Well, it seems possible this all ends tomorrow? I have eternal sept but use google now. Will have to see.
Deacon mark

On Wed, 21 Feb 2024 13:26:58 -0800 (PST), Mark Cleary
<deaconmjc08@gmail.com> wrote:

>Well, it seems possible this all ends tomorrow? I have eternal sept but use google now. Will have to see.
>Deacon mark

I always thought using Google groups was ridiculously clumsy. It was
only useful for documenting posts.

On 2/21/24 1:26 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
> Well, it seems possible this all ends tomorrow?

Nah. You of all people would know, it comes like a thief in the night (1
Thessalonians 5:2)

:-)

> ... I have eternal sept but use google now. Will have to see.

I would never use Google for that. Ever. A very long time ago I signed
up with these guys:

http://news.individual.net/index.php

Never looked back. It's cheap, 10 Euros/year and to avoid the yearly
hassle I pay five years ahead. That way I have someone to talk to if
something fritzes up. But it never does.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 2/21/2024 3:47 PM, Joerg wrote:
> On 2/21/24 1:26 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
>> Well, it seems possible this all ends tomorrow?
>
>
> Nah. You of all people would know, it comes like a thief in
> the night (1 Thessalonians 5:2)
>
> :-)
>
>
>>  ... I have eternal sept but use google now. Will have to
>> see.
>
>
> I would never use Google for that. Ever. A very long time
> ago I signed up with these guys:
>
> http://news.individual.net/index.php
>
> Never looked back. It's cheap, 10 Euros/year and to avoid
> the yearly hassle I pay five years ahead. That way I have
> someone to talk to if something fritzes up. But it never does.
>

+1 to any not-Gurgle product!
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Wed, 21 Feb 2024 17:55:58 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 2/21/2024 3:47 PM, Joerg wrote:
>> On 2/21/24 1:26 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
>>> Well, it seems possible this all ends tomorrow?
>>
>>
>> Nah. You of all people would know, it comes like a thief in
>> the night (1 Thessalonians 5:2)
>>
>> :-)
>>
>>
>>>  ... I have eternal sept but use google now. Will have to
>>> see.
>>
>>
>> I would never use Google for that. Ever. A very long time
>> ago I signed up with these guys:
>>
>> http://news.individual.net/index.php
>>
>> Never looked back. It's cheap, 10 Euros/year and to avoid
>> the yearly hassle I pay five years ahead. That way I have
>> someone to talk to if something fritzes up. But it never does.
>>
>
>+1 to any not-Gurgle product!

Usenet is not a product, which is one reason why Google bailing out.

Individual.net only retains articles for a minimum of 2.7 years:
<https://news.individual.net/hierarchies.php>
Google Groups goes back to 1981 (43 years).

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Feb 2024 17:55:58 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>> On 2/21/2024 3:47 PM, Joerg wrote:
>>> On 2/21/24 1:26 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
>>>> Well, it seems possible this all ends tomorrow?
>>>
>>>
>>> Nah. You of all people would know, it comes like a thief in
>>> the night (1 Thessalonians 5:2)
>>>
>>> :-)
>>>
>>>
>>>>  ... I have eternal sept but use google now. Will have to
>>>> see.
>>>
>>>
>>> I would never use Google for that. Ever. A very long time
>>> ago I signed up with these guys:
>>>
>>> http://news.individual.net/index.php
>>>
>>> Never looked back. It's cheap, 10 Euros/year and to avoid
>>> the yearly hassle I pay five years ahead. That way I have
>>> someone to talk to if something fritzes up. But it never does.
>>>
>>
>> +1 to any not-Gurgle product!
>
> Usenet is not a product, which is one reason why Google bailing out.
>
> Individual.net only retains articles for a minimum of 2.7 years:
> <https://news.individual.net/hierarchies.php>
> Google Groups goes back to 1981 (43 years).
>
>
15 here with easy news mind you fair bit more expensive and equally have
never wanted to look back that far.

