Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On 4/24/2024 10:19 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>> On 4/24/2024 4:29 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>> On 4/23/2024 7:36 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> ... I'm pretty sure I still have the Huret Svelto derailleur that was
>>>>>>> original equipment on my first ever ten speed - back when "ten speed"
>>>>>>> meant 5x2.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> My first road bike was that as well it was old at that point, Suntour in
>>>>>> this case, I did upgrade it to modern 10s mainly it was massively over
>>>>>> geared particularly for someone who rides around Wales from time to time!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But old derailleurs seem to last, seem to remember the shifting was about
>>>>>> the same both systems using down tube shifters, though rear was indexed for
>>>>>> the modern one, but front was left friction.
>>>>>
>>>>> I rode with that Svelto for a few years. One of my first little bike
>>>>> splurges (when we had very little extra money) was to change to SunTour
>>>>> rear derailleurs. The difference in shifting was enormous. And the
>>>>> SunTours also allowed bigger rear cogs, especially helpful for my wife.
>>>>>
>>>>> I suspect the Svelto would now shift as well as it ever did. I do think
>>>>> old derailleurs last a long time.
>>>>>
>>>> If the spring has got tired maybe be a bit slower, I did have one that for
>>>> that reason ie it shifted but really quite slowly, that I replaced it with
>>>> a new derailleur 9s being so cheap.
>>>>
>>>> But yes they seem to last and for road bikes not much technology
>>>> advancement over last few decades, different to MTB/Gravel which have
>>>> clutches and what not.
>>>>
>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>
>>>
>>> In theory, calculating spring degradation over cycles is
>>> extremely complex but in practice, within a human lifetime,
>>> derailleur springs do not noticeably degrade*.
>>>
>>> Pivots can become encrusted, rusty, worn, bent and broken
>>> such that the spring can no longer move them as smartly but
>>> that's not a change in the spring itself.
>>>
>>> *else my vintage automatic Swiss watches would have died
>>> long ago after many millions of cycles. The 1960 Rado on my
>>> wrist today keeps perfect time.
>>
>> The rear mech 9s Deore on the old MTB did become slow, was perfectly in
>> tune etc just slow to respond it had though done 10 years climbing the
>> Welsh hills and what not before retirement to plodding across West London.
>>
>> Certainly a new mech even of a lower grade seemed to bring the shifting
>> back to normal.
>>
>> Roger Merriman
>>
>
> I'm thinking that isn't the spring as much as it is the pivots

Maybe my memory was spring and that it had been cleaned up, but since a
replacement part was so cheap, didn’t investigate further.

It’s getting on to 10 years its self since I replaced the mech.

Roger Merriman

On 4/24/2024 9:33 AM, Zen Cycle wrote:
> On 4/24/2024 10:19 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>> On 4/24/2024 4:29 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>> On 4/23/2024 7:36 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> ... I'm pretty sure I still have the Huret Svelto
>>>>>>> derailleur that was
>>>>>>> original equipment on my first ever ten speed - back
>>>>>>> when "ten speed"
>>>>>>> meant 5x2.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> My first road bike was that as well it was old at that
>>>>>> point, Suntour in
>>>>>> this case, I did upgrade it to modern 10s mainly it
>>>>>> was massively over
>>>>>> geared particularly for someone who rides around Wales
>>>>>> from time to time!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But old derailleurs seem to last, seem to remember the
>>>>>> shifting was about
>>>>>> the same both systems using down tube shifters, though
>>>>>> rear was indexed for
>>>>>> the modern one, but front was left friction.
>>>>>
>>>>> I rode with that Svelto for a few years. One of my
>>>>> first little bike
>>>>> splurges (when we had very little extra money) was to
>>>>> change to SunTour
>>>>> rear derailleurs. The difference in shifting was
>>>>> enormous. And the
>>>>> SunTours also allowed bigger rear cogs, especially
>>>>> helpful for my wife.
>>>>>
>>>>> I suspect the Svelto would now shift as well as it ever
>>>>> did. I do think
>>>>> old derailleurs last a long time.
>>>>>
>>>> If the spring has got tired maybe be a bit slower, I did
>>>> have one that for
>>>> that reason ie it shifted but really quite slowly, that
>>>> I replaced it with
>>>> a new derailleur 9s being so cheap.
>>>>
>>>> But yes they seem to last and for road bikes not much
>>>> technology
>>>> advancement over last few decades, different to
>>>> MTB/Gravel which have
>>>> clutches and what not.
>>>>
>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>
>>>
>>> In theory, calculating spring degradation over cycles is
>>> extremely complex but in practice, within a human lifetime,
>>> derailleur springs do not noticeably degrade*.
>>>
>>> Pivots can become encrusted, rusty, worn, bent and broken
>>> such that the spring can no longer move them as smartly but
>>> that's not a change in the spring itself.
>>>
>>> *else my vintage automatic Swiss watches would have died
>>> long ago after many millions of cycles. The 1960 Rado on my
>>> wrist today keeps perfect time.
>>
>> The rear mech 9s Deore on the old MTB did become slow, was
>> perfectly in
>> tune etc just slow to respond it had though done 10 years
>> climbing the
>> Welsh hills and what not before retirement to plodding
>> across West London.
>>
>> Certainly a new mech even of a lower grade seemed to bring
>> the shifting
>> back to normal.
>>
>> Roger Merriman
>>
>
> I'm thinking that isn't the spring as much as it is the pivots

