I read the following article by Paul Norman and thought of a few of the
curmudgeonly Luddites in this forum.

https://www.cyclingnews.com/features/cycling-tech-trends-i-wish-didnt-exist/

To be fair, I don't disagree with a lot of what he's written. He touches
upon the proliferation of bottom bracket "standards". New cassette
"standards", and integrated cockpits, and he appropriately gives a nod
to the pursuit of incremental gains for the professional peloton while
questioning the benefit of such marvelous advancements to the general,
albeit in the context of "Joe Average".

That said, Mr. Norman writes "I personally prefer the draw of the Sunday
morning club run, the sound of a dozen cyclists clipping in
simultaneously, the hard-earned coffee and cake at the halfway cafe, the
satisfaction of having seen the sunrise, the inane chat with clubmates
and the rest of Sunday on the sofa knowing you've put in a good shift. "

The sociopaths amoung us notwithstanding, whether your gig is the club
coffee ride at the ass crack of dawn or a solo 3 hour trek though the
woods with no one but a Keith Jarrett playlist, this really is what it
should be about.

On 2/4/2024 3:28 PM, zen cycle wrote:
> I read the following article by Paul Norman and thought of a
> few of the curmudgeonly Luddites in this forum.
>
> https://www.cyclingnews.com/features/cycling-tech-trends-i-wish-didnt-exist/
>
> To be fair, I don't disagree with a lot of what he's
> written. He touches upon the proliferation of bottom bracket
> "standards". New cassette "standards", and integrated
> cockpits, and he appropriately gives a nod to the pursuit of
> incremental gains for the professional peloton while
> questioning the benefit of such marvelous advancements to
> the general, albeit in the context of "Joe Average".
>
> That said, Mr. Norman writes "I personally prefer the draw
> of the Sunday morning club run, the sound of a dozen
> cyclists clipping in simultaneously, the hard-earned coffee
> and cake at the halfway cafe, the satisfaction of having
> seen the sunrise, the inane chat with clubmates and the rest
> of Sunday on the sofa knowing you've put in a good shift. "
>
> The sociopaths amoung us notwithstanding, whether your gig
> is the club coffee ride at the ass crack of dawn or a solo 3
> hour trek though the woods with no one but a Keith Jarrett
> playlist, this really is what it should be about.
>

Thanks for that.

We cyclists are not alone in that regard.

I read the new car reviews in the paper and marvel at the
latest geegaws people think are important, even necessary
(last week, an otherwise positive review lamented the
too-small 10 inch driver's screen and 'outdated'
3d-model-year-in-a-row software not scheduled for revision
until 2025). All through them, at least the parts I still
understand, I just don't get where that industry is going or
how they think.
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> On 2/4/2024 3:28 PM, zen cycle wrote:
>> I read the following article by Paul Norman and thought of a
>> few of the curmudgeonly Luddites in this forum.
>>
>> https://www.cyclingnews.com/features/cycling-tech-trends-i-wish-didnt-exist/
>>
>> To be fair, I don't disagree with a lot of what he's
>> written. He touches upon the proliferation of bottom bracket
>> "standards". New cassette "standards", and integrated
>> cockpits, and he appropriately gives a nod to the pursuit of
>> incremental gains for the professional peloton while
>> questioning the benefit of such marvelous advancements to
>> the general, albeit in the context of "Joe Average".
>>
>> That said, Mr. Norman writes "I personally prefer the draw
>> of the Sunday morning club run, the sound of a dozen
>> cyclists clipping in simultaneously, the hard-earned coffee
>> and cake at the halfway cafe, the satisfaction of having
>> seen the sunrise, the inane chat with clubmates and the rest
>> of Sunday on the sofa knowing you've put in a good shift. "
>>
>> The sociopaths amoung us notwithstanding, whether your gig
>> is the club coffee ride at the ass crack of dawn or a solo 3
>> hour trek though the woods with no one but a Keith Jarrett
>> playlist, this really is what it should be about.
>>
>
> Thanks for that.
>
> We cyclists are not alone in that regard.
>
> I read the new car reviews in the paper and marvel at the
> latest geegaws people think are important, even necessary
> (last week, an otherwise positive review lamented the
> too-small 10 inch driver's screen and 'outdated'
> 3d-model-year-in-a-row software not scheduled for revision
> until 2025). All through them, at least the parts I still
> understand, I just don't get where that industry is going or
> how they think.