Though data and history loss is never a good thing.

Roger Merriman

On Thu, 22 Feb 2024 10:48:39 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
wrote:

>Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 21 Feb 2024 17:55:58 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2/21/2024 3:47 PM, Joerg wrote:
>>>> On 2/21/24 1:26 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
>>>>> Well, it seems possible this all ends tomorrow?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Nah. You of all people would know, it comes like a thief in
>>>> the night (1 Thessalonians 5:2)
>>>>
>>>> :-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>  ... I have eternal sept but use google now. Will have to
>>>>> see.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I would never use Google for that. Ever. A very long time
>>>> ago I signed up with these guys:
>>>>
>>>> http://news.individual.net/index.php
>>>>
>>>> Never looked back. It's cheap, 10 Euros/year and to avoid
>>>> the yearly hassle I pay five years ahead. That way I have
>>>> someone to talk to if something fritzes up. But it never does.
>>>>
>>>
>>> +1 to any not-Gurgle product!
>>
>> Usenet is not a product, which is one reason why Google bailing out.
>>
>> Individual.net only retains articles for a minimum of 2.7 years:
>> <https://news.individual.net/hierarchies.php>
>> Google Groups goes back to 1981 (43 years).
>>
>>
>15 here with easy news mind you fair bit more expensive and equally have
>never wanted to look back that far.
>
>Though data and history loss is never a good thing.
>
>Roger Merriman

Google said you could still check back on their retained data, but
really, are old Usenet posts worth saving?

Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
> On Thu, 22 Feb 2024 10:48:39 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 21 Feb 2024 17:55:58 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2/21/2024 3:47 PM, Joerg wrote:
>>>>> On 2/21/24 1:26 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
>>>>>> Well, it seems possible this all ends tomorrow?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Nah. You of all people would know, it comes like a thief in
>>>>> the night (1 Thessalonians 5:2)
>>>>>
>>>>> :-)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>  ... I have eternal sept but use google now. Will have to
>>>>>> see.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I would never use Google for that. Ever. A very long time
>>>>> ago I signed up with these guys:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://news.individual.net/index.php
>>>>>
>>>>> Never looked back. It's cheap, 10 Euros/year and to avoid
>>>>> the yearly hassle I pay five years ahead. That way I have
>>>>> someone to talk to if something fritzes up. But it never does.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> +1 to any not-Gurgle product!
>>>
>>> Usenet is not a product, which is one reason why Google bailing out.
>>>
>>> Individual.net only retains articles for a minimum of 2.7 years:
>>> <https://news.individual.net/hierarchies.php>
>>> Google Groups goes back to 1981 (43 years).
>>>
>>>
>> 15 here with easy news mind you fair bit more expensive and equally have
>> never wanted to look back that far.
>>
>> Though data and history loss is never a good thing.
>>
>> Roger Merriman
>
>
> Google said you could still check back on their retained data, but
> really, are old Usenet posts worth saving?
>

Is some cycling history plus others that might well be?

Roger Merriman

On 2/22/2024 5:03 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
> On Thu, 22 Feb 2024 10:48:39 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 21 Feb 2024 17:55:58 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2/21/2024 3:47 PM, Joerg wrote:
>>>>> On 2/21/24 1:26 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
>>>>>> Well, it seems possible this all ends tomorrow?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Nah. You of all people would know, it comes like a thief in
>>>>> the night (1 Thessalonians 5:2)
>>>>>
>>>>> :-)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>  ... I have eternal sept but use google now. Will have to
>>>>>> see.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I would never use Google for that. Ever. A very long time
>>>>> ago I signed up with these guys:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://news.individual.net/index.php
>>>>>
>>>>> Never looked back. It's cheap, 10 Euros/year and to avoid
>>>>> the yearly hassle I pay five years ahead. That way I have
>>>>> someone to talk to if something fritzes up. But it never does.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> +1 to any not-Gurgle product!
>>>
>>> Usenet is not a product, which is one reason why Google bailing out.
>>>
>>> Individual.net only retains articles for a minimum of 2.7 years:
>>> <https://news.individual.net/hierarchies.php>
>>> Google Groups goes back to 1981 (43 years).
>>>
>>>
>> 15 here with easy news mind you fair bit more expensive and equally have
>> never wanted to look back that far.
>>
>> Though data and history loss is never a good thing.
>>
>> Roger Merriman
>
>
> Google said you could still check back on their retained data, but
> really, are old Usenet posts worth saving?