Exactly. Springs do not 'wear out' or 'go soft' when used
within designed load/range limits to any measurable degree.
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Tue Apr 23 22:25:25 2024 Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 4/23/2024 6:46 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Tue Apr 23 14:44:48 2024 Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >> On 4/23/2024 10:55 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>> On Mon Apr 22 22:15:39 2024 Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >>>> On 4/22/2024 2:05 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I had forgotten that I had this set of levers but I have a set of like new 7800 levers that I got from the Ukraine and put them someplace so safe that I can't remember where that is.
> >>>>
> >>>> Tom, you've frequently talked about misplaced parts, tools, etc. Here's
> >>>> a serious tip.
> >>>>
> >>>> You have cats, right? Buy the cat litter that comes in big cardboard boxes.
> >>>>
> >>>> When empty, cut the box down so it fits on a shelf. Label the box
> >>>> "Shifters." Label the next box "Derailleurs." Label a third box
> >>>> "Brakes." Label a fourth box "Pedals." Do as many boxes as necessary.
> >>>>
> >>>> Develop the habit of putting the components into the proper box, and
> >>>> nowhere else. If necessary, label their details with tape.
> >>>>
> >>>> Use the same philosophy for workshop tools. A place for everything, and
> >>>> everything in its place.
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> - Frank Krygowski
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Frank, you've told us that you don't keep any spare parts around because you can buy the things you need when youu need them.
> >>
> >> No, Tom, I absolutely NEVER said anything like that! I have bike parts
> >> stored away that are decades old, and some "extra" stuff that I bought
> >> new but have not yet used.
> >>
> >> Heck, I'm pretty sure I still have the Huret Svelto derailleur that was
> >> original equipment on my first ever ten speed - back when "ten speed"
> >> meant 5x2.
> >>
> >> You need to stop trusting your memory, or your imagination, or whatever.
> >> Stop disputing what you pretend I said. Deal with what I've actually said.
> >>
> >> --
> >> - Frank Krygowski
> >
> >
> >
> > Anyone that brages about having a Huret derailleur is hardly someone to give advice on storing things away
>
> I didn't brag (or "brage") about it. I mentioned I still have it. Sheesh!
>
> Let's note that I tried to give you some good, simple, fairly obvious
> advice on how to stop misplacing your stuff.
>
> A minimally normal person might have said "Hmm. Maybe I should try
> that." Instead, you lie about statements you pretend I made, and add
> snide comments.
>
> Fine! Keep losing your bike parts, your tools, and whatever remains of
> your mind.
>
> Tom, you're a mental and social wreck.
>
> --
> - Frank Krygowski
>

Frank, all you did was to say that you have a better way and you don't. Catfood bags? Really?

On Wed Apr 24 05:46:30 2024 Catrike Ryder wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Apr 2024 22:25:25 -0400, Frank Krygowski
> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >Let's note that I tried to give you some good, simple, fairly obvious
> >advice on how to stop misplacing your stuff.
> >
> >A minimally normal person might have said "Hmm. Maybe I should try
> >that." Instead, you lie about statements you pretend I made, and add
> >snide comments.
> >
> >Fine! Keep losing your bike parts, your tools, and whatever remains of
> >your mind.
>
>
> Uunsolicited advice is often ignored, so to throw a little hissy fit
> when that occurs seems a bit extreme.

Particularly when the unsolicited advice is so silly.

On Wed Apr 24 10:33:47 2024 Zen Cycle wrote:
> On 4/24/2024 10:19 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
> > AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >> On 4/24/2024 4:29 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
> >>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >>>> On 4/23/2024 7:36 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
> >>>>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >>>>>> ... I'm pretty sure I still have the Huret Svelto derailleur that was
> >>>>>> original equipment on my first ever ten speed - back when "ten speed"
> >>>>>> meant 5x2.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> My first road bike was that as well it was old at that point, Suntour in
> >>>>> this case, I did upgrade it to modern 10s mainly it was massively over
> >>>>> geared particularly for someone who rides around Wales from time to time!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> But old derailleurs seem to last, seem to remember the shifting was about
> >>>>> the same both systems using down tube shifters, though rear was indexed for
> >>>>> the modern one, but front was left friction.
> >>>>
> >>>> I rode with that Svelto for a few years. One of my first little bike
> >>>> splurges (when we had very little extra money) was to change to SunTour
> >>>> rear derailleurs. The difference in shifting was enormous. And the
> >>>> SunTours also allowed bigger rear cogs, especially helpful for my wife.
> >>>>
> >>>> I suspect the Svelto would now shift as well as it ever did. I do think
> >>>> old derailleurs last a long time.
> >>>>
> >>> If the spring has got tired maybe be a bit slower, I did have one that for
> >>> that reason ie it shifted but really quite slowly, that I replaced it with
> >>> a new derailleur 9s being so cheap.
> >>>
> >>> But yes they seem to last and for road bikes not much technology
> >>> advancement over last few decades, different to MTB/Gravel which have
> >>> clutches and what not.
> >>>
> >>> Roger Merriman
> >>>
> >>
> >> In theory, calculating spring degradation over cycles is
> >> extremely complex but in practice, within a human lifetime,
> >> derailleur springs do not noticeably degrade*.
> >>
> >> Pivots can become encrusted, rusty, worn, bent and broken
> >> such that the spring can no longer move them as smartly but
> >> that's not a change in the spring itself.
> >>
> >> *else my vintage automatic Swiss watches would have died
> >> long ago after many millions of cycles. The 1960 Rado on my
> >> wrist today keeps perfect time.
> >
> > The rear mech 9s Deore on the old MTB did become slow, was perfectly in
> > tune etc just slow to respond it had though done 10 years climbing the
> > Welsh hills and what not before retirement to plodding across West London.
> >
> > Certainly a new mech even of a lower grade seemed to bring the shifting
> > back to normal.
> >
> > Roger Merriman
> >
>
> I'm thinking that isn't the spring as much as it is the pivots

That sounds more likely to me.