The touch screens are cheap which is why they are being pushed by
manufacturers, less so by drivers etc, as it’s in terms of usability worse
and all that.

Im told that some manufacturers have rolled back a touch on that, as
customer feedback wasn’t positive.

Roger Merriman

On 2/4/2024 4:49 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 2/4/2024 3:28 PM, zen cycle wrote:
>> I read the following article by Paul Norman and thought of a few of
>> the curmudgeonly Luddites in this forum.
>>
>> https://www.cyclingnews.com/features/cycling-tech-trends-i-wish-didnt-exist/
>>
>> To be fair, I don't disagree with a lot of what he's written. He
>> touches upon the proliferation of bottom bracket "standards". New
>> cassette "standards", and integrated cockpits, and he appropriately
>> gives a nod to the pursuit of incremental gains for the professional
>> peloton while questioning the benefit of such marvelous advancements
>> to the general, albeit in the context of "Joe Average".
>>
>> That said, Mr. Norman writes "I personally prefer the draw of the
>> Sunday morning club run, the sound of a dozen cyclists clipping in
>> simultaneously, the hard-earned coffee and cake at the halfway cafe,
>> the satisfaction of having seen the sunrise, the inane chat with
>> clubmates and the rest of Sunday on the sofa knowing you've put in a
>> good shift. "
>>
>> The sociopaths amoung us notwithstanding, whether your gig is the club
>> coffee ride at the ass crack of dawn or a solo 3 hour trek though the
>> woods with no one but a Keith Jarrett playlist, this really is what it
>> should be about.
>>
>
> Thanks for that.
>
> We cyclists are not alone in that regard.
>
> I read the new car reviews in the paper and marvel at the latest geegaws
> people think are important, even necessary (last week, an otherwise
> positive review lamented the too-small 10 inch driver's screen and
> 'outdated' 3d-model-year-in-a-row software not scheduled for revision
> until 2025).  All through them, at least the parts I still understand, I
> just don't get where that industry is going or how they think.

As if my cell phone on a magnetic mount wasn't distracting enough,
"let's put a 16" diagonal display below the dashboard and off to the
right.....what could go wrong?"

Not to be outdone from cycling,
https://www.amazon.com/Kolasels-Handlebar-Motorcycle-Microphone-Elliptical/dp/B09M4138K3

On Sun, 4 Feb 2024 15:49:10 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 2/4/2024 3:28 PM, zen cycle wrote:
>> I read the following article by Paul Norman and thought of a
>> few of the curmudgeonly Luddites in this forum.
>>
>> https://www.cyclingnews.com/features/cycling-tech-trends-i-wish-didnt-exist/
>>
>> To be fair, I don't disagree with a lot of what he's
>> written. He touches upon the proliferation of bottom bracket
>> "standards". New cassette "standards", and integrated
>> cockpits, and he appropriately gives a nod to the pursuit of
>> incremental gains for the professional peloton while
>> questioning the benefit of such marvelous advancements to
>> the general, albeit in the context of "Joe Average".
>>
>> That said, Mr. Norman writes "I personally prefer the draw
>> of the Sunday morning club run, the sound of a dozen
>> cyclists clipping in simultaneously, the hard-earned coffee
>> and cake at the halfway cafe, the satisfaction of having
>> seen the sunrise, the inane chat with clubmates and the rest
>> of Sunday on the sofa knowing you've put in a good shift. "
>>
>> The sociopaths amoung us notwithstanding, whether your gig
>> is the club coffee ride at the ass crack of dawn or a solo 3
>> hour trek though the woods with no one but a Keith Jarrett
>> playlist, this really is what it should be about.
>>
>
>Thanks for that.
>
>We cyclists are not alone in that regard.
>
>I read the new car reviews in the paper and marvel at the
>latest geegaws people think are important, even necessary
>(last week, an otherwise positive review lamented the
>too-small 10 inch driver's screen and 'outdated'
>3d-model-year-in-a-row software not scheduled for revision
>until 2025). All through them, at least the parts I still
>understand, I just don't get where that industry is going or
>how they think.

