On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 2:49:26 PM UTC+3, Ion Saliu wrote:
> On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 6:33:16 AM UTC+3, Michael Falkner wrote:
> > On Sunday, April 18, 2021 at 1:02:06 PM UTC-7, anders t wrote:
> > > Or just negotiation ammo?
> > >
> > > I hope the latter.
> > I think it's happening.
> >
> > I think the big clubs are sick of propping up the clubs which they feel need to die.
> >
> > Mike
> Axiomatics:
>
> European Super League (ESL) is an expression of sports economics. It was bound to happen. Actually, it should have happened earlier, given the existence of the American business model in professional sports.
>
> The closest model that comes to mind is the National Hockey League (NHL). It is globalized, although not at the same scale as soccer. There are many players from outside Canada and USA — Russia, former Czechoslovakia, Sweden, Finland, other European countries.
>
> The game performed very poorly up until 10 years back. Hockey was a religion in Canada but vastly ignored in the United States. The television rankings were in the doldrums. The game was way too fragmented. There were no commercial breaks as traditionally in the USA sports. The commercial breaks are the bread and butter of professional sports.
>
> Hockey changed a few rules and instituted obligatory commercial breaks. The game soared business-wise (higher and higher ratings). Even an NBA legend, Charles Barkley, disgusted with after-Jordan basketball, “defected” to NHL! He would attend quite a few hockey games!
>
> Football/soccer is like the old hockey insofar as the business model is concerned. It is a RELIGION alright. However, the TV model is very poor. The game has NO commercial breaks, except for a long one at the half. I reckon only a few “addicts” stay in front of the TV set to watch commercials! They must be drunk or drugged!
>
> ESL could become a big success based on the very global religiosity football/soccer enjoys. But at least one rule should be infused: COMMERCIAL BREAKS. There are many dead moments during the game (e.g. injuries, goalkeepers kicking the ball, delayed throw-ins, etc.)
>
> Another rule they should definitely change: Passing to the goalkeeper IF he is inside the 18-yard box. If it happens, an indirect kick should be awarded to the opponents.
>
> A mandatory commercial break per half could be also implemented — very much like the ‘hydration breaks’ experimented in hot weather. Let the players have a drink of refreshments and get a little rest.. They’ll be fresher and surely play better.
>
> O course, ESL will destroy a lot of little-league organizations. It’s all about MONEY! There will still be such “little leaguers” (read: national competitions). There are many minor-league hockey competitions in North America. Also, baseball, basketball, even American football, have “minor-league” competitions.
>
> FIFA and UEFA plan to take very adverse actions against the European Super League (ESL). One action is to ban the ESL players from playing for their respective national teams. I don’t think the players would care about it.
>
> There are soccer players today who announced they “retired” from their national teams. Naturally and obviously, they care about their PROFESSIONAL CAREERS. They make lots of money. Why risk career-ending injuries out of “patriotism”? What do other professions do for the sake of patriotism? Do the plumbers do anything at all as “patriots”?
>
> Most NBA top-players have always been reticent to play for Team USA in basketball Olympics or World Championships. NHL no longer allows the professional players to participate in the Olympic Games during the NHL season.
>
> The soccer players would care as much as the Soviet hockey players who defected to North America. USSR not only banned them from the national team. Worse, the “defectors” were sentenced in absentia to prison terms!
>
> Poor Skatolchah! His/Her Majesty, Frau EU, et al. will arrest him on the grounds of playing in the European Super League (ESL)... BTW - He and other greats play now in the football league of Saudi Arabia!!!
>
> “Die Meister!
> Die Besten!
> The Champions!”
>
> https://edition.cnn.com/world/live-news/european-super-league-updates-live-cmd-spt/index.html

A major development! Read it in Google-Groups-Usenet… while it lasts!

• https://groups.google.com/g/rec.sport.soccer/c/W4YAydutrKM
• UNLAWFUL: UEFA and FIFA Ban on ‘European Super League’ (2023)

So to summarise A22's revised plans for a European Super League:

1) Three divisions Star (16 teams), Gold (16 teams), Blue (32 teams)

2) All divisions divided into groups of eight, teams play home and away.

3) Each division will have an end of season knockout round with 8 clubs competing for the championship.

4) There will be promotion and relegation between the three leagues. Promotion into the Blue Division is based on performance in the domestic leagues.

5) Following on from the above - there are no permanent members and appointment to the league is based on sporting merit.

6) Participating clubs still remain in their domestic leagues.

