The EVO bottom bracket is prsently out for delievery but this being Monday it probably won't arrive until late this afternoon. But I have all of the special tools to install it in minutes and do Cull Canyon tomorrow.

The only possible problem will be the fit. Last time the reach was a little long and I tried to correct that with the saddle position. I have to admit that I don't understand fit: the Basso fits much better than my other bikes but the onlt obvious difference is the reach. Following the Youtube directions for fit gives me very large differences even in saddle height so I certainly no longer believe in those fit methods beyond as a starting point for your own comfort.

I will say that the saddles with the slit center are pretty much a must for men. I was using a EC90 but you have to be riding a lot so that your butt gets very hard before they work. The Basso came with a Flite saddle which is heavily padded and that was comfortable but missing the center opening. But Flites Gel saddles have a spit. So I bought one for the Allez and it is very comfortable except perhaps a little too bouncy. I just purchased another for the Fondriest when all of the parts come in for changing ober to the Shimano parts rather than Campagnolo. When the only way to get the replacement reel is to purchase an entire lever, that finished me with Campagnolo. I believe that is going to happen to many people. Shimano parts aren't that easy to come by, but certainly easier than Campy. I wonder if eventually Campy will be remembered only for the invention of the derailleur and not as a large company.

Tom Kunich <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
> The EVO bottom bracket is prsently out for delievery but this being
> Monday it probably won't arrive until late this afternoon. But I have all
> of the special tools to install it in minutes and do Cull Canyon tomorrow.
>
> The only possible problem will be the fit. Last time the reach was a
> little long and I tried to correct that with the saddle position. I have
> to admit that I don't understand fit: the Basso fits much better than my
> other bikes but the onlt obvious difference is the reach. Following the
> Youtube directions for fit gives me very large differences even in saddle
> height so I certainly no longer believe in those fit methods beyond as a
> starting point for your own comfort.
>
> I will say that the saddles with the slit center are pretty much a must
> for men. I was using a EC90 but you have to be riding a lot so that your
> butt gets very hard before they work. The Basso came with a Flite saddle
> which is heavily padded and that was comfortable but missing the center
> opening. But Flites Gel saddles have a spit. So I bought one for the
> Allez and it is very comfortable except perhaps a little too bouncy. I
> just purchased another for the Fondriest when all of the parts come in
> for changing ober to the Shimano parts rather than Campagnolo. When the
> only way to get the replacement reel is to purchase an entire lever, that
> finished me with Campagnolo. I believe that is going to happen to many
> people. Shimano parts aren't that easy to come by, but certainly easier
> than Campy. I wonder if eventually Campy will be remembered only for the
> invention of the derailleur and not as a large company.
>

They didn’t invent the Derailleur not by a long shot, was some working
designs at the turn of the 20th century, then Simplex introduced cable
rather than rod design in followed by Suntour and the introduction of the
slant-parallelogram and Shimano with indexed shifting are the three
revolution designs.

Campagnolo absolutely did innovation notably the quick release hub, but not
the derailleur some evolution of the design as did others but arguably its
Simplex/Suntour who made the derailleur as we know it.