It's called Marketing, I think. You see, something like a Atmospheric
Control System (for an additional $1790) is a far more impressive
device then a "hot and cold air heater" (No additional cost).
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Sunday, February 4, 2024 at 11:44:38 PM UTC+1, zen cycle wrote:
> On 2/4/2024 4:49 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> > On 2/4/2024 3:28 PM, zen cycle wrote:
> >> I read the following article by Paul Norman and thought of a few of
> >> the curmudgeonly Luddites in this forum.
> >>
> >> https://www.cyclingnews.com/features/cycling-tech-trends-i-wish-didnt-exist/
> >>
> >> To be fair, I don't disagree with a lot of what he's written. He
> >> touches upon the proliferation of bottom bracket "standards". New
> >> cassette "standards", and integrated cockpits, and he appropriately
> >> gives a nod to the pursuit of incremental gains for the professional
> >> peloton while questioning the benefit of such marvelous advancements
> >> to the general, albeit in the context of "Joe Average".
> >>
> >> That said, Mr. Norman writes "I personally prefer the draw of the
> >> Sunday morning club run, the sound of a dozen cyclists clipping in
> >> simultaneously, the hard-earned coffee and cake at the halfway cafe,
> >> the satisfaction of having seen the sunrise, the inane chat with
> >> clubmates and the rest of Sunday on the sofa knowing you've put in a
> >> good shift. "
> >>
> >> The sociopaths amoung us notwithstanding, whether your gig is the club
> >> coffee ride at the ass crack of dawn or a solo 3 hour trek though the
> >> woods with no one but a Keith Jarrett playlist, this really is what it
> >> should be about.
> >>
> >
> > Thanks for that.
> >
> > We cyclists are not alone in that regard.
> >
> > I read the new car reviews in the paper and marvel at the latest geegaws
> > people think are important, even necessary (last week, an otherwise
> > positive review lamented the too-small 10 inch driver's screen and
> > 'outdated' 3d-model-year-in-a-row software not scheduled for revision
> > until 2025). All through them, at least the parts I still understand, I
> > just don't get where that industry is going or how they think.
> As if my cell phone on a magnetic mount wasn't distracting enough,
> "let's put a 16" diagonal display below the dashboard and off to the
> right.....what could go wrong?"
>
> Not to be outdone from cycling,
> https://www.amazon.com/Kolasels-Handlebar-Motorcycle-Microphone-Elliptical/dp/B09M4138K3

It was a requirement for my EV that the essential functions had physic buttons and the most used ones on the steering wheel. Don't buy a Tesla.