Well, mine aren't. Electronic ephemera...
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Thu, 22 Feb 2024 07:47:19 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 2/22/2024 5:03 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>> On Thu, 22 Feb 2024 10:48:39 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 21 Feb 2024 17:55:58 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2/21/2024 3:47 PM, Joerg wrote:
>>>>>> On 2/21/24 1:26 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
>>>>>>> Well, it seems possible this all ends tomorrow?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nah. You of all people would know, it comes like a thief in
>>>>>> the night (1 Thessalonians 5:2)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  ... I have eternal sept but use google now. Will have to
>>>>>>> see.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would never use Google for that. Ever. A very long time
>>>>>> ago I signed up with these guys:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://news.individual.net/index.php
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Never looked back. It's cheap, 10 Euros/year and to avoid
>>>>>> the yearly hassle I pay five years ahead. That way I have
>>>>>> someone to talk to if something fritzes up. But it never does.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> +1 to any not-Gurgle product!
>>>>
>>>> Usenet is not a product, which is one reason why Google bailing out.
>>>>
>>>> Individual.net only retains articles for a minimum of 2.7 years:
>>>> <https://news.individual.net/hierarchies.php>
>>>> Google Groups goes back to 1981 (43 years).
>>>>
>>>>
>>> 15 here with easy news mind you fair bit more expensive and equally have
>>> never wanted to look back that far.
>>>
>>> Though data and history loss is never a good thing.
>>>
>>> Roger Merriman
>>
>>
>> Google said you could still check back on their retained data, but
>> really, are old Usenet posts worth saving?
>
>
>Well, mine aren't. Electronic ephemera...

Me too.

AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> writes:

> On 2/21/2024 3:47 PM, Joerg wrote:
>> On 2/21/24 1:26 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
>>> Well, it seems possible this all ends tomorrow?
>>
>> Nah. You of all people would know, it comes like a thief in the
>> night (1 Thessalonians 5:2)
>> :-)
>>
>>>  ... I have eternal sept but use google now. Will have to see.
>>
>> I would never use Google for that. Ever. A very long time ago I
>> signed up with these guys:
>> http://news.individual.net/index.php
>> Never looked back. It's cheap, 10 Euros/year and to avoid
>> the yearly hassle I pay five years ahead. That way I have someone to
>> talk to if something fritzes up. But it never does.
>>
>
> +1 to any not-Gurgle product!

I used to use and like them until they told me that they could no longer
serve US customers. I don't remember the actual regulatory issue. Not
sure why it does not affect Joerg either.

On Fri, 23 Feb 2024 13:16:30 -0500, Radey Shouman
<shouman@comcast.net> wrote:

>AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> writes:
>
>> On 2/21/2024 3:47 PM, Joerg wrote:
>>> On 2/21/24 1:26 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
>>>> Well, it seems possible this all ends tomorrow?
>>>
>>> Nah. You of all people would know, it comes like a thief in the
>>> night (1 Thessalonians 5:2)
>>> :-)
>>>
>>>>  ... I have eternal sept but use google now. Will have to see.
>>>
>>> I would never use Google for that. Ever. A very long time ago I
>>> signed up with these guys:
>>> http://news.individual.net/index.php
>>> Never looked back. It's cheap, 10 Euros/year and to avoid
>>> the yearly hassle I pay five years ahead. That way I have someone to
>>> talk to if something fritzes up. But it never does.
>>>
>>
>> +1 to any not-Gurgle product!