Roger Merriman

On Mon Mar 11 17:26:06 2024 Roger Merriman wrote:
> Tom Kunich <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > The EVO bottom bracket is prsently out for delievery but this being
> > Monday it probably won't arrive until late this afternoon. But I have all
> > of the special tools to install it in minutes and do Cull Canyon tomorrow.
> >
> > The only possible problem will be the fit. Last time the reach was a
> > little long and I tried to correct that with the saddle position. I have
> > to admit that I don't understand fit: the Basso fits much better than my
> > other bikes but the onlt obvious difference is the reach. Following the
> > Youtube directions for fit gives me very large differences even in saddle
> > height so I certainly no longer believe in those fit methods beyond as a
> > starting point for your own comfort.
> >
> > I will say that the saddles with the slit center are pretty much a must
> > for men. I was using a EC90 but you have to be riding a lot so that your
> > butt gets very hard before they work. The Basso came with a Flite saddle
> > which is heavily padded and that was comfortable but missing the center
> > opening. But Flites Gel saddles have a spit. So I bought one for the
> > Allez and it is very comfortable except perhaps a little too bouncy. I
> > just purchased another for the Fondriest when all of the parts come in
> > for changing ober to the Shimano parts rather than Campagnolo. When the
> > only way to get the replacement reel is to purchase an entire lever, that
> > finished me with Campagnolo. I believe that is going to happen to many
> > people. Shimano parts aren't that easy to come by, but certainly easier
> > than Campy. I wonder if eventually Campy will be remembered only for the
> > invention of the derailleur and not as a large company.
> >
>
> They didn?t invent the Derailleur not by a long shot, was some working
> designs at the turn of the 20th century, then Simplex introduced cable
> rather than rod design in followed by Suntour and the introduction of the
> slant-parallelogram and Shimano with indexed shifting are the three
> revolution designs.
>
> Campagnolo absolutely did innovation notably the quick release hub, but not
> the derailleur some evolution of the design as did others but arguably its
> Simplex/Suntour who made the derailleur as we know it.
>
> Roger Merriman
>

I haed a Simplex derailleur thar looked like a campy but it didn't shift reliably

On 3/11/2024 12:35 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Mon Mar 11 17:26:06 2024 Roger Merriman wrote:
>> Tom Kunich <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> The EVO bottom bracket is prsently out for delievery but this being
>>> Monday it probably won't arrive until late this afternoon. But I have all
>>> of the special tools to install it in minutes and do Cull Canyon tomorrow.
>>>
>>> The only possible problem will be the fit. Last time the reach was a
>>> little long and I tried to correct that with the saddle position. I have
>>> to admit that I don't understand fit: the Basso fits much better than my
>>> other bikes but the onlt obvious difference is the reach. Following the
>>> Youtube directions for fit gives me very large differences even in saddle
>>> height so I certainly no longer believe in those fit methods beyond as a
>>> starting point for your own comfort.
>>>
>>> I will say that the saddles with the slit center are pretty much a must
>>> for men. I was using a EC90 but you have to be riding a lot so that your
>>> butt gets very hard before they work. The Basso came with a Flite saddle
>>> which is heavily padded and that was comfortable but missing the center
>>> opening. But Flites Gel saddles have a spit. So I bought one for the
>>> Allez and it is very comfortable except perhaps a little too bouncy. I
>>> just purchased another for the Fondriest when all of the parts come in
>>> for changing ober to the Shimano parts rather than Campagnolo. When the
>>> only way to get the replacement reel is to purchase an entire lever, that
>>> finished me with Campagnolo. I believe that is going to happen to many
>>> people. Shimano parts aren't that easy to come by, but certainly easier
>>> than Campy. I wonder if eventually Campy will be remembered only for the
>>> invention of the derailleur and not as a large company.
>>>
>>
>> They didn?t invent the Derailleur not by a long shot, was some working
>> designs at the turn of the 20th century, then Simplex introduced cable
>> rather than rod design in followed by Suntour and the introduction of the
>> slant-parallelogram and Shimano with indexed shifting are the three
>> revolution designs.
>>
>> Campagnolo absolutely did innovation notably the quick release hub, but not
>> the derailleur some evolution of the design as did others but arguably its
>> Simplex/Suntour who made the derailleur as we know it.
>>
>> Roger Merriman
>>
>
>
>
>
> I haed a Simplex derailleur thar looked like a campy but it didn't shift reliably

