....the most overhyped manager in recent times?

I believe the answer is a resounding yes.

On 2024-02-11 06:50, Al Kamista wrote:
> ...the most overhyped manager in recent times?
>
> I believe the answer is a resounding yes.

Possibly, though maybe Pochettino, Nagelsmann and others could give him
a run for his money.

What is your view on replacements for Klopp? I hope they would not be
foolish enough to go with Gerrard. A lot of hype about Xabi Alonso, and
he is certainly doing well with Leverkusen, but he is still relatively
inexperienced as a coach.

On Sunday, February 11, 2024 at 12:25:00 PM UTC-5, MH wrote:
> On 2024-02-11 06:50, Al Kamista wrote:
> > ...the most overhyped manager in recent times?
> >
> > I believe the answer is a resounding yes.
> Possibly, though maybe Pochettino, Nagelsmann and others could give him
> a run for his money.
>
> What is your view on replacements for Klopp?

It's a terrible blow. There is no manager in this world that can punch above their weight like Klopp, not even Guardiola. He guided LFC to 1 title, 2 second place finishes (both times 1 point behind City), and 3 CL finals with 1 victory. All with the 8th highest net-spend in the EPL during his time.

> I hope they would not be
> foolish enough to go with Gerrard.

No one wants Gerrard, not even the most die hard LFC scousers. We have seen enough of this nostalgic BS with Lampard and Solksjaer.

> A lot of hype about Xabi Alonso, and
> he is certainly doing well with Leverkusen, but he is still relatively
> inexperienced as a coach.

Alonso seems to be the leading candidate. De Zerbi potentially #2. It's hard to know what they are thinking though as FSG keeps their dealings very hush-hush.

Al Kamista wrote:

> On Sunday, February 11, 2024 at 12:25:00 PM UTC-5, MH wrote:
>
> > I hope they would not be
> > foolish enough to go with Gerrard.
>
> No one wants Gerrard, not even the most die hard LFC scousers.

No, and I mean NO, Liverpool fan I know wants Steven Gerrard to
manage Liverpool... anymore. The Saudi Arabia thing seems to have
pissed a lot of them off. His rep has gone way down.

> We have seen enough of this nostalgic BS with Lampard
> and Solksjaer.

I can't understand the logic that because a player played well for
Club A they will make a good manager for Club A. Playing and
managing football clubs are two different things, so to me it's a
non sequitur.

On 2024-02-14 07:29, Blueshirt wrote:
> Al Kamista wrote:
>
>> On Sunday, February 11, 2024 at 12:25:00 PM UTC-5, MH wrote:
>>
>>> I hope they would not be
>>> foolish enough to go with Gerrard.
>>
>> No one wants Gerrard, not even the most die hard LFC scousers.
>
> No, and I mean NO, Liverpool fan I know wants Steven Gerrard to
> manage Liverpool... anymore. The Saudi Arabia thing seems to have
> pissed a lot of them off. His rep has gone way down.

I would assume that would be the case, but you never know - remember
Souness?
>
>> We have seen enough of this nostalgic BS with Lampard
>> and Solksjaer.
>
> I can't understand the logic that because a player played well for
> Club A they will make a good manager for Club A. Playing and
> managing football clubs are two different things, so to me it's a
> non sequitur.

Some do surprise. There was no reason to believe Zidane would make a
good manager - in fact, things about his personality made me think the
opposite.