On Wed Apr 24 10:02:35 2024 AMuzi wrote:
> On 4/24/2024 9:33 AM, Zen Cycle wrote:
> > On 4/24/2024 10:19 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
> >> AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >>> On 4/24/2024 4:29 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
> >>>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >>>>> On 4/23/2024 7:36 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
> >>>>>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >>>>>>> ... I'm pretty sure I still have the Huret Svelto
> >>>>>>> derailleur that was
> >>>>>>> original equipment on my first ever ten speed - back
> >>>>>>> when "ten speed"
> >>>>>>> meant 5x2.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> My first road bike was that as well it was old at that
> >>>>>> point, Suntour in
> >>>>>> this case, I did upgrade it to modern 10s mainly it
> >>>>>> was massively over
> >>>>>> geared particularly for someone who rides around Wales
> >>>>>> from time to time!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> But old derailleurs seem to last, seem to remember the
> >>>>>> shifting was about
> >>>>>> the same both systems using down tube shifters, though
> >>>>>> rear was indexed for
> >>>>>> the modern one, but front was left friction.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I rode with that Svelto for a few years. One of my
> >>>>> first little bike
> >>>>> splurges (when we had very little extra money) was to
> >>>>> change to SunTour
> >>>>> rear derailleurs. The difference in shifting was
> >>>>> enormous. And the
> >>>>> SunTours also allowed bigger rear cogs, especially
> >>>>> helpful for my wife.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I suspect the Svelto would now shift as well as it ever
> >>>>> did. I do think
> >>>>> old derailleurs last a long time.
> >>>>>
> >>>> If the spring has got tired maybe be a bit slower, I did
> >>>> have one that for
> >>>> that reason ie it shifted but really quite slowly, that
> >>>> I replaced it with
> >>>> a new derailleur 9s being so cheap.
> >>>>
> >>>> But yes they seem to last and for road bikes not much
> >>>> technology
> >>>> advancement over last few decades, different to
> >>>> MTB/Gravel which have
> >>>> clutches and what not.
> >>>>
> >>>> Roger Merriman
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> In theory, calculating spring degradation over cycles is
> >>> extremely complex but in practice, within a human lifetime,
> >>> derailleur springs do not noticeably degrade*.
> >>>
> >>> Pivots can become encrusted, rusty, worn, bent and broken
> >>> such that the spring can no longer move them as smartly but
> >>> that's not a change in the spring itself.
> >>>
> >>> *else my vintage automatic Swiss watches would have died
> >>> long ago after many millions of cycles. The 1960 Rado on my
> >>> wrist today keeps perfect time.
> >>
> >> The rear mech 9s Deore on the old MTB did become slow, was
> >> perfectly in
> >> tune etc just slow to respond it had though done 10 years
> >> climbing the
> >> Welsh hills and what not before retirement to plodding
> >> across West London.
> >>
> >> Certainly a new mech even of a lower grade seemed to bring
> >> the shifting
> >> back to normal.
> >>
> >> Roger Merriman
> >>
> >
> > I'm thinking that isn't the spring as much as it is the pivots
>
> Exactly. Springs do not 'wear out' or 'go soft' when used
> within designed load/range limits to any measurable degree.
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> am@yellowjersey.org
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>

There was this theory that if you left your clip loaded in your automatic fully loaded that the spring would collapse and not feed properly. I asked my cop friend who has guns all over his house loaded so that he can get at them with a seconds notice and he said that he had never seen any failures to feed. And the spring in a clip is pretty flimsy.

On Wed Apr 24 14:06:19 2024 Roger Merriman wrote:
> Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
> > On Wed, 24 Apr 2024 09:29:24 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >>> On 4/23/2024 7:36 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
> >>>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >>>>> ... I'm pretty sure I still have the Huret Svelto derailleur that was
> >>>>> original equipment on my first ever ten speed - back when "ten speed"
> >>>>> meant 5x2.
> >>>>>
> >>>> My first road bike was that as well it was old at that point, Suntour in
> >>>> this case, I did upgrade it to modern 10s mainly it was massively over
> >>>> geared particularly for someone who rides around Wales from time to time!
> >>>>
> >>>> But old derailleurs seem to last, seem to remember the shifting was about
> >>>> the same both systems using down tube shifters, though rear was indexed for
> >>>> the modern one, but front was left friction.
> >>>
> >>> I rode with that Svelto for a few years. One of my first little bike
> >>> splurges (when we had very little extra money) was to change to SunTour
> >>> rear derailleurs. The difference in shifting was enormous. And the
> >>> SunTours also allowed bigger rear cogs, especially helpful for my wife.
> >>>
> >>> I suspect the Svelto would now shift as well as it ever did. I do think
> >>> old derailleurs last a long time.
> >>>
> >> If the spring has got tired maybe be a bit slower, I did have one that for
> >> that reason ie it shifted but really quite slowly, that I replaced it with
> >> a new derailleur 9s being so cheap.
> >>
> >> But yes they seem to last and for road bikes not much technology
> >> advancement over last few decades, different to MTB/Gravel which have
> >> clutches and what not.
> >>
> >> Roger Merriman
> >
> > and the pulleys do wear out.
> >
>
> Well yes and if one wants (I don?t) can get all sorts of oversized ones
> that will increase efficiency by some improbable amount.
>
> I just change them out when they look worn.
>
> Roger Merriman
>

The Chinese one;s normally have sealed bearings in them and don't wear out very much. The pulley teeth normally screw up first.