Depending on the years/model of each, for most examples the
Simplex is the superior product. Campagnolo made great
changes in 1992 but by then Simplex was no more.
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> On 3/11/2024 12:35 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> On Mon Mar 11 17:26:06 2024 Roger Merriman wrote:
>>> Tom Kunich <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> The EVO bottom bracket is prsently out for delievery but this being
>>>> Monday it probably won't arrive until late this afternoon. But I have all
>>>> of the special tools to install it in minutes and do Cull Canyon tomorrow.
>>>>
>>>> The only possible problem will be the fit. Last time the reach was a
>>>> little long and I tried to correct that with the saddle position. I have
>>>> to admit that I don't understand fit: the Basso fits much better than my
>>>> other bikes but the onlt obvious difference is the reach. Following the
>>>> Youtube directions for fit gives me very large differences even in saddle
>>>> height so I certainly no longer believe in those fit methods beyond as a
>>>> starting point for your own comfort.
>>>>
>>>> I will say that the saddles with the slit center are pretty much a must
>>>> for men. I was using a EC90 but you have to be riding a lot so that your
>>>> butt gets very hard before they work. The Basso came with a Flite saddle
>>>> which is heavily padded and that was comfortable but missing the center
>>>> opening. But Flites Gel saddles have a spit. So I bought one for the
>>>> Allez and it is very comfortable except perhaps a little too bouncy. I
>>>> just purchased another for the Fondriest when all of the parts come in
>>>> for changing ober to the Shimano parts rather than Campagnolo. When the
>>>> only way to get the replacement reel is to purchase an entire lever, that
>>>> finished me with Campagnolo. I believe that is going to happen to many
>>>> people. Shimano parts aren't that easy to come by, but certainly easier
>>>> than Campy. I wonder if eventually Campy will be remembered only for the
>>>> invention of the derailleur and not as a large company.
>>>>
>>>
>>> They didn?t invent the Derailleur not by a long shot, was some working
>>> designs at the turn of the 20th century, then Simplex introduced cable
>>> rather than rod design in followed by Suntour and the introduction of the
>>> slant-parallelogram and Shimano with indexed shifting are the three
>>> revolution designs.
>>>
>>> Campagnolo absolutely did innovation notably the quick release hub, but not
>>> the derailleur some evolution of the design as did others but arguably its
>>> Simplex/Suntour who made the derailleur as we know it.
>>>
>>> Roger Merriman
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I haed a Simplex derailleur thar looked like a campy but it didn't shift reliably
>
> Depending on the years/model of each, for most examples the
> Simplex is the superior product. Campagnolo made great
> changes in 1992 but by then Simplex was no more.

The perils of an early developer ie others take your ideas and make it more
profitable, mind you they lasted quite a few decades, ie 1928-1992.

Ie older than some of the big technology companies or EV companies for
example by some degree.

Roger Merriman

On Mon Mar 11 14:08:11 2024 AMuzi wrote:
> On 3/11/2024 12:35 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Mon Mar 11 17:26:06 2024 Roger Merriman wrote:
> >> Tom Kunich <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>> The EVO bottom bracket is prsently out for delievery but this being
> >>> Monday it probably won't arrive until late this afternoon. But I have all
> >>> of the special tools to install it in minutes and do Cull Canyon tomorrow.
> >>>
> >>> The only possible problem will be the fit. Last time the reach was a
> >>> little long and I tried to correct that with the saddle position. I have
> >>> to admit that I don't understand fit: the Basso fits much better than my
> >>> other bikes but the onlt obvious difference is the reach. Following the
> >>> Youtube directions for fit gives me very large differences even in saddle
> >>> height so I certainly no longer believe in those fit methods beyond as a
> >>> starting point for your own comfort.
> >>>
> >>> I will say that the saddles with the slit center are pretty much a must
> >>> for men. I was using a EC90 but you have to be riding a lot so that your
> >>> butt gets very hard before they work. The Basso came with a Flite saddle
> >>> which is heavily padded and that was comfortable but missing the center
> >>> opening. But Flites Gel saddles have a spit. So I bought one for the
> >>> Allez and it is very comfortable except perhaps a little too bouncy. I
> >>> just purchased another for the Fondriest when all of the parts come in
> >>> for changing ober to the Shimano parts rather than Campagnolo. When the
> >>> only way to get the replacement reel is to purchase an entire lever, that
> >>> finished me with Campagnolo. I believe that is going to happen to many
> >>> people. Shimano parts aren't that easy to come by, but certainly easier
> >>> than Campy. I wonder if eventually Campy will be remembered only for the
> >>> invention of the derailleur and not as a large company.
> >>>
> >>
> >> They didn?t invent the Derailleur not by a long shot, was some working
> >> designs at the turn of the 20th century, then Simplex introduced cable
> >> rather than rod design in followed by Suntour and the introduction of the
> >> slant-parallelogram and Shimano with indexed shifting are the three
> >> revolution designs.
> >>
> >> Campagnolo absolutely did innovation notably the quick release hub, but not
> >> the derailleur some evolution of the design as did others but arguably its
> >> Simplex/Suntour who made the derailleur as we know it.
> >>
> >> Roger Merriman
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I haed a Simplex derailleur thar looked like a campy but it didn't shift reliably
>
> Depending on the years/model of each, for most examples the
> Simplex is the superior product. Campagnolo made great
> changes in 1992 but by then Simplex was no more.
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> am@yellowjersey.org
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>