Lou

On 2/5/2024 9:04 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Sunday, February 4, 2024 at 11:44:38 PM UTC+1, zen cycle wrote:
>> On 2/4/2024 4:49 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>> On 2/4/2024 3:28 PM, zen cycle wrote:
>>>> I read the following article by Paul Norman and thought of a few of
>>>> the curmudgeonly Luddites in this forum.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.cyclingnews.com/features/cycling-tech-trends-i-wish-didnt-exist/
>>>>
>>>> To be fair, I don't disagree with a lot of what he's written. He
>>>> touches upon the proliferation of bottom bracket "standards". New
>>>> cassette "standards", and integrated cockpits, and he appropriately
>>>> gives a nod to the pursuit of incremental gains for the professional
>>>> peloton while questioning the benefit of such marvelous advancements
>>>> to the general, albeit in the context of "Joe Average".
>>>>
>>>> That said, Mr. Norman writes "I personally prefer the draw of the
>>>> Sunday morning club run, the sound of a dozen cyclists clipping in
>>>> simultaneously, the hard-earned coffee and cake at the halfway cafe,
>>>> the satisfaction of having seen the sunrise, the inane chat with
>>>> clubmates and the rest of Sunday on the sofa knowing you've put in a
>>>> good shift. "
>>>>
>>>> The sociopaths amoung us notwithstanding, whether your gig is the club
>>>> coffee ride at the ass crack of dawn or a solo 3 hour trek though the
>>>> woods with no one but a Keith Jarrett playlist, this really is what it
>>>> should be about.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for that.
>>>
>>> We cyclists are not alone in that regard.
>>>
>>> I read the new car reviews in the paper and marvel at the latest geegaws
>>> people think are important, even necessary (last week, an otherwise
>>> positive review lamented the too-small 10 inch driver's screen and
>>> 'outdated' 3d-model-year-in-a-row software not scheduled for revision
>>> until 2025). All through them, at least the parts I still understand, I
>>> just don't get where that industry is going or how they think.
>> As if my cell phone on a magnetic mount wasn't distracting enough,
>> "let's put a 16" diagonal display below the dashboard and off to the
>> right.....what could go wrong?"
>>
>> Not to be outdone from cycling,
>> https://www.amazon.com/Kolasels-Handlebar-Motorcycle-Microphone-Elliptical/dp/B09M4138K3
>
> It was a requirement for my EV that the essential functions had physic buttons and the most used ones on the steering wheel. Don't buy a Tesla.

My EV has a mix of controls, with some on the touchscreen and some in
physical buttons. But most of the physical buttons are smooth,
rectangular and immediately adjacent to each other. I still have to take
my eyes off the road to find them.

I'm planning to put stick-on dots on the ones I use most, so I can
locate them by touch.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 2/4/2024 4:28 PM, zen cycle wrote:
> I read the following article by Paul Norman and thought of a few of the
> curmudgeonly Luddites in this forum.
>
> https://www.cyclingnews.com/features/cycling-tech-trends-i-wish-didnt-exist/
>
> To be fair, I don't disagree with a lot of what he's written. He touches
> upon the proliferation of bottom bracket "standards". New cassette
> "standards", and integrated cockpits, and he appropriately gives a nod
> to the pursuit of incremental gains for the professional peloton while
> questioning the benefit of such marvelous advancements to the general,
> albeit in the context of "Joe Average".
>
> That said, Mr. Norman writes "I personally prefer the draw of the Sunday
> morning club run, the sound of a dozen cyclists clipping in
> simultaneously, the hard-earned coffee and cake at the halfway cafe, the
> satisfaction of having seen the sunrise, the inane chat with clubmates
> and the rest of Sunday on the sofa knowing you've put in a good shift. "
>
> The sociopaths amoung us notwithstanding, whether your gig is the club
> coffee ride at the ass crack of dawn or a solo 3 hour trek though the
> woods with no one but a Keith Jarrett playlist, this really is what it
> should be about.

