Four rounds to go

1 Palmeiras 62
2 Botafogo 61
3 Flamengo 60
4 Grêmio 59
5 Bragantino 59
6 Atlético Mineiro 59

Rather the exciting run-in. Wasn't Botafogo like ten points clear at some
point? They're currently on a seven-game winless streak. Red Bull Bragantino
just blew a chance to go joint top by losing 1-0 at Flamengo.

And near the bottom three (or four) heavyweights are being chased by one
team in the drop zone:

13 Internacional 43
14 Santos 42 (never been relegated)
15 Vasco 41
16 Cruzeiro 41
-----------
17 Bahia 38

Both Santos and Vasco have had good runs recently, six and five games
unbeaten respectively.

Ciao,
Werner

On Friday, 24 November 2023 at 12:19:16 UTC+1, Werner Pichler wrote:
> Four rounds to go
>
> 1 Palmeiras 62
> 2 Botafogo 61
> 3 Flamengo 60
> 4 Grêmio 59
> 5 Bragantino 59
> 6 Atlético Mineiro 59
>
> Rather the exciting run-in. Wasn't Botafogo like ten points clear at some
> point? They're currently on a seven-game winless streak.

I think they had 13 points, but not sure if there was some played-more-games trickery involved.

But weren't they also relegated a few years ago?

Em sexta-feira, 24 de novembro de 2023 às 08:19:16 UTC-3, Werner Pichler escreveu:
> Four rounds to go
>
> 1 Palmeiras 62
> 2 Botafogo 61
> 3 Flamengo 60
> 4 Grêmio 59
> 5 Bragantino 59
> 6 Atlético Mineiro 59

Atlético are on 57, actually.

> Rather the exciting run-in. Wasn't Botafogo like ten points clear at some
> point? They're currently on a seven-game winless streak. Red Bull Bragantino
> just blew a chance to go joint top by losing 1-0 at Flamengo.
>
>
> And near the bottom three (or four) heavyweights are being chased by one
> team in the drop zone:
>
> 13 Internacional 43
> 14 Santos 42 (never been relegated)
> 15 Vasco 41
> 16 Cruzeiro 41
> -----------
> 17 Bahia 38
>
> Both Santos and Vasco have had good runs recently, six and five games
> unbeaten respectively.

All four should be safe with one more win (and maybe one extra draw in Vasco and Cruzeiro's cases).

Tchau!
Jesus Petry

Em sexta-feira, 24 de novembro de 2023 às 09:00:26 UTC-3, Jesper Lauridsen escreveu:
> On Friday, 24 November 2023 at 12:19:16 UTC+1, Werner Pichler wrote:
> > Four rounds to go
> >
> > 1 Palmeiras 62
> > 2 Botafogo 61
> > 3 Flamengo 60
> > 4 Grêmio 59
> > 5 Bragantino 59
> > 6 Atlético Mineiro 59
> >
> > Rather the exciting run-in. Wasn't Botafogo like ten points clear at some
> > point? They're currently on a seven-game winless streak.
> I think they had 13 points, but not sure if there was some played-more-games trickery involved.
>
> But weren't they also relegated a few years ago?

Yes, they had just come back from Série B in 2022, while Grêmio, Vasco and Cruzeiro returned this year.

Tchau!
Jesus "there are too many relegation spots in our league" Petry

Jesper Lauridsen escreveu:
> On Friday, 24 November 2023 at 12:19:16 UTC+1, Werner Pichler wrote:
> > Four rounds to go
> >
> > 1 Palmeiras 62
> > 2 Botafogo 61
> > 3 Flamengo 60
> > 4 Grêmio 59
> > 5 Bragantino 59
> > 6 Atlético Mineiro 59
> >
> > Rather the exciting run-in. Wasn't Botafogo like ten points clear at some
> > point? They're currently on a seven-game winless streak.
>
> I think they had 13 points, but not sure if there was some played-more-games
> trickery involved.