On 4/24/2024 11:51 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Wed Apr 24 10:02:35 2024 AMuzi wrote:
>> On 4/24/2024 9:33 AM, Zen Cycle wrote:
>>> On 4/24/2024 10:19 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>> AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>> On 4/24/2024 4:29 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 4/23/2024 7:36 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>>>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> ... I'm pretty sure I still have the Huret Svelto
>>>>>>>>> derailleur that was
>>>>>>>>> original equipment on my first ever ten speed - back
>>>>>>>>> when "ten speed"
>>>>>>>>> meant 5x2.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My first road bike was that as well it was old at that
>>>>>>>> point, Suntour in
>>>>>>>> this case, I did upgrade it to modern 10s mainly it
>>>>>>>> was massively over
>>>>>>>> geared particularly for someone who rides around Wales
>>>>>>>> from time to time!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But old derailleurs seem to last, seem to remember the
>>>>>>>> shifting was about
>>>>>>>> the same both systems using down tube shifters, though
>>>>>>>> rear was indexed for
>>>>>>>> the modern one, but front was left friction.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I rode with that Svelto for a few years. One of my
>>>>>>> first little bike
>>>>>>> splurges (when we had very little extra money) was to
>>>>>>> change to SunTour
>>>>>>> rear derailleurs. The difference in shifting was
>>>>>>> enormous. And the
>>>>>>> SunTours also allowed bigger rear cogs, especially
>>>>>>> helpful for my wife.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I suspect the Svelto would now shift as well as it ever
>>>>>>> did. I do think
>>>>>>> old derailleurs last a long time.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> If the spring has got tired maybe be a bit slower, I did
>>>>>> have one that for
>>>>>> that reason ie it shifted but really quite slowly, that
>>>>>> I replaced it with
>>>>>> a new derailleur 9s being so cheap.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But yes they seem to last and for road bikes not much
>>>>>> technology
>>>>>> advancement over last few decades, different to
>>>>>> MTB/Gravel which have
>>>>>> clutches and what not.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> In theory, calculating spring degradation over cycles is
>>>>> extremely complex but in practice, within a human lifetime,
>>>>> derailleur springs do not noticeably degrade*.
>>>>>
>>>>> Pivots can become encrusted, rusty, worn, bent and broken
>>>>> such that the spring can no longer move them as smartly but
>>>>> that's not a change in the spring itself.
>>>>>
>>>>> *else my vintage automatic Swiss watches would have died
>>>>> long ago after many millions of cycles. The 1960 Rado on my
>>>>> wrist today keeps perfect time.
>>>>
>>>> The rear mech 9s Deore on the old MTB did become slow, was
>>>> perfectly in
>>>> tune etc just slow to respond it had though done 10 years
>>>> climbing the
>>>> Welsh hills and what not before retirement to plodding
>>>> across West London.
>>>>
>>>> Certainly a new mech even of a lower grade seemed to bring
>>>> the shifting
>>>> back to normal.
>>>>
>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>
>>>
>>> I'm thinking that isn't the spring as much as it is the pivots
>>
>> Exactly. Springs do not 'wear out' or 'go soft' when used
>> within designed load/range limits to any measurable degree.

>
> There was this theory that if you left your clip loaded in your automatic fully loaded that the spring would collapse and not feed properly. I asked my cop friend who has guns all over his house loaded so that he can get at them with a seconds notice and he said that he had never seen any failures to feed. And the spring in a clip is pretty flimsy.

No different from a bicycle derailleur, a watch mainspring
or an engine's valve springs.

Are there spring manufacturing defect examples? Sure. Are
there design errors of material, gauge, temper? Absolutely.
But by their nature springs below yield do not 'get soft' in
any practical sense.

--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 4/24/2024 11:02 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 4/24/2024 9:33 AM, Zen Cycle wrote:
>> On 4/24/2024 10:19 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>> AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>> On 4/24/2024 4:29 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>> On 4/23/2024 7:36 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> ... I'm pretty sure I still have the Huret Svelto derailleur
>>>>>>>> that was
>>>>>>>> original equipment on my first ever ten speed - back when "ten
>>>>>>>> speed"
>>>>>>>> meant 5x2.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My first road bike was that as well it was old at that point,
>>>>>>> Suntour in
>>>>>>> this case, I did upgrade it to modern 10s mainly it was massively
>>>>>>> over
>>>>>>> geared particularly for someone who rides around Wales from time
>>>>>>> to time!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But old derailleurs seem to last, seem to remember the shifting
>>>>>>> was about
>>>>>>> the same both systems using down tube shifters, though rear was
>>>>>>> indexed for
>>>>>>> the modern one, but front was left friction.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I rode with that Svelto for a few years. One of my first little bike
>>>>>> splurges (when we had very little extra money) was to change to
>>>>>> SunTour
>>>>>> rear derailleurs. The difference in shifting was enormous. And the
>>>>>> SunTours also allowed bigger rear cogs, especially helpful for my
>>>>>> wife.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I suspect the Svelto would now shift as well as it ever did. I do
>>>>>> think
>>>>>> old derailleurs last a long time.
>>>>>>
>>>>> If the spring has got tired maybe be a bit slower, I did have one
>>>>> that for
>>>>> that reason ie it shifted but really quite slowly, that I replaced
>>>>> it with
>>>>> a new derailleur 9s being so cheap.
>>>>>
>>>>> But yes they seem to last and for road bikes not much technology
>>>>> advancement over last few decades, different to MTB/Gravel which have
>>>>> clutches and what not.
>>>>>
>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In theory, calculating spring degradation over cycles is
>>>> extremely complex but in practice, within a human lifetime,
>>>> derailleur springs do not noticeably degrade*.
>>>>
>>>> Pivots can become encrusted, rusty, worn, bent and broken
>>>> such that the spring can no longer move them as smartly but
>>>> that's not a change in the spring itself.
>>>>
>>>> *else my vintage automatic Swiss watches would have died
>>>> long ago after many millions of cycles. The 1960 Rado on my
>>>> wrist today keeps perfect time.
>>>
>>> The rear mech 9s Deore on the old MTB did become slow, was perfectly in
>>> tune etc just slow to respond it had though done 10 years climbing the
>>> Welsh hills and what not before retirement to plodding across West
>>> London.
>>>
>>> Certainly a new mech even of a lower grade seemed to bring the shifting
>>> back to normal.
>>>
>>> Roger Merriman
>>>
>>
>> I'm thinking that isn't the spring as much as it is the pivots
>
> Exactly. Springs do not 'wear out' or 'go soft' when used within
> designed load/range limits to any measurable degree.

