stage, where
the final decision is to be taken.

The law has not been passed yet, but it’s on its way, but it might
implement amendments that will lessen the adverse effects on private
communications products.

https://restoreprivacy.com/signal-threatens-to-leave-uk-over-new-law-
tutanota-pledges-to-stay/

The Tuta Spammer wrote:

> Encrypted communications app Signal is mulling an exit from the UK
> market in response to a new law threatening its core operational model,
> while E2EE email service provider Tutanota is taking the opposite
> approach, pledging to stay and help the British protect their
> communications from government scrutiny.

Signal is a messaging app, while the Tuta shit deals with email.

First, we have instant messaging alternatives like the federated
distributed open (non-commercial) XMPP network, that allows true E2EE.

And for privacy aware people there's no reason to use any external mail
hoster, as for true end-to-end encryption we process all messages at
home with OpenPGP plugins, available for all major mail clients. In
addition there's a locally run proxy server named OmniMix, which even
allows undetectably hidden mail communication by using Chaumian mix
networks and nym servers.

So no reason to be scared of the British government.

On Thu, 14 Mar 2024, Yamn Remailer wrote:

> The Tuta Spammer wrote:
>
>> Encrypted communications app Signal is mulling an exit from the UK
>> market in response to a new law threatening its core operational model,
>> while E2EE email service provider Tutanota is taking the opposite
>> approach, pledging to stay and help the British protect their
>> communications from government scrutiny.
>
> Signal is a messaging app, while the Tuta shit deals with email.
>
> First, we have instant messaging alternatives like the federated
> distributed open (non-commercial) XMPP network, that allows true E2EE.
>
> And for privacy aware people there's no reason to use any external mail
> hoster, as for true end-to-end encryption we process all messages at
> home with OpenPGP plugins, available for all major mail clients. In
> addition there's a locally run proxy server named OmniMix, which even
> allows undetectably hidden mail communication by using Chaumian mix
> networks and nym servers.
>
> So no reason to be scared of the British government.

That is not the point. You and possibly I, can protect ourselves as long
as we are not high value targets.

But the masses who do not know about computers will have their human
rights violated. That is the problem.

I don't use signal because I do not like the central model they have,
which in my opinion is a weakness, but what signal does right is to be
easy enough to use to get non-technical users to use them.

Also saw this today regarding chat control:

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2024/03/european-court-human-rights-confirms-undermining-encryption-violates-fundamental

Let's see if the EU politicians will rewrite article 8 or just torture the
interpretation of the verdict somehow.

On Thu 14 Mar 2024 11:10 am, Yamn Remailer wrote:

> So no reason to be scared of the British government.
>

lol.

On 3/13/2024 6:14 PM, anonymous wrote:
> Encrypted communications app Signal is mulling an exit from the UK
> market in response to a new law threatening its core operational model,
> while E2EE email service provider Tutanota is taking the opposite
> approach, pledging to stay and help the British protect their
> communications from government scrutiny.

[snipped]

Instead of an encryption service, use PGP.

--
David E. Ross
<http://www.rossde.com/>

Demonstrators worldwide are demanding that Israel stop
fighting in Gaza. Why does it seem that no one is demanding
that Hamas stop fighting? And where are the demonstrations
against Russia fighting in the Ukraine.

Fritz Wuehler wrote:
>On Thu 14 Mar 2024 11:10 am, Yamn Remailer wrote:
>
>> So no reason to be scared of the British government.
>>
>
>lol.

You really think they can keep me from using Tor and further approved
privacy protecting communication techniques by law, which inevitably
would convert our free society into an autocratic regime like China?

In article <de64e66c-d288-e066-39b0-e90566dd4c4f@example.net> D wrote:
>On Thu, 14 Mar 2024, Yamn Remailer wrote:
>
>> The Tuta Spammer wrote:
>>
>>> Encrypted communications app Signal is mulling an exit from the UK
>>> market in response to a new law threatening its core operational model,
>>> while E2EE email service provider Tutanota is taking the opposite
>>> approach, pledging to stay and help the British protect their
>>> communications from government scrutiny.
>>
>> Signal is a messaging app, while the Tuta shit deals with email.
>>
>> First, we have instant messaging alternatives like the federated
>> distributed open (non-commercial) XMPP network, that allows true E2EE.
>>
>> And for privacy aware people there's no reason to use any external mail
>> hoster, as for true end-to-end encryption we process all messages at
>> home with OpenPGP plugins, available for all major mail clients. In
>> addition there's a locally run proxy server named OmniMix, which even
>> allows undetectably hidden mail communication by using Chaumian mix
>> networks and nym servers.
>>
>> So no reason to be scared of the British government.
>
>That is not the point. You and possibly I, can protect ourselves as long
>as we are not high value targets.
>
>But the masses who do not know about computers will have their human
>rights violated. That is the problem.