Good article. I agree with everything except waking up early on a Sunday
morning.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Sunday, February 4, 2024 at 1:49:12 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> On 2/4/2024 3:28 PM, zen cycle wrote:
> > I read the following article by Paul Norman and thought of a
> > few of the curmudgeonly Luddites in this forum.
> >
> > https://www.cyclingnews.com/features/cycling-tech-trends-i-wish-didnt-exist/
> >
> > To be fair, I don't disagree with a lot of what he's
> > written. He touches upon the proliferation of bottom bracket
> > "standards". New cassette "standards", and integrated
> > cockpits, and he appropriately gives a nod to the pursuit of
> > incremental gains for the professional peloton while
> > questioning the benefit of such marvelous advancements to
> > the general, albeit in the context of "Joe Average".
> >
> > That said, Mr. Norman writes "I personally prefer the draw
> > of the Sunday morning club run, the sound of a dozen
> > cyclists clipping in simultaneously, the hard-earned coffee
> > and cake at the halfway cafe, the satisfaction of having
> > seen the sunrise, the inane chat with clubmates and the rest
> > of Sunday on the sofa knowing you've put in a good shift. "
> >
> > The sociopaths amoung us notwithstanding, whether your gig
> > is the club coffee ride at the ass crack of dawn or a solo 3
> > hour trek though the woods with no one but a Keith Jarrett
> > playlist, this really is what it should be about.
> >
> Thanks for that.
>
> We cyclists are not alone in that regard.
>
> I read the new car reviews in the paper and marvel at the
> latest geegaws people think are important, even necessary
> (last week, an otherwise positive review lamented the
> too-small 10 inch driver's screen and 'outdated'
> 3d-model-year-in-a-row software not scheduled for revision
> until 2025). All through them, at least the parts I still
> understand, I just don't get where that industry is going or
> how they think.
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> a...@yellowjersey.org
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I am really surprised that Flunky actually gets it after so long. Saturday I did Cull Canyon during the morning before the rains returned. After exiting the Canyon I rode down to Rudy's Donuts for an apple fritter and a cup of coffee. The place was packed more than usual and while I was waiting I was approached by another cyclist that invited me on a group ride. I smiled and said that I'd think about it because I know that I am FAR too slow for group rides anymore.

My Specialized Allez aluminum bike arrived without the UPS man ringing the bell or perhaps he tried and the switch contacts need cleaning again. Sunday morning I removed the bike from the box in my living room while it poured rain outside and got my razor knife and started cutting up the box until my wife was so sick that I had to call an ambulance. It turned out to be nothing more than a strained neck from sleeping on the couch. She started that back when I was so sensitive to her movements when I had the shingles, but that had long passed and she continued sleeping there. It should occur to ANYONE that sleeping on a couch is going to give you a stained neck but she liked being able to leave a window open in 40 degree weather which of course caused the heater to run all night.

She is in a great deal of pain but last night she returned to the bed. She is sleeping so soundly that I can only hope that some of the pain is reduced.

I pulled a bunch of parts off of the Allez, but I still have to take the ISO bottom bracket off. It appears that when it was installed it was partially stripped so I will have to be careful with it. The Allez is not an especially light bike so I think that it will be a little heavier assembled than the steel Basso with an identical groupset except the wheels will be Bontrager RSL's rather than X-lites. I will have to be especially careful pulling that BB out, I will use an 18" socket wrench rather than the usual 6" which is good because it is difficult to overtighten parts with that small leverage.

Then I have an identical Dura Ace 10 speed group to install on the bike and I will put everything but the Basso, Allez, Tommasini and BMC up for sale' The BMC is built with EC90 layup so it is very strong and unlikely to break on my relatively easy rides. The real riders will be the Allez and Basso. The fastest speeds I made down Cull Canyon was 31 mph and that was on a perfect straight section of the descent. The average speed up and back was the usual 10.5 mph. I got back exhausted but not remarkably so. There was at least one spot at which my heart rate peaked. That is unavoidable since at that point it is about a 13% ascent. Otherwise I pretty much managed to maintain a 2nd level ride.

So again I have to compliment Flunky for finally getting the point that there is fast and there is fast. And we normal riders don't even know what "fast" is. So a $10,000 is a hopeless expense in a bike for the normal rider and my $165 plus shipping is just as good. The Dura Ace 10 speed components cost about $600 in total and a 105 manual 12 speed is just as good and you can pick them up cheap as well.

Until people stop buying those ridiculously expensive bike, the manufacturers will continue to make them. Let strangle that market.