I agree. And I'll note that I suspect any slowness (falsely) attributed
to spring weakening would occur on an upshift, to a smaller cog. That's
because the cable pulls it in the other (downshift) direction. If a
spring did weaken, downshifting would require less lever force. Probably
not detectable, though.

Besides derailleur pivots, other "slow shift" problems could come from
cable drag, especially on bikes that pass inner wires through various
channels or grooves at the bottom bracket.

And I've got some derailleurs (SunTour Superbe) that feature sliding
contact between the end of the derailleur spring and the inner surface
of the mechanism. Sometimes that gets a bit gummy and needs cleaning.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 4/24/2024 12:40 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> Catfood bags? Really?

Nope, that's not what I said, yet again. You do really have problems
with reading comprehension or memory - or probably both.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 4/24/2024 1:03 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>
> No different from a bicycle derailleur, a watch mainspring or an
> engine's valve springs.
>
> Are there spring manufacturing defect examples? Sure. Are there design
> errors of material, gauge, temper? Absolutely. But by their nature
> springs below yield do not 'get soft' in any practical sense.

That reminds me: I haven't encountered a claim about bike frames "going
soft" for many, many years now. Some myths do seem to eventually die!

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 4/24/2024 2:42 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 4/24/2024 1:03 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>
>> No different from a bicycle derailleur, a watch mainspring
>> or an engine's valve springs.
>>
>> Are there spring manufacturing defect examples? Sure. Are
>> there design errors of material, gauge, temper?
>> Absolutely. But by their nature springs below yield do not
>> 'get soft' in any practical sense.
>
> That reminds me: I haven't encountered a claim about bike
> frames "going soft" for many, many years now. Some myths do
> seem to eventually die!
>
>

Simple logic should suffice. An engine valve spring cycles
about a million times over a four hour highway trip, many
multiples of the entire lifetime of any deraillleur spring.
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Tom Kunich <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Wed Apr 24 14:06:19 2024 Roger Merriman wrote:
>> Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 24 Apr 2024 09:29:24 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>> On 4/23/2024 7:36 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> ... I'm pretty sure I still have the Huret Svelto derailleur that was
>>>>>>> original equipment on my first ever ten speed - back when "ten speed"
>>>>>>> meant 5x2.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> My first road bike was that as well it was old at that point, Suntour in
>>>>>> this case, I did upgrade it to modern 10s mainly it was massively over
>>>>>> geared particularly for someone who rides around Wales from time to time!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But old derailleurs seem to last, seem to remember the shifting was about
>>>>>> the same both systems using down tube shifters, though rear was indexed for
>>>>>> the modern one, but front was left friction.
>>>>>
>>>>> I rode with that Svelto for a few years. One of my first little bike
>>>>> splurges (when we had very little extra money) was to change to SunTour
>>>>> rear derailleurs. The difference in shifting was enormous. And the
>>>>> SunTours also allowed bigger rear cogs, especially helpful for my wife.
>>>>>
>>>>> I suspect the Svelto would now shift as well as it ever did. I do think
>>>>> old derailleurs last a long time.
>>>>>
>>>> If the spring has got tired maybe be a bit slower, I did have one that for
>>>> that reason ie it shifted but really quite slowly, that I replaced it with
>>>> a new derailleur 9s being so cheap.
>>>>
>>>> But yes they seem to last and for road bikes not much technology
>>>> advancement over last few decades, different to MTB/Gravel which have
>>>> clutches and what not.
>>>>
>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>
>>> and the pulleys do wear out.
>>>
>>
>> Well yes and if one wants (I don?t) can get all sorts of oversized ones
>> that will increase efficiency by some improbable amount.
>>
>> I just change them out when they look worn.
>>
>> Roger Merriman
>>
>
>
>
> The Chinese one;s normally have sealed bearings in them and don't wear
> out very much. The pulley teeth normally screw up first.
>

I don’t think the bearing or frankly bushings have ever failed on any of
the jockey wheels I’ve seen but been worn out, ie the cogs have been worn.