I had a Campy and a Simplex that looked identical except for the name and the Campy shifted well and the Simplex not.

Tom Kunich <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Mon Mar 11 14:08:11 2024 AMuzi wrote:
>> On 3/11/2024 12:35 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> On Mon Mar 11 17:26:06 2024 Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>> Tom Kunich <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>> The EVO bottom bracket is prsently out for delievery but this being
>>>>> Monday it probably won't arrive until late this afternoon. But I have all
>>>>> of the special tools to install it in minutes and do Cull Canyon tomorrow.
>>>>>
>>>>> The only possible problem will be the fit. Last time the reach was a
>>>>> little long and I tried to correct that with the saddle position. I have
>>>>> to admit that I don't understand fit: the Basso fits much better than my
>>>>> other bikes but the onlt obvious difference is the reach. Following the
>>>>> Youtube directions for fit gives me very large differences even in saddle
>>>>> height so I certainly no longer believe in those fit methods beyond as a
>>>>> starting point for your own comfort.
>>>>>
>>>>> I will say that the saddles with the slit center are pretty much a must
>>>>> for men. I was using a EC90 but you have to be riding a lot so that your
>>>>> butt gets very hard before they work. The Basso came with a Flite saddle
>>>>> which is heavily padded and that was comfortable but missing the center
>>>>> opening. But Flites Gel saddles have a spit. So I bought one for the
>>>>> Allez and it is very comfortable except perhaps a little too bouncy. I
>>>>> just purchased another for the Fondriest when all of the parts come in
>>>>> for changing ober to the Shimano parts rather than Campagnolo. When the
>>>>> only way to get the replacement reel is to purchase an entire lever, that
>>>>> finished me with Campagnolo. I believe that is going to happen to many
>>>>> people. Shimano parts aren't that easy to come by, but certainly easier
>>>>> than Campy. I wonder if eventually Campy will be remembered only for the
>>>>> invention of the derailleur and not as a large company.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> They didn?t invent the Derailleur not by a long shot, was some working
>>>> designs at the turn of the 20th century, then Simplex introduced cable
>>>> rather than rod design in followed by Suntour and the introduction of the
>>>> slant-parallelogram and Shimano with indexed shifting are the three
>>>> revolution designs.
>>>>
>>>> Campagnolo absolutely did innovation notably the quick release hub, but not
>>>> the derailleur some evolution of the design as did others but arguably its
>>>> Simplex/Suntour who made the derailleur as we know it.
>>>>
>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I haed a Simplex derailleur thar looked like a campy but it didn't shift reliably
>>
>> Depending on the years/model of each, for most examples the
>> Simplex is the superior product. Campagnolo made great
>> changes in 1992 but by then Simplex was no more.
>> --
>> Andrew Muzi
>> am@yellowjersey.org
>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> I had a Campy and a Simplex that looked identical except for the name and
> the Campy shifted well and the Simplex not.
>

I had a quite a old bike with Suntour groupset years back, bar being a bit
sluggish almost certainly needed a new spring was fine, though I upgraded
to more modern group set admittedly with down tube shifters, which gave me
faster shifts and slightly better range.