On Monday, February 5, 2024 at 6:04:37 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Sunday, February 4, 2024 at 11:44:38 PM UTC+1, zen cycle wrote:
> > On 2/4/2024 4:49 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> > > On 2/4/2024 3:28 PM, zen cycle wrote:
> > >> I read the following article by Paul Norman and thought of a few of
> > >> the curmudgeonly Luddites in this forum.
> > >>
> > >> https://www.cyclingnews.com/features/cycling-tech-trends-i-wish-didnt-exist/
> > >>
> > >> To be fair, I don't disagree with a lot of what he's written. He
> > >> touches upon the proliferation of bottom bracket "standards". New
> > >> cassette "standards", and integrated cockpits, and he appropriately
> > >> gives a nod to the pursuit of incremental gains for the professional
> > >> peloton while questioning the benefit of such marvelous advancements
> > >> to the general, albeit in the context of "Joe Average".
> > >>
> > >> That said, Mr. Norman writes "I personally prefer the draw of the
> > >> Sunday morning club run, the sound of a dozen cyclists clipping in
> > >> simultaneously, the hard-earned coffee and cake at the halfway cafe,
> > >> the satisfaction of having seen the sunrise, the inane chat with
> > >> clubmates and the rest of Sunday on the sofa knowing you've put in a
> > >> good shift. "
> > >>
> > >> The sociopaths amoung us notwithstanding, whether your gig is the club
> > >> coffee ride at the ass crack of dawn or a solo 3 hour trek though the
> > >> woods with no one but a Keith Jarrett playlist, this really is what it
> > >> should be about.
> > >>
> > >
> > > Thanks for that.
> > >
> > > We cyclists are not alone in that regard.
> > >
> > > I read the new car reviews in the paper and marvel at the latest geegaws
> > > people think are important, even necessary (last week, an otherwise
> > > positive review lamented the too-small 10 inch driver's screen and
> > > 'outdated' 3d-model-year-in-a-row software not scheduled for revision
> > > until 2025). All through them, at least the parts I still understand, I
> > > just don't get where that industry is going or how they think.
> > As if my cell phone on a magnetic mount wasn't distracting enough,
> > "let's put a 16" diagonal display below the dashboard and off to the
> > right.....what could go wrong?"
> >
> > Not to be outdone from cycling,
> > https://www.amazon.com/Kolasels-Handlebar-Motorcycle-Microphone-Elliptical/dp/B09M4138K3
> It was a requirement for my EV that the essential functions had physic buttons and the most used ones on the steering wheel. Don't buy a Tesla.
>
> Lou

At this point most people understand that Tesla makes the batteries that are somewhat reliable and are used rather than the very unreliable Chinese batteries. If the major cost of an EV is the Tesla made batteries you might as well buy a new Tesla which are now cheaper than a like model ICE Ford.

