Fortuna Arena, Prague. Kickoff 8pm GMT, 9PM CET.

It's the 1960/61 European Cup Winners' Cup winners against the 1964/65 European Cup Winners' Cup and 1999 Intertoto Cup winners.

I know this competition is in its infancy but so far it's not delivering finals featuring the sort of third tier sides the tournament was supposed to benefit. Given their collective European experience and wealth (particularly considering West Ham sleep under the money tree that is the Premier League), these feel like two Europa League level teams to me. The odd thing is the two stadiums used for the finals so far have a distinct third tier feel to them - last year's venue the Air Albania Stadium in Tirana has a capacity of 22500 and tonight's venue holds 19370 - but something about the structure of the tournament seems to be preventing the third tier sides from getting through. Alas, my dreams of a HJK Helsinki v FK Sarajevo final will have to wait until another year.

Early reports are there has been trouble in Prague with Fiorentina fans allegedly attacking West Ham fans and dozens of arrests.

RM

On Wednesday, June 7, 2023 at 12:51:06 p.m. UTC-4, Real Mardin wrote:
> Fortuna Arena, Prague. Kickoff 8pm GMT, 9PM CET.
>
> It's the 1960/61 European Cup Winners' Cup winners against the 1964/65 European Cup Winners' Cup and 1999 Intertoto Cup winners.
>
> I know this competition is in its infancy but so far it's not delivering finals featuring the sort of third tier sides the tournament was supposed to benefit. Given their collective European experience and wealth (particularly considering West Ham sleep under the money tree that is the Premier League), these feel like two Europa League level teams to me. The odd thing is the two stadiums used for the finals so far have a distinct third tier feel to them - last year's venue the Air Albania Stadium in Tirana has a capacity of 22500 and tonight's venue holds 19370 - but something about the structure of the tournament seems to be preventing the third tier sides from getting through. Alas, my dreams of a HJK Helsinki v FK Sarajevo final will have to wait until another year.
>
> Early reports are there has been trouble in Prague with Fiorentina fans allegedly attacking West Ham fans and dozens of arrests.
>
> RM

the west ham fans seem to be the ones throwing stuff. Florence and the machine scored at the end of the half, but calledoffside. my feeling is thisends 0-0

On Wednesday, June 7, 2023 at 5:51:06 PM UTC+1, Real Mardin wrote:
> Fortuna Arena, Prague. Kickoff 8pm GMT, 9PM CET.
>
> It's the 1960/61 European Cup Winners' Cup winners against the 1964/65 European Cup Winners' Cup and 1999 Intertoto Cup winners.
>
> I know this competition is in its infancy but so far it's not delivering finals featuring the sort of third tier sides the tournament was supposed to benefit. Given their collective European experience and wealth (particularly considering West Ham sleep under the money tree that is the Premier League), these feel like two Europa League level teams to me. The odd thing is the two stadiums used for the finals so far have a distinct third tier feel to them - last year's venue the Air Albania Stadium in Tirana has a capacity of 22500 and tonight's venue holds 19370 - but something about the structure of the tournament seems to be preventing the third tier sides from getting through. Alas, my dreams of a HJK Helsinki v FK Sarajevo final will have to wait until another year.
>
> Early reports are there has been trouble in Prague with Fiorentina fans allegedly attacking West Ham fans and dozens of arrests.
>
> RM

Nothing much to report at half time, Fiorentina dominating possession but 0 shots on goal tells it's own story.

My first impression was the Fortuna Arena (capacity 19370) looks far too small to host a European final between two teams of this stature. Looking up the average attendance for each side backs that up - West Ham have an average crowd of around 62000 and Fiorentina about 30000.

I was just about to say how refreshing it is to see fans allowed to have a beer at their seat when apparently West Ham fans started throwing their cups at a Fiorentina player they thought was play acting, oh dear.