>I used to use and like them until they told me that they could no longer
>serve US customers. I don't remember the actual regulatory issue. Not
>sure why it does not affect Joerg either.

I'm in the US and I just signed up for NNTP service from
individual.net. No problems during the signup except that that were
caused by my bad habit of reading the instructions only after
installation. Paid with Paypal.

Using traceroute at:
<https://traceroute-online.com>
Use: news.individual.net as a target host. My packets bounce around
from the US left coast, to the New York area. Then to Netherlands,
Sweden and end in Germany. Looks like they're using Linode (Akamai).
Ping looks about what I would expect from the distance.

Pinging news.individual.net [130.133.4.11] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 130.133.4.11: bytes=32 time=169ms TTL=25
However, traceroute shows 14 hops, 5 of which are in Sweden.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> writes:

> On Fri, 23 Feb 2024 13:16:30 -0500, Radey Shouman
> <shouman@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> writes:
>>
>>> On 2/21/2024 3:47 PM, Joerg wrote:
>>>> On 2/21/24 1:26 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
>>>>> Well, it seems possible this all ends tomorrow?
>>>>
>>>> Nah. You of all people would know, it comes like a thief in the
>>>> night (1 Thessalonians 5:2)
>>>> :-)
>>>>
>>>>>  ... I have eternal sept but use google now. Will have to see.
>>>>
>>>> I would never use Google for that. Ever. A very long time ago I
>>>> signed up with these guys:
>>>> http://news.individual.net/index.php
>>>> Never looked back. It's cheap, 10 Euros/year and to avoid
>>>> the yearly hassle I pay five years ahead. That way I have someone to
>>>> talk to if something fritzes up. But it never does.
>>>>
>>>
>>> +1 to any not-Gurgle product!
>
>>I used to use and like them until they told me that they could no longer
>>serve US customers. I don't remember the actual regulatory issue. Not
>>sure why it does not affect Joerg either.
>
> I'm in the US and I just signed up for NNTP service from
> individual.net. No problems during the signup except that that were
> caused by my bad habit of reading the instructions only after
> installation. Paid with Paypal.
>
> Using traceroute at:
> <https://traceroute-online.com>
> Use: news.individual.net as a target host. My packets bounce around
> from the US left coast, to the New York area. Then to Netherlands,
> Sweden and end in Germany. Looks like they're using Linode (Akamai).
> Ping looks about what I would expect from the distance.
>
> Pinging news.individual.net [130.133.4.11] with 32 bytes of data:
> Reply from 130.133.4.11: bytes=32 time=169ms TTL=25
> However, traceroute shows 14 hops, 5 of which are in Sweden.

I looked it up -- they used to use a payment service called clickandbuy,
which, in 2016, sent me notice that they weren't going to do that
anymore. I misremembered it as being a US-specific problem. At the
time I did not see an alternate means of payment for
news.individual.net, so I moved to eternal-september, which does not
require payment.