7) All matches to be broadcast free of charge on the ESL's Unity streaming platform.

I think there should be enough there to address the concerns of people who protested against the original Super League proposal on the grounds that the domestic football leagues would be diminished or that permanent members made it anti competitive. Matches being broadcast for free should win a few over too and takes away the argument that the Super League somehow isn't "for the people".

I think A22 have come up with a really smart proposal, both in terms of the structure of the league but also in terms of changing certain principles of the league to negate the points made by those who were against it.

Of course, not as many teams are represented in the ESL as under current UEFA club competitions, but then nothing stops UEFA continuing to run the Europa & Europa Conference Leagues alongside the ESL.

I'm certainly more engaged by this revised ESL proposal than the forthcoming change of format to the Champions League.

RM

On 2023-12-23 16:37, Real_Mardin wrote:
> So to summarise A22's revised plans for a European Super League:
>
>
> 1) Three divisions Star (16 teams), Gold (16 teams), Blue (32 teams)
>
> 2) All divisions divided into groups of eight, teams play home and away.

14 matches there
>
> 3) Each division will have an end of season knockout round with 8 clubs
> competing for the championship.

two-legged ? That is another 5 matches for the most successful ones.

>
> 4) There will be promotion and relegation between the three leagues.
> Promotion into the Blue Division is based on performance in the domestic
> leagues.
>
> 5) Following on from the above - there are no permanent members and
> appointment to the league is based on sporting merit.
> 6) Participating clubs still remain in their domestic leagues.

That would require the approval of the domestic leagues, presumably.
They were not keen on this with the last proposal.

It also means the ESL would play mid-week games. How to squeeze them in
amid domestic cups etc ? That would require concessions from domestic
leagues (eg. reduce the leagues to 16 teams perhaps ?) or FAs (change
format and entry point for domestic cups.)
>
> 7) All matches to be broadcast free of charge on the ESL's Unity
> streaming platform.
>
So where will they make their money ? Advertising ?

>
> I think there should be enough there to address the concerns of people
> who protested against the original Super League proposal on the grounds
> that the domestic football leagues would be diminished or that permanent
> members made it anti competitive. Matches being broadcast for free
> should win a few over too and takes away the argument that the Super
> League somehow isn't "for the people".
>
> I think A22 have come up with a really smart proposal, both in terms of
> the structure of the league but also in terms of changing certain
> principles of the league to negate the points made by those who were
> against it.
>
> Of course, not as many teams are represented in the ESL as under current
> UEFA club competitions, but then nothing stops UEFA continuing to run
> the Europa & Europa Conference Leagues alongside the ESL.
>
> I'm certainly more engaged by this revised ESL proposal than the
> forthcoming change of format to the Champions League.
>
> RM

On 2023-12-23 16:37, Real_Mardin wrote:
> So to summarise A22's revised plans for a European Super League:
>
>
> 1) Three divisions Star (16 teams), Gold (16 teams), Blue (32 teams)
>
> 2) All divisions divided into groups of eight, teams play home and away.

> 14 matches there
>
> 3) Each division will have an end of season knockout round with 8 clubs
> competing for the championship.

> two-legged ? That is another 5 matches for the most successful ones.

The proposal says the ESL will use home and away fixtures throughout the competition, so I guess so.

>
> 4) There will be promotion and relegation between the three leagues.
> Promotion into the Blue Division is based on performance in the domestic
> leagues.
>
> 5) Following on from the above - there are no permanent members and
> appointment to the league is based on sporting merit.
> 6) Participating clubs still remain in their domestic leagues.

> That would require the approval of the domestic leagues, presumably.
> They were not keen on this with the last proposal.

I thought the issue with the first proposal was that the clubs were wanting to break away from their domestic leagues? This rectifies that, from a purely fixtures perspective the clubs would be absent from domestic duty for broadly the same amount of time as they are under UEFA competitions.

The only possible reluctance I can see from domestic leagues might be more political, eg fears of losing favour and influence with UEFA which could somehow negatively impact their national teams in some way.

> 7) All matches to be broadcast free of charge on the ESL's Unity
> streaming platform.
>

> So where will they make their money ? Advertising ?

Exactly that. The free of charge broadcast will be funded by advertising. There are supposed to be premium options open to people who want to pay more to reduce the advertising or have interactive options such as selecting different camera angles, live match data etc.

Given that premium sports channels who I currently pay to watch still maximise their profits by having adverts during the matches I for one have no issue with the ESL free to air broadcast having adverts.