RM

Real Mardin wrote:

>
> Nothing much to report at half time, Fiorentina dominating possession
> but 0 shots on goal tells it's own story.

This is one dull game with two average teams.

On Wednesday, June 7, 2023 at 8:57:26 PM UTC+1, Binder Dundat wrote:
> On Wednesday, June 7, 2023 at 12:51:06 p.m. UTC-4, Real Mardin wrote:
> > Fortuna Arena, Prague. Kickoff 8pm GMT, 9PM CET.
> >
> > It's the 1960/61 European Cup Winners' Cup winners against the 1964/65 European Cup Winners' Cup and 1999 Intertoto Cup winners.
> >
> > I know this competition is in its infancy but so far it's not delivering finals featuring the sort of third tier sides the tournament was supposed to benefit. Given their collective European experience and wealth (particularly considering West Ham sleep under the money tree that is the Premier League), these feel like two Europa League level teams to me. The odd thing is the two stadiums used for the finals so far have a distinct third tier feel to them - last year's venue the Air Albania Stadium in Tirana has a capacity of 22500 and tonight's venue holds 19370 - but something about the structure of the tournament seems to be preventing the third tier sides from getting through. Alas, my dreams of a HJK Helsinki v FK Sarajevo final will have to wait until another year.
> >
> > Early reports are there has been trouble in Prague with Fiorentina fans allegedly attacking West Ham fans and dozens of arrests.
> >
> > RM
> the west ham fans seem to be the ones throwing stuff. Florence and the machine scored at the end of the half, but calledoffside. my feeling is thisends 0-0

Two different incidents - reportedly Fiorentina fans attacked West Ham fan in the city centre. I've just seen a slow motion replay of West Ham fans throwing beer cups at Fiorentina's Biraghi, cutting him on the back of the head with the blood flowing down barbed wire match style. Not nice and in this day and age of CCTV you'd like to think the perpetrators will be identified, prosecuted and hopefully banned from attending future matches.

RM

On 2023-06-07 10:51, Real Mardin wrote:
> Fortuna Arena, Prague. Kickoff 8pm GMT, 9PM CET.
>
> It's the 1960/61 European Cup Winners' Cup winners against the 1964/65 European Cup Winners' Cup and 1999 Intertoto Cup winners.
>
> I know this competition is in its infancy but so far it's not delivering finals featuring the sort of third tier sides the tournament was supposed to benefit. Given their collective European experience and wealth (particularly considering West Ham sleep under the money tree that is the Premier League), these feel like two Europa League level teams to me. The odd thing is the two stadiums used for the finals so far have a distinct third tier feel to them - last year's venue the Air Albania Stadium in Tirana has a capacity of 22500 and tonight's venue holds 19370 - but something about the structure of the tournament seems to be preventing the third tier sides from getting through. Alas, my dreams of a HJK Helsinki v FK Sarajevo final will have to wait until another year.
>
> Early reports are there has been trouble in Prague with Fiorentina fans allegedly attacking West Ham fans and dozens of arrests.
>
> RM

Bit of an ill tempered match so far. Fiorentina players flopping all
over the place early on, with very little contact. West Ham players let
that and the fact they were being outplayed get under their skin and
they have been pretty poor so far. Lots of gesticulation and a few bad
tempered challenges.

Fans have been misbehaving at the West Ham end. Throwing plastic glasses
at players taking corners. Resulted in cut to Biraghi ? who was
bleeding profusely from the back of his head. I wonder will that result
in the match being replayed if West Ham win (unlikely as that seems at
this stage). There is precedent - Celtic- Austria Wien in the mid 80s
for instance. Also Real Madrid Inter the same year. Funnily enough the
decisions were different in the two cases.