On Wednesday, February 14, 2024 at 12:56:13 PM UTC-5, MH wrote:
> On 2024-02-14 07:29, Blueshirt wrote:
> > Al Kamista wrote:
> >
> >> On Sunday, February 11, 2024 at 12:25:00 PM UTC-5, MH wrote:
> >>
> >>> I hope they would not be
> >>> foolish enough to go with Gerrard.
> >>
> >> No one wants Gerrard, not even the most die hard LFC scousers.
> >
> > No, and I mean NO, Liverpool fan I know wants Steven Gerrard to
> > manage Liverpool... anymore. The Saudi Arabia thing seems to have
> > pissed a lot of them off. His rep has gone way down.
> I would assume that would be the case, but you never know - remember
> Souness?
> >
> >> We have seen enough of this nostalgic BS with Lampard
> >> and Solksjaer.
> >
> > I can't understand the logic that because a player played well for
> > Club A they will make a good manager for Club A. Playing and
> > managing football clubs are two different things, so to me it's a
> > non sequitur.
> Some do surprise. There was no reason to believe Zidane would make a
> good manager - in fact, things about his personality made me think the
> opposite.

There is Guardiola as well. But then you have Xavi. Guardiola and Zidane are the 2 big exceptions. I am not convinced that Zidane is all that. The sample size is too small and he inherited a stellar squad at RM.

On 2024-02-16 06:17, Al Kamista wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 14, 2024 at 12:56:13 PM UTC-5, MH wrote:
>> On 2024-02-14 07:29, Blueshirt wrote:
>>> Al Kamista wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sunday, February 11, 2024 at 12:25:00 PM UTC-5, MH wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I hope they would not be
>>>>> foolish enough to go with Gerrard.
>>>>
>>>> No one wants Gerrard, not even the most die hard LFC scousers.
>>>
>>> No, and I mean NO, Liverpool fan I know wants Steven Gerrard to
>>> manage Liverpool... anymore. The Saudi Arabia thing seems to have
>>> pissed a lot of them off. His rep has gone way down.
>> I would assume that would be the case, but you never know - remember
>> Souness?
>>>
>>>> We have seen enough of this nostalgic BS with Lampard
>>>> and Solksjaer.
>>>
>>> I can't understand the logic that because a player played well for
>>> Club A they will make a good manager for Club A. Playing and
>>> managing football clubs are two different things, so to me it's a
>>> non sequitur.
>> Some do surprise. There was no reason to believe Zidane would make a
>> good manager - in fact, things about his personality made me think the
>> opposite.
>
> There is Guardiola as well.

I think there was reason to believe Pep would be good based on his
leadership qualities as a player, and his record coaching within the
organization. Zidane's disciplinary record and lack of coaching made me
doubt he would work well, given that other prominent coaches had not
lasted long at RM.

But then you have Xavi. Guardiola and Zidane are the 2 big exceptions.
I am not convinced that Zidane is all that. The sample size is too small
and he inherited a stellar squad at RM.

and to finish the statement,
....about to get fired?

Yes

On 2024-02-16 10:28 a.m., MH wrote:
> On 2024-02-16 06:17, Al Kamista wrote:
>> On Wednesday, February 14, 2024 at 12:56:13 PM UTC-5, MH wrote:
>>> On 2024-02-14 07:29, Blueshirt wrote:
>>>> Al Kamista wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sunday, February 11, 2024 at 12:25:00 PM UTC-5, MH wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I hope they would not be
>>>>>> foolish enough to go with Gerrard.
>>>>>
>>>>> No one wants Gerrard, not even the most die hard LFC scousers.
>>>>
>>>> No, and I mean NO, Liverpool fan I know wants Steven Gerrard to
>>>> manage Liverpool... anymore. The Saudi Arabia thing seems to have
>>>> pissed a lot of them off. His rep has gone way down.
>>> I would assume that would be the case, but you never know - remember
>>> Souness?
>>>>
>>>>> We have seen enough of this nostalgic BS with Lampard
>>>>> and Solksjaer.
>>>>
>>>> I can't understand the logic that because a player played well for
>>>> Club A they will make a good manager for Club A. Playing and
>>>> managing football clubs are two different things, so to me it's a
>>>> non sequitur.
>>> Some do surprise. There was no reason to believe Zidane would make a
>>> good manager - in fact, things about his personality made me think the
>>> opposite.
>>
>> There is Guardiola as well.
>
> I think there was reason to believe Pep would be good based on his
> leadership qualities as a player, and his record coaching within the
> organization. Zidane's disciplinary record and lack of coaching made me
> doubt he would work well, given that other prominent coaches had not
> lasted long at RM.
>
>  But then you have Xavi. Guardiola and Zidane are the 2 big exceptions.
> I am not convinced that Zidane is all that. The sample size is too small
> and he inherited a stellar squad at RM.
>