Roger Merriman

On Wed, 24 Apr 2024 14:06:19 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
wrote:

>Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>> On Wed, 24 Apr 2024 09:29:24 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>> On 4/23/2024 7:36 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>> ... I'm pretty sure I still have the Huret Svelto derailleur that was
>>>>>> original equipment on my first ever ten speed - back when "ten speed"
>>>>>> meant 5x2.
>>>>>>
>>>>> My first road bike was that as well it was old at that point, Suntour in
>>>>> this case, I did upgrade it to modern 10s mainly it was massively over
>>>>> geared particularly for someone who rides around Wales from time to time!
>>>>>
>>>>> But old derailleurs seem to last, seem to remember the shifting was about
>>>>> the same both systems using down tube shifters, though rear was indexed for
>>>>> the modern one, but front was left friction.
>>>>
>>>> I rode with that Svelto for a few years. One of my first little bike
>>>> splurges (when we had very little extra money) was to change to SunTour
>>>> rear derailleurs. The difference in shifting was enormous. And the
>>>> SunTours also allowed bigger rear cogs, especially helpful for my wife.
>>>>
>>>> I suspect the Svelto would now shift as well as it ever did. I do think
>>>> old derailleurs last a long time.
>>>>
>>> If the spring has got tired maybe be a bit slower, I did have one that for
>>> that reason ie it shifted but really quite slowly, that I replaced it with
>>> a new derailleur 9s being so cheap.
>>>
>>> But yes they seem to last and for road bikes not much technology
>>> advancement over last few decades, different to MTB/Gravel which have
>>> clutches and what not.
>>>
>>> Roger Merriman
>>
>> and the pulleys do wear out.
>>
>
>Well yes and if one wants (I don’t) can get all sorts of oversized ones
>that will increase efficiency by some improbable amount.
>
>I just change them out when they look worn.
>
>Roger Merriman

I just replaced the whole derailluer

On Wed Apr 24 15:39:37 2024 Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 4/24/2024 12:40 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > Catfood bags? Really?
>
> Nope, that's not what I said, yet again. You do really have problems
> with reading comprehension or memory - or probably both.
>
> --
> - Frank Krygowski
>

It is very noticeable that you do not seem to know what you said since you couldn't repeat it.

Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> On 4/24/2024 11:02 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 4/24/2024 9:33 AM, Zen Cycle wrote:
>>> On 4/24/2024 10:19 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>> AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>> On 4/24/2024 4:29 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 4/23/2024 7:36 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>>>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> ... I'm pretty sure I still have the Huret Svelto derailleur
>>>>>>>>> that was
>>>>>>>>> original equipment on my first ever ten speed - back when "ten
>>>>>>>>> speed"
>>>>>>>>> meant 5x2.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My first road bike was that as well it was old at that point,
>>>>>>>> Suntour in
>>>>>>>> this case, I did upgrade it to modern 10s mainly it was massively
>>>>>>>> over
>>>>>>>> geared particularly for someone who rides around Wales from time
>>>>>>>> to time!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But old derailleurs seem to last, seem to remember the shifting
>>>>>>>> was about
>>>>>>>> the same both systems using down tube shifters, though rear was
>>>>>>>> indexed for
>>>>>>>> the modern one, but front was left friction.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I rode with that Svelto for a few years. One of my first little bike
>>>>>>> splurges (when we had very little extra money) was to change to
>>>>>>> SunTour
>>>>>>> rear derailleurs. The difference in shifting was enormous. And the
>>>>>>> SunTours also allowed bigger rear cogs, especially helpful for my
>>>>>>> wife.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I suspect the Svelto would now shift as well as it ever did. I do
>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>> old derailleurs last a long time.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> If the spring has got tired maybe be a bit slower, I did have one
>>>>>> that for
>>>>>> that reason ie it shifted but really quite slowly, that I replaced
>>>>>> it with
>>>>>> a new derailleur 9s being so cheap.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But yes they seem to last and for road bikes not much technology
>>>>>> advancement over last few decades, different to MTB/Gravel which have
>>>>>> clutches and what not.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> In theory, calculating spring degradation over cycles is
>>>>> extremely complex but in practice, within a human lifetime,
>>>>> derailleur springs do not noticeably degrade*.
>>>>>
>>>>> Pivots can become encrusted, rusty, worn, bent and broken
>>>>> such that the spring can no longer move them as smartly but
>>>>> that's not a change in the spring itself.
>>>>>
>>>>> *else my vintage automatic Swiss watches would have died
>>>>> long ago after many millions of cycles. The 1960 Rado on my
>>>>> wrist today keeps perfect time.
>>>>
>>>> The rear mech 9s Deore on the old MTB did become slow, was perfectly in
>>>> tune etc just slow to respond it had though done 10 years climbing the
>>>> Welsh hills and what not before retirement to plodding across West
>>>> London.
>>>>
>>>> Certainly a new mech even of a lower grade seemed to bring the shifting
>>>> back to normal.
>>>>
>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>
>>>
>>> I'm thinking that isn't the spring as much as it is the pivots
>>
>> Exactly. Springs do not 'wear out' or 'go soft' when used within
>> designed load/range limits to any measurable degree.
>
> I agree. And I'll note that I suspect any slowness (falsely) attributed
> to spring weakening would occur on an upshift, to a smaller cog. That's
> because the cable pulls it in the other (downshift) direction. If a
> spring did weaken, downshifting would require less lever force. Probably
> not detectable, though.
>
> Besides derailleur pivots, other "slow shift" problems could come from
> cable drag, especially on bikes that pass inner wires through various
> channels or grooves at the bottom bracket.

It is an old MTB no cables anywhere near the bottom bracket as well mud,
and from memory it had new cables, and the rear mech had been cleaned and
inspected the spring was a throwaway comment said to me some 10 years ago,
ie seems to be slow shifting.

It did eventually annoy me enough to get a replacement. Ie swapping out the
old for new mech with same cables etc it was back to normal shifts.
>
> And I've got some derailleurs (SunTour Superbe) that feature sliding
> contact between the end of the derailleur spring and the inner surface
> of the mechanism. Sometimes that gets a bit gummy and needs cleaning.
>
It would have been cleaned though probably not taken to bits though who
knows it’s quite some time ago.