On 2/26/24 2:06 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
> Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> writes:
>
>> On Fri, 23 Feb 2024 13:16:30 -0500, Radey Shouman
>> <shouman@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>> AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> writes:
>>>
>>>> On 2/21/2024 3:47 PM, Joerg wrote:
>>>>> On 2/21/24 1:26 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
>>>>>> Well, it seems possible this all ends tomorrow?
>>>>>
>>>>> Nah. You of all people would know, it comes like a thief in the
>>>>> night (1 Thessalonians 5:2)
>>>>> :-)
>>>>>
>>>>>>  ... I have eternal sept but use google now. Will have to see.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would never use Google for that. Ever. A very long time ago I
>>>>> signed up with these guys:
>>>>> http://news.individual.net/index.php
>>>>> Never looked back. It's cheap, 10 Euros/year and to avoid
>>>>> the yearly hassle I pay five years ahead. That way I have someone to
>>>>> talk to if something fritzes up. But it never does.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> +1 to any not-Gurgle product!
>>
>>> I used to use and like them until they told me that they could no longer
>>> serve US customers. I don't remember the actual regulatory issue. Not
>>> sure why it does not affect Joerg either.
>>
>> I'm in the US and I just signed up for NNTP service from
>> individual.net. No problems during the signup except that that were
>> caused by my bad habit of reading the instructions only after
>> installation. Paid with Paypal.
>>
>> Using traceroute at:
>> <https://traceroute-online.com>
>> Use: news.individual.net as a target host. My packets bounce around
>> from the US left coast, to the New York area. Then to Netherlands,
>> Sweden and end in Germany. Looks like they're using Linode (Akamai).
>> Ping looks about what I would expect from the distance.
>>
>> Pinging news.individual.net [130.133.4.11] with 32 bytes of data:
>> Reply from 130.133.4.11: bytes=32 time=169ms TTL=25
>> However, traceroute shows 14 hops, 5 of which are in Sweden.
>
> I looked it up -- they used to use a payment service called clickandbuy,
> which, in 2016, sent me notice that they weren't going to do that
> anymore. I misremembered it as being a US-specific problem. At the
> time I did not see an alternate means of payment for
> news.individual.net, so I moved to eternal-september, which does not
> require payment.
>

There are many ways to pay. I use Wise (formerly Transferwise). They
aren't that great anymore, too much nonsensical validation hassle, but
so far it works, also for other foreign payment recipients.

Sending a payment to Ukraine (to buy a morse key made there), that was a
major hassle. They even wanted the birth date of the business owner over
there. Luckily that wasn't a woman, else that question would have been
rather uncomfortable.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 2/26/2024 5:06 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
>
> I looked it up -- they used to use a payment service called clickandbuy,
> which, in 2016, sent me notice that they weren't going to do that
> anymore. I misremembered it as being a US-specific problem. At the
> time I did not see an alternate means of payment for
> news.individual.net, so I moved to eternal-september, which does not
> require payment.

I'm a bit curious how Eternal September pays its bills. What's it's
income stream? Anybody know?

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 2/26/2024 7:34 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 2/26/2024 5:06 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
>>
>> I looked it up -- they used to use a payment service
>> called clickandbuy,
>> which, in 2016, sent me notice that they weren't going to
>> do that
>> anymore.  I misremembered it as being a US-specific
>> problem.  At the
>> time I did not see an alternate means of payment for
>> news.individual.net, so I moved to eternal-september,
>> which does not
>> require payment.
>
> I'm a bit curious how Eternal September pays its bills.
> What's it's income stream? Anybody know?
>

There is a 'PayPal Donate' (old style graphic) button on
their page
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> writes:

> On 2/26/2024 7:34 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 2/26/2024 5:06 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
>>>
>>> I looked it up -- they used to use a payment service called
>>> clickandbuy,
>>> which, in 2016, sent me notice that they weren't going to do that
>>> anymore.  I misremembered it as being a US-specific problem.  At
>>> the
>>> time I did not see an alternate means of payment for
>>> news.individual.net, so I moved to eternal-september, which does
>>> not
>>> require payment.
>> I'm a bit curious how Eternal September pays its bills.
>> What's it's income stream? Anybody know?
>>
>
> There is a 'PayPal Donate' (old style graphic) button on their page

Years ago, when Usenet jobs groups were actually used for seeking work
or workers, I worked at a company that wanted to do that. We'll just
ask our ISP for a feed, we thought (almost all ISPs offered one). How
hard could it be?

It was a pain in the ass. The feed was a firehose of text, most of
which we really didn't want. There were a million little configuration
things we got wrong. Disks filled up. Whenever our peer server fell
over, someone at the ISP would immediately want to know how many minutes
it might take us to fix it.

Having more productive, or at least more entertaining, work to do, we
bailed on the NNTP feed and went back to lusing NNTP clients to browse
the news.