MH wrote:

> I think there was reason to believe Pep would be good based on his
> leadership qualities as a player, and his record coaching within the
> organization. Zidane's disciplinary record and lack of coaching made me
> doubt he would work well, given that other prominent coaches had not
> lasted long at RM.

> But then you have Xavi. Guardiola and Zidane are the 2 big exceptions.
> I am not convinced that Zidane is all that. The sample size is too small
> and he inherited a stellar squad at RM.

It's an interesting question: which players end up being good coaches?

There are a few with almost zero professional playing experience (Sacchi, Mourinho, Tuchel, Nagelsmann), there are those who were honest journeymen who made it to the top flight but never really reached star status (Klopp, Allegri, Emery, Lippi, Ranieri, Ferguson), and others who were national-team level players, even though not necessarily superstars (Conte, Ancelotti, Arteta(*), Guardiola, Capello, Luis Enrique, Deschamps). Zidane is indeed the exception, a true superstar with a successful coaching career (Beckenbauer too, I guess, but he never tried his luck at the club level).

I was looking at the members of the Italian 2006 WC winning squad. The ones who have tried their hand at coaching:

Grosso
De Rossi
Cannavaro
Gattuso
Gilardino
Amelia
Barone
F. Inzaghi
Pirlo
Oddo

Gattuso, Pirlo, Inzaghi and Grosso have had their chances at high-profile clubs (and now De Rossi too), none of them too successful. Probably the one who I would rate at this moment as the most likely to succeed is Gilardino. Go figure.

On 2024-03-17 07:00, Futbolmetrix wrote:
> MH wrote:
>
>> I think there was reason to believe Pep would be good based on his
>> leadership qualities as a player, and his record coaching within the
>> organization. Zidane's disciplinary record and lack of coaching made
>> me doubt he would work well, given that other prominent coaches had
>> not lasted long at RM.
>
>>   But then you have Xavi. Guardiola and Zidane are the 2 big
>> exceptions. I am not convinced that Zidane is all that. The sample
>> size is too small and he inherited a stellar squad at RM.
>
> It's an interesting question: which players end up being good coaches?
>
> There are a few with almost zero professional playing experience
> (Sacchi, Mourinho, Tuchel, Nagelsmann), there are those who were honest
> journeymen who made it to the top flight but never really reached star
> status (Klopp, Allegri, Emery, Lippi, Ranieri, Ferguson), and others who
> were national-team level players, even though not necessarily superstars
> (Conte, Ancelotti, Arteta(*), Guardiola, Capello, Luis Enrique,
> Deschamps). Zidane is indeed the exception, a true superstar with a
> successful coaching career

Don't forget Cruyff.
Dalglish also had good success as a coach with both Liverpool and
Blackburn, (and got as high as second place with Newcastle).

Heynckes was not Cruyff or Zidane level, but was at least
"Internationale Klasse" and ended up winning a lot as coach.

(Beckenbauer too, I guess, but he never tried
> his luck at the club level).
>
> I was looking at the members of the Italian 2006 WC winning squad. The
> ones who have tried their hand at coaching:
>
> Grosso
> De Rossi
> Cannavaro
> Gattuso
> Gilardino
> Amelia
> Barone
> F. Inzaghi
> Pirlo
> Oddo
>
> Gattuso, Pirlo, Inzaghi and Grosso have had their chances at
> high-profile clubs (and now De Rossi too), none of them too successful.
> Probably the one who I would rate at this moment as the most likely to
> succeed is Gilardino. Go figure.