If Independiente are the most successful football club in Argentina, I've got a horrible feeling we're going to lose that title tonight. :-(

Mark escreveu:
> If Independiente are the most successful football club in Argentina,

You mean, "the one who won most Copa Libertadores". Domestically, River, Boca
and Racing have more won more Argentinian championships than el Rojo.

> I've got a horrible feeling we're going to lose that title tonight. :-(

Well, you didn't.

From Maracanã, Rio de Janeiro:

Boca Juniors 1-2 Fluminense

36' Cano (0-1)
72' Advincula (1-1)
99' John Kennedy (1-2)

Fluminense wins their first ever Copa Libertadores. They are the 11th club
from Brasil to win it, raising the country total to 23 (two short of Argentina's
25 trophies, from 8 clubs).

Best regards,

Lléo

On Sunday, November 5, 2023 at 12:58:15 AM UTC, Lléo wrote:
> Mark escreveu:
> > If Independiente are the most successful football club in Argentina,
> You mean, "the one who won most Copa Libertadores". Domestically, River, Boca
> and Racing have more won more Argentinian championships than el Rojo.

Well, I'm taking into consideration all international titles and domestic titles. I think it would take a lot of Argentinian Championships to equal 1 Championship of South America though.

> > I've got a horrible feeling we're going to lose that title tonight. :-(
> Well, you didn't.
>
> From Maracanã, Rio de Janeiro:
>
> Boca Juniors 1-2 Fluminense
>
> 36' Cano (0-1)
> 72' Advincula (1-1)
> 99' John Kennedy (1-2)
>
> Fluminense wins their first ever Copa Libertadores. They are the 11th club
> from Brasil to win it, raising the country total to 23 (two short of Argentina's
> 25 trophies, from 8 clubs).
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Lléo

Yay! I thought Fluminense were the slightly better team in the 90 minutes, and was feeling more confident going into extra time. They probably deserved it.

Independiente are still Argentina's most successful football club. When are we going to win the Copa Libertadores again though and make our title safe? River Plate recovered from relegation to win the Copa Libertadores within about 5 years; we've won the Copa Sudamericana since we got relegated; we've never looked anywhere near being contenders for the Copa Libertadores since then though. :-(

Mark escreveu:
> On Sunday, November 5, 2023 at 12:58:15 AM UTC, Lléo wrote:
> > Mark escreveu:
> > > I've got a horrible feeling we're going to lose that title tonight. :-(
> > Well, you didn't.
> >
> > From Maracanã, Rio de Janeiro:
> >
> > Boca Juniors 1-2 Fluminense
> >
> > 36' Cano (0-1)
> > 72' Advincula (1-1)
> > 99' John Kennedy (1-2)
> >
> > Fluminense wins their first ever Copa Libertadores. They are the 11th club
> > from Brasil to win it, raising the country total to 23 (two short of Argentina's
> > 25 trophies, from 8 clubs).
>
> Yay! I thought Fluminense were the slightly better team in the 90 minutes, and
> was feeling more confident going into extra time. They probably deserved it.

They did. They were the better side, both on the day and over the tournament,
though Boca played with a lot of heart and largely bridged the technical gap
between the two sides, both of which had a similar amount of shots on target
and goalscoring opportunities.

Fluminense's title goalscorer, John Kennedy, was sent off for celebrating out
of the pitch, with the fans (more accurately, it was a second yellow card). I
know it's on the rules and, as such, one cannot really complain about it being
enforced, but still, what a very dumb rule. Boca seemed then to have a lifeline,
but Fabbra decided to return the favor just six minutes later. There was this
little brawl in Fluminense's penalty area, in which one could conceivably call
a penalty for Boca, on what seemed to be a handball by a Fluminense player. In
the middle of the crowd, Fabbra slightly touched Nino's face (to call that a
"slap" is a way lot too much IMHO), who dropped like a sack of bricks. Upon
VAR review, it became 10 vs 10 again.

On the second half of extra time, Boca threw all it could and then more. But
Fluminense held on, and indeed almost found a third goal on a counter attack.
But it wasn't to be for the Xeneizes. Too bad, I was rooting for them, but to
be fair, on the field of play Fluminense has indeed earned this one.

Botafogo is now the last "big" Brazilian team to have never won Copa Libertadores,
though they do have an international trophy in their case, Copa Conmebol 1993,
which was what we nowadays call Copa Sudamericana. Fluminense didn't have even
that, having previously lost both the Libertadores 2008 and the Sudamericana
2009 finals to the same opponent, LDU Quito, who will be Fluminense's opponent
in next season's Recopa, since they won Copa Sudamericana this season. Having
exorcised one of their ghosts, that of the lack of international cups, now the
tricolores have the opportunity to lay the other one to rest once and for all.

> Independiente are still Argentina's most successful football club. When are
> we going to win the Copa Libertadores again though and make our title safe?
> River Plate recovered from relegation to win the Copa Libertadores within
> about 5 years; we've won the Copa Sudamericana since we got relegated; we've
> never looked anywhere near being contenders for the Copa Libertadores since
> then though. :-(

Given the current financial gap between Brazilian football and the rest of the
continent's, it indeed won't be easy for Independiente, who also seem to be in
financial trouble themselves at this moment. At least they kept their both of
their bragging rights: being record Libertadores winners and being the only club
from Argentina to ever lift a trophy at Maracanã (twice: Supercopa 1995 and Copa
Sudamericana 2017, both times beating the same opponent :-))

Best regards,

Lléo