On 2023-06-07 10:51, Real Mardin wrote:
> Fortuna Arena, Prague. Kickoff 8pm GMT, 9PM CET.
>
> It's the 1960/61 European Cup Winners' Cup winners against the 1964/65 European Cup Winners' Cup and 1999 Intertoto Cup winners.
>
> I know this competition is in its infancy but so far it's not delivering finals featuring the sort of third tier sides

Might be a bit unkind but these ARE third tier sides. West Ham was in
relegation trouble most of the season, and will not qualify for Europe
next year unless they win this one. Fiorentina one place below
qualification for ECL next year as well.

the tournament was supposed to benefit. Given their collective European
experience and wealth (particularly considering West Ham sleep under the
money tree that is the Premier League), these feel like two Europa
League level teams to me. The odd thing is the two stadiums used for the
finals so far have a distinct third tier feel to them - last year's
venue the Air Albania Stadium in Tirana has a capacity of 22500 and
tonight's venue holds 19370 - but something about the structure of the
tournament seems to be preventing the third tier sides from getting
through. Alas, my dreams of a HJK Helsinki v FK Sarajevo final will have
to wait until another year.
>
> Early reports are there has been trouble in Prague with Fiorentina fans allegedly attacking West Ham fans and dozens of arrests.
>
> RM

62 minutes - West Ham take the lead with a VAR handball penalty smashed away by Benrahma. The sort of decision I can't understand - accidental handball by Biraghi as he ran to chase a loose ball - I know "accidental" isn't part of the test anymore but the body being in an unnatural position is. In the context of the player running toward the ball, an outstretched arm is surely a natural body position?

RM

67 minutes - Fiorentina equalise, long ball into the box headed down to Bonaventura, he controlled the ball before hitting a low diagonal shot through a crowd of players to beat the keeper.

In light of West Ham's ridiculous VAR handall penalty even as a neutral it's hard not to be pleased with Fiorentina equalising.

RM

On Wednesday, June 7, 2023 at 9:34:14 PM UTC+1, Real Mardin wrote:
> 67 minutes - Fiorentina equalise, long ball into the box headed down to Bonaventura, he controlled the ball before hitting a low diagonal shot through a crowd of players to beat the keeper.
>
> In light of West Ham's ridiculous VAR handall penalty even as a neutral it's hard not to be pleased with Fiorentina equalising.
>
>
> RM

79 minutes, the match is opening up now with chances at both ends. This could really go either way.

RM

On Wednesday, June 7, 2023 at 9:43:19 PM UTC+1, Real Mardin wrote:
> On Wednesday, June 7, 2023 at 9:34:14 PM UTC+1, Real Mardin wrote:
> > 67 minutes - Fiorentina equalise, long ball into the box headed down to Bonaventura, he controlled the ball before hitting a low diagonal shot through a crowd of players to beat the keeper.
> >
> > In light of West Ham's ridiculous VAR handall penalty even as a neutral it's hard not to be pleased with Fiorentina equalising.
> >
> >
> > RM
> 79 minutes, the match is opening up now with chances at both ends. This could really go either way.
>
> RM

90 minutes - just as thoughts were turning to extra time, Paqueta releases Bowen with a through ball, he was put through clear on goal and whilst some distance away outpaced everyone else to get close enough to shoot and put West Ham 2-1 up.

A good goal but in the context of West Ham's VAR handball penalty this doesn't feel like justice.

RM

Real Mardin wrote:
>
> A good goal but in the context of West Ham's VAR handball penalty
> this doesn't feel like justice.

Second half was better than the first... but that's not saying much.

I hope the 'proper' European Final on Saturday is a lot better.

FT: Fiorentina 1 - West Ham 2

West Ham win their first European trophy since 1965 and their first major trophy since the 1980 FA Cup.

Serie A now 0 for 2 in this year's European finals, can Inter restore some pride on Saturday?

Football has got to get on top of the handball rule - accidental handballs should not be producing penalties, particularly not ones that make the difference in a European final. Gary Lineker said on Match of the Day a few days ago that he had heard the accidental handball rule is coming back in the near future, I sincerely hope he's right.