Tom Kunich <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Monday, February 5, 2024 at 6:04:37 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
>> On Sunday, February 4, 2024 at 11:44:38 PM UTC+1, zen cycle wrote:
>>> On 2/4/2024 4:49 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>> On 2/4/2024 3:28 PM, zen cycle wrote:
>>>>> I read the following article by Paul Norman and thought of a few of
>>>>> the curmudgeonly Luddites in this forum.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.cyclingnews.com/features/cycling-tech-trends-i-wish-didnt-exist/
>>>>>
>>>>> To be fair, I don't disagree with a lot of what he's written. He
>>>>> touches upon the proliferation of bottom bracket "standards". New
>>>>> cassette "standards", and integrated cockpits, and he appropriately
>>>>> gives a nod to the pursuit of incremental gains for the professional
>>>>> peloton while questioning the benefit of such marvelous advancements
>>>>> to the general, albeit in the context of "Joe Average".
>>>>>
>>>>> That said, Mr. Norman writes "I personally prefer the draw of the
>>>>> Sunday morning club run, the sound of a dozen cyclists clipping in
>>>>> simultaneously, the hard-earned coffee and cake at the halfway cafe,
>>>>> the satisfaction of having seen the sunrise, the inane chat with
>>>>> clubmates and the rest of Sunday on the sofa knowing you've put in a
>>>>> good shift. "
>>>>>
>>>>> The sociopaths amoung us notwithstanding, whether your gig is the club
>>>>> coffee ride at the ass crack of dawn or a solo 3 hour trek though the
>>>>> woods with no one but a Keith Jarrett playlist, this really is what it
>>>>> should be about.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for that.
>>>>
>>>> We cyclists are not alone in that regard.
>>>>
>>>> I read the new car reviews in the paper and marvel at the latest geegaws
>>>> people think are important, even necessary (last week, an otherwise
>>>> positive review lamented the too-small 10 inch driver's screen and
>>>> 'outdated' 3d-model-year-in-a-row software not scheduled for revision
>>>> until 2025). All through them, at least the parts I still understand, I
>>>> just don't get where that industry is going or how they think.
>>> As if my cell phone on a magnetic mount wasn't distracting enough,
>>> "let's put a 16" diagonal display below the dashboard and off to the
>>> right.....what could go wrong?"
>>>
>>> Not to be outdone from cycling,
>>> https://www.amazon.com/Kolasels-Handlebar-Motorcycle-Microphone-Elliptical/dp/B09M4138K3
>> It was a requirement for my EV that the essential functions had physic
>> buttons and the most used ones on the steering wheel. Don't buy a Tesla.
>>
>> Lou
>
> At this point most people understand that Tesla makes the batteries that
> are somewhat reliable and are used rather than the very unreliable
> Chinese batteries. If the major cost of an EV is the Tesla made batteries
> you might as well buy a new Tesla which are now cheaper than a like model ICE Ford.
>
In unsurprisingly news that isn’t true Model Y seems to sell at just under
50k the Ford Edge is some 10k less, both are same segment. Ie mid sized
SUV.

Roger Merriman

On Tuesday, February 6, 2024 at 6:20:17 AM UTC-8, Roger Merriman wrote:
> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Monday, February 5, 2024 at 6:04:37 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> >> On Sunday, February 4, 2024 at 11:44:38 PM UTC+1, zen cycle wrote:
> >>> On 2/4/2024 4:49 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>> On 2/4/2024 3:28 PM, zen cycle wrote:
> >>>>> I read the following article by Paul Norman and thought of a few of
> >>>>> the curmudgeonly Luddites in this forum.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> https://www.cyclingnews.com/features/cycling-tech-trends-i-wish-didnt-exist/
> >>>>>
> >>>>> To be fair, I don't disagree with a lot of what he's written. He
> >>>>> touches upon the proliferation of bottom bracket "standards". New
> >>>>> cassette "standards", and integrated cockpits, and he appropriately
> >>>>> gives a nod to the pursuit of incremental gains for the professional
> >>>>> peloton while questioning the benefit of such marvelous advancements
> >>>>> to the general, albeit in the context of "Joe Average".
> >>>>>
> >>>>> That said, Mr. Norman writes "I personally prefer the draw of the
> >>>>> Sunday morning club run, the sound of a dozen cyclists clipping in
> >>>>> simultaneously, the hard-earned coffee and cake at the halfway cafe,
> >>>>> the satisfaction of having seen the sunrise, the inane chat with
> >>>>> clubmates and the rest of Sunday on the sofa knowing you've put in a
> >>>>> good shift. "
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The sociopaths amoung us notwithstanding, whether your gig is the club
> >>>>> coffee ride at the ass crack of dawn or a solo 3 hour trek though the
> >>>>> woods with no one but a Keith Jarrett playlist, this really is what it
> >>>>> should be about.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks for that.
> >>>>
> >>>> We cyclists are not alone in that regard.
> >>>>
> >>>> I read the new car reviews in the paper and marvel at the latest geegaws
> >>>> people think are important, even necessary (last week, an otherwise
> >>>> positive review lamented the too-small 10 inch driver's screen and
> >>>> 'outdated' 3d-model-year-in-a-row software not scheduled for revision
> >>>> until 2025). All through them, at least the parts I still understand, I
> >>>> just don't get where that industry is going or how they think.
> >>> As if my cell phone on a magnetic mount wasn't distracting enough,
> >>> "let's put a 16" diagonal display below the dashboard and off to the
> >>> right.....what could go wrong?"
> >>>
> >>> Not to be outdone from cycling,
> >>> https://www.amazon.com/Kolasels-Handlebar-Motorcycle-Microphone-Elliptical/dp/B09M4138K3
> >> It was a requirement for my EV that the essential functions had physic
> >> buttons and the most used ones on the steering wheel. Don't buy a Tesla.
> >>
> >> Lou
> >
> > At this point most people understand that Tesla makes the batteries that
> > are somewhat reliable and are used rather than the very unreliable
> > Chinese batteries. If the major cost of an EV is the Tesla made batteries
> > you might as well buy a new Tesla which are now cheaper than a like model ICE Ford.
> >
> In unsurprisingly news that isn’t true Model Y seems to sell at just under
> 50k the Ford Edge is some 10k less, both are same segment. Ie mid sized
> SUV.
>
> Roger Merriman
Roger, at least try to speak about comparable cars. The Model Y is much closer to the Ford Taurus than to an Edge. A new Model Y with the extended range is $49,000. The Ford Taurus starts at $27,000 though adding bell and whistles drives the price up pretty fast though that information isn't available yet. The taurus is a LOT more luxurious than the Tesla which being made in one giant press is pretty crude.