RM

Real_Mardin wrote:
>
> I thought the issue with the first proposal was that the clubs were
> wanting to break away from their domestic leagues?

Nope. That was the spin put on it by the media. The original ESL
proposal was a replacement for the UEFA competitions and ESL fixtures
would have been played midweek.
> The only possible reluctance I can see from domestic leagues might
> be more political, eg fears of losing favour and influence with
> UEFA which could somehow negatively impact their national teams in
> some way.

Very few, if any, of the big domestic leagues are going to go against
UEFA/FIFA. Some big clubs might want to give them a bloody nose, but
that's just to leverage a situation that will give them a bigger
slice of the pie.

> The free of charge broadcast will be funded by advertsing.
> There are supposed to be premium options open to people
> who want to pay more to reduce the advertising or have
> interactive options such as selecting different camera angles, live
> match data etc.

Anybody thinking they will be watching a "Super League" of all the
big European teams free of charge is delusional. Adverts will be a
part of it but revenue from the TV broadcasters is so big these days
I'd dare to think how many on-screen adverts we'd have to put up with
if the broadcasters can't make money from subscriptions. (Currently
in the UK there is no on-screen adverts during matches, as Sky
Sports/TNT/Amazon are pay for football services.) Adverts only would
probably mean 90 minutes of adverts.

> Given that premium sports channels who I currently pay to watch
> still maximise their profits by having adverts during the matches I
> for one have no issue with the ESL free to air broadcast having
> adverts.

Don't hold your breath! The new proposal might put some pressure on
UEFA/FIFA to 'fix' things for certain clubs, but only two big
European teams have publicly expressed an interest in it. The idea
won't be going away I'm sure and there is some merit in giving UEFA a
kick. But without the likes of Bayern Munich, PSG and the English
clubs the two Spanish clubs aren't going to be having much
competition in their two team "Super League".

In article <99ae85c600d4b63f48d84e226a1a4ae7@news.novabbs.com>,
Real_Mardin <realmardinrss@proton.me> wrote:
>On 2023-12-23 16:37, Real_Mardin wrote:
>> So to summarise A22's revised plans for a European Super League:
>>
>>
>> 1) Three divisions Star (16 teams), Gold (16 teams), Blue (32 teams)
>>
>> 2) All divisions divided into groups of eight, teams play home and away.
>
>> 14 matches there
>>
>> 3) Each division will have an end of season knockout round with 8 clubs
>> competing for the championship.
>
>> two-legged ? That is another 5 matches for the most successful ones.
>
>The proposal says the ESL will use home and away fixtures throughout the
>competition, so I guess so.
>
>>
>> 4) There will be promotion and relegation between the three leagues.
>> Promotion into the Blue Division is based on performance in the domestic
>> leagues.
>>
>> 5) Following on from the above - there are no permanent members and
>> appointment to the league is based on sporting merit.
>> 6) Participating clubs still remain in their domestic leagues.
>
>> That would require the approval of the domestic leagues, presumably.
>> They were not keen on this with the last proposal.
>
>I thought the issue with the first proposal was that the clubs were
>wanting to break away from their domestic leagues? This rectifies that,
>from a purely fixtures perspective the clubs would be absent from
>domestic duty for broadly the same amount of time as they are under UEFA
>competitions.
>
>The only possible reluctance I can see from domestic leagues might be
>more political, eg fears of losing favour and influence with UEFA which
>could somehow negatively impact their national teams in some way.
>
>
>> 7) All matches to be broadcast free of charge on the ESL's Unity
>> streaming platform.
>>
>
>> So where will they make their money ? Advertising ?
>
>Exactly that. The free of charge broadcast will be funded by
>advertising. There are supposed to be premium options open to people who
>want to pay more to reduce the advertising or have interactive options
>such as selecting different camera angles, live match data etc.
>
>Given that premium sports channels who I currently pay to watch still
>maximise their profits by having adverts during the matches I for one
>have no issue with the ESL free to air broadcast having adverts.
>
>RM

Get UEFA to the table someone!
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; unsubscribe from Google Groups to be seen
Merry Christmas 2023 and Happy New year 2024 Beware https://mindspring.com

The Doctor wrote:
>
> Get UEFA to the table someone!

Don't worry, I'm sure they are scurrying around behind the scenes
seeing what 'they can do' to help the poor mis fortunate clubs who
feel they are not getting the riches and attention they deserve...