No, the problem is THEY DON'T CARE!

Offer them easy to use privacy tools, THEY DON'T CARE!
Offer them PGP-capable mail clients for webmailers, THEY DON'T CARE!
Offer them Mastodon for X, THEY DON'T CARE!
Offer them XMPP for WhatsApp, THEY DON'T CARE!

THEY SIMPLY DON'T CARE!

But, my friend, our time will come ...

On Thu, 14 Mar 2024 20:18:44 +0100 (CET), Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> wrote:
>Fritz Wuehler wrote:
>>On Thu 14 Mar 2024 11:10 am, Yamn Remailer wrote:
>>> So no reason to be scared of the British government.
>>
>>lol.
>
>You really think they can keep me from using Tor and further approved
>privacy protecting communication techniques by law, which inevitably
>would convert our free society into an autocratic regime like China?

used judiciously, omnimix and tor browser work better than anything
else . . . those that live by the sword have always ruled the world

On Thu, 14 Mar 2024, Anonymous wrote:

> In article <de64e66c-d288-e066-39b0-e90566dd4c4f@example.net> D wrote:
>> On Thu, 14 Mar 2024, Yamn Remailer wrote:
>>
>>> The Tuta Spammer wrote:
>>>
>>>> Encrypted communications app Signal is mulling an exit from the UK
>>>> market in response to a new law threatening its core operational model,
>>>> while E2EE email service provider Tutanota is taking the opposite
>>>> approach, pledging to stay and help the British protect their
>>>> communications from government scrutiny.
>>>
>>> Signal is a messaging app, while the Tuta shit deals with email.
>>>
>>> First, we have instant messaging alternatives like the federated
>>> distributed open (non-commercial) XMPP network, that allows true E2EE.
>>>
>>> And for privacy aware people there's no reason to use any external mail
>>> hoster, as for true end-to-end encryption we process all messages at
>>> home with OpenPGP plugins, available for all major mail clients. In
>>> addition there's a locally run proxy server named OmniMix, which even
>>> allows undetectably hidden mail communication by using Chaumian mix
>>> networks and nym servers.
>>>
>>> So no reason to be scared of the British government.
>>
>> That is not the point. You and possibly I, can protect ourselves as long
>> as we are not high value targets.
>>
>> But the masses who do not know about computers will have their human
>> rights violated. That is the problem.
>
> No, the problem is THEY DON'T CARE!
>
> Offer them easy to use privacy tools, THEY DON'T CARE!
> Offer them PGP-capable mail clients for webmailers, THEY DON'T CARE!
> Offer them Mastodon for X, THEY DON'T CARE!
> Offer them XMPP for WhatsApp, THEY DON'T CARE!
>
> THEY SIMPLY DON'T CARE!
>
> But, my friend, our time will come ...
>
>

You make a good point. The next logical question is... _why_ don't they
care?

Worsening education? Slavery to their smart phones? Existential pressures?

On Thu, 14 Mar 2024, Anonymous wrote:

> In article <de64e66c-d288-e066-39b0-e90566dd4c4f@example.net> D wrote:
>> On Thu, 14 Mar 2024, Yamn Remailer wrote:
>>
>>> The Tuta Spammer wrote:
>>>
>>>> Encrypted communications app Signal is mulling an exit from the UK
>>>> market in response to a new law threatening its core operational model,
>>>> while E2EE email service provider Tutanota is taking the opposite
>>>> approach, pledging to stay and help the British protect their
>>>> communications from government scrutiny.
>>>
>>> Signal is a messaging app, while the Tuta shit deals with email.
>>>
>>> First, we have instant messaging alternatives like the federated
>>> distributed open (non-commercial) XMPP network, that allows true E2EE.
>>>
>>> And for privacy aware people there's no reason to use any external mail
>>> hoster, as for true end-to-end encryption we process all messages at
>>> home with OpenPGP plugins, available for all major mail clients. In
>>> addition there's a locally run proxy server named OmniMix, which even
>>> allows undetectably hidden mail communication by using Chaumian mix
>>> networks and nym servers.
>>>
>>> So no reason to be scared of the British government.
>>
>> That is not the point. You and possibly I, can protect ourselves as long
>> as we are not high value targets.
>>
>> But the masses who do not know about computers will have their human
>> rights violated. That is the problem.
>
> No, the problem is THEY DON'T CARE!
>
> Offer them easy to use privacy tools, THEY DON'T CARE!
> Offer them PGP-capable mail clients for webmailers, THEY DON'T CARE!
> Offer them Mastodon for X, THEY DON'T CARE!
> Offer them XMPP for WhatsApp, THEY DON'T CARE!
>
> THEY SIMPLY DON'T CARE!
>
> But, my friend, our time will come ...
>
>

Adding to my previous question, perhaps an answer from Kant himself?

https://web.archive.org/web/20240314052227/http://www.columbia.edu/acis/ets/CCREAD/etscc/kant.html

Enjoy!