On Sun Feb 4 17:44:33 2024 zen cycle wrote:
> On 2/4/2024 4:49 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> > On 2/4/2024 3:28 PM, zen cycle wrote:
> >> I read the following article by Paul Norman and thought of a few of
> >> the curmudgeonly Luddites in this forum.
> >>
> >> https://www.cyclingnews.com/features/cycling-tech-trends-i-wish-didnt-exist/
> >>
> >> To be fair, I don't disagree with a lot of what he's written. He
> >> touches upon the proliferation of bottom bracket "standards". New
> >> cassette "standards", and integrated cockpits, and he appropriately
> >> gives a nod to the pursuit of incremental gains for the professional
> >> peloton while questioning the benefit of such marvelous advancements
> >> to the general, albeit in the context of "Joe Average".
> >>
> >> That said, Mr. Norman writes "I personally prefer the draw of the
> >> Sunday morning club run, the sound of a dozen cyclists clipping in
> >> simultaneously, the hard-earned coffee and cake at the halfway cafe,
> >> the satisfaction of having seen the sunrise, the inane chat with
> >> clubmates and the rest of Sunday on the sofa knowing you've put in a
> >> good shift. "
> >>
> >> The sociopaths amoung us notwithstanding, whether your gig is the club
> >> coffee ride at the ass crack of dawn or a solo 3 hour trek though the
> >> woods with no one but a Keith Jarrett playlist, this really is what it
> >> should be about.
> >>
> >
> > Thanks for that.
> >
> > We cyclists are not alone in that regard.
> >
> > I read the new car reviews in the paper and marvel at the latest geegaws
> > people think are important, even necessary (last week, an otherwise
> > positive review lamented the too-small 10 inch driver's screen and
> > 'outdated' 3d-model-year-in-a-row software not scheduled for revision
> > until 2025). All through them, at least the parts I still understand, I
> > just don't get where that industry is going or how they think.
>
> As if my cell phone on a magnetic mount wasn't distracting enough,
> "let's put a 16" diagonal display below the dashboard and off to the
> right.....what could go wrong?"
>
> Not to be outdone from cycling,
> https://www.amazon.com/Kolasels-Handlebar-Motorcycle-Microphone-Elliptical/dp/B09M4138K3

While I agree that it sounds bad, it had large zones on it and also it does a lot of things automatically. People that us them glance at them less than they do a speedometer. Think about putting a tachometer on an automatic transmission car.