Roger Merriman

Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Apr 2024 14:06:19 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 24 Apr 2024 09:29:24 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>> On 4/23/2024 7:36 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> ... I'm pretty sure I still have the Huret Svelto derailleur that was
>>>>>>> original equipment on my first ever ten speed - back when "ten speed"
>>>>>>> meant 5x2.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> My first road bike was that as well it was old at that point, Suntour in
>>>>>> this case, I did upgrade it to modern 10s mainly it was massively over
>>>>>> geared particularly for someone who rides around Wales from time to time!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But old derailleurs seem to last, seem to remember the shifting was about
>>>>>> the same both systems using down tube shifters, though rear was indexed for
>>>>>> the modern one, but front was left friction.
>>>>>
>>>>> I rode with that Svelto for a few years. One of my first little bike
>>>>> splurges (when we had very little extra money) was to change to SunTour
>>>>> rear derailleurs. The difference in shifting was enormous. And the
>>>>> SunTours also allowed bigger rear cogs, especially helpful for my wife.
>>>>>
>>>>> I suspect the Svelto would now shift as well as it ever did. I do think
>>>>> old derailleurs last a long time.
>>>>>
>>>> If the spring has got tired maybe be a bit slower, I did have one that for
>>>> that reason ie it shifted but really quite slowly, that I replaced it with
>>>> a new derailleur 9s being so cheap.
>>>>
>>>> But yes they seem to last and for road bikes not much technology
>>>> advancement over last few decades, different to MTB/Gravel which have
>>>> clutches and what not.
>>>>
>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>
>>> and the pulleys do wear out.
>>>
>>
>> Well yes and if one wants (I don’t) can get all sorts of oversized ones
>> that will increase efficiency by some improbable amount.
>>
>> I just change them out when they look worn.
>>
>> Roger Merriman
>
> I just replaced the whole derailluer
>
But that’s a fairly easy job just to replace them? Few minutes cup of tea
and it’s done.

Roger Merriman

On Wed, 24 Apr 2024 22:04:33 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
wrote:

>Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>> On Wed, 24 Apr 2024 14:06:19 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 24 Apr 2024 09:29:24 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>> On 4/23/2024 7:36 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> ... I'm pretty sure I still have the Huret Svelto derailleur that was
>>>>>>>> original equipment on my first ever ten speed - back when "ten speed"
>>>>>>>> meant 5x2.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My first road bike was that as well it was old at that point, Suntour in
>>>>>>> this case, I did upgrade it to modern 10s mainly it was massively over
>>>>>>> geared particularly for someone who rides around Wales from time to time!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But old derailleurs seem to last, seem to remember the shifting was about
>>>>>>> the same both systems using down tube shifters, though rear was indexed for
>>>>>>> the modern one, but front was left friction.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I rode with that Svelto for a few years. One of my first little bike
>>>>>> splurges (when we had very little extra money) was to change to SunTour
>>>>>> rear derailleurs. The difference in shifting was enormous. And the
>>>>>> SunTours also allowed bigger rear cogs, especially helpful for my wife.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I suspect the Svelto would now shift as well as it ever did. I do think
>>>>>> old derailleurs last a long time.
>>>>>>
>>>>> If the spring has got tired maybe be a bit slower, I did have one that for
>>>>> that reason ie it shifted but really quite slowly, that I replaced it with
>>>>> a new derailleur 9s being so cheap.
>>>>>
>>>>> But yes they seem to last and for road bikes not much technology
>>>>> advancement over last few decades, different to MTB/Gravel which have
>>>>> clutches and what not.
>>>>>
>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>
>>>> and the pulleys do wear out.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Well yes and if one wants (I don?t) can get all sorts of oversized ones
>>> that will increase efficiency by some improbable amount.
>>>
>>> I just change them out when they look worn.
>>>
>>> Roger Merriman
>>
>> I just replaced the whole derailluer
>>
>But that’s a fairly easy job just to replace them? Few minutes cup of tea
>and it’s done.
>
>Roger Merriman

It was 13 years old and had over 35000 miles. I figure it had earned
its retirement. Besides, now I have a spare.

On 4/24/2024 5:47 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Wed Apr 24 15:39:37 2024 Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 4/24/2024 12:40 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> Catfood bags? Really?
>>
>> Nope, that's not what I said, yet again. You do really have problems
>> with reading comprehension or memory - or probably both.
>>
>
> It is very noticeable that you do not seem to know what you said since you couldn't repeat it.

Wow! Have you really lost the ability to search a few posts back in a
thread?

Since you seem to have trouble with that, here's a copy of what I
originally said:

----------------------------

Tom, you've frequently talked about misplaced parts, tools, etc. Here's
a serious tip.

You have cats, right? Buy the cat litter that comes in big cardboard boxes.

When empty, cut the box down so it fits on a shelf. Label the box
"Shifters." Label the next box "Derailleurs." Label a third box
"Brakes." Label a fourth box "Pedals." Do as many boxes as necessary.

Develop the habit of putting the components into the proper box, and
nowhere else. If necessary, label their details with tape.

Use the same philosophy for workshop tools. A place for everything, and
everything in its place.

-------------------------------

If you want to use plastic bins, divided drawers or whatever, do so.
When we had a cat, we went through boxes of litter. I decided to put
those boxes to use.

But using _any_ marked containers will give better results than whatever
you're doing now - which seems to be tossing bike components into random
locations.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 4/24/2024 5:56 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>> And I've got some derailleurs (SunTour Superbe) that feature sliding
>> contact between the end of the derailleur spring and the inner surface
>> of the mechanism. Sometimes that gets a bit gummy and needs cleaning.
>>
> It would have been cleaned though probably not taken to bits though who
> knows it’s quite some time ago.

I've completely disassembled ("taken to bits") only one derailleur, an
ancient Campy that belonged to a friend. I doubt you need to do that to
free up the motion of pivots, springs, etc.