RM

On 2023-06-07 14:57, Real Mardin wrote:
> On Wednesday, June 7, 2023 at 9:43:19 PM UTC+1, Real Mardin wrote:
>> On Wednesday, June 7, 2023 at 9:34:14 PM UTC+1, Real Mardin wrote:
>>> 67 minutes - Fiorentina equalise, long ball into the box headed down to Bonaventura, he controlled the ball before hitting a low diagonal shot through a crowd of players to beat the keeper.
>>>
>>> In light of West Ham's ridiculous VAR handall penalty even as a neutral it's hard not to be pleased with Fiorentina equalising.
>>>
>>>
>>> RM
>> 79 minutes, the match is opening up now with chances at both ends. This could really go either way.
>>
>> RM
>
> 90 minutes - just as thoughts were turning to extra time, Paqueta releases Bowen with a through ball, he was put through clear on goal and whilst some distance away outpaced everyone else to get close enough to shoot and put West Ham 2-1 up.
>
> A good goal but in the context of West Ham's VAR handball penalty

In the context of how handball is assessed these days (which I think is
a terrible idea), that was not a particularly harsh decision. I would
say I have seen dozens, including the one against Grealish in the FA cup
final, that were less obvious. the motion of Biraghi's hand , whether
intentional or not,directed the ball away from Bowen and gave a clear
advantage to Fiorentina.

SO, any bets on whether this one is ordered to be replayed ? Or West
Ham banned from Europe because of fan behaviour ?

this doesn't feel like justice.
>
> RM

On Wednesday, June 7, 2023 at 10:10:24 PM UTC+1, MH wrote:
> On 2023-06-07 14:57, Real Mardin wrote:
> > On Wednesday, June 7, 2023 at 9:43:19 PM UTC+1, Real Mardin wrote:
> >> On Wednesday, June 7, 2023 at 9:34:14 PM UTC+1, Real Mardin wrote:
> >>> 67 minutes - Fiorentina equalise, long ball into the box headed down to Bonaventura, he controlled the ball before hitting a low diagonal shot through a crowd of players to beat the keeper.
> >>>
> >>> In light of West Ham's ridiculous VAR handall penalty even as a neutral it's hard not to be pleased with Fiorentina equalising.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> RM
> >> 79 minutes, the match is opening up now with chances at both ends. This could really go either way.
> >>
> >> RM
> >
> > 90 minutes - just as thoughts were turning to extra time, Paqueta releases Bowen with a through ball, he was put through clear on goal and whilst some distance away outpaced everyone else to get close enough to shoot and put West Ham 2-1 up.
> >
> > A good goal but in the context of West Ham's VAR handball penalty
> In the context of how handball is assessed these days (which I think is
> a terrible idea), that was not a particularly harsh decision. I would
> say I have seen dozens, including the one against Grealish in the FA cup
> final, that were less obvious. the motion of Biraghi's hand , whether
> intentional or not,directed the ball away from Bowen and gave a clear
> advantage to Fiorentina.
>
> SO, any bets on whether this one is ordered to be replayed ? Or West
> Ham banned from Europe because of fan behaviour ?

Though I do agree Fiorentina were unfairly impacted, I don't think UEFA would order a replay in this day and age - they'll just say there isn't enough time to find another free stadium or that it would negatively impact both club's preparations for next season (bearing in mind we have Euro 2024 qualifiers coming up which will reduce the number of free match days).

Neither do I think West Ham will be banned, UEFA need them to take their place in the Europa League next season to give their new competition legitimacy.

Realistically I think the most justice we can expect is for West Ham to play their first couple of Europa League home games next season behind closed doors.