On Thu 14 Mar 2024 11:57 pm, D wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Mar 2024 20:18:44 +0100 (CET), Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> wrote:
>> Fritz Wuehler wrote:
>>> On Thu 14 Mar 2024 11:10 am, Yamn Remailer wrote:
>>>> So no reason to be scared of the British government.
>>>
>>> lol.
>>
>> You really think they can keep me from using Tor and further approved
>> privacy protecting communication techniques by law, which inevitably
>> would convert our free society into an autocratic regime like China?
>
> used judiciously, omnimix and tor browser work better than anything
> else . . . those that live by the sword have always ruled the world
>
Those that live by the sword, die by the sword.

On 2024-03-14, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>
>
> On Thu, 14 Mar 2024, Anonymous wrote:
>
>> In article <de64e66c-d288-e066-39b0-e90566dd4c4f@example.net> D wrote:
>>> On Thu, 14 Mar 2024, Yamn Remailer wrote:
>>>
>>>> The Tuta Spammer wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Encrypted communications app Signal is mulling an exit from the UK
>>>>> market in response to a new law threatening its core operational model,
>>>>> while E2EE email service provider Tutanota is taking the opposite
>>>>> approach, pledging to stay and help the British protect their
>>>>> communications from government scrutiny.
>>>>
>>>> Signal is a messaging app, while the Tuta shit deals with email.
>>>>
>>>> First, we have instant messaging alternatives like the federated
>>>> distributed open (non-commercial) XMPP network, that allows true E2EE.
>>>>
>>>> And for privacy aware people there's no reason to use any external mail
>>>> hoster, as for true end-to-end encryption we process all messages at
>>>> home with OpenPGP plugins, available for all major mail clients. In
>>>> addition there's a locally run proxy server named OmniMix, which even
>>>> allows undetectably hidden mail communication by using Chaumian mix
>>>> networks and nym servers.
>>>>
>>>> So no reason to be scared of the British government.
>>>
>>> That is not the point. You and possibly I, can protect ourselves as long
>>> as we are not high value targets.
>>>
>>> But the masses who do not know about computers will have their human
>>> rights violated. That is the problem.
>>
>> No, the problem is THEY DON'T CARE!
>>
>> Offer them easy to use privacy tools, THEY DON'T CARE!
>> Offer them PGP-capable mail clients for webmailers, THEY DON'T CARE!
>> Offer them Mastodon for X, THEY DON'T CARE!
>> Offer them XMPP for WhatsApp, THEY DON'T CARE!
>>
>> THEY SIMPLY DON'T CARE!
>>
>> But, my friend, our time will come ...
>>
>>
>
> You make a good point. The next logical question is... _why_ don't they
> care?

They do not are because there is nothng that they can do about it. They
do not understand what the problem and why it is a problem and they do
not have the time or the background to know what the problem is and what
to do about it. And thy distrust other ( your ducation has produced
that) that they are not going to jump on any tool anyone tells them will
solve the ununderstood problem.

Life has enought issues to take up all of anyone's time if they worry
about even .000001% of them. How to decide which ones to spend time on
if you understand none of them?

>
> Worsening education? Slavery to their smart phones? Existential pressures?

On Thu 14 Mar 2024 10:18 pm, Nomen Nescio wrote:
> Fritz Wuehler wrote:
>> On Thu 14 Mar 2024 11:10 am, Yamn Remailer wrote:
>>
>>> So no reason to be scared of the British government.
>>>
>>
>> lol.
>
> You really think they can keep me from using Tor and further approved
> privacy protecting communication techniques by law, which inevitably
> would convert our free society into an autocratic regime like China?
>
The majority of the West's populations believe their governments
constant propaganda that they are free societies. The UK has
no free speech, with anything contradicting official Marxist state
narrative labelled 'hate speech' - straight out of Orwell.

On Fri, 15 Mar 2024, Anonymous wrote:

> On Thu 14 Mar 2024 10:18 pm, Nomen Nescio wrote:
>> Fritz Wuehler wrote:
>>> On Thu 14 Mar 2024 11:10 am, Yamn Remailer wrote:
>>>
>>>> So no reason to be scared of the British government.
>>>>
>>>
>>> lol.
>>
>> You really think they can keep me from using Tor and further approved
>> privacy protecting communication techniques by law, which inevitably
>> would convert our free society into an autocratic regime like China?
>>
> The majority of the West's populations believe their governments
> constant propaganda that they are free societies. The UK has
> no free speech, with anything contradicting official Marxist state narrative
> labelled 'hate speech' - straight out of Orwell.