I think the main point is a weak spring is very, very unlikely to be the
source of your problem. Look elsewhere.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 4/24/2024 5:00 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>
> I don’t think the bearing or frankly bushings have ever failed on any of
> the jockey wheels I’ve seen but been worn out, ie the cogs have been worn.

I've had a jockey wheel begin squealing after a particularly muddy tour.
That's not a permanent failure, of course.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> On 4/24/2024 5:56 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> And I've got some derailleurs (SunTour Superbe) that feature sliding
>>> contact between the end of the derailleur spring and the inner surface
>>> of the mechanism. Sometimes that gets a bit gummy and needs cleaning.
>>>
>> It would have been cleaned though probably not taken to bits though who
>> knows it’s quite some time ago.
>
> I've completely disassembled ("taken to bits") only one derailleur, an
> ancient Campy that belonged to a friend. I doubt you need to do that to
> free up the motion of pivots, springs, etc.
>
> I think the main point is a weak spring is very, very unlikely to be the
> source of your problem. Look elsewhere.
>
Can’t it’s long gone! Probably around 2014 shortly after my brain injury
and its replacement mech is working fine, though probably one with a clutch
would be more appropriate. But meh it works.

Roger Merriman

On 4/24/2024 11:26 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 4/24/2024 5:47 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> On Wed Apr 24 15:39:37 2024 Frank Krygowski  wrote:
>>> On 4/24/2024 12:40 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>   Catfood bags? Really?
>>>
>>> Nope, that's not what I said, yet again. You do really have problems
>>> with reading comprehension or memory - or probably both.
>>>
>>
>> It is very noticeable that you do not seem to know what you said since
>> you couldn't repeat it.
>
> Wow! Have you really lost the ability to search a few posts back in a
> thread?
>
> Since you seem to have trouble with that, here's a copy of what I
> originally said:
>
> ----------------------------
>
> Tom, you've frequently talked about misplaced parts, tools, etc. Here's
> a serious tip.
>
> You have cats, right? Buy the cat litter that comes in big cardboard boxes.
>
> When empty, cut the box down so it fits on a shelf. Label the box
> "Shifters."  Label the next box "Derailleurs." Label a third box
> "Brakes." Label a fourth box "Pedals." Do as many boxes as necessary.
>
> Develop the habit of putting the components into the proper box, and
> nowhere else. If necessary, label their details with tape.
>
> Use the same philosophy for workshop tools. A place for everything, and
> everything in its place.
>
> -------------------------------
>
> If you want to use plastic bins, divided drawers or whatever, do so.
> When we had a cat, we went through boxes of litter. I decided to put
> those boxes to use.
>
> But using _any_ marked containers will give better results than whatever
> you're doing now - which seems to be tossing bike components into random
> locations.
>

In tommy's case, he could simply use cut-down booze boxes. He strikes me
as a gin drunk. I'm sure he's familiar with his local Safeway.

https://www.safeway.com/shop/product-details.189030968.html

They likely have left over empty cases they can give him, if he doesn't
have a stash of empty liquor cases to begin with.

On 4/24/2024 10:31 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 4/24/2024 5:00 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>
>> I don’t think the bearing or frankly bushings have ever
>> failed on any of
>> the jockey wheels I’ve seen but  been worn out, ie the
>> cogs have been worn.
>
> I've had a jockey wheel begin squealing after a particularly
> muddy tour. That's not a permanent failure, of course.
>

Right. When dry/dirty the sleeve gets noisy and on
disasssembly will show a distinctive bright red rust (they
get hot!). Ceramic pulleys don't corrode but they do make a
piercing banshee scream when run dry.
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Wed Apr 24 23:26:44 2024 Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 4/24/2024 5:47 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Wed Apr 24 15:39:37 2024 Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >> On 4/24/2024 12:40 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >>> Catfood bags? Really?
> >>
> >> Nope, that's not what I said, yet again. You do really have problems
> >> with reading comprehension or memory - or probably both.
> >>
> >
> > It is very noticeable that you do not seem to know what you said since you couldn't repeat it.
>
> Wow! Have you really lost the ability to search a few posts back in a
> thread?
>
> Since you seem to have trouble with that, here's a copy of what I
> originally said:
>
> ----------------------------
>
> Tom, you've frequently talked about misplaced parts, tools, etc. Here's
> a serious tip.
>
> You have cats, right? Buy the cat litter that comes in big cardboard boxes.
>
> When empty, cut the box down so it fits on a shelf. Label the box
> "Shifters." Label the next box "Derailleurs." Label a third box
> "Brakes." Label a fourth box "Pedals." Do as many boxes as necessary.
>
> Develop the habit of putting the components into the proper box, and
> nowhere else. If necessary, label their details with tape.
>
> Use the same philosophy for workshop tools. A place for everything, and
> everything in its place.
>
> -------------------------------
>
> If you want to use plastic bins, divided drawers or whatever, do so.
> When we had a cat, we went through boxes of litter. I decided to put
> those boxes to use.
>
> But using _any_ marked containers will give better results than whatever
> you're doing now - which seems to be tossing bike components into random
> locations.
>
>
> --
> - Frank Krygowski
>

Since you obviously don't have cats, you seem unaware that cat liter comes in bags, There is one type of clumping liter that comes in boxes but people usually don't use that type.

So tell me again about putting my parts in the "boxes" that cat litter comes in. And tell me perhaps about the effect of the fine powder remaining in the box if you use the clumping litter? Or perhaps you believe that you can wash the cardboard boxes out?

I find it amazing that you can pretend to think that you're in some manner practical when you cannot for one second even think about the problem.