No, they indeed finished the first half of the league 13 points ahead of
Palmeiras and Grêmio. They earned 47 points out of 57 possible, which I
think is a record for the first half of the league.

Of course, in the return fixtures thus far it's 14 out of 45, only better
than Goiás and América (one in relegation trouble, the other already
gone down).

> But weren't they also relegated a few years ago?

Yes, in 2020. Returned as champions in 2021. They struggled a bit upon
returning to Serie A in 2022, but found their way towards a midtable
finish.

They did rather poorly in the state championship this season, having been
the only one of the big four of Rio not to make the semifinals. Absolutely
no one expected them to soar like they did in the first half of the league.

And a lot of people thought not even them could blow a lead like that, yet
here they are. They blew 3-0 and 3-1 home leads against Palmeiras and Grêmio,
turning both into 3-4 losses. They were beating RB Bragantino away, but
conceded an injury time equalizer. All that in this month of November 2023,
which should give you a measure of the meltdown.

Of course the title is still within their reach, and their next four games
are against teams in the bottom half of the table: Santos (home), Coritiba
(away, but most likely already relegated by then), Cruzeiro (home) and
Internacional (away, but with them keeping an eye on whether Grêmio is still
in the title hunt or not). It is then a matter of getting their heads checked
and learning from all the mistakes they made in the last couple of months.

Best regards,

Lléo

On Friday, November 24, 2023 at 8:32:21 PM UTC, Lléo wrote:
> Jesper Lauridsen escreveu:
> > On Friday, 24 November 2023 at 12:19:16 UTC+1, Werner Pichler wrote:
> > > Four rounds to go
> > >
> > > 1 Palmeiras 62
> > > 2 Botafogo 61
> > > 3 Flamengo 60
> > > 4 Grêmio 59
> > > 5 Bragantino 59
> > > 6 Atlético Mineiro 59
> > >
> > > Rather the exciting run-in. Wasn't Botafogo like ten points clear at some
> > > point? They're currently on a seven-game winless streak.
> >
> > I think they had 13 points, but not sure if there was some played-more-games
> > trickery involved.
> No, they indeed finished the first half of the league 13 points ahead of
> Palmeiras and Grêmio. They earned 47 points out of 57 possible, which I
> think is a record for the first half of the league.
>
> Of course, in the return fixtures thus far it's 14 out of 45, only better
> than Goiás and América (one in relegation trouble, the other already
> gone down).
> > But weren't they also relegated a few years ago?
> Yes, in 2020. Returned as champions in 2021. They struggled a bit upon
> returning to Serie A in 2022, but found their way towards a midtable
> finish.
>
> They did rather poorly in the state championship this season, having been
> the only one of the big four of Rio not to make the semifinals. Absolutely
> no one expected them to soar like they did in the first half of the league.
>
> And a lot of people thought not even them could blow a lead like that, yet
> here they are. They blew 3-0 and 3-1 home leads against Palmeiras and Grêmio,
> turning both into 3-4 losses. They were beating RB Bragantino away, but
> conceded an injury time equalizer. All that in this month of November 2023,
> which should give you a measure of the meltdown.
>
> Of course the title is still within their reach, and their next four games
> are against teams in the bottom half of the table: Santos (home), Coritiba
> (away, but most likely already relegated by then), Cruzeiro (home) and
> Internacional (away, but with them keeping an eye on whether Grêmio is still
> in the title hunt or not). It is then a matter of getting their heads checked
> and learning from all the mistakes they made in the last couple of months..
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Lléo

I tried to watch Botafogo v Santos tonight, but I couldn't get the picture to go full screen, so I didn't bother.

Anyway yes it's an interesting run-in. I didn't realize Botafogo had done that badly in the 2nd half of the season.