RM

On Wednesday, June 7, 2023 at 5:10:24 p.m. UTC-4, MH wrote:
> On 2023-06-07 14:57, Real Mardin wrote:
> > On Wednesday, June 7, 2023 at 9:43:19 PM UTC+1, Real Mardin wrote:
> >> On Wednesday, June 7, 2023 at 9:34:14 PM UTC+1, Real Mardin wrote:
> >>> 67 minutes - Fiorentina equalise, long ball into the box headed down to Bonaventura, he controlled the ball before hitting a low diagonal shot through a crowd of players to beat the keeper.
> >>>
> >>> In light of West Ham's ridiculous VAR handall penalty even as a neutral it's hard not to be pleased with Fiorentina equalising.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> RM
> >> 79 minutes, the match is opening up now with chances at both ends. This could really go either way.
> >>
> >> RM
> >
> > 90 minutes - just as thoughts were turning to extra time, Paqueta releases Bowen with a through ball, he was put through clear on goal and whilst some distance away outpaced everyone else to get close enough to shoot and put West Ham 2-1 up.
> >
> > A good goal but in the context of West Ham's VAR handball penalty
> In the context of how handball is assessed these days (which I think is
> a terrible idea), that was not a particularly harsh decision. I would
> say I have seen dozens, including the one against Grealish in the FA cup
> final, that were less obvious. the motion of Biraghi's hand , whether
> intentional or not,directed the ball away from Bowen and gave a clear
> advantage to Fiorentina.
>
> SO, any bets on whether this one is ordered to be replayed ? Or West
> Ham banned from Europe because of fan behaviour ?
> this doesn't feel like justice.
> >
> > RM

yeah, in the world of terrible hand ball penals, this one was not so badand almost understandable. i really doubt they do anything ab/out the westham fan behaviour

MH wrote:
>
> In the context of how handball is assessed these days (which I think
> is a terrible idea), that was not a particularly harsh decision. I
> would say I have seen dozens, including the one against Grealish in
> the FA cup final, that were less obvious. the motion of Biraghi's
> hand , whether intentional or not,directed the ball away from Bowen
> and gave a clear advantage to Fiorentina.
>
> SO, any bets on whether this one is ordered to be replayed ? Or
> West Ham banned from Europe because of fan behaviour ?

It won't be replayed but West Ham will almost certainly get fined for
their fans behaviour.

West Ham were probably the better team on the night, so I don't see the
result as unfair.

Yeah, the VAR call was right by the law as it stands, the hand clearly
moved the ball... but that law around unintentional hand ball isn't
really fair and it needs to be changed.

On Wednesday, June 7, 2023 at 11:28:12 PM UTC+2, Blueshirt wrote:
> MH wrote:
> >
> > In the context of how handball is assessed these days (which I think
> > is a terrible idea), that was not a particularly harsh decision. I
> > would say I have seen dozens, including the one against Grealish in
> > the FA cup final, that were less obvious. the motion of Biraghi's
> > hand , whether intentional or not,directed the ball away from Bowen
> > and gave a clear advantage to Fiorentina.
> >
> > SO, any bets on whether this one is ordered to be replayed ? Or
> > West Ham banned from Europe because of fan behaviour ?

Not a chance. A fine, that's it.

> It won't be replayed but West Ham will almost certainly get fined for
> their fans behaviour.
>
> West Ham were probably the better team on the night, so I don't see the
> result as unfair.
>
> Yeah, the VAR call was right by the law as it stands, the hand clearly
> moved the ball... but that law around unintentional hand ball isn't
> really fair and it needs to be changed.

I have absolutely no qualms regarding the penalty. The ball was in front of Biraghi and
if he hadn't punched it out of the air it would have fallen straight onto Bowen's foot.

It's Biraghi's job as a professional defender to know where the ball is and where his hands
are, not the referee's job to read Biraghi's mind to see whether he handled it unintentionally.

