I quite liked Jesus's proposal to have a preliminary KO round.

But here is another idea.
Have 16 groups of three, with each group paired with another one so that
they are effectively a group of six.

ROund robin in each group of three with the top 2 advancing to play two
further games against the top two in the paired group of 3.
Top two from this new group of 4 progress to the round of 16.

Last placed teams in each group of 3 get one more game vs. the last
placed team in the paired group. For pride and fun. And final placing.

Sure it adds one more game per team in the round robin stage for the
successful ones, but it avoids the whole best 3rd place scenario which
otherwise comes up. And also allows brackets to be fixed in advance
which is something FIFA seems to like for some reason.

As I recall Jesus suggested the top 8 first placed teams would get a bye
in the KO round, with the other 4 playing off against 4 of the second
placed teams (and 4 games between second placed teams)

MH escreveu:
> I quite liked Jesus's proposal to have a preliminary KO round.
>
> But here is another idea.
> Have 16 groups of three, with each group paired with another one so that
> they are effectively a group of six.
>
> ROund robin in each group of three with the top 2 advancing to play two
> further games against the top two in the paired group of 3.
> Top two from this new group of 4 progress to the round of 16.

I was at first thinking that this doesn't really avoid the issue of third
group game "biscottos" that emerge with the format of 2 teams qualifying out
of 3-team groups. But then I realized that it kinda does, if you carry the
points from the 3-team group into the new group of four, which, I presume,
is your proposal?

> Last placed teams in each group of 3 get one more game vs. the last
> placed team in the paired group. For pride and fun. And final placing.

Yeah. Plus, it avoids making them travel to the host country to play two
games only, even if the third won't take them anywhere in the cup (which
otherwise would be the case for half of the field anyway).

For a really crazy idea, you could get all 16 3rd placed teams and make
them playoff until only one remains. Put a consolation cup on the line.
Call it the "Silver World Cup" or "World Cup Serie B", or whatever :-)
It's not like they'd be busy elsewhere in this period, right?

> Sure it adds one more game per team in the round robin stage for the
> successful ones,

But then, so would the Round of 32 predicted in FIFA's proposed formats.

> but it avoids the whole best 3rd place scenario which
> otherwise comes up. And also allows brackets to be fixed in advance
> which is something FIFA seems to like for some reason.

I think fixed brackets are a good idea for a month-long cup, since you don't
have to schedule further draws between rounds. Plus, it allows for better
planning, as teams will have an idea about where they'll have to travel to.

For season-long cups, though, yeah, you can draw every round.

> As I recall Jesus suggested the top 8 first placed teams would get a bye
> in the KO round, with the other 4 playing off against 4 of the second
> placed teams (and 4 games between second placed teams)

Interesting proposals, yours and Jesus'.

Best regards,
Lléo

On 2023-05-17 16:56, Lléo wrote:
> MH escreveu:
>> I quite liked Jesus's proposal to have a preliminary KO round.
>>
>> But here is another idea.
>> Have 16 groups of three, with each group paired with another one so that
>> they are effectively a group of six.
>>
>> ROund robin in each group of three with the top 2 advancing to play two
>> further games against the top two in the paired group of 3.
>> Top two from this new group of 4 progress to the round of 16.
>
>
> I was at first thinking that this doesn't really avoid the issue of third
> group game "biscottos" that emerge with the format of 2 teams qualifying out
> of 3-team groups. But then I realized that it kinda does, if you carry the
> points from the 3-team group into the new group of four, which, I presume,
> is your proposal?

Well the new group of 4 (top two in each of the paired groups of three)
would use the games that have already taken place between each set of
two teams, so there would be a strong disincentive to throw a game or
play for a draw. This also compensates for the uneven schedule of a
three team group - yes two teams could enter the final game knowing
exactly what they need to progress - but they won't know at that stage
how many points they will ultimately need from that last match, which
will carry forward.
>
>
>> Last placed teams in each group of 3 get one more game vs. the last
>> placed team in the paired group. For pride and fun. And final placing.
>
>
> Yeah. Plus, it avoids making them travel to the host country to play two
> games only, even if the third won't take them anywhere in the cup (which
> otherwise would be the case for half of the field anyway).
>
> For a really crazy idea, you could get all 16 3rd placed teams and make
> them playoff until only one remains. Put a consolation cup on the line.
> Call it the "Silver World Cup" or "World Cup Serie B", or whatever :-)
> It's not like they'd be busy elsewhere in this period, right?

Sure, that could be an option .
>
>
>> Sure it adds one more game per team in the round robin stage for the
>> successful ones,
>
>
> But then, so would the Round of 32 predicted in FIFA's proposed formats.
>
>
>> but it avoids the whole best 3rd place scenario which
>> otherwise comes up. And also allows brackets to be fixed in advance
>> which is something FIFA seems to like for some reason.
>
>
> I think fixed brackets are a good idea for a month-long cup, since you don't
> have to schedule further draws between rounds. Plus, it allows for better
> planning, as teams will have an idea about where they'll have to travel to.
>
> For season-long cups, though, yeah, you can draw every round.
>
>
>> As I recall Jesus suggested the top 8 first placed teams would get a bye
>> in the KO round, with the other 4 playing off against 4 of the second
>> placed teams (and 4 games between second placed teams)
>
>
> Interesting proposals, yours and Jesus'.
>
>
> Best regards,
> Lléo