Freedom in the modern world, is a continuum across many different axles. I
would argue that on some, the west is way more free than north korea. On
others, I'm certain north korea might be more free (if you belong to "the
party" for instance, I'm certain you are more free in north korea than in
northern europe for some things).

On Thu, 14 Mar 2024 08:20:27 -0700, "David E. Ross" <nobody@nowhere.invalid>
wrote:

> On 3/13/2024 6:14 PM, anonymous wrote:
>> Encrypted communications app Signal is mulling an exit from the UK
>> market in response to a new law threatening its core operational model,
>> while E2EE email service provider Tutanota is taking the opposite
>> approach, pledging to stay and help the British protect their
>> communications from government scrutiny.
>
> [snipped]
>
> Instead of an encryption service, use PGP.
>
> http://www.rossde.com/

Excellent advice. Unfortunately, for the vast majority of the public, this
advice is about as acceptable as a glass full of castor oil.

Stainless Steel Rat

On Fri, 15 Mar 2024 06:08:58 +0100, Fritz Wuehler <fritz@spamexpire-202403.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> wrote:
>On Thu 14 Mar 2024 11:57 pm, D wrote:
>> On Thu, 14 Mar 2024 20:18:44 +0100 (CET), Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> wrote:
>>> Fritz Wuehler wrote:
>>>> On Thu 14 Mar 2024 11:10 am, Yamn Remailer wrote:
>>>>> So no reason to be scared of the British government.
>>>>
>>>> lol.
>>>
>>> You really think they can keep me from using Tor and further approved
>>> privacy protecting communication techniques by law, which inevitably
>>> would convert our free society into an autocratic regime like China?
>>
>> used judiciously, omnimix and tor browser work better than anything
>> else . . . those that live by the sword have always ruled the world
>>
>Those that live by the sword, die by the sword.

can't fight city hall

Anonymous <nobody@yamn.paranoici.org> wrote:
>On Thu 14 Mar 2024 10:18 pm, Nomen Nescio wrote:
>> Fritz Wuehler wrote:
>>> On Thu 14 Mar 2024 11:10 am, Yamn Remailer wrote:
>>>
>>>> So no reason to be scared of the British government.
>>>>
>>>
>>> lol.
>>
>> You really think they can keep me from using Tor and further approved
>> privacy protecting communication techniques by law, which inevitably
>> would convert our free society into an autocratic regime like China?
>>
>The majority of the West's populations believe their governments
>constant propaganda that they are free societies. The UK has
>no free speech, with anything contradicting official Marxist state
>narrative labelled 'hate speech' - straight out of Orwell.

The same goes for Germany. And that dictation of public opinion
standards smothering any kind of sincere exchange of views, e.g. about
vital issues like environmental pollution, energy politics, mass
immigration and Zionism, inevitably brings radical counterforces to the
scene. The stated 'lack of alternatives' frustrates our population and
thereby is the basic threat to our democracy throwing it out of balance
by provoking harsh reactions.

On Fri, 15 Mar 2024 14:09:27 +0100 (CET), Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> wrote:
>Anonymous <nobody@yamn.paranoici.org> wrote:
>>On Thu 14 Mar 2024 10:18 pm, Nomen Nescio wrote:
>>> Fritz Wuehler wrote:
>>>> On Thu 14 Mar 2024 11:10 am, Yamn Remailer wrote:
>>>>> So no reason to be scared of the British government.
>>>>
>>>> lol.
>>>
>>> You really think they can keep me from using Tor and further approved
>>> privacy protecting communication techniques by law, which inevitably
>>> would convert our free society into an autocratic regime like China?
>>>
>>The majority of the West's populations believe their governments
>>constant propaganda that they are free societies. The UK has
>>no free speech, with anything contradicting official Marxist state
>>narrative labelled 'hate speech' - straight out of Orwell.
>
>The same goes for Germany. And that dictation of public opinion
>standards smothering any kind of sincere exchange of views, e.g. about
>vital issues like environmental pollution, energy politics, mass
>immigration and Zionism, inevitably brings radical counterforces to the
>scene. The stated 'lack of alternatives' frustrates our population and
>thereby is the basic threat to our democracy throwing it out of balance
>by provoking harsh reactions.

pacifists are powerless against activists . . . avoid not evade

>Excellent advice. Unfortunately, for the vast majority of the public,
this
>advice is about as acceptable as a glass full of castor oil.

Agree Stainless Steel Rat.
Well before you get to the glimmer of the need for privacy and the need
for PGP
most have a job to string together two paragraphs that make cognitive
sense.

I'm 70 years old now and have given up hope that friends, relations and
associates
might see the need for PGP and act accordingly.

I've tried to explain to researchers that delve into topics that might
require protection
for the sender and receiver, but I get blank stares.
So my follow-up is along the lines of, then don't expect whistleblowers
to make contact if
you think texting in the clear is perfectly acceptable.

Cheers
Fred