Ciao,
Werner

On Wednesday, June 7, 2023 at 6:51:06 PM UTC+2, Real Mardin wrote:
> Fortuna Arena, Prague. Kickoff 8pm GMT, 9PM CET.
>
> It's the 1960/61 European Cup Winners' Cup winners against the 1964/65 European Cup Winners' Cup and 1999 Intertoto Cup winners.
>
> I know this competition is in its infancy but so far it's not delivering finals featuring the sort of third tier sides the tournament was supposed to benefit. Given their collective European experience and wealth
> (particularly considering West Ham sleep under the money tree that is the Premier League), these feel like two Europa League level teams to me. The odd thing is the two stadiums used for the finals so far have a
> distinct third tier feel to them - last year's venue the Air Albania Stadium in Tirana has a capacity of 22500 and tonight's venue holds 19370

The idea was to give European finals to countries that otherwise couldn't have them. Both stadia are the biggest in their respective countries
(a fact that's a bit shocking regarding the Czech Republic).

But I think UEFA underestimated the appeal of their own competition and now see that by choosing these small venues they leave money on the table,
so I'm quite certain that from next year onwards final attendances of 20,000 will be a thing of the past.

Ciao,
Werner

> - but something about the structure of the tournament seems to be
> preventing the third tier sides from getting through. Alas, my dreams of a HJK Helsinki v FK Sarajevo final will have to wait until another year.
>
> Early reports are there has been trouble in Prague with Fiorentina fans allegedly attacking West Ham fans and dozens of arrests.
>
> RM

On Wednesday, June 7, 2023 at 11:09:19 PM UTC+2, Real Mardin wrote:
> FT: Fiorentina 1 - West Ham 2
>
> West Ham win their first European trophy since 1965 and their first major trophy since the 1980 FA Cup.
>
> Serie A now 0 for 2 in this year's European finals, can Inter restore some pride on Saturday?

Emerson Palmieri has now won five different UEFA competitions - Champions League,
Europa League and Super Cup with Chelsea, Conference League with West Ham, and
EURO with Italy.

He's missing the Nations League though.

Ciao,
Werner

On Wednesday, June 7, 2023 at 10:49:27 PM UTC+1, Werner Pichler wrote:
> On Wednesday, June 7, 2023 at 11:28:12 PM UTC+2, Blueshirt wrote:
> > MH wrote:
> > >
> > > In the context of how handball is assessed these days (which I think
> > > is a terrible idea), that was not a particularly harsh decision. I
> > > would say I have seen dozens, including the one against Grealish in
> > > the FA cup final, that were less obvious. the motion of Biraghi's
> > > hand , whether intentional or not,directed the ball away from Bowen
> > > and gave a clear advantage to Fiorentina.
> > >
> > > SO, any bets on whether this one is ordered to be replayed ? Or
> > > West Ham banned from Europe because of fan behaviour ?
> Not a chance. A fine, that's it.
> > It won't be replayed but West Ham will almost certainly get fined for
> > their fans behaviour.
> >
> > West Ham were probably the better team on the night, so I don't see the
> > result as unfair.
> >
> > Yeah, the VAR call was right by the law as it stands, the hand clearly
> > moved the ball... but that law around unintentional hand ball isn't
> > really fair and it needs to be changed.
> I have absolutely no qualms regarding the penalty. The ball was in front of Biraghi and
> if he hadn't punched it out of the air....

He didn't "punch" the ball, his hand and the ball collided as he ran toward it. Obviously as a defender he has to run toward the ball, that's his job.

> It's Biraghi's job as a professional defender to know where the ball is and where his hands
> are, not the referee's job to read Biraghi's mind to see whether he handled it unintentionally.

No, but the referee is supposed to make a determination as to whether Biraghi's body was in an unnatural position and at the risk of sounding like a broken record in the context of a player running I don't see how you can say his body was in an unnatural position.

We can agree to disagree about the decision, but I hope we can all agree the current handball rules are nonsense and need reforming.