Roger Merriman

On 3/12/2024 8:22 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Mon Mar 11 14:08:11 2024 AMuzi wrote:
>> On 3/11/2024 12:35 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> On Mon Mar 11 17:26:06 2024 Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>> Tom Kunich <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>> The EVO bottom bracket is prsently out for delievery but this being
>>>>> Monday it probably won't arrive until late this afternoon. But I have all
>>>>> of the special tools to install it in minutes and do Cull Canyon tomorrow.
>>>>>
>>>>> The only possible problem will be the fit. Last time the reach was a
>>>>> little long and I tried to correct that with the saddle position. I have
>>>>> to admit that I don't understand fit: the Basso fits much better than my
>>>>> other bikes but the onlt obvious difference is the reach. Following the
>>>>> Youtube directions for fit gives me very large differences even in saddle
>>>>> height so I certainly no longer believe in those fit methods beyond as a
>>>>> starting point for your own comfort.
>>>>>
>>>>> I will say that the saddles with the slit center are pretty much a must
>>>>> for men. I was using a EC90 but you have to be riding a lot so that your
>>>>> butt gets very hard before they work. The Basso came with a Flite saddle
>>>>> which is heavily padded and that was comfortable but missing the center
>>>>> opening. But Flites Gel saddles have a spit. So I bought one for the
>>>>> Allez and it is very comfortable except perhaps a little too bouncy. I
>>>>> just purchased another for the Fondriest when all of the parts come in
>>>>> for changing ober to the Shimano parts rather than Campagnolo. When the
>>>>> only way to get the replacement reel is to purchase an entire lever, that
>>>>> finished me with Campagnolo. I believe that is going to happen to many
>>>>> people. Shimano parts aren't that easy to come by, but certainly easier
>>>>> than Campy. I wonder if eventually Campy will be remembered only for the
>>>>> invention of the derailleur and not as a large company.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> They didn?t invent the Derailleur not by a long shot, was some working
>>>> designs at the turn of the 20th century, then Simplex introduced cable
>>>> rather than rod design in followed by Suntour and the introduction of the
>>>> slant-parallelogram and Shimano with indexed shifting are the three
>>>> revolution designs.
>>>>
>>>> Campagnolo absolutely did innovation notably the quick release hub, but not
>>>> the derailleur some evolution of the design as did others but arguably its
>>>> Simplex/Suntour who made the derailleur as we know it.
>>>>
>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I haed a Simplex derailleur thar looked like a campy but it didn't shift reliably
>>
>> Depending on the years/model of each, for most examples the
>> Simplex is the superior product. Campagnolo made great
>> changes in 1992 but by then Simplex was no more.
>
>
>
>
>
> I had a Campy and a Simplex that looked identical except for the name and the Campy shifted well and the Simplex not.

Without comment on any given installation/setup, from an
engineering point of view Simplex dual pivot spring designs
and more advanced cage shapes from the 1950s through the end
of the 1980s (and of Simplex) are clearly superior to
Campagnolo's offerings across that period. Despite some
half-assed efforts (Gran Turismo, Rally series) Campagnolo
made no successful snappy shifting rears until the Ergo era.

Did they shift? Yes. Did they shift well? Not as compared to
concurrent Simplex or to several Maeda and Shimano products.

As my old assembly manager often noted about design,
function and durability, "Campagnolo doesn't shift. But it
doesn't shift forever." Smart girl.

--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971