On Sunday, November 26, 2023 at 9:12:55 PM UTC, Mark wrote:
> On Friday, November 24, 2023 at 8:32:21 PM UTC, Lléo wrote:
> > Jesper Lauridsen escreveu:
> > > On Friday, 24 November 2023 at 12:19:16 UTC+1, Werner Pichler wrote:
> > > > Four rounds to go
> > > >
> > > > 1 Palmeiras 62
> > > > 2 Botafogo 61
> > > > 3 Flamengo 60
> > > > 4 Grêmio 59
> > > > 5 Bragantino 59
> > > > 6 Atlético Mineiro 59
> > > >
> > > > Rather the exciting run-in. Wasn't Botafogo like ten points clear at some
> > > > point? They're currently on a seven-game winless streak.
> > >
> > > I think they had 13 points, but not sure if there was some played-more-games
> > > trickery involved.
> > No, they indeed finished the first half of the league 13 points ahead of
> > Palmeiras and Grêmio. They earned 47 points out of 57 possible, which I
> > think is a record for the first half of the league.
> >
> > Of course, in the return fixtures thus far it's 14 out of 45, only better
> > than Goiás and América (one in relegation trouble, the other already
> > gone down).
> > > But weren't they also relegated a few years ago?
> > Yes, in 2020. Returned as champions in 2021. They struggled a bit upon
> > returning to Serie A in 2022, but found their way towards a midtable
> > finish.
> >
> > They did rather poorly in the state championship this season, having been
> > the only one of the big four of Rio not to make the semifinals. Absolutely
> > no one expected them to soar like they did in the first half of the league.
> >
> > And a lot of people thought not even them could blow a lead like that, yet
> > here they are. They blew 3-0 and 3-1 home leads against Palmeiras and Grêmio,
> > turning both into 3-4 losses. They were beating RB Bragantino away, but
> > conceded an injury time equalizer. All that in this month of November 2023,
> > which should give you a measure of the meltdown.
> >
> > Of course the title is still within their reach, and their next four games
> > are against teams in the bottom half of the table: Santos (home), Coritiba
> > (away, but most likely already relegated by then), Cruzeiro (home) and
> > Internacional (away, but with them keeping an eye on whether Grêmio is still
> > in the title hunt or not). It is then a matter of getting their heads checked
> > and learning from all the mistakes they made in the last couple of months.
> >
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Lléo
> I tried to watch Botafogo v Santos tonight, but I couldn't get the picture to go full screen, so I didn't bother.
>
> Anyway yes it's an interesting run-in. I didn't realize Botafogo had done that badly in the 2nd half of the season.

Apparently Botafogo took an early lead against Santos and sat on the lead, but ended up conceding an 89th minute equalizer and drew 1-1. Is that 8 League matches without defeat now? Atletico Mineiro beat Gremio, and are playing Flamengo midweek.

Em sexta-feira, 24 de novembro de 2023 às 14:41:39 UTC-3, Jesus Petry escreveu:
> Em sexta-feira, 24 de novembro de 2023 às 08:19:16 UTC-3, Werner Pichler escreveu:
> > Four rounds to go
> >
> > 1 Palmeiras 62
> > 2 Botafogo 61
> > 3 Flamengo 60
> > 4 Grêmio 59
> > 5 Bragantino 59
> > 6 Atlético Mineiro 59
> Atlético are on 57, actually.
> > Rather the exciting run-in. Wasn't Botafogo like ten points clear at some
> > point? They're currently on a seven-game winless streak. Red Bull Bragantino
> > just blew a chance to go joint top by losing 1-0 at Flamengo.
> >
> >
> > And near the bottom three (or four) heavyweights are being chased by one
> > team in the drop zone:
> >
> > 13 Internacional 43
> > 14 Santos 42 (never been relegated)
> > 15 Vasco 41
> > 16 Cruzeiro 41
> > -----------
> > 17 Bahia 38
> >
> > Both Santos and Vasco have had good runs recently, six and five games
> > unbeaten respectively.
> All four should be safe with one more win (and maybe one extra draw in Vasco and Cruzeiro's cases).