RM

Werner Pichler wrote:

> On Wednesday, June 7, 2023 at 11:09:19 PM UTC+2, Real Mardin wrote:
> > FT: Fiorentina 1 - West Ham 2
> >
> > West Ham win their first European trophy since 1965 and their first
> > major trophy since the 1980 FA Cup.
> >
> > Serie A now 0 for 2 in this year's European finals, can Inter
> > restore some pride on Saturday?
>
> Emerson Palmieri has now won five different UEFA competitions -
> Champions League, Europa League and Super Cup with Chelsea,
> Conference League with West Ham, and EURO with Italy.
>
> He's missing the Nations League though.

You read Fabrizio Romano's tweet too, eh? :-)

Real Mardin wrote:
>
> We can agree to disagree about the decision, but I hope we can all
> agree the current handball rules are nonsense and need reforming.

Rumours are that it will be 'amended' for next season, but we'll have
to wait and see.

On Thursday, June 8, 2023 at 12:02:16 AM UTC+2, Real Mardin wrote:
> On Wednesday, June 7, 2023 at 10:49:27 PM UTC+1, Werner Pichler wrote:
> > On Wednesday, June 7, 2023 at 11:28:12 PM UTC+2, Blueshirt wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Yeah, the VAR call was right by the law as it stands, the hand clearly
> > > moved the ball... but that law around unintentional hand ball isn't
> > > really fair and it needs to be changed.
> >
> > I have absolutely no qualms regarding the penalty. The ball was in front of Biraghi and
> > if he hadn't punched it out of the air....
>
> He didn't "punch" the ball, his hand and the ball collided as he ran toward it.

Which had what effect on the ball? Something like being punched?

> Obviously as a defender he has to run toward the ball, that's his job.
>
> > It's Biraghi's job as a professional defender to know where the ball is and where his hands
> > are, not the referee's job to read Biraghi's mind to see whether he handled it unintentionally.
>
> No, but the referee is supposed to make a determination as to whether Biraghi's body was in an unnatural position and at the risk of sounding like a broken record
> in the context of a player running I don't see how you can say his body was in an unnatural position.
>
> We can agree to disagree about the decision, but I hope we can all agree the current handball rules are nonsense and need reforming.

What reforms would you suggest?

I can tell you what I don't want to see - players flailing their arms around willy-nilly, safe in the knowledge they'll have plausible
deniability if they can claim that they didn't aim for the ball - e.g. on occasion of a free-kick a player in the wall facing away from the ball,
but raising his arms as high as he can.

So how would you phrase a handball rule that encompasses that? Ideally without recurring to 'intent' and so necessitating mind-reading
powers on part of the referees? And we all know if there's a loophole in the rules, savvy players will find it.

My suggestion that I've already repeated a couple of times here would be to punish *all* handballs where the ball has travelled
more than 9.15m/10 yards (distance between free-kick location and wall), before hitting an arm - something that VAR could determine -
which should leave enough time for any defender to get his extremities out of the way, and punish only the most egregious
cases when the distance is less. But that's just a first thought.

Ciao,
Werner

On 2023-06-07 15:09, Real Mardin wrote:
> FT: Fiorentina 1 - West Ham 2
>
> West Ham win their first European trophy since 1965 and their first major trophy since the 1980 FA Cup.

I was thinking this was Moyes's first trophy, but I suppose some would
count the Community Shield (does not fit my definition of a major
trophy), and he did win a Scottish Premier League (or maybe called First
division or premier divsion back then) as a player.
Also won Division 3 as a player and Division 2 as manager with Preston.

Don't know if West Ham want to keep him after a disappointing season in
the league. Perhaps Celtic would want him to replace Postecoglu, who is
going to Spurs from what I read.

>
> Serie A now 0 for 2 in this year's European finals, can Inter restore some pride on Saturday?
>
> Football has got to get on top of the handball rule - accidental handballs should not be producing penalties, particularly not ones that make the difference in a European final. Gary Lineker said on Match of the Day a few days ago that he had heard the accidental handball rule is coming back in the near future, I sincerely hope he's right.
>
> RM