...except that Corinthians decided to make it more interesting by losing 1-5 at home to Bahia on Friday and join the fun:

Pts Pld W F-A Diff
1 Palmeiras 63 35 18 58-32 +26
2 Flamengo 63 35 18 54-37 +17
3 Botafogo 62 35 18 56-33 +23
4 AtléticoMG 60 35 17 46-27 +19
5 Grêmio PA 59 35 18 57-53 +4
6 RB Bragant 59 35 16 46-31 +15
7 Fluminense 53 35 15 46-43 +3
8 AthleticoPR 52 35 13 47-39 +8
9 Cuiabá EC 48 35 13 36-35 +1
10 São Paulo 47 35 12 37-36 +1
11 SC Intern 46 35 12 39-43 -4
12 Fortaleza 45 35 12 40-42 -2
13 Corinthians 44 35 10 40-44 -4
14 Santos FC 43 35 11 38-56 -18
15 CR Vasco G 42 35 11 37-45 -8
16 E C Bahia 41 35 11 44-48 -4
17 Cruzeiro 41 34 10 32-30 +2
18 Goiás EC 35 34 8 34-49 -15
19 Coritiba 29 35 8 40-69 -29
10 América 21 35 4 39-74 -35

Goiás - Cruzeiro tonight might settle the third relegated in practice..

Tchau!
Jesus Petry

On Monday, November 27, 2023 at 1:51:01 PM UTC+1, Jesus Petry wrote:
> Em sexta-feira, 24 de novembro de 2023 às 14:41:39 UTC-3, Jesus Petry escreveu:
> > Em sexta-feira, 24 de novembro de 2023 às 08:19:16 UTC-3, Werner Pichler escreveu:
> > > Four rounds to go
> > >
> > > 1 Palmeiras 62
> > > 2 Botafogo 61
> > > 3 Flamengo 60
> > > 4 Grêmio 59
> > > 5 Bragantino 59
> > > 6 Atlético Mineiro 59
> > Atlético are on 57, actually.
> > > Rather the exciting run-in. Wasn't Botafogo like ten points clear at some
> > > point? They're currently on a seven-game winless streak. Red Bull Bragantino
> > > just blew a chance to go joint top by losing 1-0 at Flamengo.
> > >
> > >
> > > And near the bottom three (or four) heavyweights are being chased by one
> > > team in the drop zone:
> > >
> > > 13 Internacional 43
> > > 14 Santos 42 (never been relegated)
> > > 15 Vasco 41
> > > 16 Cruzeiro 41
> > > -----------
> > > 17 Bahia 38
> > >
> > > Both Santos and Vasco have had good runs recently, six and five games
> > > unbeaten respectively.
> > All four should be safe with one more win (and maybe one extra draw in Vasco and Cruzeiro's cases).
> ...except that Corinthians decided to make it more interesting by losing 1-5 at home to Bahia on Friday and join the fun:
>
> Pts Pld W F-A Diff
> 1 Palmeiras 63 35 18 58-32 +26
> 2 Flamengo 63 35 18 54-37 +17
> 3 Botafogo 62 35 18 56-33 +23
> 4 AtléticoMG 60 35 17 46-27 +19
> 5 Grêmio PA 59 35 18 57-53 +4
> 6 RB Bragant 59 35 16 46-31 +15
> 7 Fluminense 53 35 15 46-43 +3
> 8 AthleticoPR 52 35 13 47-39 +8
> 9 Cuiabá EC 48 35 13 36-35 +1
> 10 São Paulo 47 35 12 37-36 +1
> 11 SC Intern 46 35 12 39-43 -4
> 12 Fortaleza 45 35 12 40-42 -2
> 13 Corinthians 44 35 10 40-44 -4
> 14 Santos FC 43 35 11 38-56 -18
> 15 CR Vasco G 42 35 11 37-45 -8
> 16 E C Bahia 41 35 11 44-48 -4
> 17 Cruzeiro 41 34 10 32-30 +2
> 18 Goiás EC 35 34 8 34-49 -15
> 19 Coritiba 29 35 8 40-69 -29
> 10 América 21 35 4 39-74 -35
>
> Goiás - Cruzeiro tonight might settle the third relegated in practice.

96th minute, eh

Ciao,
Werner